New Evolution spat in U.S. schools goes to court

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Apparently you are not sufficiently impressed by the terrorist acts which have occurred on our soil to suffer any additional security at all,

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Oh yeah, that's right, our government's heightened response to catastrophe.

Can you say Katrina?

Probably not, sorry, you are the victim of 50 years of the liberally warped US education system, right?

How many of our Gitmo detainees have been tried and convicted?
Um right...that would be zero.

Oh yeah, the Patriot Act and Homeland Security...raving successes.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

A few things, then:

As your google notes, the document has nothing in it about "separation".

This part-

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

...doesn't set the table for what is currently taking place anent Christianity, and that part I've highlighted is a freedom, not a restriction.

The entire reason for the inclusion of any statement inclusive of both religion and government was to short-circuit any attempt by the government to establish a church on it's own behalf, AS HAD BEEN DONE IN ENGLAND.

The further intent of the language was to forestall any attempt by the government to infringe upon the religious practices of it's citizens, END OF STORY.

Jefferson's remarks were perfectly in line with this intent, as they meant that government was to be prevented by this "wall" from interfering in the free practice of religion, not the other way around, and the sum total of these wordings were an effort to avoid the religious persecution and strictures suffered under the Church of England; the source and progenitor of your wall.

There is an inherent recognition that government policy may be informed by religion, but is not beholden to it.

That is the sum total of original intent, and nothing more has ever been required, to this day.

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I view it differently. you ignore the "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion" which is separation.

But just what is taking place anent Christianity? Are churches being closed? Are christians being fed to the lions? What has placing the ten commandments in a court got to do with worship? is a court a place of worship? is it a christian temple?
The constitution is a secular document. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof allows you to practice your religion, it doesn't say force others to study or follow your religion.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

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Originally Posted by fkdup74

ummm.......vid.......sorry dude, but it's the liberals doing that
the liberals have taken just about every liberty away from us, ironic eh?

-freedom of religion
-freedom of speech

in the Bill Of Rights, yet have been restricted by liberal legislation
you can probably get sued just for saying "God" in public by now
(maybe not, but it's soon to come no doubt) :dry:

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Is religion illegal now? I was unaware of that. I guess that would explain the cops arresting all those "religious criminals" as they leave church. :rolleyes:
perhaps you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom to force your religion on others.
I am an athiest and an accused liberal (I don't mind) and I am not trying to do away with your religion. I don't understand what you are talking about, give me an example.
When was freedom of speech removed? There are laws where you cannot incite a riot. for example you can meet in a private venue and hold a KKK meeting but you cannot do it in the street in the middle of Harlem as you would cause a riot.
Give me an example of what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by fkdup74

you can get sued for saying something someone finds "offensive",
even if the words aren't aimed at that particular person

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Perhaps you should aim your words at that well known liberal Jerry Falwell.

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may as well be, that is if you're of the Christian beliefs
the fuckin ACLU has constantly attacked anything related to it for years now
-Christmas
-the Ten Commandments
-etc etc etc, I probably would spend all fucking night quoting ACLU attacks on Christianity
dont tell me you're gonna try and deny that, because it won't wash, sorry
facts are facts, read the news, etc

me myself, I'm not Christian, I just see what I see,
and what I see is the secualrists fucking with anything and everything related to Christ
wtf is that all about?
wtf about letting people live their own lives?
you still haven't answered that

you accuse Conservatives of runnig poeples' lives,
when it's clear that the damned Liberals are guilty of that
or are you saying that the ACLU is not a liberal organization?

now you want my honest opinion on the whole fuckin enchilada?
it's all a bunch of political bullshit
Democrats, Republicans, all of em
but it really eats my ass to see you liberals try to make it sound like you're so fucking righteous,
when all the liberals have been doing is attacking ONE religion
I don't see em saying a GODdamned thing about Muslims, Buddhists, Athiests, etc
they are trying to cancel fuckin Christmas pretty much,
take God (the Christian likeness of God anyway) out of the equation,
which is bullshit
if a fuckin turban "offends" me......
do you think I would have a prayer in court?
no. period.
because it has nothing to do with civil rights, freedoms, anything
it all has to do with fuckin secular fags at the ACLU,
who are agenda driven, make no mistake about it,
and thier agenda is to rid our country of Christian beliefs,
which, by the way, are the very beliefs that our country was founded on

all this may sound a bit praranoid
hell it even sounds paranoid to me
but just watch the news
every day it seems you see another law suit against something Christian related,
but nothing about any other religion
are you denying that?
if so, please quote.........

-edit-
oh yeah.....
and the very fact that Congress is denied the ability to make any law regarding religion in The Constitution,
should nullify half the fucking laws they've passed regarding anything the last few years it seems,
(but they still get passed)
should just further prove my point about a secular agenda
because, even though it's forbidden in the Constitution, they still find a way to.....
remove the Ten Commandments from buildings,
remove the saying of the word "God" in our very own fucking National Anthem.....
where does it stop?
or do you even give a fuck?
what happens when they attack somethig YOU believe in?
are you gonna jump the fence?
I wonder.......

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Originally Posted by fkdup74

and what I see is the secualrists fucking with anything and everything related to Christ
wtf is that all about?

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maybe you need to visit an optometrist. get a new pair of prescription lenses, so you can also see the evangelists fucking with everything in the u.s. that weren't already related to christ. like editing the pledge of allegiance, adding "in god we trust" as a newer national motto 'cause "e pluribus unum" was too much about democracy & too little about religion, subverting rock 'n' roll (a medium designed to celebrate cars, chicks, drugs, and satan) with their ridiculous "christian rock," and trying to banish empiricism & agnosticism from science.

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Originally Posted by fkdup74

when all the liberals have been doing is attacking ONE religion
I don't see em saying a GODdamned thing about Muslims, Buddhists, Athiests, etc

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yeah well the hindu guys work down at my nearest gas station ain't the ones trying to cover the courthouse in religious graffiti.

What's all the nonsense about the "March of The Penguins" being "evidence" of Intelligent Design? :frusty:


More like the other way round... ;)

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Originally Posted by fkdup74

do you think I would have a prayer in court?
no. period.
because it has nothing to do with civil rights, freedoms, anything
it all has to do with fuckin secular fags at the ACLU,
who are agenda driven, make no mistake about it,
and thier agenda is to rid our country of Christian beliefs,
which, by the way, are the very beliefs that our country was founded on

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Oh, I agree.
Those poor persecuted Christians, forced to worship in secret, unable to get jobs because of their religion, herded into ghettos, singled out for ridicule because of their strange ways...

...wait a minute.
Sorry, that was an alternate universe I sometimes visit.

So you think Christians have it bad here?
Since 1776 white Protestant males have had a stranglehold on the political and financial reins of America (well, somehow, in 1960 a Catholic managed to sneak in...but that was an anomoly, and Kennedy was rich, white and male so he kinda looked Methodist...) and you want us to feel their pain?

Oh brother.

damn.
selective quoting, I love it
you guys forgot or chose to ignore one thing I said:

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Originally Posted by me

me myself, I'm not Christian, I just see what I see,
and what I see is the secualrists fucking with anything and everything related to Christ

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so I'll repeat it.....I'm not a Christian
don't go to church (organized religion is a bunch of bullshit IMO)
can't even swear that I believe in God, or a god, or Buddha, or who/whatever,
although I like to think I didn't evolve from the monkeys :ph34r:
so, if given a choice between Darwin and God, I am more partial to the latter

@fup.

Are you suggesting that Christians are persecuted because they can't put the ten commandments in a courthouse? newsflash.. One can't put a Buddha there or writings from the Koran either. The reason that we don't see court cases about this is BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO PUT THOSE THINGS THERE!!!!. They can put the ten commandments on display in their church or any private ground....but that's not enough for these extremists
The original pledge never said "under god". The original was more in keeping with the whole USA. (apart from the fact that it didn't use the word equality) "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

why are they asking for schools to set "moments for reflection". If a child wishes to pray he or she already has time during school hours to do it....it's called recess or break time.


The fact that Christians have opposition to their attempts to shove their religion down our throats on government property doesn't mean they are being discriminated against.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Jefferson's remarks were perfectly in line with this intent, as they meant that government was to be prevented by this "wall" from interfering in the free practice of religion, not the other way around, and the sum total of these wordings were an effort to avoid the religious persecution and strictures suffered under the Church of England; the source and progenitor of your wall.

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Please explain how a wall only blocks one way, unless this wall is made of tryvak which wasn't invented back then.

It's a wall, not a one way valve.

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Originally Posted by fkdup74

selective quoting, I love it
you guys forgot or chose to ignore one thing I said:

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Originally Posted by me

me myself, I'm not Christian, I just see what I see

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your rant was about secularity versus christianity, christmas good, secular bad. i can't imagine what other part you expected people to respond to. WAS there another part? "quit being mean to jesus! fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. quit being mean to jesus! fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck."

nobody said you were a christian. going by the repetitive tourettes-afflicted tone of that post, i'd have pegged you as someone with a drug or alcohol problem who's prolly on the verge of joining some fundie "promise keepers" type thing, though. :P