Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Disme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:
- The U.S. of A. is fighting in two devastating wars (Afghinistan and Iraq);
War is generally good for the economy. It creates jobs, expansion, etc. It certainly hasn't left us in "ruins". Quite the opposite.
- The U.S. of A. has a huge dificit in it's states budget (due to those wars and other economic factors);
We have been in the hole since the 1940's. Nothing new there.
- The U.S. of A. is struggling with a huge banking crysis;
- The U.S. of A. is in an economic recession;
Largely due to the housing market.
In short, this mess was created by the same groups who've created the recent spike in oil prices over here as well.
Parts of New England and southern California saw explosive growth in real estate, and that bubble eventually popped. The same cast of characters that created the housing mess, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, etc. are involved in this new oil bubble. When the housing market went south, they scrambled for a way to recover. They did so by investing in oil futures; only this time they are using federal bailout money to inflate the price of oil.
The way traders manipulate prices is surprisingly simple and goes beyond basic supply and demand. Demand isn't just made up of only real consumer demand but also demand created in the futures market. Hundreds of billions of dollars from hedge funds, pension funds, and other investments have been pouring into the futures market and this money has been creating an artificial demand which in turn is driving prices up. More specifically, they buy in European futures markets, which don't have the various limitations that U.S. markets do. That drives up U.S. prices where they may already have positions set by supply and demand. It’s market manipulation, pure and simple.
But remember, it's all linked to the housing market, and that is why banks are going belly up. As you see the housing market again taking a decline, you see oil prices dropping in unison.
When the housing market recovers, so shall the rest of our economy.
- The U.S. of A. has a social system that is failing;
How so? If there is anything that is thriving over here, it is our social systems. :dry:
- Consumer confidence is at an all-time low;
With relation to what? :unsure:
- Unemployment is skyhigh;
Current estimates are at 4.8%. Up, but a long shot from "sky high".
- 85% of it's inhabitants are under the impression it isn't going good at all with their nation;
I agree that our nation isn't where it should be as well. Who isn't? Anyone who is satisfied with the economic market right now is completely uninformed. But on the uphand, it isn't going to be our end-all. It's a recession. This isn't the first and it won't be the last. We'll get through it just like we always do.
- You're international relationships have been seriously deteriorating during the past 8 years.
The only deterioration we may have had in the past eight years is with countries that don't wish to have a working relationship with the US or it's allies in the first place. Many of our staunch allies have been fighting these battles right along side of us. What staunch ally of ours has reversed their stance with the US?
...
Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skweeky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:
I guess you have to see it from a distance mate, ie, the other side of the Atlantic. :unsure:
I would say an up close view is the better one.
Re: Is this a historic day.
I'm just saying that's the way it looks from over here. I'm not saying it's true or not. I don't live there.
Re: Is this a historic day.
I'm happy Obama got elected but he does have quite the mess(es) to clear up thanks to an absolutely shite 8 years from Bush. Good luck to him (Obama not Bush obviously . . .).
Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Disme
- The U.S. of A. is fighting in two devastating wars (Afghinistan and Iraq);
War is generally good for the economy. It creates jobs, expansion, etc. It certainly hasn't left us in "ruins". Quite the opposite.
Bullshit. The extra money spent on war - is money that will not be spent elsewhere. War can be funded in a combination of three ways:
1. Increasing taxes
2. Decrease spending in other areas
3. Increasing the debt
- The U.S. of A. has a huge dificit in it's states budget (due to those wars and other economic factors);
We have been in the hole since the 1940's. Nothing new there.
The increase in total debt during Reagan’s two terms was larger than all the debt accumulated by all the presidents before him combined. Bush
Sr. and Jr. added to this debt by continuing to adhere to the principles of Reganomics, and trickle down theory, i.e., padding the pockets of the rich.
When Bill Clinton took office, the budget deficit was $290 billion. When he left, there was a budget surplus of more than $230 billion -- the greatest surplus in U.S. history. The Clinton administration paid down the national debt $216 billion in 2000.
- The U.S. of A. is struggling with a huge banking crysis;
- The U.S. of A. is in an economic recession;
Due to a combination of factors:
The Federal Reserve, Congress, real estate agents, The Clintion administration, mortgage brokers, Alan Greenspan, Wall Street firms, The Bush administration, and obscure accounting rules; such as mark to market.
Largely due to the housing market.
In short, this mess was created by the same groups who've created the recent spike in oil prices over here as well.
Parts of New England and southern California saw explosive growth in real estate, and that bubble eventually popped. The same cast of characters that created the housing mess, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, etc. are involved in this new oil bubble. When the housing market went south, they scrambled for a way to recover. They did so by investing in oil futures; only this time they are using federal bailout money to inflate the price of oil.
The way traders manipulate prices is surprisingly simple and goes beyond basic supply and demand. Demand isn't just made up of only real consumer demand but also demand created in the futures market. Hundreds of billions of dollars from hedge funds, pension funds, and other investments have been pouring into the futures market and this money has been creating an artificial demand which in turn is driving prices up. More specifically, they buy in European futures markets, which don't have the various limitations that U.S. markets do. That drives up U.S. prices where they may already have positions set by supply and demand. It’s market manipulation, pure and simple.
But remember, it's all linked to the housing market, and that is why banks are going belly up. As you see the housing market again taking a decline, you see oil prices dropping in unison.
When the housing market recovers, so shall the rest of our economy.
- The U.S. of A. has a social system that is failing;
How so? If there is anything that is thriving over here, it is our social systems. :dry:
- Consumer confidence is at an all-time low;
With relation to what? :unsure:
- Unemployment is skyhigh;
Current estimates are at 4.8%. Up, but a long shot from "sky high".
- 85% of it's inhabitants are under the impression it isn't going good at all with their nation;
I agree that our nation isn't where it should be as well. Who isn't? Anyone who is satisfied with the economic market right now is completely uninformed. But on the uphand, it isn't going to be our end-all. It's a recession. This isn't the first and it won't be the last. We'll get through it just like we always do.
- You're international relationships have been seriously deteriorating during the past 8 years.
The only deterioration we may have had in the past eight years is with countries that don't wish to have a working relationship with the US or it's allies in the first place. Many of our staunch allies have been fighting these battles right along side of us. What staunch ally of ours has reversed their stance with the US?
...
-bd
Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Disme
Maybe an historical day ... but Obama is faced with a country in ruins.
I'm really curious to see what he is going to change and how and at what cost.
Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:
It isn't? what else do you need to see?
I forgot you are a republican and as mccain said, the american economy is strong, the majority of americans didn't think so lol
Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
colt45joe
it was ridiculous when the crowd booed.
It always happens. It isn't appropriate, but there are always a few of them. No biggie... just a bit of emotion and frustration.
It is very strange and sad that only happens in the republican side, just a thought
Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skweeky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Our country is not in ruins. What the heck are you talking about? :blink:
I guess you have to see it from a distance mate, ie, the other side of the Atlantic. :unsure:
Nope, we don't have to go to the other side to see the great fuck up bush did to this great country, yes it is in ruins, we just need total anarchy for some to see it.
Re: Is this a historic day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Disme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbarossa
I don't think America is any more in ruins than for example the UK, france or germany to be honest :dabs:
That might be the case, but that wasn't what I said ... I didn't say only the U.S.A. is in ruins ... I said Obama will have a hard time getting the U.S. back on it's feet after the last 8 years.
I agree the US is in ruins, but you guys in Europe and the rest of the world have it much worst
Re: Is this a historic day.
How do you figure that then? o_O
