If your Foetus is diagnosed with down syndrome do you Abort?

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Originally Posted by Snee

Doesn't have to be true. The level of cognition and ability does, as I understand it, differ.

It's probable that the child will never be able to be as independent as someone considered normal, but then again there are plenty people who don't have Down's syndrome and still can't manage to take care of themselves.

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- does not develop

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In the same way, or as far, as you or I have.

Doesn't mean he or she can't grow up to have a tremendously enjoyable life.

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- will not reflect you :huh:

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Won't look like you or I, won't function like us, and won't be able to do everything we do.

But who cares? How often does a child turn out to be everything his or her parents might have wished?

And what's so fantastic about being just like us?

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- first 6 years are fine then the difference shows

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I guess.

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- survival of fittest

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If we start eliminating people on the basis of some percieved ideal of fitness we'll probably end up in a pretty boring world.

Besides, our societies are fairly enlightened ones, with social safety nets and whatnot. We don't live like animals, so shouldn't have to be bound by natural laws that don't have to apply the same way, anymore. The more advanced the civilisation, the more subjective what's fit to exist, I reckon.


And to round things up I'd like to point out that happiness often seems to be inversely proportional to intelligence. In some ways, I reckon that people with reduced mental capabilities, if you can call it that, may lead much better lives, as far as happiness and sense of fulfillment is concerned.

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Just to echo Snee on the survival of the fittest point. Genetic variation and variety is necessary to a healthy human species. Just look around.

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Originally Posted by Snee

And to round things up I'd like to point out that happiness often seems to be inversely proportional to intelligence. In some ways, I reckon that people with reduced mental capabilities, if you can call it that, may lead much better lives, as far as happiness and sense of fulfillment is concerned.

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i totally agree on that one . ignorance is bliss :mellow:

I voted no clue as this decision is very individualized. As for my current rationale, don't abort the baby. Who am I to judge how satisfied the baby will be without giving it a chance?

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Originally Posted by Frizz

I voted no clue as this decision is very individualized. As for my current rationale, don't abort the baby. Who am I to judge how satisfied the baby will be without giving it a chance?

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Problem being, the practice of individualism (and whatever compels it) is where problems arise.

The casting off of any constraint save absolute viability relieves us of any responsibility, you see.

Some of us like that, I guess...:huh:

In the old days you simply got pregnant and had the baby, now you can analyse the blood, the liquid in the sack and do digital scans and even 3d scans.
In some way i think if you are going to get a present you should be happy with what you get. Being able to see into the future has its perks and its vices.

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Originally Posted by anoneemuse

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Originally Posted by Snee

And to round things up I'd like to point out that happiness often seems to be inversely proportional to intelligence. In some ways, I reckon that people with reduced mental capabilities, if you can call it that, may lead much better lives, as far as happiness and sense of fulfillment is concerned.

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i totally agree on that one . ignorance is bliss :mellow:

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In other words they don't know whether they should be happy or not.

I think happiness has absolutely nothing to do with being intelligent or being unintelligent. It is a subjective thing as to each of our individual perceptions of reality at any given moment. Just as you may be happy right now I'm sure someone could convince you that you're really unhappy..given enough skill that is. How do you know you are happy?

The few Down syndrome people I'v met seemed so alive and happy , eager to please . Wish my perfect children had inherited those qualities now that their older .

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by pentomato

It is not fair to anyone to bring a baby to this wolrd that is going to suffer so much. When the parents die what is next for the baby? living in a group home where they treat people like animals, yes I know I have seeing it first hand, I work with people with those conditions and it is not nice, it only create jobs, but people like that fall under the cracks.

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Fair?

By whose standards?

There are many people who live better lives than you or I; to which of them would you extend the authority to end your life because you are a "burden to others"?

It sounds like you've discovered the solution to African poverty. :dabs:

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The solution to African poverty?
What about the solution to to the american poverty?
If you are poor, you can make it better, if you are mentally retarded, your life will always be hell, there is nothing you can do about it.
Don't talk to me about standards, I work with people with mental retardation and their life has not sense.

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Originally Posted by Frizz

I voted no clue as this decision is very individualized. As for my current rationale, don't abort the baby. Who am I to judge how satisfied the baby will be without giving it a chance?

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And do you think it is fair, those babies will be abondone and abused?
Those people end up in group homes where workers treat them like dirt, go to day programs where nobody gives a crap about them.
How satisfied will be a person that has no control over his/her life, where everything is been done for them, people that don't have any kind of freedom?
I don't think it is fair to bring a person like that to this world, when you know their life is going to be hell, how responsible is that?

^^ The poster above makes some interesting points.

To answer the immediate question my opinion is... it depends/if it's not me, it's none of my business/if it is me, then I would make that decision at the time - with the baby's father, and we would have to look at what the baby needs, what we can give, and most importantly, what the Society we are in is able to give this child/youth/adult when the time comes (sometimes sooner than we want - as the fates so determine) that we or his/her family are not able to/unable to/not around to care anymore.

One measure of a Society is how it treats it's most vulnerable citizens. It is reckless to not consider to the extent that laws, services, mores/values are in place to provide daily ethical treatment of its handicapped members. Harsh and responsible answers must be considered to such things as: Are our group home/daily living services well staffed and managed enough to a reasonable extent that parents have some comfort that if something happens to them/their child/youth/adult who is handicapped and requires daily living assistance for the rest of his/her life will not be abused, shuffled around, mismanaged, forgotten. Are there enough services available to the child to allow him/her to flourish in nurturing schools, access to health care, family access to respite and other in-home services as needed.

I know I can love any child of mine. I have two already. But my life is not a guarantee. Our role as parents is to raise our children to an age of independence with enough built-in values and common sense to at least give more back to the world more than that what it gives, and not leave a trail of broken hearts and minds during the journey; because the natural order of things is that parents die before their children, and our progeny is left to manage the world on their own - independent of our daily care.

Parents of disabled children know damn well that they have a tough decision ahead of them - one that requires them to think beyond the love that they can give, and consider also that little corner of the world they are bringing their child in to has to offer as well.

With that said, some countries do a magnificent job of caring for its citizens from cradle to grave - with a few exceptions along the way - and as a result, the decision to bring a high-needs child into the world gives these parents one less worry to consider in their decision. On the other hand, there are some countries that have so many different levels of treatment, rights and privileges that even the healthiest and able-bodied find it a chore to get through in one piece.

Bottom line... it depends. My answer then is.. no clue.