Printable View
Your unsuccessfully rationalizing inhumane morally wrong irrational actions. :PQuote:
Originally posted by fred devliegher@16 April 2004 - 18:45
^^ symptoms. Not cause.
Times of crisis are a feeding ground for religious extremism. Just look at the US right now.
EDIT : I'm not blind, there's no reason to shout.
Your Schizophrenic ? hearing things not real ?Quote:
Originally posted by fred devliegher@16 April 2004 - 18:45
EDIT : I'm not blind, there's no reason to shout.
Well that explains your delusions :helpsmile:
Again, no reason to shout.
I am seeking the root cause to deal with the problem in the fastest, most efficient way possible. Do I condone the cited examples of rampant extremism as much as you do ? Of course. Will they go away simply by applying blind force ? I guess the answer is beginning to form in a certain Gulf country - for those who wish to see it.Quote:
Your unsuccessfully rationalizing inhumane morally wrong irrational actions.
"Typing bold, coloured and at larger-then-custom size" = typed shouting. No need for that.Quote:
Your Schizophrenic ? hearing things not real ?
Well that explains your delusions
Sometimes you just have to throw the insane in a padded room and help the ones that can be cured. :(
Only one possible reply to that :Quote:
Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}@16 April 2004 - 20:09
Sometimes you just have to throw the insane in a padded room and help the ones that can be cured. :(
:blink:
You are right harry potter. But you can hunt down the terrorists without starting a war. HELP those countries and go after the terrorists. Its so eeeasy :smilie4:Quote:
Originally posted by fred devliegher@16 April 2004 - 19:32
There were two ways of dealing with the situation : hunt down the bombers and end the campaign with force, or change the situation of the working class by improving their condition and giving them the rights they deserved.
Your unsuccessfully rationalizing inhumane morally wrong irrational actions. :P [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}+16 April 2004 - 18:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ({SHELL%SHOCKED} @ 16 April 2004 - 18:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-fred devliegher@16 April 2004 - 18:45
^^ symptoms. Not cause.
Times of crisis are a feeding ground for religious extremism. Just look at the US right now.
EDIT : I'm not blind, there's no reason to shout.
Half of the problem is that you are forcing your morals on another culture.
Morals are not universal...what is moral one place isnt in another.
and please....stop shouting.
Its annoying and bad manners..
Half of the problem is that you are forcing your morals on another culture.Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced+17 April 2004 - 00:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced @ 17 April 2004 - 00:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}@16 April 2004 - 18:54
<!--QuoteBegin-fred devliegher
Quote:
@16 April 2004 - 18:45
^^ symptoms. Not cause.
Times of crisis are a feeding ground for religious extremism. Just look at the US right now.
EDIT : I'm not blind, there's no reason to shout.
Your unsuccessfully rationalizing inhumane morally wrong irrational actions. :P
Morals are not universal...what is moral one place isnt in another.
and please....stop shouting.
Its annoying and bad manners..[/b][/quote]
I'm basing the morality on the UN Charter and Geneva conventions , but I guess sub-Humans don't have the thought capacity just like any other Beast Of Burdon.
What is a "Beast of Burdon", pray tell.
Elizabeth Taylor.Quote:
Originally posted by J'Pol@17 April 2004 - 10:13
What is a "Beast of Burdon", pray tell.
You are right harry potter. But you can hunt down the terrorists without starting a war. HELP those countries and go after the terrorists. Its so eeeasy :smilie4: [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by yonki+17 April 2004 - 00:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (yonki @ 17 April 2004 - 00:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-fred devliegher@16 April 2004 - 19:32
There were two ways of dealing with the situation : hunt down the bombers and end the campaign with force, or change the situation of the working class by improving their condition and giving them the rights they deserved.
I'll skip the Potter remark -
What is your soluton, then ? Keep fighting ? Let American soldiers die weekly until there are non left who are willing to be slaughtered ?
Please, enlighten me...
I second that. And it's spelled "burden" IIRC.Quote:
What is a "Beast of Burdon", pray tell.
I'm basing the morality on the UN Charter and Geneva conventions , but I guess sub-Humans don't have the thought capacity just like any other Beast Of Burdon. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}+17 April 2004 - 01:51--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ({SHELL%SHOCKED} @ 17 April 2004 - 01:51)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 April 2004 - 00:28
Quote:
Originally posted by {SHELL%SHOCKED}@16 April 2004 - 18:54
<!--QuoteBegin-fred devliegher
Quote:
Quote:
@16 April 2004 - 18:45
^^ symptoms. Not cause.
Times of crisis are a feeding ground for religious extremism. Just look at the US right now.
EDIT : I'm not blind, there's no reason to shout.
Your unsuccessfully rationalizing inhumane morally wrong irrational actions. :P
Half of the problem is that you are forcing your morals on another culture.
Morals are not universal...what is moral one place isnt in another.
and please....stop shouting.
Its annoying and bad manners..
Strange, because the USA appears to have pulled out of both for all practical purposes.
For example the USA appears to be the only National State that has never given national legislative action for the mimimum age of marriage: thats left to individual States..contrary to UN Human Rights Conventions. (Yes I know that the individual States have, and so for all Practical purposes the Convention is fulfilled, however allow me to play "Lawyer" just this once :P )
Camp X-Ray was a clear break with the Geneva Convention.
Does this make Americans "Sub Human"? By your arguements it does...I have to disagree with you on that though...
Pallestinians havent got a nation and are not signatories of the UN or the Geneva Convention; yet Israel are.... both sides break the UN Human Rights Conventions and the Geneva Convention frequently, are they both "Sub Human"? Again i have to disagree with you.
What is moral is dependant upon "Ethics" and "Honour".. 2 words that; although having a clear meaning, depend upon the culture in which your living for that definition. An Islamic terrorist, in his eyes, is acting with honour... as is an Israeli Pilot, .... as is Castro, as is...... the list goes on.
.....as i said, stop inflicting your morals on others, as you will quickly find out that in many cases your "Morals" are the exception in some things not the norm... by your own standards that would make YOU the "immoral subhuman".
I suggest you finish Kindergarten before you take part in these debates, as they are obviously way over your head....
this peace offer looks a lot like a demand in a hostage situation ;)
so for that reason it's good they denied it.
Still i think that terrorism has little to do with countries and dictators running them.
The only way to take away the foodingrounds (why someone will become a terrorist, i mean) of terrorism is to divide the wealth in the world in a honest way. If all normal people could live in peace and have a good life there would be little reason to blew themselves up. Respect is a keyword in this.
I still believe if a palestinian child could get raised in a normal house and have normal education is able to play with his gameboy and play soccer without having a chance to be shot or blown up he would be pretty much happy.. wich child wouldn't? So just make sure the palestinians (and all other people in the world in similar situations) get houses decent jobs to take care of their families, and have the right to believe in whatever someone wants to believe in and to travel wherever one may go... there would be little reason to carry a bag full explosives to some place just to blow something up...
Too bad that there are almost none politicians and industrials left that knows the meaning of respect :frusty: (It's all about power and money for them...)
yes i know pretty idealistic but i really believe this is how it should work... ;)
John Lennon said once:
They may say that i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one..... (Imagine)
Well said.
And my point exactly - take away the cause and the effect dissappears with it.
Quote:
Originally posted by From Baghdad Burning+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (From Baghdad Burning)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Still, when I hear talk about "anti-Americanism" it angers me. Why does American identify itself with its military and government? Why is does being anti-Bush and anti-occupation have to mean that a person is anti-American? [/b]
Excellent point!!! It seems a number of forum members don't think that way. They insult the "American people".
<!--QuoteBegin-From Baghdad Burning
I hate American tanks in Baghdad and American soldiers on our streets and in our homes on occasion.[/quote]
I totally agree. We should not be in a country where we are not wanted even though I think most Iraqis are glad Saddam is gone.
Does America pull troops out now? Like Afghanistan?
Will a new dictator take Saddams place? Most likely.
The Iraqi people will probably unite under someone....only with disdain for America. Or they will fight amongst themselves.
btw not everyone hates America's meddling. We should have let Saddam take over Kuwait I guess. <_<
After that, I'm sure he would have stopped there.
You seem to have forgotten that the original Gulf War is the reason Saddam hated the USA so much.
He discussed it with the US Government before he went into Kuwait and they told him "We are not interested in a purely Arabian War"
...he took this as a green light, and felt that the USA response was a betrayal on what they told him beforhand..
The US may have prevented the Gulf War, with no bloodshed, much the same way Chamberlain may have been able to prevent WWII....
...cant unspill milk however :P
Even so, at the time of Kuwait BL was a US ally fighting against Iraq....so whats your point here in connection with the thread?
.... Oh, yeh...he was this time too....
My Bad :ph34r:
Could you give us a link to this "discussion".Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 April 2004 - 18:56
You seem to have forgotten that the original Gulf War is the reason Saddam hated the USA so much.
He discussed it with the US Government before he went into Kuwait and they told him "We are not interested in a purely Arabian War"
...he took this as a green light, and felt that the USA response was a betrayal on what they told him beforhand..
The US may have prevented the Gulf War, with no bloodshed, much the same way Chamberlain may have been able to prevent WWII....
...cant unspill milk however :P
Even so, at the time of Kuwait BL was a US ally fighting against Iraq....so whats your point here in connection with the thread?
.... Oh, yeh...he was this time too....
My Bad :ph34r:
So as long as people run it by the US, and we show no interest, this is equivalent to approving a war?
I thought the UN approved the first Gulf War. Was the US supposed to block it with a veto?
This makes it seeems that the US gives the nod worldwide on what people can and can't do. We should be given a title for this honor, or something.
What is an ally?
An ally is someone who does what what you tell them.
A foe does the opposite.
A friend is someone you rely on.
Whether Saddam or Bin Laden were considered allies at some time, for some reason, never makes them "friends". They were just bitches doing what we wanted. The relationship was a simple and paper thin as that.
Once they stop doing what they are told, they are the Axis of Evil, that is politics.
Dictionary.com on allyQuote:
What is an ally?
An ally is someone who does what what you tell them.
A foe does the opposite.
A friend is someone you rely on.
An ally is someone who shares your ideas, whom you cooperate with to achieve a common goal. You described a puppy.Quote:
1. To place in a friendly association, as by treaty.
2. To unite or connect in a personal relationship, as in friendship or marriage.
And "ally" implies that there is at least a modicum of trust and mutual agreement.
Hobbes, re-read the post.
I said "He took this to mean..."
I did not say that anyone else agreed with His thoughts...
I really hope you dont mean that, you are far too intelligent to make such assumptions...Quote:
What is an ally?
An ally is someone who does what what you tell them.
An Ally, in this case, is an organisation that was fighting alongside your own troops to defeat a common enemy.
This does not necessarily make the Ally a friend... or Russia would have been the most welcome country on the planet after WWII...
What I am saying is that people are misusing the word "ally".
Bin Laden and Saddam were never more than "bitches", they were never allies.
People toss around the word ally, to create a false impression that there was some underlying friendship and trust. That was never the case, and that is my point.
Saddam and Bin Laden were never "allies", they were resources utilized to accomplish specific objectives.
Source:
Hobbesdictionary.com:
ally:
When the common foe is eliminated, an ally is someone who will not drive an icepick into your spine when your back is turned.
As for your first post Rat, it came off as reading that if the US had simply told Saddam "no", then, just like that, Kuwait would never have been invaded. Makes us sound like something a little more powerful than we are.
Well the US administrations of the time(s) publicly called Iraq an "Ally"...
How then, do your legitimate "allies" know that they are "Allies" and not "Bitches"?
BTW:
I already know the UK government is the USA's "Bitch"...a poodle to be precise :P
And like all good politicians, they tell the "truth". It is just PC bullshit.Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 April 2004 - 20:03
Well the US administrations of the time(s) publicly called Iraq an "Ally"...
How then, do your legitimate "allies" know that they are "Allies" and not "Bitches"?
BTW:
I already know the UK government is the USA's "Bitch"...a poodle to be precise :P
Politicians speak in black and white: with us/against us.
"Temporary Bitch" is a gray term and therefore does not exist in politician speak.
How can you be an ally with someone who is oppressing and killing his own citizens on their soil. How can you be an ally with a dictator?
America stands for individual freedom and choice in government, and we can only be truly allied with like minded people. That is really the core. You can take all the cheap you want at fixed elections and so on, but you cannot deny that core nugget of truth.
An ally is someone that you would leave to babysit your child.
An ally, may not always agree with you but will not turn against you.
You are wrong about the UK, you guys may be acting as a bit of a puppet to lend credence to our war, but you are still "allies".
I think it would be incredibly difficult to convince the American people to wage war against the UK, there are simply too many bonds that link our nations.
Come ahead, if you think your hard enough.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@17 April 2004 - 20:17
I think it would be incredibly difficult to convince the American people to wage war against the UK, there are simply too many bonds that link our nations.
Did you not post a link to Baghdad Burning?Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 April 2004 - 13:56
Even so, at the time of Kuwait BL was a US ally fighting against Iraq....so whats your point here in connection with the thread?
.... Oh, yeh...he was this time too....
My Bad :ph34r:
Perhaps you should read it?
My posts are obvious responses to a link that you posted.
Come ahead, if you think your hard enough. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by J'Pol+17 April 2004 - 15:46--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'Pol @ 17 April 2004 - 15:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@17 April 2004 - 20:17
I think it would be incredibly difficult to convince the American people to wage war against the UK, there are simply too many bonds that link our nations.
:lol: :lol:
That war was over eons ago except is was on America soil.
Water under the bridge.
I hope Busyman is not typical of Americans or I may have to reserve my judgement on the "Sub-Human" debate...Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Camp X-Ray was a clear break with the Geneva Convention.
Does this make Americans "Sub Human"? By your arguements it does...I have to disagree with you on that though...[/b]
Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Saddam and Bin Laden were never "allies", they were resources utilized to accomplish specific objectives.[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced@
How then, do your legitimate "allies" know that they are "Allies" and not "Bitches"?[/quote] Interesting question. Perhaps they could sign a "Contract to Supply the United States with Bitches"
"...392.1 - Termination of Contract.
Upon the termination of this contract (which shall be at the sole discretion of the United States) any activities performed by Bitches will thereafter be know as Terrorist Activities. Terrorist Activities may incur subsequent charges, such as: Murder, Genocide or, in the extreme, Anti-American. The United States will take no responsibility for the preperation, equipping, teaching, supplying or support of fromer Bitches, and reserves the right to convey the title "Enemies of Freedom" upon them.
(Hey, that actually sounds like something drafted by Ashcroft...)
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
An ally is someone that you would leave to babysit your child.[/quote] The United States of America will babysit my kid?
I don't claim to know much of Iraq as an ally.
I do know they were aliies and there is a picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam (saw it on the subway).
I do know also there is something called the "lesser evil at the time".
I guess in the Iran/Iraq war, Iran did not serve the interests of the US.
Again I don't claim to why.
We aided Afghanistan against Russia yet now we are on "speaking terms" with Russia.
It seems the US jumps in whenever there's a country trying to "expand".
I think of Hitler running over country after country.