@vidcc: That pornography would cause harm to an adult viewing it hasn't actually been proven, except in dubious or biased research.
The kind of damage a bullet will do as it enters your brain on the other hand, is indisputable.
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@vidcc: That pornography would cause harm to an adult viewing it hasn't actually been proven, except in dubious or biased research.
The kind of damage a bullet will do as it enters your brain on the other hand, is indisputable.
What keep people who have violent criminal historys and the mentally unstable from owning guns because they might hurt someone with them? That makes sense to me. Would you really want someone who was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon owning an UZI, a Desert Eagle and an Ak-47?Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
And then when someone gets busted for having an illegal, unregistered firearm then you can charge them for posessing an unlicensed firearm. Makes sense to me. :cool:
Of course guns are different from lets say, restricting porno to minors because guns are made to kill people whereas porn just helps kill sperm. :whistling
But seriously people, if a pay child porn site existed then it would get shut down in a week it not less. If it wasent open to the public then it would be just as clandestine as sharing the crap on Freenet.
Teh fook!Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
They could do that anyway with a money order, mailed cash or a postal order to pay for Hawt Latinas - why go to all the unecessary trouble and risk of issuing a card that has to be bought via a third party in the high street when it can all be done quietly via anonymous email (for the dodgy links) and normal mail (for the payment).
I submit that contrary to the sensationalism earlier in the thread, this is no 'new' loophole.
Edit: This is also quite different from your original one card enables you to access thousands of sites - one of them could contain child porn point.
Snny & Arm
Aparently you are unaware of my views on gun ownership.... i believe that guns should only be for military and law enforcement agencies.... and for hunters after rigorous checks and strict enforcement.
I raised it as many that object to pornography altogether... hold to their rights to have guns because they are not "criminals" and shouldn't have their right to have guns removed because "guns don't kill people...people do" and they shouldn't have their rights taken away because of the actions of others...
understand where i am coming from ?
I said the cards could be a way for pedophiles to go undetected in their surfing of illegal porn.
It avoids the risks of using a credit card, of sending money or money order, it grants the convenience of just buying a legitimate card and it provides a legitimate front through which the providers of kiddie porn can expand their business and submit a legitimate tax return at the end of the year.
I never said the cards should not be allowed, just recognized how one could use them to enhance annoymity and reduce risk of swindled money.
The hysteria in the initial article was directed at children buying the cards, NOT the cards themselves. Since we were all in agreement that the shopowners were to blame for letting the kids get them, the focus of the thread drifted away.
Boab made the point of kiddie porn and in thinking it through I thought that it could certainly be used as a slick way to launder money.
How? You may have 10,000 totally legitimate sites. Only a couple are fronts for the pedophile porn providers to launder their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Frank may like to look at hot latinas and likes the fact that he is not giving out his credit card information. He is totally oblvious to any sort of illegal porn.
Where do you think I have changed anything? Perhaps as the thread has progressed I have sort of honed my vision on how this would actually run, but the concept of laundering money is unchanged.
Hobbes.
That is a world away from the money laundering scheme.
You've decided against your original, incorrect, assertions and decided on a much less sensational standpoint. I'm okay with that, even if the money laundering idea doesn't make sense as it involves another step rather than just mailing the payment direct.
However, these cards don't make it easier to propagate or access child pornography - the converse to this, which was stated earlier, is the point I took issue with.
With that, I'm off to the pub :D
Wow! Neighbourhood watch. That will ease parents minds everywhere.. :(Quote:
The eCards on this page were designed by ********* a lady who knows the pain of living with a pornography addicted spouse, and the hope that comes from seeing a spouse set free from the addiction. The cards were created using *****'s own original photography and verses. They are available exclusively on this site. All cards on this page are copyright © 2001, 2002, 2003 by ***********. While these cards are free to anyone who wishes to use them to minister to a family member or friend, they are not to be posted to another website under any condition without the express written permission of the copyright holders. If any of these cards are seen on any other web site, with or without charge, please notify us immediately.
P.S. could Roy Carroll not have saved that ball and also saved us a lot of hassle. :lol:
If everyone wanted to send money through the mail then the cards would never have come to exist, right. Money orders are a pain. The porn card is overall less risky and more convenient than either cash or money order.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
How does allowing a card which allows sellers a legimate front and users annonymity decrease child porn distribution.
I have not wavered one bit from my initial post and I have clearly illustrated my point and I cannot recall anything "sensationalistic" about any comments I have made.
I'm off to the track, but the pub sounds more appealing :lol:
I reckon so, but then you could have just said so in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
They are a bunch of hypocrites if they hold those views, you are right about that.
the whole post was about banning things because of irresponsible actions of others, i didn't think it needed to be made even more long windedQuote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
For once I think you could have done just that, 'cos the way I read the gun-control post was: "Banning useful stuff 'cos ppl might use it to do evil is bad, m'kay?"
But then I didn't remember reading any of your other posts on that subject and thus didn't have the right context to work from, possibly I blocked them out 'cos of the long-windedness :unsure:
It's been a long time since we debated gun control......Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
this needs some wind
http://hometown.aol.com/phidragons/i...%20website.jpg
The reason I never chimed in after my initial post was because your post pretty much wrapped it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
I can't believe this thread went 6 pages. :blink:
Unless the cards are debit cards, which no one brought up, then the cards will only access specific sites that are in league with the cards.
Think about the dynamic of a card that's used on the internet. It won't have a magnetic strip because there's nothing to swipe.
It's probably just a username and password linked to a certain amount of time from activation.
I can't remember but whoever said that the cards would access ALL porn is nutso (unless it's the debit card). If that's the case, I could buy a game at Gamespot with it too. :dry:
I was the original member who said that a loophole could be created. Read my last post. The makers of one of these cards seems to think that they could be used for other purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
As for being Nutso. I studied criminal law for two years. How much have you studied? If you dont think like them you wont beat them.
I also find it very disquieting the amount of members that seem to jump to the defence of something that creates anominity for something you should be open about.
What's that?
An echo?
:)
What's Margarine got to do with it? Come to think of it I wont go in to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
:lol:
Hmm, those of us who've been known at look at pornography should start signing at those sites with their names then? And hope they won't sell information about it to a third party or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
What some of us were defending was the right to look at pornography without having it registered, not the right to look at child pornography.
Meh, privacy is overrated anyway
Huh, what loophole?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
The cards look like smart marketing to me.
If I go to a porn site what gives you the right to know who I am?
Your criminal law background has shit to do with this thread. The vendors are basically selling passwords.
You could have brought up the fact that porn sites use a verification system (credit card) to weed out underage folk. Your child porn doohicky holds no water.
What other purposes could they be used for?
Explain for the uneducated. :dry:
Sorry Snny I meant anominity at home etc. Postal Orders Etc can create the other anominity. Is there not another word we can use. I find it difficult spelling anonimity. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
So has anyone figured out if these cards (which are only sold by one company) actually link to just one site or loads of sites?
Nobody actually knows for sure how these cards work, so we can't really know how open to abuse they are.
For instance, if the same company owns all the sites that the cards are used for then what's the problem?:unsure:
I think SnnY got what you said. He wasn't talking about porn in a museum. :dry:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
They would logically have to, barring it being a Visa debit card or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Withcheese
Again, we don't swipe cards at our computers to access sites.
Username *******
Password *******
Snny is one of the most literate, if not the most, fellows on this forum, please let him answer for himself. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
@Cheese! I think they are sold by more than one company. The company I quoted above is company to help people addicted to pornography. That I can understand. But as you can see they are worried about misuse.
With postal orders the company taking the order will have a record of exactly what you ordered.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
Assuming this card isn't limited to one thing and one thing only, you'd have to possibility to legally watch whatever is on offer without having it registered exactly what you are looking at.
That way people who are for some reason ashamed of their preferences are free to look at what they desire without it being registered anywhere exactly what they are looking at.
And I'm not talking about pedophiles, but rather repressed people who find their sexuality shameful for some reason.
Yes, but in the UK they would not know who you were, only where you bought the Postal Order.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Oh, I stand corrected then. :unsure:
And the people where you bought it wouldn't know what the postal order was for?
No. It is only stamped with the date and the Post Office where issued. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Actually(I know, its not :cool: ) if it is a small amount, in some cases, you can send postage stamps to cover the cost(UK).
Uhm, maybe it's 'cos it's late, but I have trouble following this.
So you pay for something at the post office, and it gets sent to you from whatever company you've ordered it from, and all the while no one but you knows what you ordered?
How do they know what to send you, or what you should pay?
No in that case you would send your name and address. :lol: But in the case of paying for internet 'services' I think they will have a system of acknowledgement. Like charging your phone bill. BT pays the company, your name and address does not come into it. The resposibility for recovery of the money lies with BT. Not the Internet company. This is getting more and more complicated. I suppose the Postal Order would work the same way as the cards but with 'complete' anominity once a system of passwords was set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
That was worth more than one post. :rolleyes:
Me too, bubi. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by manker
:w00t: porn cards :w00t:
This is terribly exciting. ^
Fresh for snny
Who would buy a card?
Anyone who either doesn't trust giving out his credit card number or doesn't want his wife to ask him about a mysterious entry on the credit card bill.
So privacy is a key issue for our target audience.
So I would envision it as a company that manages the running of the business end, financed by the adult websites that want to participate in the "card system".
The homepage would contain all sites subscribing.
You could go to the store, place your money in a machine (that is in an 18 and up area, like a liquor store) and it would electronically credit you 20 dollars to the homepage. You would be given a machine generated id and passcode which would be printed on a simple card.
Once back at home you access the homepage, entering your unique login, and you now can click on any link on the site. This could be in the 10's of thousands, potentially. The different websites get a prorated fee based on the time spent at each site.
This way you can fulfill all your porn fantasies and you have complete anonymity.
Where is Robert5000, he may want in on this.
Further to my earlier post, Snny. When you send a Postal Order you keep a stub with all the details etc. So if you arrange via a password system to send a Postal Order you still have proof that you sent this company money. So if they tried to 'diddle' you the number of the Postal Order can be traced to who cashed it. That would cancel the anonimity of course. But it would also 'damage' the credibility of the internet company. :cool:
I think its time I had a drink too. :lol: :lol:
@bob: It's probably for the best. :unsure:
@hobbes, I reckon that might be a few years from now, from what I understand it's only a relatively small scale operation right now, and thus it won't be that much room to hide something illegal from whoever monitors the operation. :unsure:
But when it comes to internet and pornography the development may well be very fast, what with the demand.
At least I assume there is a considerable demand for internet pornography as there's so much of it, and one wonders how the multitude of sites could all survive of no one was willing to pay.
Trouble is. Drink and watching pornography dont go together. It all gets spilled. :(
Yes.
This makes simple sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
Now hobbes, can you explain what boab is talking about?
Since I don't have the years he has in the criminal field, I am befuddled. :huh:
@SnnY - Pornography is the biggest money maker on the internet.
Well, I don't think, as Boab suggests, that we can make the cards illegal just because someone might use them to support his "illegal website".Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Boab, like myself, have looked at this from the perspective of how someone could use these cards to finance their child pornography. For instance, if I went to a kiddie porn site and signed up with my credit card, any FBI raid on the place would lead them to my doorstep. If I can access the site annonymously, using the appropriate proxys, I can remain hidden from the FBI as they have no way to track me (no credit card #).
The key is how to pay the porn site owner. Well you do so by paying for it at their legimate site using a porn card. Once you have credited their legit site, they allow to access a private site that is completely separate from the card system.
How will they learn about these hidden sites? I don't know, probably however they do it now. Little private chatroom on the internet or something.
One could just send the money, but gosh, it got lost again. And they know, even if they do this, you'll still be coming back.
The porn card is a great way to launder money, view kiddie porn under an extra layer of security and convenience and make the website owners W-2* look legit at the years end.
To answer your question, I think Boabs experience in criminology made him attempt to figure out how "bad guys" could use this to their advantage. BY knowing how to think like they do, he can anticipate problems which may arise and develop a plan to tackle them.
*A W-2 is a yearly earnings statement for income tax purposes- for those not in the USA.