Thanks man!! But unlike you there are ppl who still wont agree!!Quote:
Originally posted by RGX@4 March 2004 - 17:13
Definatly some food for thought, thanks unreal, I love theories like this :)
;)
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Thanks man!! But unlike you there are ppl who still wont agree!!Quote:
Originally posted by RGX@4 March 2004 - 17:13
Definatly some food for thought, thanks unreal, I love theories like this :)
;)
What i don't like is the way they left the movies i mean they had 3 movies and at the end machines still hold all the power but there not going to use it. I personally liked the bit when they saw the real sky and i wanted them to be let out of there dirty cave in the ground (bunch of squatters) :lol: . Also could you explain the oracles part in the neo and Asmith fight. Also what was the point of that little girl. Also what was neo can u explain to me the architect scene in the second film. thanks.
Your first and second question are answered in the explanation i posted. You will have to go thru the trouble of reading it. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@4 March 2004 - 20:11
What i don't like is the way they left the movies i mean they had 3 movies and at the end machines still hold all the power but there not going to use it. I personally liked the bit when they saw the real sky and i wanted them to be let out of there dirty cave in the ground (bunch of squatters) :lol: . Also could you explain the oracles part in the neo and Asmith fight. Also what was the point of that little girl. Also what was neo can u explain to me the architect scene in the second film. thanks.
This will answer your question abt the architect and the neo conversation !! B)Quote:
Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of The One... The function of The One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program."
Translated, the Architect is explaining that Neo was designed to be a religious figure to the freed humans, thus causing them to put their faith (hope) in Neo and to rally around him ("...sum of a remainder..."). This helps to ensure that the freed humans are focused on Neo instead of war, and to keep them all together in one place, Zion (which was built by the machines for this purpose also). Neo is a form of control in the real world.
And just to make sure that Neo carries out his part of their plan, the machines programmed him with "... a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the [humans]." This, along with his enhanced abilities and the "guidance" of the Oracle, keeps him on the intended course.
The Architect also states that "The function of The One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program." This simply means that The One program in Neo's mind is the most important (prime) program in the Matrix, and that now that his mission (purpose) is complete, he must return to the source for deletion (all machines must have a purpose). The phrase "... temporary dissemination..." means that the The One program will be used again in the next version of the Matrix. This is also why Neo's choice of the left door will destroy the Matrix, as there can be only one The One in the Matrix at any time. By staying in the Matrix Neo is preventing it from being reloaded, as a reload will do nothing without another The One for the next version. (In programming terms he is the highest priority task, and he will not release the Matrix program's main semaphore.)
MY Mistake.............Edited !!
You seem to have left out the fact that:Quote:
Originally posted by unreal_dude@4 March 2004 - 11:26
one more piece of evidence to supplement the point that machines can see only machines is that when Thomas Anderson is freed there is a sentinel nearby ......
if the sentinel cud see like Mr. busyman points out it cud have easily killed Thomas Anderson.....
i think that will be enuf to supplement the fact that machines can only see machines !!
B)
That machine grabbed him around the neck and then had him flushed.
The sentinels chased Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus after the Neb was destroyed.
I can't remember which movie, maybe it was in Animatrix, but the sentinels jabbed humans through and through to kill them.
------
The sentinels were made to kill humans, not just hovercrafts.
Good lord your head is so far up the Matrix your common sense about the movie is gone.
Dude plz man plz read the explanation i posted ..........so u might figure out why the machines could see neo.Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@4 March 2004 - 23:54
You seem to have left out the fact that:
That machine grabbed him around the neck and then had him flushed.
The sentinels chased Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus after the Neb was destroyed.
I can't remember which movie, maybe it was in Animatrix, but the sentinels jabbed humans through and through to kill them.
------
The sentinels were made to kill humans, not just hovercrafts.
Good lord your head is so far up the Matrix your common sense about the movie is gone.
So that might probably answer y .............i)That machine grabbed him around the neck and then had him flushed.Quote:
Neo is a machine, kinda. He is a human with enhanced genetics, enhanced implants, and a machine programmed mind (probably based on a "The One" template program). That's why, at the end of Revolutions, when his body is being taken away, he is shown as an orange glow. The orange glow is how the machines see each other, and therefore how they see Neo. It is also how Neo sees Smith inside Bane... he is seeing the machine program of Smith inside Bane's mind, and therefore it is an orange glow in the shape of the Smith.
But the orange glow isn't the only reason to believe Neo is a machine. Throughout the trilogy other hints are given, such as: "His neural kinetics are way above normal.", "He's a machine.", "Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication...", etc.
ii)The sentinels chased Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus after the Neb was destroyed.
Plus one more thing ......... if u say that i m such a big fan of the matrix trilogy ............then u too probably are cuz otherwise u wudnt have bothered 2 post abt it.
Only thing is
Quote:
I m also of the opinion that most ppl dint like the 2 and 3rd part cuz they simply perceived matrix as another action movie !!
busy man i gave off the wrong impression with my asnwer. i meant that the humans had previously had a strong defence. strong enough to hold off the mechs from entering the human populated zone of zion where all the controls were. but once the second wave of them had arrived the humans were only then about to be destroyed. so i agree their defence was poor but it still lasted for that first wave. which means that the machines could never staright up enter zion and destroy all the main systems and effectivly shut down the humans' power. they had to bore through their defence and straight down to the bottom. which was not easy btw.
Bump......... :)
:huh: Just to make things a bit simple i m posting the Matrix revolutions and Matrix Reloaded transcript for all u fans !!
Read on then .........
Matrix Revolutions
Matrix Reloaded
B)
And here is Neo's little chat with the Architect in M2. This was a bit difficult 2 digest at first .......
So here goes !!
:: Transcript ::
The Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
The Architect: I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
The Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
Neo: You haven't answered my question.
The Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.
The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"
The Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.
Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bullshit."
Neo: here are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.
The Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! F*ck you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!"
Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.
The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architect's room
The Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
The Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.
The Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bullshit.
The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bullshit!"
The Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.
The Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo: You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.
The Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.
The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors
The Architect: It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.
Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo's dream appear on the monitors
Neo: Trinity.
The Architect: Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
Neo: No!
The Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.
Neo walks to the door on his left
The Architect: Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.
The Architect: We won't
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The END
:)
When watching the movie in the cinema I just about got a grip of the speech, and only just kept up but in writing it goes to many more levels, saved on my desktop, thanks and great job at maintaining your thread.
Nice to see someone post new information rather than multiple bumps. :)
Thanks unreal dude. That matrix explanation posted by u made for great reading.
I have always loved the matrix movies and ur explanation helped to clear some of my own questions!!!
Let those who keep whining about the sequels not being as great as the original movie keep doing it!!!
Long Live THE MATRIX TRILOGY!!
it's easy to dismiss criticism as whining, just because you don't agree with it. it's not a very healthy way of dealing with people, you know.Quote:
Originally posted by vish_cometrue@8 March 2004 - 23:36
Let those who keep whining about the sequels not being as great as the original movie keep doing it!!!
"well, i don't like ______, because of __________."
"whiner!"
go around calling everybody a whiner in person just for disagreeing with you, and yer liable to get the taste slapped out of yer mouth.
it's easy to dismiss criticism as whining, just because you don't agree with it. it's not a very healthy way of dealing with people, you know.Quote:
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+9 March 2004 - 07:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 9 March 2004 - 07:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vish_cometrue@8 March 2004 - 23:36
Let those who keep whining about the sequels not being as great as the original movie keep doing it!!!
"well, i don't like ______, because of __________."
"whiner!"
go around calling everybody a whiner in person just for disagreeing with you, and yer liable to get the taste slapped out of yer mouth. [/b][/quote]
Isn't it interesting that us "whiners" never critisized those who like the movie. We just critisized the MOVIE.
You know you are true fanboy when..............
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I "understood" the Matrix trilogy when I first saw it and uh........still didn't like it (except the first one).
Again the fight scenes were great (except the pointless last one between Smith and Neo) but the movie was a silver wrapping with shit inside.
The first Matrix had some mystery behind it. When they explained it, it fucked it up.
This is not some made up bullshit to be on a bandwagon. What the hell for?
There are obviously many others on this "bandwagon" also.
Why?
THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE MOVIE.
It seems the only posts allowed on here were ones kissing the ass of either the thread starter, the actual "explanation" post, the Matrix Trilogy, or the Wachowski's.
Now STFU and stop critisizing someone for critisizing the movie you made....oops I'm sorry you didn't make shit.........besides a bullshit explanation.
so u wanna start all over again. Seems like your retarded brains do not seem 2 get it after all !! isn't it . Well y dont u guys stop behaving like a couples of retards !!Quote:
It seems the only posts allowed on here were ones kissing the ass of either the thread starter, the actual "explanation" post, the Matrix Trilogy, or the Wachowski's.
:lol:
it's easy to dismiss criticism as whining, just because you don't agree with it. it's not a very healthy way of dealing with people, you know.Quote:
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+9 March 2004 - 17:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 9 March 2004 - 17:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vish_cometrue@8 March 2004 - 23:36
Let those who keep whining about the sequels not being as great as the original movie keep doing it!!!
"well, i don't like ______, because of __________."
"whiner!"
go around calling everybody a whiner in person just for disagreeing with you, and yer liable to get the taste slapped out of yer mouth. [/b][/quote]
Mr Brain wotever here seems to have a major crush on princess Leia and kinda seems stuck in a time warp !! yo dude u still stuck in the 80's. Or it seems that u keep comparing every damn movie u see with the star wars (including gigli).Dude these 2 mvies are quite different frm each other(LOL how many times have i got 2 tell these retards).
Fanboyism at its peak !! "Mommy Mommy isnt Star Wars like the greatest sci-fi flick ever " LOL
Get a life man!!!
3RA1N1AC, u are a great Star Wars fan, aren't u? But sadly u r still stuck in the 70s. Don't get started on reminding every1 that Star Wars is a legendary trilogy and all that. Every1 knows Star Wars Episodes 4, 5 and 6 are great cinema. But move on.......science fiction should change with time. Anyway Star Wars was more like a 'fantasy sci-fi'. The Matrix movies are truly artistic, deeper and more thought-provoking sci-fi. Exactly the way it should be in the 21st century. Anyway we don't need concilation from a star wars lamer.
All that talk about Matrix being pointless..............atleast The Wachowskis thought of a brilliant trilogy and ended it right there. On the other hand, George Lucas continued the Star Wars series only to fill his pockets with more gold. And Episodes 1 and 2 are what u call a "shame to the original trilogy". Reloaded and Revolutions continue from where the original story left and take it to further heights.
The next time if there's nothing better u can think of atleast remember this......... criticism is different from whining and that it shows.
Hmmm
whining.
We were criticizing a movie.
You are criticizing us for not liking it.
That stinks of shit.
Agreed ;) , am on a bandwagon now?Quote:
Originally posted by vish_cometrue
And Episodes 1 and 2 are what u call a "shame to the original trilogy".
I like Star Wars but didn't like Ep. 1 and 2. Why can't I dislike and express my dislike for Reloaded and Revolutions?
Please STFU!!! :lol: :lol:
Dude plz man plz read the explanation i posted ..........so u might figure out why the machines could see neo.Quote:
Originally posted by unreal_dude+5 March 2004 - 00:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (unreal_dude @ 5 March 2004 - 00:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@4 March 2004 - 23:54
You seem to have left out the fact that:
That machine grabbed him around the neck and then had him flushed.
The sentinels chased Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus after the Neb was destroyed.
I can't remember which movie, maybe it was in Animatrix, but the sentinels jabbed humans through and through to kill them.
------
The sentinels were made to kill humans, not just hovercrafts.
Good lord your head is so far up the Matrix your common sense about the movie is gone.
So that might probably answer y .............i)That machine grabbed him around the neck and then had him flushed.Quote:
Neo is a machine, kinda. He is a human with enhanced genetics, enhanced implants, and a machine programmed mind (probably based on a "The One" template program). That's why, at the end of Revolutions, when his body is being taken away, he is shown as an orange glow. The orange glow is how the machines see each other, and therefore how they see Neo. It is also how Neo sees Smith inside Bane... he is seeing the machine program of Smith inside Bane's mind, and therefore it is an orange glow in the shape of the Smith.
But the orange glow isn't the only reason to believe Neo is a machine. Throughout the trilogy other hints are given, such as: "His neural kinetics are way above normal.", "He's a machine.", "Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication...", etc.
ii)The sentinels chased Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus after the Neb was destroyed.
Plus one more thing ......... if u say that i m such a big fan of the matrix trilogy ............then u too probably are cuz otherwise u wudnt have bothered 2 post abt it.
Only thing is
[/b][/quote]Quote:
I m also of the opinion that most ppl dint like the 2 and 3rd part cuz they simply perceived matrix as another action movie !!
I am a fan of the Matrix....the original. Just like I'm a fan of of the original Star Wars Trilogy.
The reason I say that some of that explanation doesn't make sense is because:
Your "orange glow" rationale doesn't hold water. There NOTHING in the film that suggests that squids couldn't see humans. When the machine flushed Neo that was clear common sense. IT WAS AUTOMATED FOR ANYONE THAT WAKES UP. DUH :blink: .
They didn't flush him because they saw a machine :blink: . How did the others such as Morpheus get rescued? I'm sure when Morpheus rescued Neo after he awoke that rescued countless others the same way. Were they all machines? :lol: :lol:
I know you are fan of the movie and I won't knock that but I very easily shoot holes through all these explanations with common sense. The Wachowski's would probably look at these explanations with a :blink: .
One of the reasons this movie suffered is the same as Ep 1. Ep. 1 was encumbered with mumbo jumbo about the Trade Federation and votes of no confidence and blah, blah, blah. This does not make for good storytelling. The same goes for the Matrix. When I sat throught the Architect scene, I and almost the whole movie theater were <_< <_< <_< <_< . I actually yelled STFU!!!!
Good storytelling would have explained it through the movie as it progresses, not with a long drawn out bullshit explanation. There wasn't even any dramatic music; it wasn't a very dramatic scene. Where was the wow factor?
The movie had great fights, CGI, but watch a movie called Frailty. Hardly any special effects (or HYPE BTW) but good storytelling and easily a movie that was more memorable. ;)
I have to agree that there is little reason why the sentinels would be unable to see humans, and little evidence for this in the trilogies. Besides points at which the machines chased people (which have already been mentioned), sentinels launched an attack on Zee and Charra when they were fighting against the drilling machines and succeed in killing Charra (if I remember correctly). Also, if I remember correctly sentinels killed numerous crew members in 'The Final Flight of the Osiris'.
It should also be noted that many of these people would not have simply been identifiable due to the machiens they were carrying. If the sentinels can detect machines with which they can have no affiliation how would they do this...most likely visible light, thermal imaging, or something involving magnetism associated with electrical currents. Each of these three methods could also be used to detect humans anyway.
The 'orange glow' vision I believe is not merely a way of seeing machines in general but intelligent machines and systems associated purely with the machines governed by Deus Ex Machina (essentially anything with some connection to the source). Note that when Neo was fighting Bane/Smith he could see Bane/Smith due to their connection through the source, but that he did not see the numerous electrical and mechanical systems which lined many walls of the ship and that would have continued within the walls of the ship.
I can however possibly make some other suggestions as to why they were not attacked at this point. Firstly, the machines may have been concentrating their efforts (and perhaps CPU power) on breaking through the obstructions left by the humans and finishing off any last resistance rather than killing two people who presented little or no threat to them (as I'm sure individual sentinels appear to be of little value to the machines and at various points that APU was out of ammo, jammed, damaged or under the control of a newbie who didn't have a clue). There is of course the possibility (which I suspect is true in this case) of artistic license for a particular purpose, though I would certainly not simply write it off as a 'bullshit scene'. I certainly would not begrudge the brothers for artistic licence and think that this triology has kept it to a bare minimum (as most things are explainable) whilst still being great.
I am a major fan of the trilogy and agree that the vast majority of things within the trilogy can be explained with some thought, and it is the sheer depth and complexity of the trilogy, connections running throughout it, messages, clever references to religion and internet culture, as well as opportunities for interpretation and of course the fantastic action sequences which have made this trilogy so successful. B)
Great guide btw unreal_dude :D . I found myself agreeing with nearly everything said within it as I have come to the same conclusions. There are a few exceptions to this however.
Firstly I'm rather unsure of the whole upgrade cookie idea. I also think, as has already been suggested in this topic, that the destruction of Smith was more due to Neo providing a very direct connection to the system through which Smith's program could be channelled to return it to the source as it was no longer required than because of a burst of energy from the machines.
Great thread everyone, keep up the discussion. :)
I did enjoy The Matrix for some of the same reasons: references to internet culture and the fight scenes. The next two movies pretty much muddied that to an extent.Quote:
Originally posted by [)arkredemption@9 March 2004 - 14:26
I have to agree that there is little reason why the sentinels would be unable to see humans, and little evidence for this in the trilogies. Besides points at which the machines chased people (which have already been mentioned), sentinels launched an attack on Zee and Charra when they were fighting against the drilling machines and succeed in killing Charra (if I remember correctly). Also, if I remember correctly sentinels killed numerous crew members in 'The Final Flight of the Osiris'.
It should also be noted that many of these people would not have simply been identifiable due to the machiens they were carrying. If the sentinels can detect machines with which they can have no affiliation how would they do this...most likely visible light, thermal imaging, or something involving magnetism associated with electrical currents. Each of these three methods could also be used to detect humans anyway.
The 'orange glow' vision I believe is not merely a way of seeing machines in general but intelligent machines and systems associated purely with the machines governed by Deus Ex Machina (essentially anything with some connection to the source). Note that when Neo was fighting Bane/Smith he could see Bane/Smith due to their connection through the source, but that he did not see the numerous electrical and mechanical systems which lined many walls of the ship and that would have continued within the walls of the ship.
I can however possibly make some other suggestions as to why they were not attacked at this point. Firstly, the machines may have been concentrating their efforts (and perhaps CPU power) on breaking through the obstructions left by the humans and finishing off any last resistance rather than killing two people who presented little or no threat to them (as I'm sure individual sentinels appear to be of little value to the machines and at various points that APU was out of ammo, jammed, damaged or under the control of a newbie who didn't have a clue). There is of course the possibility (which I suspect is true in this case) of artistic license for a particular purpose, though I would certainly not simply write it off as a 'bullshit scene'. I certainly would not begrudge the brothers for artistic licence and think that this triology has kept it to a bare minimum (as most things are explainable) whilst still being great.
I am a major fan of the trilogy and agree that the vast majority of things within the trilogy can be explained with some thought, and it is the sheer depth and complexity of the trilogy, connections running throughout it, messages, clever references to religion and internet culture, as well as opportunities for interpretation and of course the fantastic action sequences which have made this trilogy so successful. B)
Great guide btw unreal_dude :D . I found myself agreeing with nearly everything said within it as I have come to the same conclusions. There are a few exceptions to this however.
Firstly I'm rather unsure of the whole upgrade cookie idea. I also think, as has already been suggested in this topic, that the destruction of Smith was more due to Neo providing a very direct connection to the system through which Smith's program could be channelled to return it to the source as it was no longer required than because of a burst of energy from the machines.
Great thread everyone, keep up the discussion. :)
To make the movie more thought provoking it seems the filmmakers made it somewhat nonsensical.
I find myself watching the fight scenes in Reloaded and then turning it off. Movies like Star Wars are just the opposite. I'm pretty interested through and through and that makes them great. The story is engrossing, the action is fantastic and with a decent blend of "fun".
In the dock scene, it could be said that the General was not a threat but the sentinels were still flying in a bullshit pattern. With the purpose of wiping out the humans and digging underground, this made no sense. It had to be artistic license.
Great post btw.
actually, no. star wars isn't my favorite sci-fi. i'd put blade runner, total recall, videodrome, brazil, a clockwork orange, alien, and quite a few others higher up on my list of favorites just because they mean more to me personally. i thought it would be pretentious to try to browbeat fanz with a list of superior films, just to show off, so i didn't.Quote:
Originally posted by vish_cometrue@9 March 2004 - 05:25
But move on.......science fiction should change with time. Anyway Star Wars was more like a 'fantasy sci-fi'. The Matrix movies are truly artistic, deeper and more thought-provoking sci-fi. Exactly the way it should be in the 21st century. Anyway we don't need concilation from a star wars lamer.
it isn't my fault that the matrix trilogy is a shoddy pastiche of a lot of other movies, including some of the ones i listed (them, and TRON), the elements don't hang well together, and the only new twist they added was... trenchcoats? no, wait, deckard wore a trenchcoat in blade runner. "omg, neo is the messiah. that is so deep." throw him on the junk pile with all the other sci-fi messiahs from the past century... it's an old-fashioned sci-fi gimmick, and he's a one-dimensional character. it isn't about old vs new, 'cause there's nothing new to speak of in the matrix trilogy aside from the special effects. philip k dick's major writing was done in the 50s & 60s, the better sci-fi movies of the past twenty years have either adapted from him directly or borrowed heavily... and the rest comes from traditional myths, religion, and groundwork laid by cliffhanger serials, swashbucklers, cowboy movies, etc. all sci-fi is derivative, but what makes the matrix trilogy so special is that it cribs such an extensive list of notes and references, and doesn't put them to use. it promises so much in the way of plot, and delivers so little. the dialogue is just there to add a sense of importance and intellectual weight to the procession, and to kill time between fights... that's not just a problem with the matrix trilogy, it's a problem with hollywood in the 21st century. hollywood is continually losing its ability to tell a coherent story-- the matrix trilogy just happens to be the main offender in the style-over-substance category.
go ahead, accuse me or anyone else who disagrees with you, of being a whiner. i guess you've got the freedom to do so. but don't be surprised when people stoop to your level and point out that you're just in denial and you're lashing out with personal insults because you feel so rabidly protective of the overhyped little-engine-that-couldn't.
know what's a good sci-fi movie? that bill murray one... groundhog day. seriously.
come on man this is getting kinda childish , everybody knows that you hate the matrix , that you think its a crappy movie , which i personally think is a really great movie , but come on let us be , dont you think its already a bit to much , why dont you go look for people who like elves , hobbits , vampires , terminators , and start dissing their movie preferences , give us a break.
disclaimer - i didnt post this to start a war , think of it what you want , and reply
what you want.
previous to being personally insulted, i posted twice in this thread. the first one was a joke post, boiling the plot down to "it's a trap!" the second one suggested to vish_cometrue that calling people whiners is beyond the limits of friendly discussion. those added up to little more than a few sentences, out of several pages.Quote:
Originally posted by seiya_33@9 March 2004 - 16:51
come on man this is getting kinda childish , everybody knows that you hate the matrix , that you think its a crappy movie , which i personally think is a really great movie , but come on let us be , dont you think its already a bit to much , why dont you go look for people who like elves , hobbits , vampires , terminators , and start dissing their movie preferences , give us a break.
my third post was in response to people suggesting i'm a braindead fanboy with no sense of what good sci-fi is, who jerks off to pictures of princess leia and can't understand the completely original, barnstorming genius that is the wachowski brothers who are only in it for the luv of Art with a capital A, and not for $$$money$$$ with dollar signs around it. *ahem* action figures *ahem* enter the matrix *ahem* direct-to-home-video releases like revisited and animatrix *ahem* bling bling.
unreal_dude and vish_cometrue invited a debate by insulting me. otherwise, i've kept my criticism over at busyman's thread, which was intended for criticism. :lol:
i really dont think my last post insulted you , it wasnt my intention , but just ignore the crap you get from the matrix buffs , and as for that thread i think i posted once in it but now i stay away from it .
Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!Quote:
unreal_dude and vish_cometrue invited a debate by insulting me. otherwise, i've kept my criticism over at busyman's thread, which was intended for criticism.
But u know wot any fan will not take such baseless things against his/her movie !!
i hope u ppl understand. It's all part of human behaviour !!
PEACE !!! :lol:
Nice post [)arkredemption. Thanks for the encouragement !!!Quote:
Originally posted by [)arkredemption@9 March 2004 - 23:56
I have to agree that there is little reason why the sentinels would be unable to see humans, and little evidence for this in the trilogies. Besides points at which the machines chased people (which have already been mentioned), sentinels launched an attack on Zee and Charra when they were fighting against the drilling machines and succeed in killing Charra (if I remember correctly). Also, if I remember correctly sentinels killed numerous crew members in 'The Final Flight of the Osiris'.
It should also be noted that many of these people would not have simply been identifiable due to the machiens they were carrying. If the sentinels can detect machines with which they can have no affiliation how would they do this...most likely visible light, thermal imaging, or something involving magnetism associated with electrical currents. Each of these three methods could also be used to detect humans anyway.
The 'orange glow' vision I believe is not merely a way of seeing machines in general but intelligent machines and systems associated purely with the machines governed by Deus Ex Machina (essentially anything with some connection to the source). Note that when Neo was fighting Bane/Smith he could see Bane/Smith due to their connection through the source, but that he did not see the numerous electrical and mechanical systems which lined many walls of the ship and that would have continued within the walls of the ship.
I can however possibly make some other suggestions as to why they were not attacked at this point. Firstly, the machines may have been concentrating their efforts (and perhaps CPU power) on breaking through the obstructions left by the humans and finishing off any last resistance rather than killing two people who presented little or no threat to them (as I'm sure individual sentinels appear to be of little value to the machines and at various points that APU was out of ammo, jammed, damaged or under the control of a newbie who didn't have a clue). There is of course the possibility (which I suspect is true in this case) of artistic license for a particular purpose, though I would certainly not simply write it off as a 'bullshit scene'. I certainly would not begrudge the brothers for artistic licence and think that this triology has kept it to a bare minimum (as most things are explainable) whilst still being great.
I am a major fan of the trilogy and agree that the vast majority of things within the trilogy can be explained with some thought, and it is the sheer depth and complexity of the trilogy, connections running throughout it, messages, clever references to religion and internet culture, as well as opportunities for interpretation and of course the fantastic action sequences which have made this trilogy so successful. B)
Great guide btw unreal_dude :D . I found myself agreeing with nearly everything said within it as I have come to the same conclusions. There are a few exceptions to this however.
Firstly I'm rather unsure of the whole upgrade cookie idea. I also think, as has already been suggested in this topic, that the destruction of Smith was more due to Neo providing a very direct connection to the system through which Smith's program could be channelled to return it to the source as it was no longer required than because of a burst of energy from the machines.
Great thread everyone, keep up the discussion. :)
B)
http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170Quote:
Originally posted by unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!
let's see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80's." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i'd say that whole post is pretty insulting. it's not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.
and it isn't your movie. it's the wachowski bros' and warner bros' movie. you're just some guy who watched it.
http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170Quote:
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+10 March 2004 - 01:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 10 March 2004 - 01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!
let's see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80's." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i'd say that whole post is pretty insulting. it's not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.
and it isn't your movie. it's the wachowski bros' and warner bros' movie. you're just some guy who watched it. [/b][/quote]
Preach. :ph34r:
http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170Quote:
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+10 March 2004 - 01:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 10 March 2004 - 01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!
let's see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80's." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i'd say that whole post is pretty insulting. it's not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.
and it isn't your movie. it's the wachowski bros' and warner bros' movie. you're just some guy who watched it. [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Stop it!!! You are making unreal's stock in Warner go down!!! :lol: :lol: <_<
My intention was not to insult anyone. If anyone takes my statements to be an insult, I can't help it!!! But I can't help it either when people keep insulting The Matrix movies.
By the way I'm also tired of people claiming that they are a big fan of the first movie. Being a fan of the Matrix itself means that being a fan of the trilogy. When u read an intersting book, u don't say I liked only the first few pages. U tend to move on with the story. The first movie was incomplete and didn't have a conclusion. It's necessary to comprehend and understand all three movies to complete the MATRIX EXPERIENCE.
:lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman+10 March 2004 - 10:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 10 March 2004 - 10:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC@10 March 2004 - 01:17
<!--QuoteBegin-unreal_dude
Quote:
@9 March 2004 - 20:59
Woo man !! Hold on your horse for a sec !! When did i insult you or nebdy for ne reason !! All through out the thread i have been polite 2 every1 including !!
http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showt...45&#entry916170
let's see. "retards." "get a life." "stuck in the 80's." "fanboy." "mommy mommy." etcetera etcetera. i'd say that whole post is pretty insulting. it's not that important to me, whether somebody on the internet has bad manners. but hopefully this response will help you to identify a problem that you have (making ad hominem attacks and then denying it) and do something about it.
and it isn't your movie. it's the wachowski bros' and warner bros' movie. you're just some guy who watched it.
Stop it!!! You are making unreal's stock in Warner go down!!! :lol: :lol: <_< [/b][/quote]
LOL yeah man !! Like i own half the studio !! And din't u know the wac bros pay me for posting in their favor !
:D
probably. why else would you be yelling "fanboy" at people, saying they're not allowed to have negative opinions about "your" movie, and insulting people in one thread about things they said in a different thread? matrix trilogy damage-control street-team!Quote:
Originally posted by unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 21:27
LOL yeah man !! Like i own half the studio !! And din't u know the wac bros pay me for posting in their favor !
probably. why else would you be yelling "fanboy" at people, saying they're not allowed to have negative opinions about "your" movie, and insulting people in one thread about things they said in a different thread? matrix trilogy damage-control street-team! [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+10 March 2004 - 11:02--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 10 March 2004 - 11:02)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-unreal_dude@9 March 2004 - 21:27
LOL yeah man !! Like i own half the studio !! And din't u know the wac bros pay me for posting in their favor !
Long Live the Matrix Trilogy and Long Live the Wachowski Bros..
(LOL !! now wot amount was i promised by the bros if i said this in the forum....
Ahh!! now i remember i think it was a kool 10000000000000 $$ )
:lol: :D :lol:
Nice Explanation there unreal_dude1, your explanation answered a lot of questions that have risen so far in my mind
i can't think of a better explanation of "The Matrix Triology"
Keep up the good work :)
Thanks m8...........more words of appreciation.............thanks ......vry much !!Quote:
Originally posted by marshall@10 March 2004 - 12:04
Nice Explanation there unreal_dude1, your explanation answered a lot of questions that have risen so far in my mind
i can't think of a better explanation of "The Matrix Triology"
Keep up the good work :)
:lol:
What are you dense?Quote:
Originally posted by vish_cometrue@10 March 2004 - 01:26
My intention was not to insult anyone. If anyone takes my statements to be an insult, I can't help it!!! But I can't help it either when people keep insulting The Matrix movies.
By the way I'm also tired of people claiming that they are a big fan of the first movie. Being a fan of the Matrix itself means that being a fan of the trilogy. When u read an intersting book, u don't say I liked only the first few pages. U tend to move on with the story. The first movie was incomplete and didn't have a conclusion. It's necessary to comprehend and understand all three movies to complete the MATRIX EXPERIENCE.
You can't help it?
Get a fucking grip!!!! Lighten up like unreal dude.
Plus there is large number that don't like all of any set of films.
I like Godfather 1 and 2 but not really 3
I like Terminator 1 and 2 but really 3
I like Alien ans Aliens but not really 3 and Resurrection
I like Predator but not really 2
I like Star Wars original trilogy but not really Ep 1 and 2.
You can help being an ass. Just go make some friends or do something with your life besides slapping the Wachowski's balls.
And wash the sticky off your Matrix discs!!!!
What are you dense?Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman+10 March 2004 - 13:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 10 March 2004 - 13:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-vish_cometrue@10 March 2004 - 01:26
My intention was not to insult anyone. If anyone takes my statements to be an insult, I can't help it!!! But I can't help it either when people keep insulting The Matrix movies.
By the way I'm also tired of people claiming that they are a big fan of the first movie. Being a fan of the Matrix itself means that being a fan of the trilogy. When u read an intersting book, u don't say I liked only the first few pages. U tend to move on with the story. The first movie was incomplete and didn't have a conclusion. It's necessary to comprehend and understand all three movies to complete the MATRIX EXPERIENCE.
You can't help it?
Get a fucking grip!!!! Lighten up like unreal dude.
Plus there is large number that don't like all of any set of films.
I like Godfather 1 and 2 but not really 3
I like Terminator 1 and 2 but really 3
I like Alien ans Aliens but not really 3 and Resurrection
I like Predator but not really 2
I like Star Wars original trilogy but not really Ep 1 and 2.
You can help being an ass. Just go make some friends or do something with your life besides slapping the Wachowski's balls.
And wash the sticky off your Matrix discs!!!![/b][/quote]
I think u r more in need of making friends!!! The way u behave and crib.........I know u r damn frustrated. But still try to remind urself that u r in a global forum.
By the way, the movies u mentioned like The Godfather 1 and 2, and the original Star Wars trilogy were a part of the bigger picture and like "one big picture". The Matrix trilogy is also the same way......all three Matrix movies are like "one big picture". Even practically the Wachowskis were supposed to make Reloaded and Revolutions in one film. But then they split it into 2. Thats why at the end of Reloaded, 'To be continued' was mentioned.
Obviously u won't like Terminator 3 and Star Wars Ep.1 and 2 because they were more an effort to make money rather than complete story-telling.
I think u r more in need of making friends!!! The way u behave and crib.........I know u r damn frustrated. But still try to remind urself that u r in a global forum.Quote:
Originally posted by vish_cometrue+12 March 2004 - 00:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vish_cometrue @ 12 March 2004 - 00:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@10 March 2004 - 13:03
<!--QuoteBegin-vish_cometrue
Quote:
@10 March 2004 - 01:26
My intention was not to insult anyone. If anyone takes my statements to be an insult, I can't help it!!! But I can't help it either when people keep insulting The Matrix movies.
By the way I'm also tired of people claiming that they are a big fan of the first movie. Being a fan of the Matrix itself means that being a fan of the trilogy. When u read an intersting book, u don't say I liked only the first few pages. U tend to move on with the story. The first movie was incomplete and didn't have a conclusion. It's necessary to comprehend and understand all three movies to complete the MATRIX EXPERIENCE.
What are you dense?
You can't help it?
Get a fucking grip!!!! Lighten up like unreal dude.
Plus there is large number that don't like all of any set of films.
I like Godfather 1 and 2 but not really 3
I like Terminator 1 and 2 but really 3
I like Alien ans Aliens but not really 3 and Resurrection
I like Predator but not really 2
I like Star Wars original trilogy but not really Ep 1 and 2.
You can help being an ass. Just go make some friends or do something with your life besides slapping the Wachowski's balls.
And wash the sticky off your Matrix discs!!!!
By the way, the movies u mentioned like The Godfather 1 and 2, and the original Star Wars trilogy were a part of the bigger picture and like "one big picture". The Matrix trilogy is also the same way......all three Matrix movies are like "one big picture". Even practically the Wachowskis were supposed to make Reloaded and Revolutions in one film. But then they split it into 2. Thats why at the end of Reloaded, 'To be continued' was mentioned.
Obviously u won't like Terminator 3 and Star Wars Ep.1 and 2 because they were more an effort to make money rather than complete story-telling. [/b][/quote]
So I guess I just have to like Kill Bill Vol. 2 because I liked Vol. 1. <_< <_< :lol:
Just STFU, you sound like an ignoramus.
I think you need to chill out busyman, by the way you speak i guees you are like 10 year old, only my 10 year old cousin complains this much...!!!!
I dont want to start a fight with you, but seriously have some respect, thank you... :01: :music1: