Printable View
my personal opinions dont matter fcuk all so i wont bother sharing them with you...
but these sort of posts are dumb it just turns into 2 parties throwing facts about death toll's and machine gun rate of fires!
<.> <.>
^
:..........:
it is stupid you either agree or you dont some person online isnt going to change your views really are they.. so why bother...
Not agreeing on that Tommygunn aye VanDiem :D , think i read in these debates a lot a didn't know, from both sides. It didn't change my mind though. I am even more of what i think is right. But having these debates makes you hear what others think of it, to hear two sides of the story gives you a better chance to form your own opinion. B)
I dont think anyone will change their minds Tommy, But we might get to understand each others point of view
also the bottom line is NO ONE here knows for sure the reasoning behind this war. all we know is what we have been told by bush, by whoever.
if we could get inside bush's head then we could find out the real reason he is so anxious to go to war. but i do think there is more to his reasoning for war than what he has said but thats just the government for you.
and if you think any government discloses everything with the public then your just as naive as the rest of the people.
B-I-N-G-OQuote:
Originally posted by computerfreak76@19 February 2003 - 21:50
and if you think any government discloses everything with the public then your just as naive as the rest of the people.
For all we know our guys are right now fighting small battles in North africa and the far east, fact is Iraq has been in the media so much that I wonder what else is really going on here.
-SJ™
i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit.
i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.
i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.
ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.
no country including the usa is invincible!
Quote:
Originally posted by Ynhockey@19 February 2003 - 13:36
I do support war in Iraq, although if it starts, I'm going to be one of the people in mortal danger (living in Israel). But so what ? Both Arafat and Hussein are political geniuses and time has proven that they can't be beaten with words, so a war is one of the few options left to defeat them (but this time the objective has to be to eliminate the Iraqi leadership, because if they don't, this is going to be just like the gulf war).
first of all u retard, if u knew shit about shit, u'd know that the iraqi military is a shadow of its former, 1990, self. secondly, don't try to make urself sound noble that ur going to serve. u didn't volunteer. ur an israeli. u have to serve.Quote:
@ sAdam:
What do you know about a military ? Judging by your words, you know nothing. I am only going to serve in 2 years, but some of my friends are serving now and I can tell that it's really difficult (just the training). Imagine how hard an actual tactical operation is - unlike training, in one of these you can't fail 'cause then you die. Besides, I'm sure that the Iraqi army has improved just like the US army, and although all they have is ancient Soviet weapons, they are still a strong opponent and should not be underestimated. I get the impression that all you know about wars comes from games like Red Alert 2. So go play that.
next, to all u morons that think i have no regard for human life, read my original post regerding the three groups at risk in this potential conflict. the american army IS a volunteer force of highly motivated people. they are all ready, willing and able to fight a war. the vast majority of the israeli population is in support of war with iraq for whatever reasons. the only people that have no say in the matter are the iraqi soldiers. they are not volunteers, and my biggest fear is that many more of them that would be willing to surrender will die than in '91 because of gps guided munitions which do not require a line of sight.
If you are serious about your beliefs I really think you should find a better way to put it if you are trying to get a point across.Quote:
Originally posted by sAdam@19 February 2003 - 22:53
first of all u retard, if u knew shit about shit, u'd know that the iraqi military is a shadow of its former, 1990, self. secondly, don't try to make urself sound noble that ur going to serve. u didn't volunteer. ur an israeli. u have to serve.
Cause I am as Yank as they get, I love this country all that and more, but reading this thread and your responses? Here is what you seem like:
Troglodyte.
Again, if you really believe in what you are saying, that is what you think, I simply find your text hard to sift through and it seems like you just wanna flame people.
-SJ™
I am from the USA, and the $20,000.00 in federal taxes I paid for last year, ought pay for atleast one missle.Quote:
Originally posted by Zardoz@19 February 2003 - 11:43
All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?
I hope you're going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.
I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death
If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.
I am almost 40 years old and have a few toddlers. But if if the government needs (draft) me, I am ready NOW!
Let's see, I paid enough taxes for:
-A nice car or jeep
-a years worth of prison expenses for a criminal
-meals for the troops
-1 month internet access for 1,000 AOL customers
-All of the songs I ever wanted, instead of downloading them for free.
-33-1/3 years of DSL at $50.00 a month
-One concrete driveway
-Cheap windows for my house
-25 computer systems ($800.00 each)
-20,000 gifts from the Dollar Store
-6,666 boxes of Entemen's doughnuts
-4,000 feet of T1/3 internet cable
-expanded cable-TV for 20years
-238 years of Cricket Cell Phone Service
-1 minute of Bill Gates time (market price)
-8032 BigMac burgers
etc... etc... etc...
Yah, lets just pretend like France and Germany are not part of the UN, and than you make a logical leap in your argument.Quote:
I can understand France/Germany not wanting to go to war, its America's problem, they brought it up in the first place.
No doubt. We cannot isolate ourselves from the world because everytime the US does that, it bites us back. You could argue our actions will isolate us, but I 'm fairly confident a large coalition will come together on this. France and Germany are more likely to find themselves isolated than the US. I really don't want to have to go into this, but I firmly believe Saddam has WMD and is skirting the UN, and because of this, is a threat to the US and many other countries. Innaction is just as dangerous as action, but its easier to not act.Quote:
i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit.
i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.
i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.
ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.
no country including the usa is invincible!
I agree that opinions dont change often, but its important to understand that each side has moral and logical reasoning for their positions. It is important to have a dialogue, especially because this forum has so much world perspective. Europeans need to understand Americans; Americans need to understand Europeans (as well as the rest of the world). We are all friends in peace and democracy, and troubling times require dialogue. Sometimes the peaceful ways of our nations are disturbed and there is a need for discourse and action. Secondly, who DOESNT understand this is not TV? I think everyone understands just fine. Blowing off an argument because you dont think they understand it is "real" suggests someone has a psychological problem or are emotionally challenged. I dont think anyone who has found their way onto this forum has that issue, even the people I strongly disagree with. :PQuote:
I may just sign off on this subject forever more. Things I say get misinterpreted, war sucks cause dead people IRL is not like the t.v. or a video game or a movie, it is very real.
What a copout.Quote:
All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?
I hope you're going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.
I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death
If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.
Your way off base here and you offer no solutions or constructive criticism. Would you like to base something on fact or maybe pose some logical arguments?Quote:
And are you going to be one of the dead
Are you going?
It's people like you sat in their IVORY towers who think 148 allied lives are irrelevant and what about the Iraqi lives
They obviously have no meaning
I bet MY LIFE that you hold your own far more important than any others especially the soldiers you so readily send to death
You disgust me, you cowardly small-minded fool
This time Sadam knows it's for keeps so there's nothing to stop him using chemical or bio weapons this time
If you think that there are only going to be 130 allied death then you really are more stupid than my wildest speculations
Good point, but that changed today when Turkey agreed to allow US to use their bases in return for a large sum of aid (see: money).Quote:
Turkey have already stated that they will NOT automatically support any war on Iraq, or indeed allow anyone to use their airbases for an attack on Iraq.
Rat Faced, I think your missing his point completely and responding emotionally. He is simply pointing out allied military casualties will likely be low. Secondly, thats passing judgement to say he doesn't care about the 250,000 killed, you cant know how he feels. Thirdly, France was not stopping troops from being placed on the Turkey/Iraq border. France tried to halt purely defensive capabilities which would protect Turkey from possible skud attacks, and France tried to block other non-attacking units like U2 planes.Quote:
the 250,000 Iraqi's killed dont count as human lives to you?
Sicko...
Unlike some of your compatriots that are willing to debate, although not agree, you seem to want a war for TV entertainment as much as anything else.
Hell, you've even upset other pro-war members, never mind the anti-war lobby, so I echo the sentements posted by one of them....
Go back and play your Red Alert2.
As to the Post regarding France/Germany....
Im sure I answered WHY Germany and France cant send troops to Turkey UNTIL Turkey is attacked elswhere.
Germany cannot deploy Troops outside of Germany unless called on by UN or is attacked (or NATO member is attacked)...Its ILLEGAL.....Im sure it was the USA that insisted on this after WWII, so why are you complaining?
France is in the unique position of not being a FULL member of NATO. It comes into NATO in times of war.
NEITHER country said they would not help Turkey if attacked. They will not, however send troops to the Iraqi border prior to them being attacked....as they do not wish to be associated with the US/UK attack on Iraq.
Quite frankly, neither do I......unfortunatly the UK Government is taking part...But NOT IN MY NAME
Such a disregard for the safety of a Nato member just further displays that France is only playing politics. This seriously puts into question France's motivations for being opposed to this war. Further evidence of this, is the extremely offensive comments Chirac made about the 10 Eastern European countries that have come out in support of the US. France is playing dirty and I am starting to believe their motives are not in world security, but in French and EU political power (through EU unity). This is some serious stuff. If France wants to pretend like it has the moral high ground, it better start acting like a big boy.
Side-note: as for France not participating(specifically on a military level). Their military power is nominal and not needed in Iraq. The only thing "unique" about their policial positioning is they cant have a military position, because they have almost no military to speak of. I do think France should atleast obstain, if not support the war(but they probably wont). I've said it before, France is against this war for the wrong reasons. And when its all over, France is going to look very bad.