Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Strange...
Iraq has been liberated how long?
Yet the USA/UK say it cannot yet secure itself from its own elements, despite huge resources from the Coalition training their Armed Forces and Police.
Lebanon has been free a much shorter time from Syria, and has had didly squat in terms of help to train and supply an Army.... and yet the same countries think that they should be able to sort out Hezbollah, a much more organised and better armed organisation than the Iraqi insurgents..
The word Hypocracy springs to mind..
Uhh it's not that.
1. Rockets come from Lebanon.
2. Lebanon could be in cahoots with Hezbollah or not however...
3. What is Israel supposed to do, sit back and wait for more rockets to come?
If Lebanon cannot sort it then Israel
has to. It's not really a choice.
tralalalalalala and his family are just supposed to sit and wait for a rocket to hit their home. I think not.
You neglect to observe that Israel is dismantling the infrastructure of Lebanon rather than just attacking the rocket positions, affecting any opportunity that the Lebanese government may have in the future of getting control of the whole country.
The intention is to provoke Syria and Iran, and if they respond you don't need a crystal ball to figure what would happen next.
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Uhh it's not that.
1. Rockets come from Lebanon.
2. Lebanon could be in cahoots with Hezbollah or not however...
3. What is Israel supposed to do, sit back and wait for more rockets to come?
If Lebanon cannot sort it then Israel has to. It's not really a choice.
tralalalalalala and his family are just supposed to sit and wait for a rocket to hit their home. I think not.
You neglect to observe that Israel is dismantling the infrastructure of Lebanon rather than just attacking the rocket positions, affecting any opportunity that the Lebanese government may have in the future of getting control of the whole country.
The intention is to provoke Syria and Iran, and if they respond you don't need a crystal ball to figure what would happen next.
Oh right they are defending themselves the wrong way.
"Just attack the rocket positions and be on our way. That'll solve everything."
There will just be new rocket positions.:ermm:
You also neglect the possibility of #2.
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
I dont think anyone has said that Israel shouldnt defend itself..
However, as you pointed out... they are using Rockets.
The thing about Rockets is that the firing location can be found within seconds of the launch due to Ballistic Radar.
They are close to the Israeli Border... not in an International Airport, nor Tripoli, nor the Field Hospitals etc etc... in fact, apart from their HQ in Beirute, there are few Shi'ite Muslims more than 30-50 miles from the Israeli Border, never mind Hezbollah... That entire ethinic grouping is concentrated in the South.
Then there is the fact they have destroyed the infrastrucure heading North, including all Gas Stations and Services, Bridges etc... THEN told the population to move north... along the Highways they're been bombing.
Lets get this into perspective.. 10 times as many innocent Lebonese as Israeli's killed.. AND 500,000 displaced and a whole countrie's infrastructure totalled. A country, the Government of which condemned the attacks when they started... and the population of which now is on Hezbollahs side due to the Israeli actions.
A country that the USA were routing for just a couple of weeks ago too...
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
I dont think anyone has said that Israel shouldnt defend itself..
However, as you pointed out... they are using Rockets.
The thing about Rockets is that the firing location can be found within seconds of the launch due to Ballistic Radar.
They are close to the Israeli Border... not in an International Airport, nor Tripoli, nor the Field Hospitals etc etc... in fact, apart from their HQ in Beirute, there are few Shi'ite Muslims more than 30-50 miles from the Israeli Border, never mind Hezbollah... That entire ethinic grouping is concentrated in the South.
Then there is the fact they have destroyed the infrastrucure heading North, including all Gas Stations and Services, Bridges etc... THEN told the population to move north... along the Highways they're been bombing.
Lets get this into perspective.. 10 times as many innocent Lebonese as Israeli's killed.. AND 500,000 displaced and a whole countrie's infrastructure totalled. A country, the Government of which condemned the attacks when they started... and the population of which now is on Hezbollahs side due to the Israeli actions.
A country that the USA were routing for just a couple of weeks ago too...
You do know rocket positions change, right?
You do know that many governments sanction while condemning attacks, right?
It's quite possible the Lebanese government knows where the rocket positions are then too, right?
So you are saying that maybe Israel should tone down their innocent casualty rate to match their own?
I do not advocate the overkill in the least. However, at some point, muslims, instead of radicalizing, need to do something radical like checking their own.
All I hear is crap like "I don't feel we should apologize for the actions of others" while at the same time......"I will now join in the fight for my muslim brothers against persecution."
:ermm:
Maybe all the muslims of any strength over there are bad and/or weak-minded. Loike 75-25 loike.
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.
So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?
After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Lebenon is a Country of many ethnic groupings..
Hezbollah are Shi'ite muslims...which is why they are supported by Iran generally... that whole ethnic grouping makes up about 14% of the population.
So please explain why they are also bombing the crap out of the Christians?
Or the Muslim factions that, until now, didnt support Hezbollah? In fact they were, until fairly recently, fighting them.
Or the 200,000 Kurds? Kurds... you remember, they are the USA's allies?
Hezbollah, remember supports and is supported by Syria.... and the rest of the population just recently finally managed to kick Syria out.
They were not even close to representing the majority of Lebonese public opinion until Israel started the wholescale slaughter.
As I said earlier, a very factionalised and diverse country is now coming together properly... in the face of a common enemy that attacked them.
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Lebenon is a Country of many ethnic groupings..
Hezbollah are Shi'ite muslims...which is why they are supported by Iran generally... that whole ethnic grouping makes up about 14% of the population.
So please explain why they are also bombing the crap out of the Christians?
Or the Muslim factions that, until now, didnt support Hezbollah? In fact they were, until fairly recently, fighting them.
Or the 200,000 Kurds? Kurds... you remember, they are the USA's allies?
Hezbollah, remember supports and is supported by Syria.... and the rest of the population just recently finally managed to kick Syria out.
They were not even close to representing the majority of Lebonese public opinion until Israel started the wholescale slaughter.
As I said earlier, a very factionalised and diverse country is now coming together properly... in the face of a common enemy that attacked them.
How then isn't Lebanon taking care Hezbollah in their own country?
Hezbollah seems to be such a minority there.
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.
So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?
After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?
Who said Israel's tactics were right?
I'm saying simply allowing rockets to reain down on Israel ad nauseam doesn't cut it and a simple decree from Lebanon saying "we don't like it" doesn't cut it either.
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...6&postcount=18
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...7&postcount=35
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...5&postcount=37
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
I'm simply pointing out that your justification of the large scale bombing of Lebanon is unreasonable.
If that were correct, then during the IRA bombing campaign abainst England, we would have been justified in flattening Dublin, after all they'd had a stable government for a long time. Somehow I don't think you would have been backing us in those circumstances. :dry:
Re: I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Lebenon is a Country of many ethnic groupings..
Hezbollah are Shi'ite muslims...which is why they are supported by Iran generally... that whole ethnic grouping makes up about 14% of the population.
So please explain why they are also bombing the crap out of the Christians?
Or the Muslim factions that, until now, didnt support Hezbollah? In fact they were, until fairly recently, fighting them.
Or the 200,000 Kurds? Kurds... you remember, they are the USA's allies?
Hezbollah, remember supports and is supported by Syria.... and the rest of the population just recently finally managed to kick Syria out.
They were not even close to representing the majority of Lebonese public opinion until Israel started the wholescale slaughter.
As I said earlier, a very factionalised and diverse country is now coming together properly... in the face of a common enemy that attacked them.
How then isn't Lebanon taking care Hezbollah in their own country?
Hezbollah seems to be such a minority there.
As said earlier, they have only just got rid of Syria and dont have a fully trained or equiped professional Army yet.
So... how are they supposed to get rid of Hezbollah?
This organisation may only be a militia, but it is better funded, equiped and trained than Lebanons Army is atm..
Further, the Lebonese Armies size is controlled through a strict ratio of personnel from the different factions and religions.. ie: If the there are few shi'ites joining up then with all of the will in the world, the Army cant legally increase in size to "fill the gap". Its the smallest and most ill equiped Army in the entire Middle East.
Implying that by Bombing Lebanon they are just bombing Muslims that are being radicalized was totally incorrect tho... there are more Christians in Lebanon than there are Shi'ite's (Hezbollah's faction).
What has occured is that they now have an entire country that hates their guts (rather than the dislike that was there before)... instead of 14% of the population of that country.
Instead of support for Hezbollahs campaign coming from only Shi'ite countries such as Iran... they will now have to contend with support going to all the Lebanese factions, from many more countries.
This includes Orthodox Christian Countries/Organisations... not just Islamic ones.
The Christians have often received their support through Germany, Belgium and France to name a few.. ie: European and "Christian" Orgainisations may support them (even if unofficially)
The Sunni factions may get their support from the likes of Libya and Iraq, and also from "mainstream" Islamic countries as the Sunni is a mainstream secular faction (ie: Sunni's don't threaten the status quo of Islamic Countries as they are not Fundamentalist)
The Druze may get support from Russia/China etc where they have always had close ties.
So, you see... its possibly a much greater escalation than it looks like on the surface.
Israel is taking a big risk (and they know it), and frankly (in my opinion) they deserve it if it all goes tits up for them.
