Prince Harry

It could of been worse, he nearly went as one of the SS for fecks sake :dry:

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Originally Posted by Jonno

personally I think it would be better and more dissrespectfull to Hitler to wipe it from history.

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Jonno, ever hear someone say that you learn from your mistakes. If people forget about those mistakes then how are they to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Are you feeling quite OK?

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Sorry Mr.S I dissagree, I don't see the need to keep reminding people of the past, we all know what happend.

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That would be 'cos people are reminded of the past.

I have just read a quote in the paper which I think sums it up perfectly Jonno

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You are talking about a war in which millions of people in Europe were killed and terribly injured because of one man - Hitler. And the swastika was the symbol he used for his evil regime

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Maybe thats why the outcry?

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Sorry Mr.S I dissagree, I don't see the need to keep reminding people of the past, we all know what happend. If thats the case people should all go to a thousand other places where similar things have happend.

Rememberance day is for those who fought for freedom and lost their lives, not a reminder of how bad Hitler was, personally I think it would be better and more dissrespectfull to Hitler to wipe it from history.
There are still people who hate German people due to this, is that right?
No.

New century, why can't we move forward instead of hanging onto the past?

Jonno :cool:

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I said that, Dan :unsure:

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Originally Posted by manker

You don't think it's acceptable but you do think it's hysterical. You now like Harry just because he wore a swastika on his arm. I don't think I'm twisting your words. I'm reacting to your points earlier in the thread. I think you've decided to alter your view about wearing swastikas. Well done.

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No, I don't think the act it's self was funny, what I find funny is the rebelious streak, Dianna done it, Fergy done it, things the Royal Family thought were bad and they were outcasted for it.
I like anything that upsets the Royals simply because I don't like them.
That's my right.

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I don't make jokes about genocide and I don't think racism is funny.

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So you did'nt laugh at Fawlty Towers - The Germans episode?

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Also I've not commented on the public outcry to this, I care little of what the reactionaries in our society think, I care more of the feelings experienced by those most closely affected by the nazis.We live in a permissive society, people are allowed to do lots of things that I consider wrong. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean that it is morally right. For fucks sake, think for yourself man.

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I am thinking for myself thank you :)
These are my opinions and I am entitled to them.

I'm not gonna keep repeating myself, nor am I gonna allow you to try to make me out to be a hitler lover, I've stated what I thought was funny, I've made my points, I've put flaws in the system with reguards to what is allowed and what is'nt.

My points in short:

1: His rebelious streak I find comical, same as when he was caught drunk and smoking pot.

2: I don't have any respect for Hitler or his ideals.

3: The public outcry for punishment is pathetic.

4: Had it been any other public figure no one would have cared.

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by manker

I think I said that, Dan :unsure:

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it was better from the paper being said by an 82 year old man who fought though

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Originally Posted by manker

Jonno, ever hear someone say that you learn from your mistakes. If people forget about those mistakes then how are they to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Are you feeling quite OK?

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So you would like to go to the place where your Grandmother or some other relation was brutally murdered?

You would like to see reinactments on tv?

Personally I would'nt.

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

4: Had it been any other public figure no one would have cared.

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Thats purely hypothetical, I don't think anyone will make the mistake of even attemopting after this.

What public figure you have in mind anyway? I reckon if that was a pic of Tony Blair at a fancy dress party wearing the costume the outcry would have been worse

Jonno, I said that wearing a swastika was unacceptable. you replied:

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Originally Posted by jonno

@Manker.... I don't see any difference to wearing an English battle uniform from way back when we were just as bad. It's a fancy dress party ffs

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That is why I've been explaining to you the reasons as to why it is unacceptable.

I'm glad you now believe it's unacceptable to wear a swastika in public :)

I dare say people would have been slightly miffed if for example Tony Blair had donned the same uniform and gotten himself photographed.

I think, though I'd rather it wasn't so, that people are upset because someone they consider a rolemodel, and someone with influence, strapped on the uniform what they consider to be the most evil coherent unit in modern times.

People wearing that uniform turned human beings into soap, ffs.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

So you would like to go to the place where your Grandmother or some other relation was brutally murdered?

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Would that be like when there is a bike crash and the family leave flowers at the scene? :unsure: Lots of people do that

:lol: That would be funny :lol:

See, this is what I'm saying, ok it's wrong, but I find it really funny when someone is such a position does something like this.

Anyway, you guys are refusing to see any of my points and seem to be twisting what I'm saying, I've said I thought it was wrong several times so I have agreed with you.

My points have not been whether what he done was right or wrong, but the overeaction of the Royals and the public to something which on the grand scale of things means absolutely fuck all.

He wore a fancy dress, big deal, he will apologise, end of story right?
But no, it will be going on for ages and he will never be allowed to forget it.

Jonno :cool:

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

So you would like to go to the place where your Grandmother or some other relation was brutally murdered?

You would like to see reinactments on tv?

Personally I would'nt.

Jonno :cool:

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Yes I'd go to pay my respects.

I'd hate for it to be forgotten, wiped from history.

It may make me personally uncomfortable and upset me a little but it's all for ther greater good.

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Originally Posted by DanB

Would that be like when there is a bike crash and the family leave flowers at the scene? :unsure: Lots of people do that

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No, it would be like the mangled car is left there so everyone can see exactly how they died.

IMO anyway., I personally would not like to see somethng like that, I actually avoid a certain road in my town where a friend was killed on a bike due to the nature of how it happend and I find it upsetting. Plus the mark is still on the side of the road where his handlebar goudged some tarmac, this is 6 years later.

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by jonno

he will never be allowed to forget it.

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Jonno, that's a good thing.

We learn from our mistakes. He must learn from this and never do it again, if he forgets about it then the idiot may again do likewise.

Skewing off topic here lol

@Manker...... yes thats your personal preference, I have mine to :)

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

No, it would be like the mangled car is left there so everyone can see exactly how they died.

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Actually it wouldn't, auswitch is just a set of ruins, and schindler's list doesn't begin to describe exactly how it must have been like for those there.

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

On the assumption that your "Bamp" is a member of your family, I 100% agree with your sentiment. I think this really was outrageous, with the only excuse being that he is just too thick to realize what a dreadfully insensitive thing it was to do. To say nothing of the fact that someone within his entourage must have seen it. He did not go to a shop buy this and wear it without anyone else seeing it. Having said that he may have been advised against it but wore it anyway.

The crap about Freddie Star etc is specious. They are mocking the people who commit these atrocities, not emulating them.

His Father is an idiot and his Grandfather is a racist idiot, his family is totally dysfunctional It is hardly surprising that he turned out not to understand how this would be seen.

I'm afraid that daft laddie syndrome does not excuse it when it's this bad.

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Yeah, Bamp is my Grandfather.

Obviously I can identify with your thoughts on this issue. I seriously cannot uphold the thinking of anyone who says 'it was only a costume'.

RF was talking of the Noblesse Oblige the other day :lol:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Actually it wouldn't, auswitch is just a set of ruins, and schindler's list doesn't begin to describe exactly how it must have been like for those there.

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Unfortunately thats very true

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

The crap about Freddie Star etc is specious. They are mocking the people who commit these atrocities, not emulating them.

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How do we know that Harry was not mocking them too. If this was the case then it would make this whole thread crap.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

@Manker...... yes thats your personal preference, I have mine to :)

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So I'm prepared to undergo a little personal discomfort for the greater societal good and you're not.

It's a free country, I guess :ermm:

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Originally Posted by bigboab

How do we know that Harry was not mocking them too. If this was the case then it would make this whole thread crap.

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Cos Prince Harry wasn't doing a stand up show and isn't a comedian perhaps? :huh:

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Originally Posted by bigboab

How do we know that Harry was not mocking them too. If this was the case then it would make this whole thread crap.

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You believe Harry was mocking them. Please explain a little more, Boab.

In what way did you perceive him to be mocking. How is wearing a swastika, smoking cigarettes, drinking Pimms and having a laugh with your mates mocking the nazi ideal.

I do all of things wearing a Man Utd t-shirt on occasion - swap the Pimms for Babycham - yet I don't feel as if I'm mocking them.

What an odd comment you've made.

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Originally Posted by DanB

Cos Prince Harry wasn't doing a stand up show and isn't a comedian perhaps? :huh:

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Maybe he wore silly underwear underneath. Or did he wear clown shoes, did anyone see his feet? :unsure:

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Originally Posted by manker

So I'm prepared to undergo a little personal discomfort for the greater societal good and you're not.

It's a free country, I guess :ermm:

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Is it wrong that I don't go to funerals if I can help it?

I did'nt go to my friends funeral, but I did pay my respects, he asked me to ride a wave for him (fellow surfer died of cancer at 30y/o) , I did that.
Can I not pay my respects in my own way?
Do I not have that right? Am I a bad person for that?

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by DanB

Cos Prince Harry wasn't doing a stand up show and isn't a comedian perhaps? :huh:

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No, he was at a private fancy dress party.

No one should have seen it, a stand up comic does it for the public, I think there is the peverbial nail being hit on teh head :)

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Is it wrong that I don't go to funerals if I can help it?

I did'nt go to my friends funeral, but I did pay my respects, he asked me to ride a wave for him (fellow surfer died of cancer at 30y/o) , I did that.
Can I not pay my respects in my own way?
Do I not have that right? Am I a bad person for that?

Jonno :cool:

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You want to forget the genocide tho'.

That's not the same thing as not going to the funeral. More like making yourself forget he was ever there.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Is it wrong that I don't go to funerals if I can help it?

I did'nt go to my friends funeral, but I did pay my respects, he asked me to ride a wave for him (fellow surfer died of cancer at 30y/o) , I did that.
Can I not pay my respects in my own way?
Do I not have that right? Am I a bad person for that?

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I couldn't care less.

You stated earlier that wearing a swastika was OK. You've changed your mind, presumably because of this thread, I'm happy with that.

:)

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Is it wrong that I don't go to funerals if I can help it?

I did'nt go to my friends funeral, but I did pay my respects, he asked me to ride a wave for him (fellow surfer died of cancer at 30y/o) , I did that.
Can I not pay my respects in my own way?
Do I not have that right? Am I a bad person for that?

Jonno :cool:

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wtf as this got to do with your suggestion of wiping Hitler from history? :blink:

By remembering him you aren't paying yor respects you're learning about teh evil and educating on what is blatantly unacceptable and ensuring it can't happen again

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

No, he was at a private fancy dress party.

No one should have seen it, a stand up comic does it for the public, I think there is the peverbial nail being hit on teh head :)

Jonno :cool:

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He's constantly watched by the media, it's how his fancy education and lifestyle are paid for.

There ain't no such thing as private for him, that's the price he pays for being a prince.

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Originally Posted by manker

I couldn't care less.

You stated earlier that wearing a swastika was OK.

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Whoa whoa at what point did I make that statement?

I have said numorous times in this thread he was wrong to do it, my whole argument is against the overeaction of the public and the need for him to be punished for it.

@Dan...... I know what's right and wrong and personally would prefer not to be reminded of it, I know the history of the war, I know what happend, I have learnt all I wish to learn on the subject.

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

You know as well as I do that he was not mocking them.

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I dont know because I was not there.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Whoa whoa at what point did I make that statement?

I have said numorous times in this thread he was wrong to do it, my whole argument is against the overeaction of the public and the need for him to be punished for it.

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Bollocks. I couldn't give a flying fuck about what you think about the public outcry, I wouldn't have batted an eye and haven't referred to it.

Scroll up or click the link for my post highlighting your view with which I objected.

Of course, subsequently you decided that it's bad to wear it. That's a good thing, I feel all warm inside :)

oh nos its a nazi :ohmy:
http://www.dhnet.be/pictures_news/art_30909.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

No, he was at a private fancy dress party.

No one should have seen it, a stand up comic does it for the public, I think there is the peverbial nail being hit on teh head :)

Jonno :cool:

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Nothing in his life is private, you and i well know that :dry:

I visited two camps with gaschambers in poland, now musea.

That visit is printed in my memory forever; the pictures shown were too shocking

for words.

I lived with a jewish family for several years.

My "foster"-grandma lost 72 relatives during the war.

I don't give a fuck about some dork Harry.

Anyone wearing a swastika(apart from movies or stageplays) for fun(When it

is used as a Nazisymbol.), should be punishable by law.

And the idea to let this Harry-character visit auswitch, is a good idea.

After he did some time in jail, preferably in very bad conditions.


Let us never say again: Wir haben es nicht gewusst.



yogi

Wearing one of these doesn't necessarily mean that you are a nazi.

It's also about context, hitler was a thief who couldn't even dream up his own symbol, so he had to corrupt something pure.

It's almost comparable to stealing the crucifix, as a symbol.


That's the flipped up thing, many only remember it for the evil deeds the nazis did, so the nazis managed to spit on buddhism. Which isn't nearly as bad as trying to wipe out every follower of judaeism but it's still a crime.


EDit: I blame people who keep wearing it like that harry character did for perpetuating this, they keep churning up emotion like this and adding more negtivity to the symbol in the eyes of the public.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Wearing one of these doesn't necessarily mean that you are a nazi.

It's also about context, hitler was a thief who couldn't even dream up his own symbol, so he had to corrupt something pure.

It's almost comparable to stealing the crucifix, as a symbol.


That's the flipped up thing, many only remember it for the evil deeds the nazis did, so the nazis managed to spit on buddhism. Which isn't nearly as bad as trying to wipe out every follower of judaeism but it's still a crime.

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You are right.

I correct my above statement with the addition:

When it is worn as a Nazisymbol.


Yogi