Vets Charge: Kerry Killed Fleeing Teen

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@9 August 2004 - 16:20
I could care less either way because Kerry’s 20 year voting record is what sealed the deal for me not his service in Vietnam.

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Oh it wasn't the fact that you blindly vote Republican? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You act like you gave Kerry a chance..... Please. <_<

Keep in mind Bush has already lost.

Liberals and Democrats are gonna vote Kerry.
Many Republicans have switched sides to Kerry.
People who previously didn&#39;t vote will vote for Kerry.
Republicans have not gained anymore than the previously election.

He supports outsourcing jobs to India wtf&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;. :blink:

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Originally posted by clocker@9 August 2004 - 17:12
Kerry&#39;s service record IS an issue simply becase Bush has put the country into a military stance...we have troops on the ground, actively invading another country.
This is no hit-and-run op...hell, even Tommy Franks now says we&#39;re going to be in there for five years.
The fact that Kerry has experienced war on a personal level would certainly seem to be a positive qualification, given the times.
Furthermore, in my experience it is not uncommon for Vietnam vets to be of two minds about their service during that war.
Keep in mind, I am a direct peer to most of that group (college deferment for me) and now, with the perspective afforded by the passage of 35 years, many of the participants are not as gung-ho as once they were.

Hank, if Bush had possessed ANY record of government service prior to becoming govenor and then President, you can bet HIS voting records would be riddled with the "Flip-Flops" the Republicans are so fond of smearing Kerry with.
Heck, just since the beginning of his Presidency Bush has swapped position many times on major issues.
Remember the famous "We&#39;re not going to be a nation-builder" plank from the 2000 Republican convention plank?
Or the promise to increase the Federal budget surplus?
Hmmm?
Fact is, you&#39;d be hard pressed to find even a single promise that Bush made in order to win the Presidency that he has kept.

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Anyone can say something and change their mind but no one does it like Senator flip flop. He even flopped during his own speech at the convention. One minute he tells President Bush that it time to run a positive campaign but in the same speech he hammering on the war in Iraq and pollutants.

Kerry’s record is an issue because he made it an issue. What’s his brilliant plan to bring peace to Iraq? All he ever keeps saying is he’s going to go to the UN. Haven’t we been through this before? We put it to a vote before we went in there.

Tommy Franks is without a doubt correct in his assumption that we will have troops there from 5 years. We have troops on duty all over the world.


Edited for Busyman:

Bush supports outsourcing?

You better not ask Senator Kerry’s wife made most of her fortune then.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@9 August 2004 - 20:56
Edited for Busyman:

Bush supports outsourcing?

You better not ask Senator Kerry’s wife made most of her fortune then.

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I&#39;m sorry I didn&#39;t know Senator Kerry&#39;s wife was the President of our country.

Tax cuts during wartime that Bush got us into.
Supports outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries which only benefits the executives and shareholders of companies.
Can&#39;t talk worth 2 shits unless it&#39;s a speech. (and can even fuck that up so forget him being a "diplomatic President")

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Originally posted by Busyman@9 August 2004 - 20:31
I&#39;m sorry I didn&#39;t know Senator Kerry&#39;s wife was the President of our country.

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Apparently you are also unaware that her husband is running to be President.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank+9 August 2004 - 21:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigBank_Hank @ 9 August 2004 - 21:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@9 August 2004 - 20:31
I&#39;m sorry I didn&#39;t know Senator Kerry&#39;s wife was the President of our country.

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Apparently you are also unaware that her husband is running to be President. [/b][/quote]
I know that but what are you on about otherwise?

Oh I guess that’s one little thing that he forgot to mention during his speech at the convention. See Senator Kerry is firmly against “Benedict Arnold” companies as he likes to call them but in reality he and his wife have made millions from the outsourced employers of the Heinz corporation.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank
Kerry’s record is an issue because he made it an issue. What’s his brilliant plan to bring peace to Iraq? All he ever keeps saying is he’s going to go to the UN. Haven’t we been through this before? We put it to a vote before we went in there.

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No, you didn&#39;t put it to a vote before the US went in to Iraq. The US said "We&#39;re going to invade Iraq. We&#39;d like you guys in the UN to come with us to help pay for the damage, but if you don&#39;t want to you can get fucked cause we&#39;re gonna do it anyway".
There was hardly any debate, because the outcome was always going to be the invasion of Iraq, whether it was sanctioned by the UN or not.

Perhaps Kerry&#39;s idea of begging forgiveness from the UN will make it&#39;s member countries less hostile to America in the future, which, with a global economy and trading becoming easier would be a good thing for the US. You guys are really well positioned in the market place. No matter how much you think you own it, perhaps erring on the side of caution and being nice to other countries would be a pleasant change.

It would certainly be a novelty.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@9 August 2004 - 22:58
Oh I guess that’s one little thing that he forgot to mention during his speech at the convention. See Senator Kerry is firmly against “Benedict Arnold” companies as he likes to call them but in reality he and his wife have made millions from the outsourced employers of the Heinz corporation.

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Ok is he for outsourcing work to foreign countries or not? :blink:

Well you see its ok for he and his wife to make millions but it’s not ok for the US to loose jobs to other countries. Got it?

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@9 August 2004 - 23:09
Well you see its ok for he and his wife to make millions but it’s not ok for the US to loose jobs to other countries. Got it?

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You still are batting the Bush explaining this. You are speaking to a person who has no knowledge of Kerry making millions outsourcing work to foreign countries.

Enlighten me damnit&#33;&#33;&#33;

Translation: Give me the lowdown. ;)

Ever hear of the Heinz corporation? Now how about Teresa Heinz Kerry?

They have a little company that makes ketchup and a nice chuck of the business is done overseas. So is it ok for the Heinz company to make millions from outscored jobs while Kerry says he’s against it?

Hell if it wasn’t for the Heinz company there’d be no money to fund his whole campaign.

Hienz is a worldwide company so it makes it&#39;s product in the countries it sells in. I believe that the products sold in this country are made here. Are you suggesting that it only makes it in the USA and exports?
The outsourcing that is being complained about is things like tech support jobs going to india or nike making their shoes in asia and importing them here, as far as i see it.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@9 August 2004 - 23:22
Ever hear of the Heinz corporation? Now how about Teresa Heinz Kerry?

They have a little company that makes ketchup and a nice chuck of the business is done overseas. So is it ok for the Heinz company to make millions from outscored jobs while Kerry says he’s against it?

Hell if it wasn’t for the Heinz company there’d be no money to fund his whole campaign.

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Okayyyyyy.

I mean what jobs do they outsource?

Do they have Indians packing the ketchup or what?

Vid,

Aren’t Dell, Nike, and ect worldwide companies?

On a side note you mentioned tech support guys being Indian. I mean no offense to anyone from India when I say this but I hate when I have to talk to those guys on the phone. I can never understand a damn thing that they are saying and I have to keep asking them to repeat themselves.

i hate it when Indians always try to ram their "hey this is not a public library, either buy it or get out" down my throat, while i&#39;m trying to enjoy a little Penthouse Forum.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@9 August 2004 - 21:40
Vid,

Aren’t Dell, Nike, and ect worldwide companies?

On a side note you mentioned tech support guys being Indian. I mean no offense to anyone from India when I say this but I hate when I have to talk to those guys on the phone. I can never understand a damn thing that they are saying and I have to keep asking them to repeat themselves.

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My point is, when i gave the example is that companies like nike and Dell moved jobs out of America as they could save money by taking advantage of cheap labor.
Hienz is a "food" company (forgetting any other connections) and manufactures where it sells. It wouldn&#39;t be economically viable to produce everything here and export it. The company expanded over the years, it didn&#39;t "shut down and move" as far as i am aware.

I agree it may be possible that they have administration in another country but i am unaware of this as a fact.

As to Dell and your language problems i believe they had a change of heart and moved back here after too many customer complaints. But they were just examples.

besides read this

I never claimed that he and his wife owned the company just profited from it.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 09:46
I never claimed that he and his wife owned the company just profited from it.

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i haven&#39;t suggested you made that claim. all i have done is point out that the heinz "outsourcing" claim was bogus....unless one wants to make the same claim about all multinational companies that work in the same manner.
Outsourcing is where they replace American jobs with those abroad to do something that is for use in our country. For example an American clothing company closing it&#39;s production lines in the states and moving it to asia then importing those clothes back here to sell. Not when they open new factories etc. to make a product or service for the country that factory is located in....thats called expansion.
To put it in perspective.
A german company that makes sausages decides to set up production in the USA. Should it only employ Germans in that factory as some right wingers have suggested the heinz company should be doing with Americans?
Heinz hasn&#39;t closed American factories and transfered the jobs abraod...they have expanded by opening factories in a location that isn&#39;t within the USA.

Outsourcing is bad for the American worker and shows that corporate patriotism sleeps with the dollar and not with the nation, but then that&#39;s business :(

I wonder why they decided to expand their companies overseas instead of creating jobs in America. Do you think that cheap labor rates may have played a part? Nah. I bet it never crossed their minds.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 12:17
I wonder why they decided to expand their companies overseas instead of creating jobs in America. Do you think that cheap labor rates may have played a part? Nah. I bet it never crossed their minds.

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Perhaps because the USA market although vast is finite and they wanted to expand to make more money and the only way is to trade outside the USA.
Think about it. How much would in this case Heinz have to charge for a bottle of ketchup sold in france if they manufactured it in the USA and had to cover the distribution costs? nobody would buy it and therefore make it a pointless task and reduce the share value of an American company.

Hank, here I actually thought you had some juicy information and now I see you are talking out the side of your neck.

That&#39;s like saying McDonald&#39;s outsources by building restaurants abroad.

You are truly an #4iot. I can&#39;t believe...well fuck it&#33;&#33;&#33; No wonder America is fucked up.

Talk about the uninformed or spin doctor. <_<

Your argument (in this case) against Kerry is shitted on.

Ahhhh...but what about Bush hmmmmmmmm.

Apparently it&#39;s ok for Bush to back sending jobs abroad.

He&#39;s so patriotic.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 18:17
I wonder why they decided to expand their companies overseas instead of creating jobs in America. Do you think that cheap labor rates may have played a part? Nah. I bet it never crossed their minds.

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Because the American Market is only so big.

Out of 6 Billion, you only have 300 Million inhabitants... so i guess they wanted to compete in other countries too?

Just like many American Companies... they arent all outsourcing.

I think your mixing up too seperate issues Hank...

expansion = good for profit AND USA (or where ever the company is based)

outsourcing = good for profit BUT bad for USA (or wher ever the company is based)

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Originally posted by Rat Faced+10 August 2004 - 15:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced @ 10 August 2004 - 15:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 18:17
I wonder why they decided to expand their companies overseas instead of creating jobs in America. Do you think that cheap labor rates may have played a part? Nah. I bet it never crossed their minds.

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Because the American Market is only so big.

Out of 6 Billion, you only have 300 Million inhabitants... so i guess they wanted to compete in other countries too?

Just like many American Companies... they arent all outsourcing.

I think your mixing up too seperate issues Hank...

expansion = good for profit AND USA (or where ever the company is based)

outsourcing = good for profit BUT bad for USA (or wher ever the company is based) [/b][/quote]
You know Rat, I believe Hank knew the difference but this was typical spin.

my god there IS an echo in here :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Heinz company owns 79 plants and 57 of them are overseas. The products can be made just as easily here as and shipped overseas creating more jobs at home.

Now I understand that its good for business to expand and create jobs in other markets, which is exactly what the Heinz company did. Kerry has been accusing Bush of essentially encouraging the loss of jobs overseas when those very same corporate strategies are the same as the Heinz Corp.

Ok hank of the 22 plants heinz has in the states..where are they located?

I&#39;ll tell you, all over the place

Why?

Because it make logistical and economic sense to make the product closer to the customer.

Now how much has the cost of fuel gone up?

A great deal

what does that mean to any industry?

Logistics cost more and the further away the customer the more it costs to transport.


what does this mean?

it means that the product sale price has to increase to be able to make the a profit and pay for the cost of the logistics.

But if the price is expensive who will buy it?

Very few, they will buy the locally produced product that is much cheaper.


just in the states large companies have factories at different ends of the country purely to make the logistics cheaper and the product viable.

would you pay &#036;15 for a bottle of ketchup?

But i agree with your thinking...lets close down all the foriegn companies operating branches here that give americans jobs or open our employment laws so foreign companies can bring in their own workers.

Heinz would only be outsourcing if the ketchup made in the UK was then shipped back to the States putting US workers out of a job. If a product is to be sold in a specific country (especially foodstuffs) then it is more practical to make it in that country.

Even beers etc., are bottled over here.

Coca Cola is made here, Fords are made here etc., etc., These are not outsourced jobs they are an attempt to be competitive in a foreign market. If Heinz tried to ship ketchup here, shipping costs, import duties etc., would make the product uncompetitive and locally produced items would take all their market share.

It tends to be luxury high cost (in relation to shipping size) items that are imported i.e. DKNY, Jack Daniels and similar.

Out-sourcing is getting a little Thai girl to work 23 hours a day to make &#036;200 trainers (that used to be made in the US) specifically for the US market. The only difference being that she gets paid a &#036;1 a day.

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Originally posted by vidcc@10 August 2004 - 15:17
my god there IS an echo in here :lol: :lol: :lol:

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:D

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 17:31
The Heinz company owns 79 plants and 57 of them are overseas. The products can be made just as easily here as and shipped overseas creating more jobs at home.

Now I understand that its good for business to expand and create jobs in other markets, which is exactly what the Heinz company did. Kerry has been accusing Bush of essentially encouraging the loss of jobs overseas when those very same corporate strategies are the same as the Heinz Corp.

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No there not.
Have you been reading?

Sit down.

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Currently, 60% of the sales of the H.J. Heinz Company are outside the United States and to accommodate those customers by providing facilities closer to those markets, the company maintains a number of overseas facilities that provide products for consumers in those markets.

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Heinz&#39;s 50 companies have number-one or number-two brands in 200 countries, showcased by Heinz® Ketchup, the world&#39;s favorite ketchup.

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H. J. Heinz Company today is an enterprise with over 110 major locations worldwide, with leading brands on six continents.

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Someone&#39;s been reading pro-Bush websites and not interpreting the information for themslves. I figured this without even seeing the information. It&#39;s a damn food services company&#33;&#33;&#33;

Moving a factory to service customers in the same vicinity ain&#39;t outsourcing. It actually created a job.

Moving an IT job or call center that was here and now abroad IS outsourcing.

The job was MOVED.

I think a STFU is in order. <_<

(talk about the uninformed being allowed to vote, jeez, this is common sense)

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Originally posted by vidcc+10 August 2004 - 22:12--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 10 August 2004 - 22:12)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vidcc@10 August 2004 - 15:17
my god there IS an echo in here :lol:&nbsp; :lol:&nbsp; :lol:

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:D [/b][/quote]
:lol:

You beat me to it&#33;

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Originally posted by Biggles@10 August 2004 - 17:56
Out-sourcing is getting a little Thai girl to work 23 hours a day to make &#036;200 trainers (that used to be made in the US) specifically for the US market. The only difference being that she gets paid a &#036;1 a day.

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Hank would have a major point if John&#39;s wife was named Teresa Nike Kerry. :lol: :lol:

Other than that the only similarity between Hank and j2 is the Republican party affiliation.

One of them actually makes good points, shows intelligence, etc.

Soooo, back on topic; These swiftboat guys have released abook documenting these accusations with over 60 swiftboat guy quotes. I was listening to the guy who orchestrated this on Sean Hannity and he seems pretty confident; he was aggressive in calling senator kerry out.

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Originally posted by spinningfreemanny@10 August 2004 - 22:29
Soooo, back on topic; These swiftboat guys have released abook documenting these accusations with over 60 swiftboat guy quotes. I was listening to the guy who orchestrated this on Sean Hannity and he seems pretty confident; he was aggressive in calling senator kerry out.

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I read yesterday that a number of the individuals had withdrawn their accusation. The waters are muddy. What is really happening over there?

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 16:31
Now I understand that its good for business to expand and create jobs in other markets, which is exactly what the Heinz company did. Kerry has been accusing Bush of essentially encouraging the loss of jobs overseas when those very same corporate strategies are the same as the Heinz Corp.

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Shhhhh listen…. Opps you missed it Busyman my point just went right over your head.

Now you all have seemed to jump the gun a bit here as usual. I never said that she owned the company, which we’ve already been through. Secondly I never said that it was a bad thing to open business worldwide. What I was pointing out is how big of a hypocrite Kerry is. He’s complaing about how many jobs we loose over seas, which is just how his wife made her fortune.

Here’s a break down for all of you.

HERE

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 16:35
What I was pointing out is how big of a hypocrite Kerry is. He’s complaing about how many jobs we loose over seas, which is just how his wife made her fortune.&nbsp;

Here’s a break down for all of you.

HERE

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And we are pointing out a difference between expanding worldwide and outsourcing..the difference is clear cut.
Americans have not and are not losing jobs in the heinz company due to outsourcing. Hienz hasn&#39;t closed any factories and moved them abroad then imported the product back here.



by the way didn&#39;t kerry&#39;s wife "inherit" the fortune rather than make it ?

Edit: if you go to the heinz website you can see that list without pointing to that right wing site.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 16:35

Shhhhh listen…. Opps you missed it Busyman my point just went right over your head.



Here’s a break down for all of you.

HERE

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Sorry, but your "point" ( such as it may be) didn&#39;t rise high enough to clear Herve Vallenchez&#39;s head.
Everyone has already acknowledged the fact that Heinz has overseas factories.

Probably not a huge call for the oyster sauce over here anyway.

Hank, I think you are making a big mistake concentrating on a food business anyway ( although I can see how the Kerry connection makes it fatally attractive to you).
Do you have any idea how much of our food comes from overseas?
America is not the "World&#39;s Breadbasket" anymore.
Labor costs and lucrative government subsidies have all but killed the farm business here.
We PAY folks NOT to grow things, we give huge amounts of cash to tobacco farmers ( while simultaneously spending huge amounts to curb tobacco use...go figure), we stockpile ( at the cost of millions annually) sugar that no one wants or needs ( but the sugar lobby is very influential)...the list goes on and on.
Do you have any idea where the seed for the lettuce on your Big Mac came from?
China.
(In fact, I believe that most of the tulips for which Holland is so famous are now grown there also.)

Your plaints about the Heinz Corp. are baseless and silly.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@10 August 2004 - 18:35
What I was pointing out is how big of a hypocrite Kerry is. He’s complaing about how many jobs we loose over seas, which is just how his wife made her fortune.

Here’s a break down for all of you.

HERE

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No Hank you are saying Kerry&#39;s a hypocrite because your right-wing website says it.

Use your own friggin&#39; brain for once in life&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

THE FUCKING JOBS OVERSEAS WERE CREATED NOT MOVED

PAY ATTENTION&#33;&#33;&#33;


By the way, Teresa Heinz Kerry is the CEO? :lol: :lol:

She seems like a person living off her family&#39;s fortune to me.
I could be wrong though.

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Originally posted by Busyman@10 August 2004 - 17:21
Other than that the only similarity between Hank and j2 is the Republican party affiliation.

One of them actually makes good points, shows intelligence, etc.

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This strikes me as quite small and churlish.

Strange days.

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Originally posted by j2k4+10 August 2004 - 21:01--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 10 August 2004 - 21:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@10 August 2004 - 17:21
Other than that the only similarity between Hank and j2 is the Republican party affiliation.

One of them actually makes good points, shows intelligence, etc.

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This strikes me as quite small and churlish.
[/b][/quote]
Very well.

Hank (like Bush), just because you say it doesn&#39;t make it true. Some people seem to think that if you repeat the same thing over and over makes it a fact...

Hank, do you hate Kerry or love Bush?