I dont have any need to buy a gun.
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I dont have any need to buy a gun.
I stand corrected :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I simply cannot add in any significant way to SnnY's excellently presented points as we're on the same page. To presume that you're going to be better in a pressurized situation than a criminal is arrogance in the extreme and I'll give that notion no credence whatsoever.
I take it the hierarchy wrt to shooting folk is Navy Seals, then j2 and Busyman (I've written that as a tie but if that's not acceptable to either then a paintball dual to the emulsion death should separate them and be highly entertaining into the bargain) - and lastly criminals.
The assertion that the US has more idiots than the UK => more homes get burgled is also complete nonsense. When did this happen, I thought our own idiot rate was bad enough but you mean to say there is a country with an even higher proportion of imbeciles.
You get a :lol: for that, j2.
I don't need a gun to protect my home. I have Keiron Dyer and Lee Bowyer as my security.:glare:
;) y i own a fewQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
As with 99.999% of UK residents I do not own a gun. Can't say it is something that really ever crosses my mind. I think it would be fair to say I have never felt the desire or need for one. On the whole, I believe this to be a good thing and long may it continue.
Many of the you folks are fishing on shit you know nothing about.
1. A home with merely a sign in the yard saying it has an alarm is less likely to get burglarized. Period. If one of you UK folks move here and decide against putting an alarm in you are more likely get your shit taken than one with an alarm. This is not arguable. :dry:
2. I do not have a problem "screwing up" when it comes to gun locks. You come home from the range, you put the fucking lock on. I don't even keep a clip in and no bullet in chamber. You are fishing merely to satisfy you're ill conceived points.
3. Most of these knuckleheads are shit at shooting. I know since I have hung around them for years (actually was one when I was younger). I have no problem with many of you not wanting to be "held in the clutches" of such mentality. At the same time since you know shit about it, your statements hold as much water as a sieve.
4. There are only 2 points that I agree on with "me UK mites". If a person is willing to target someone regardless of an alarm or owner having a gun then he is packing anyway. If he thinks the owner has a gun then he more likely to shoot if he knows it going in. However, a burglar is just that and is easily scared away and. FFS even a murderer doesn't want to go through alot of shit to kill you. Unarmed folks get killed ALL THE TIME (sometimes in their sleep) so even you guy's liberal passive point holds little water (see my previous home invasion reference).
The other point I agree on is that gun shows should have background checks.
Someone breaks in my house, the police are called. They cut the line, the police are notified.
Where's the "clutch of oppression".
Many of you are pretty passive when it comes to protecting your family. You place your faith in "the burglar most likely won't hurt me" and it sounds rather bitchy. (also stop watching so much TV. we are not all the security guard that is on the floor during a bank robbery and tries to be a hero.)
This may be due to your crime rate over in the UK. However, we have a much higher rate and it is not due to folks merely protecting their homes. :dry: Many of you have honed in on a very miniscule point that has no validity.
Gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994 (I'm sure there are probably more up to date figures, but I think this illustrates the point):
United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Republic of Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05
The general trend is more or less in line with rates of gun ownership.
I think I'll stick to a simple "No thanks".
This is not surprising. :dry:Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
well said as always @busy i love readin your post ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
i don't own a gun because umm...there's almost no practical use for them in this century. 90-something percent of us don't need to hunt in order to obtain food, so other than some crap sport of shooting at paper targets or clay discs, there's no need for an ordinary citizen to own one.
not that i think they should be done away with completely either.
in some US states, citizens are allowed to carry a concealed weapon, providing they pass thorough background checks and proficiency training, and also pay a fee (i think it's anually here)
If every individual who wished to own a gun had to meet these same stringent requirements, we'd probably be a lot better off.
I think here you are looking at yourself whereas the posters are looking at the news.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
YOU may be a sensible person and take all the sensible steps needed to be a responsible gun owner and parent. But that's not what the world sees on the news. They see the results of the irresponsible gun owners, sadly all too often, and the trouble is that innocent bystanders are paying a heavy price.
It would be nice to not only have strictly enforced laws, but perhaps a stupidity test as well :(
This may be the real issue here. People only know what they see on the news. The news is pretty much curved on the particular area you live in. You only see what they want you to see :ph34r:Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Statistics don't lie, Rob.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I'm not basing my views on anything other than common sense, if more people have guns, more people will get shot.
yeah i hate it when the news twist stuff too...
Quote:
United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Yes, well done, hooray for you. But again, the sign isn't a gun. Whether you have a sign or an alarm or neither, isn't the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Well done on that too, however, this has no bearing on how you'll handle the gun when you are about to use it against a burglar.Quote:
2. I do not have a problem "screwing up" when it comes to gun locks. You come home from the range, you put the fucking lock on. I don't even keep a clip in and no bullet in chamber. You are fishing merely to satisfy you're ill conceived points.
Gun lock or not, burglars may still pick a time when you are drunk, or something else. Which means that you may still shoot yourself in the foot when the times comes.
So you've hung around with a few burglars :blink: Again, hooray for you. however, this doesn't mean that you can say with absolute certainty that a majority of all burglars in the US are bound to act in a certain manner.Quote:
3. Most of these knuckleheads are shit at shooting. I know since I have hung around them for years (actually was one when I was younger). I have no problem with many of you not wanting to be "held in the clutches" of such mentality. At the same time since you know shit about it, your statements hold as much water as a sieve.
If one of your old pals decides to break into your home, I guess you are safe though.
I've been wondering about these statements about them being bad shots, I mean, ok if your house is huge and there's a bit of distance between you, but it will probably be a matter of who shoots first in an average size home. It ain't hard hitting someone six feet away, or something similar.
Have you got any statistics at all to prove that your hypothetical burglars are more likely than not to be going to go into your house with the intention of killing you?Quote:
4. There are only 2 points that I agree on with "me UK mites". If a person is willing to target someone regardless of an alarm or owner having a gun then he is packing anyway. If he thinks the owner has a gun then he more likely to shoot if he knows it going in. However, a burglar is just that and is easily scared away and. FFS even a murderer doesn't want to go through alot of shit to kill you. Unarmed folks get killed ALL THE TIME (sometimes in their sleep) so even you guy's liberal passive point holds little water (see my previous home invasion reference).
The other point I agree on is that gun shows should have background checks.
If someone really wanted to kill you, your gun would probably not be an issue anyway. They'd get you when you were sleeping or something.
While I don't live in the UK, my situation is very similar. We just don't have many guns in this country, period. Nor is our crime-rate as high, why this is so I don't know. What I can say is that you probably aren't the only one to feel safer with a gun, it's bound to lend a lot of people some extra confidence, no matter which side of the law they are currently on.Quote:
Someone breaks in my house, the police are called. They cut the line, the police are notified.
Where's the "clutch of oppression".
Many of you are pretty passive when it comes to protecting your family. You place your faith in "the burglar most likely won't hurt me" and it sounds rather bitchy. (also stop watching so much TV. we are not all the security guard that is on the floor during a bank robbery and tries to be a hero.)
This may be due to your crime rate over in the UK. However, we have a much higher rate and it is not due to folks merely protecting their homes. :dry: Many of you have honed in on a very miniscule point that has no validity.
In most cases, and this is according to unbiased statistics, burglaries in my part of the world take place when the victim isn't at home. If I did have a gun in my home it might well be part of what was stolen while I wasn't at home. A burglar is also more likely than not to flee the site if I do get home while he or she is still there. Normal, sane people aren't out to kill other people, and they don't desire confrontation if they can avoid it. Violence only means an extended period in prison if you get caught.
We get alarms just as you do, and we sometimes put up signs, but again, this has nothing to do with owning a gun.
I fail to see how common sense can be proclaimed to be ill-concieved, what you are stating sounds more like belief and faith than facts, I've yet to see anyone showing me any concrete proof of the benefits of everyone having guns readily available.
I'm far less likely to get killed here than over there, this is a fact, based on numbers.
Well I hardly think anyone would be interested in "non news" such as "today nobody was shot"....although it would be nice if it could actually happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I don't think that the news is selective other than the VAST majority of gun crime and "accidents" only gets reported on local news outlets and doesn't get any airtime on national and international media unless it's the big story such as columbine.
If every incident was reported then I believe the anti gun ownership side would be more vocal.
@all
I will not allow my children to play in friends houses that have guns. I will not allow guns on my property. I will not allow my children to become a statistic relating to a "tragic accident"
The USA will never give up its guns, it's an attitude thing. For this we have to accept death and injury in increasing amounts. Every day the amount of guns increases and every day the amount of gun related incidents increases.
And the wheel goes round and round.
Wh said it was non - news ? They have a facination with sex crimes here, and you can bet when one happens, its reported. on the flip-side, I saw no less than 12 Sheriffs cruisers and a helicopter just to the south of the plant I work in Friday night, not one word on the news.
btw guys, after the guns, do we get rid of the knives too ? :unsure:
knives designed to kill people, sure
Knives and guns aren't the same thing, knives are tools, guns are weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
Both can kill, but a gun requires less effort and proximity to do so.
Unless you have laws for it already, it probably wouldn't hurt to ban long blades (2"+) in public places tho'.
Seriously, there are very, very few accidental shooting here. I wish the lot of you could come here and teach defensive driving, because thats and important issue in my community. I can promise you this, On the day I don't come home, it will be because somebody caused an accident with their car, not because I was shot :(
Dunno' where to draw the line between what's accidental and what's not. :unsure:
"I was cleaning my gun and shot my nuts off", is probably accidental any way look at it. Unless it's evolution, or divine providence. :unsure:
But what do you call "I pointed my gun at the burglar to scare him, and I accidentally shot his face off"?
Justice :naughty:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
whether its accidental or not killing someone with a gun is too easy. i agree with you on driving though, here in the UK it's rediculous. i reckon it's cos it's so easy to get a license :dry: however that makes no difference to gun deaths
Oh, all right :unsure: ( :lol: )Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
The free doughnut event was advertised enough............ surely :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
Then baseball bats, cars, stones.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Rperry
I don't really give any weight to the direction of that point, although i was waiting for it to be raised.
It is too late to eliminate our gun problem. No law will ever stop criminal use of guns. But we can do something about the "accidental" side.
I agree with you on that but it's a different issue and we can't trade one issue by saying another is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I admire your view on guns, I can only say I don't agree. Florida is a right to carry state ( you must have a clean record, and go through a firearms class) and it does seem to curve some of the problems other states have. Its not perfect, what ever is ?Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
This is close to what I would like to see, I would like zero guns but lets be realistic. I don't see any way of banning guns but I would like to see tougher standards and enforcement of those standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I can't agree with carrying guns in public, but I do give the idea of having them in ones home if one wishes, assuming certain safety standards are met.
I would like not only background checks but also compulsory training to at least the minimum law enforcement standard. I would like to see attitude standards as part of it as well. A cadet would be weeded out and expelled if he didn't have the right attitude and I would like that to apply in the training and assessment procedure.
If groups like the NRA truly believe that guns don't kill people, people kill people they would support such sensible training for these deadly items.
Well you are not the only one posting. Apparently me having an alarm or privacy fence is being "in the grip of oppression".Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
When you drive what's to say you aren't shit at handling a car (and put more people in danger than me and my gun that take out so sparingly). You probably drive ten time more often than I use my gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
You have nunch-chuckas. What's to say you aren't shit at that too and bust yourself in the eye. You are fishing once again.
I don't get drunk at home. Either way, fishing expedition.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
No shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
...but they aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Fishing again. This is not the movies. You don't go investigating. When having a gun it's not always wise to shoot. Example..Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
At work I missed being caught up in a bank robbery by 10 minutes (I was talking to a female I knew and she held me up). The guard from the armored truck went in but a gentleman walked in behind him with flower box in his hand. The robber pulled out a shotgun and the guard drew his weapon and shot the robber. You would think that was heroic but it wasn't whole story. Some of the guard's shot missed the robber and went clear across McPherson Square and into a mult tenant building a block away. McPherson Square is basically a park in the middle of downtown DC and it's one full square block. People go there to feed pigeons, read a book, bums beg for money (or sleep), etc. Luckily no one was killed.
The robber put many lives in danger and by his own, training should have given up the money. However....you can't say that the robber would not have blown away the guard anyway. He might have very saved his own skin.
No do you? Gotta point? I have a gun for just in case shit and not to blow away any person I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
No shit. They could get me as I walk out my front door. Again, gotta point?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Uh huh. I also would safer in combat with a tank versus a jeep. Gotta point?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Stating the obvious.....Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Then the alarm post wasn't for you or I would have quoted just you or did a @SnnY shit doohicky.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
I wouldn't want everyone having guns readily available. That's part of the problem. You've got fathers that don't lock their shit up, and I'm not talking about they forgot, I'm talking about not locking it up and allowing their sons to play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
No shit....we have a higher crime rate. :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
The problem with many of you guys conclusions is those numbers is numbers is that correlation does not equal cause and effect.
You can't necessarily group me, RP, j2, and buju in with criminals (or each other). I wouldn't bring my guns to my new house until I had gun locks (4 year-old now present). Someone else might have done it anyway but I happen to be paranoid about a child dying over some "I forgot" bullshit.
I would hope I wouldn't be grouped with criminals :ohmy: I make a habit out of not taking what doesn't belong to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
I do like Vidcc's Idea of more training though. Anything that can help is a good thing, and can only make the situation better. I don't think they should only be allowed in the home though. Remember, I have already stated things are different according to where you live. Being I live in a tourist area, I would be more likely to have a problem in public, than in my own home.
I don't drive at all atm. But if I did the car would still be a tool for transport, not a deadly weapon. Cars are necessary for getting from one point to another, guns aren't. It's not a valid parallell, as they are totally different animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
No, I don't, but even if I did, and did bust myself in the eye, it still doesn't compare with owning a gun. Accidentally discharge that and you might take someone out at the other side of the street, bash yourself with a nun-chuck in the eye, and you get a black eye.Quote:
You have nunch-chuckas. What's to say you aren't shit at that too and bust yourself in the eye. You are fishing once again.
Not sure I wanna' comment on that one. But I can say this, you might not get drunk at home, but I'm pretty sure you've gone home drunk at some point in your life.Quote:
I don't get drunk at home. Either way, fishing expedition.
The point tho', was that no one is perfect, at some point in your life you are bound to be performing below par when it comes to perception and coordination (you might have a fever, or be eating pain-killers), not to mention judgement-wise, if you do have a gun in the house, and you get the notion to use it, that's when an accident is more likely to happen.
This is a fact, and a point, hope you can grasp the concept.
His occupation includes handling a gun, he's not carrying that gun around 24/7. At the very least he's weeks, not to say months of basic training with regards to handling assailants as well as discharging firearms ahead of you.Quote:
Fishing again. This is not the movies. You don't go investigating. When having a gun it's not always wise to shoot. Example..
At work I missed being caught up in a bank robbery by 10 minutes (I was talking to a female I knew and she held me up). The guard from the armored truck went in but a gentleman walked in behind him with flower box in his hand. The robber pulled out a shotgun and the guard drew his weapon and shot the robber. You would think that was heroic but it wasn't whole story. Some of the guard's shot missed the robber and went clear across McPherson Square and into a mult tenant building a block away. McPherson Square is basically a park in the middle of downtown DC and it's one full square block. People go there to feed pigeons, read a book, bums beg for money (or sleep), etc. Luckily no one was killed.
The robber put many lives in danger and by his own, training should have given up the money. However....you can't say that the robber would not have blown away the guard anyway. He might have very saved his own skin.
If there's a day when he can't perform, he won't go to work. Anyone who attacks him at work is going to go after him when he's alert, awake, sober and so forth.
Someone who gets robbed in the middle of the night doesn't have that luxury.
Of course you don't go looking for trouble, no more than the guard, but that doesn't mean that you won't get caught off guard, or that you'll have time prepare yourself for them in the best possible place you can think of.
Yeah, the point is that you seem to assume that they are out to get you, if they aren't and you act in a threatening manner, then they might feel the need to take you out tho'. Scared or nervous people are dangerous people.Quote:
No do you? Gotta point? I have a gun for just in case shit and not to blow any person I can.
Yeah, most likely THEY AREN'T OUT TO KILL YOU, OK?Quote:
No shit. They could get me as I walk out my front door. Again, gotta point?
If no one is scared 'cos everyone is packing, then nobody wins.Quote:
Uh huh. I also would safer in combat with a tank versus a jeep. Gotta point?
If it's so obvious, why do you sound as if you expect them to break into your home and try to kill you?Quote:
Stating the obvious.....
I know it wasn't aimed at me specifically.Quote:
Then the alarm post wasn't for you or I would have quoted just you or did a @SnnY shit doohicky.
But still, this topic is about guns, and the fact that you feel the need to have every possible safeguard I'd use, and then some, even a gun, merits comment.
I think the original comment was intended to be read just so, no one thinks it's odd that you want alarms, or fences. It's the fact that you've got safeguard upon safeguard, with a gun on top, that seems strange.
That implies a whole lot more fear than I need to feel.
I'm with you there. I also think it's admirable that you've taken those precautions you have.Quote:
I wouldn't want everyone having guns readily available. That's part of the problem. You've got fathers that don't lock their shit up, and I'm not talking about they forgot, I'm talking about not locking it up and allowing their sons to play them.
It's the acceptance of guns as something necessary I've got issues with. I'd rather work from the assumption that any one who burglarizes me will do so when I'm not home. I think the chance of you needing the gun is smaller than the risk of an accident. but that's just the way I'd play the odds.
That's the key to this entire argument I think, how we'd play the odds.
Nor is it possible to dismiss all accidental shootings as the actions of idiots, even those who take every precaution can make mistakes.Quote:
No shit....we have a higher crime rate. :blink:
The problem with many of you guys conclusions is those numbers is numbers is that correlation does not equal cause and effect.
You can't necessarily group me, RP, j2, and buju in with criminals (or each other). I wouldn't bring my guns to my new house until I had gun locks (4 year-old now present). Someone else might have done it anyway but I happen to be paranoid about a child dying over some "I forgot" bullshit.
It's just something that happens, there's no such thing as a perfect human being, and nor is there such a thing as a person that doesn't make the occasional mistake.
However, the paranoia is good, it's the "I don't make mistakes" I've got problems with. That seems overconfident.
Having said that, if someone has to have a gun, I'd much prefer it to be only you and not capt. azztard, especially if I had to live nearby.
And lastly, fishing implies implausibility, nothing of what I have said is beyond the realm of possibility. Asking for a point, or dismissing something as fishing fills no purpose, it's sort of the same thing as saying you don't have an answer, IMO.
And with that "in public" part my concerns increase infinitely and why I would want as the very minimum standard the same standard law enforcement officers have to go through. This not only includes gun handling but also tough training to cope with hostile situations in a professional manner and not just a vigilante manner. I would also expect any "civilian" that discharged their weapon in public to be tried for murder if they hit and killed a bystander.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I may seem to be a hard lined anti gun activist but this is just appearance. My concerns are directed at the "stupid" part of our laws coupled with the many people that have either a gung ho "dirty harry wannabe" attitude or those that only have heads to stop the rain going down their necks...or worse still... both.
There are people that can quite safely have guns and act responsibly ...unfortunately there is a significant amount of people that don't fit this description. :(
It's very valid. People fuck others up with negligent driving more than there are accidental shooting deaths whether or not the car was intended as a weapon. I use a gun to protect my family when and if that ever comes up and yet you haved focused on miniscule point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
With a gun, I might also save my life and families life. We can might all day long. This is why I said you are fishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Uh huh and drunk driving deaths exceed accidental shootings......... :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Listen to yourself. You are mighting like crazy now. I might have a fever? Get a grip. I could point out many facts about driving deaths and say we should outlaw cars. :blink: "You might be drowsy coming home and doze off and hit a family of 4." :ermm:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
You apparently missed the point. The guard fucked up but again did he? He was trained yet endangered the lives of people in a multi-tenant building and a park?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Riiiight they just want to take my stuff....most likely. What about when I don't have a "most likely" burglar? I have made this point over and over about a just in case situation yet you seem to miss it conveniently.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Uh yeah...whatever that means. It sounds like a goes without saying moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
For nth time...Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
You can pussy up and be that one instance that the burglar blows you away 'cause he wants to flex. Since you are much into stats and googling, explain why when many people get carjacked they get shot anyway when the victim was giving up their keys. You would love to say that they put up a struggle but I know differently. People kill just because sometimes even when taking your shit. Children are killed in their beds...what threat were they?
Your logic doesn't work here. I tell you that I wouldn't go down to cap the burglar and conveniently "forget" that point to cover yours.
So be it. If the situation ever arose that someone is coming to your children's bedroom then you sit on the fence and STFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
I'M A JUST IN CASE KINDA GUY. :dry:
The problem with your odds is that when your number comes up, your odds are near 0. When mine comes up, I actually have a chance (and so does my kid).Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
I bet most accidental shootings are from the actions of idiots. I have never fallen off a telephone pole. Can't say that I won't but I have a certain process for climbing and don't deviate. It is ingrained and so is my handling of a gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
No actually fishing implies plausibilty with remote validity. It implies many "ifs" and "buts" no matter what another's answer may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Remember your "fever" reference? :lol: :lol: "Hey I could step on thumb tack or a spider could bite me and threaten my concentration."
Fishing... :dry:
You don't sound anywhere near like a hard-lined gun activist. Your points are valid but it's nothing I haven't heard before.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
A hard-lined gun activist would sue gunmakers for shooting deaths. It reminds me of 9/11 victims families suing the owners of the WTC. A hard-lined gun activist would remove the ability to buy guns without considering that criminals don't "buy" guns.
I would make gun owners responsible for deaths committed with their guns in most circumstances. Maybe they'll make sure to keep them locked up.
It is not a minuscule point. Guns are lethal with the intention of being so. Cars aren't, we need cars to lead life the way we do. We don't need guns. You might live your life without ever having your house broken into, a majority of all people do just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
You buy a gun on the off-chance that you might, just possibly, need it one day. And you are complaining about my "mights"? :blink:
Besides, logic dictates that cars would cause more deaths as they are used way more frequently than guns. For every bullet fired in your country, a car has rolled miles upon miles. At least they have a function other than causing harm.
Sure, you might do that, but on the other hand it's always in your home, a potential and highly substantial risk.Quote:
With a gun, I might also save my life and families life. We can might all day long. This is why I said you are fishing.
Yeah they do, but that doesn't mean the "lesser" risk doesn't exist.Quote:
Uh huh and drunk driving deaths exceed accidental shootings......... :lol: :lol:
I do believe we are both doing it if so.Quote:
Listen to yourself. You are mighting like crazy now. I might have a fever? Get a grip. I could point out many facts about driving deaths and say we should outlaw cars. :blink: "You might be drowsy coming home and doze off and hit a family of 4." :ermm:
The thing is that risks exist even if we don't want them to. Cars aren't guns, risks involved with one doesn't have any bearing on risks involved with using another.
No you missed the point, he screwed up, and this with far more training than you have.Quote:
You apparently missed the point. The guard fucked up but again did he? He was trained yet endangered the lives of people in a multi-tenant building and a park?
And this when it was pretty much guaranteed that his mind, perception and judgement were in no way impaired.
True, you might not, but then again you might surprise an armed burglar with no intention of harming you, until he sees your gun.Quote:
Riiiight they just want to take my stuff....most likely. What about when I don't have a "most likely" burglar? I have made this point over and over about a just in case situation yet you seem to miss it conveniently.
If he wants to hurt you, those nice signs of yours have tipped him off anyway, if he really wants to get to you no amount of precautions on your part are going to stop him, and maybe a few of his closest friends from visiting.
Yeah, if everyone owns a gun, no one is more safe than if nobody did.Quote:
Uh yeah...whatever that means. It sounds like a goes without saying moment.
I fail to see how not living in fear is equal to "pussying up".Quote:
For nth time...
You can pussy up and be that one instance that the burglar blows you away 'cause he wants to flex. Since you are much into stats and googling, explain why when many people get carjacked they get shot anyway when the victim was giving up their keys. You would love to say that they put up a struggle but I know differently. People kill just because sometimes even when taking your shit. Children are killed in their beds...what threat were they?
Your logic doesn't work here. I tell you that I wouldn't go down to cap the burglar and conveniently "forget" that point to cover yours.
Given the situation in the US where everyone is packing, that might be the only way to be sure of conducting a successful carjack.
But if so many people own weapons over there, have a go at explaining why so many people get shot during carjacks even though they have guns.
If I was mad enough to try that in the US, I'd sure as hell go in firing, and I'd make sure I was doing it before you realised I was about to try it too.
I reckon those people would get popped, gun or not.
I've noticed.Quote:
So be it. If the situation ever arose that someone is coming to your children's bedroom then you sit on the fence and STFU.
I'M A JUST IN CASE KINDA GUY. :dry:
We look at risk differently. I'm not taking responsiblity of accidently shooting someone, or getting someone shot because of something I do, you'll point your gun at them and hope for the best.
Neither way is guaranteed to succeed.
Unless it happens because you made a mistake that could have been avoided had you not held a gun.Quote:
The problem with your odds is that when your number comes up, your odds are near 0. When mine comes up, I actually have a chance (and so does my kid).
Just like car-accidents and plane-crashes, accidental shootings sometimes happen to perfectly ordinary people.Quote:
I bet accidental shootings are from the actions of idiots. I have never fallen off a telephone pole. Can't say that I won't but I have a certain process for climbing and don't deviate. It is ingrained and so is my handling of a gun.
But, yes, you are less likely to shoot yourself or someone else, than an idiot with a gun.
No, it implies that something lacks validity. The implication was that my arguments lacked a foundation, and that I was grasping for straws.Quote:
No actually fishing implies plausibilty with remote validity. It implies many "ifs" and "buts" no matter what another's answer may be.
Remember your "fever" reference? :lol: :lol: "Hey I could step on thumb tack or a spider could bite me and threaten my concentration."
Fishing... :dry:
As in the case of the possibility of you having a fever, my points are perfectly valid, and possible. People frequently suffer from illness, you know. Whereas your proposed, equally valid in your opinion :blink: , scenario is far less likely.
Unless you are some kind of extra special super-mutant who can't get ill, of course.
I'll try and give this a response it deserves, later on. I fear I have to drop this now, however, as I too have things to do, incredible as it may seem. :D
Thanks for realizing that you might not have been at your most diplomatic tho'.
Nor have I probably, today.
Well you are grasping at straws. Saying that I can a fever and then relate it to handling a gun on the very oft chance they would happen at the same time and then to further that say that it will affect judgement is....fishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
I tell you I handle my gun rarely yet because you just don't like guns, find any remote reason to say it's a bad thing to have one. This could done with ANYTHING.
Further prove as to the "you don't know what you are talking about" department is that not everyone is packing. You even conveniently added the carjackers kill people because everyone has a gun. :lol: :lol:
I know that people get shot simply because some robbers think it's easier to have no one screaming and moving around and just take what they want.
Btw using the word might on my part directly correlates to my reason for owning a gun. Yours is a fishing expedition.
Logic dictates that my owning a gun could save my life. Having it my house is not a risk since it is locked. It is loaded at the gun range and unloaded before I leave there.
Your views of America are born out of ignorance. I couldn't claim to know of your area having not been there. This is not Beirut.
Watch F9/11 again or something. Gun activists focus on those that improperly hande guns to prove a point and ignore those with proper handling. You got me mixed up son.
Busyman = [B][O][T] ??? :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bustyman
busy has a gun but no ammo? a sure fire way to get yourself shot i'd say :rolleyes:
guns have no place in modern society, so it is possible to live with no guns and then there would be no improper use of them.Quote:
Watch F9/11 again or something. Gun activists focus on those that improperly handle guns to prove a point and ignore those with proper handling. You got me mixed up son.
i started reading this page backwards and got bored there, please to be not spouting meaningless drivel :)