President Bush's Church

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Originally Posted by vidcc

It is a problem , but it's not exclusively a gay problem, it's a hetrosexual problem as well but that is ignored for convenience

And i have no respect for beliefs such as that....where is the supposed compassion? where is the good that you say church does in a view like that?
I respect peoples belief in god but ever time i hear intollerant stuff like this it only confims to me that i am right to not believe

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How in any way am I being intolorant?

Have I stated any action that I think should be followed?

Here's a question. How does the church act in teenage pregnancy? in sex before marriage? in divorce? in the thousands of other immoral acts that they percieve? This is no different and has no seperate action. The actions are condemned but the person surely is not; in fact it is a point (at least in my church) that those with moral failures should be helped and not shunned.

side note;
My (former) girlfriend of about 5 months is pregnant. She's 18, and the baby is from another person before I met her. Did we throw her out? no. Did we ream her for doing wrong? no. She is instead encouraged to marry the person with whom she had the baby, but if she doesn't, will she be kicked out? no.

But, it is concided that AIDS is no longer just a gay problem; Its a problem period, and needs to be stopped, with the first stop being Africa (I will be traveling to Zambia this May to see firsthand.)

You say that as if it actually matters that her baby is from a relationship before your own.

While I am gratified by the fact that you havent thrown her out; I have to question why you feel the subject of this young lady, who may very well be able to identify herself from this information, should be brought up on a Public Forum.

It was quite possible to make it a "Hypothetical" case.

Who's baby it is; is immaterial. The baby hasnt done anything wrong, and any decent bloke would look to the baby as his own anyway in this circumstance, if there was still a relationship.

I hope that the fact she was pregnant from a former relationship is not the factor that split your relationship up, as i would feel very sorry for you if it was... the fact that it was from a former relationship, shows that she hasnt done anything wrong either in most peoples eyes.

I hope that you enjoy your trip to Zambia.

I have never travelled there myself, however if its anything like Kenya, then you should (provided you actually look around, and dont stay in the Tourist Places) get an idea of how lucky all of us in Europe and the USA actually are.

It will be a very humbling experiance for you, im sure, which may well change your feelings on many subjects. Not all of them being obvious to you at the moment ;)

Manny your intollerance shows in your statements and attitude.

I'm not going to comment on the girl apart from..."encouraging her to marry the father"...what kind of marriage is based on the shotgun approach? marriage shouldn't be entered into, considered or encouraged without a solid foundation and just the act of having sex producing a child is not a solid foundation.

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Originally Posted by manny

But, it is concided that AIDS is no longer just a gay problem

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it was never just a gay problem, it was however picked up as being just a gay problem and promoted that way.... It was just as likely that HIV was introduced to the USA via blood products for haemophiliacs...both hetro and homosexual. But using your accounting techniques it would have shown in a higher percentage of gays because there are less off them.

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How does the church act in teenage pregnancy? in sex before marriage? in divorce? in the thousands of other immoral acts that they percieve?

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The Catholic church can ex-communicate you. They have even considered ex-communicating politicians who support pro-choice positions and some have considered it for people who vote for those poiticians. While it doesn't happen often, some gay men have been denied communion.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

...... higher percentage of gays because there are less off them.

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And the above fact that its more difficult for a female to pass the virus to a male....

Male to Male = Bodily Fluids.. infection almost certain

Male to Female = Bodily Fluids... infection almost certain

Female to Male = Rarely Bodily Fluids.. infection rare


Edit: In "normal" sexual relations for that type of relationship.... If there is a "normal" these days :rolleyes:

well in hetrosexual relationships rat i include women, but i did get your point about the speed of infection. With a man he has a higher chance of infecting each woman he sleeps with but the woman has a significantly lower chance of passing it on.

What i was doing in the bit you pointed to is that if there are 2 gay men in the world and one has hiv that's 50%...if there's 10 hetrosexuals and 2 have hiv that's only 20% but twice the amount of actual infections....i was just pointing out manny's accounting method to make it look like it was a mostly gays that suffer.

Rat Faced

I suspect, given the spread of Aids in Africa, Thailand and Russia, in heterosexual communities that it travels between females and males somewhat more easily than you suggest.

The humble condom has much to commend it. Its use in Gay communities brought infection rates down dramatically. Unfortunately, there are those who liken them to having a bath with one's socks on - and will not use them regardless of risk. There is also the religious element in Africa, but I think we did that one to death in a previous thread.

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Transmission. HIV/AIDS has been thought of in the past as a disease mainly affecting gay men or drug users. In fact, in 2004, most HIV infections come from heterosexual sex. And in heterosexual sex, women are more likely to become infected than are men.

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Originally Posted by Mathea

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Thanks Mathea, saves me looking it up ;)

np... I was sure u were right but i looked it up all the same (whats wrong with me? venture outta the lounge for 2 days and im actually lookin things up :blink: )