Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Most of what gets bundled you can download for free from the MS site.
They do it so that you get familiar with the brand, it's all about marketing. Someone who uses IE for browsing, WMP for playing mp3s and vids, Outlook for mail, Windows defrag for uh, defragging, SP2 built in firewall for protection - I could go on here - will be loyal to the MS brand.
At least that's the thinking - 'all my software is MS so I'll buy MS products' - This means they'll buy stuff like Word, Office, etc.
Brand loyalty is a serious force in the world of marketing.
Other companies don't have their stuff bundled with an OS so they don't get that advantage.
Therefore if stuff isn't bundled and the customer is less loyal to MS one could say that other companies will be more of a force in the marketplace and price competition will become more fierce - driving prices down and encouraging innovation.
Monopolies, or monopolistic practice is bad for the consumer, mmkay.
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Most of what gets bundled you can download for free from the MS site.
They do it so that you get familiar with the brand, it's all about marketing. Someone who uses IE for browsing, WMP for playing mp3s and vids, Outlook for mail, Windows defrag for uh, defragging, SP2 built in firewall for protection - I could go on here - will be loyal to the MS brand.
At least that's the thinking - 'all my software is MS so I'll buy MS products' - This means they'll buy stuff like Word, Office, etc.
Brand loyalty is a serious force in the world of marketing.
Other companies don't have their stuff bundled with an OS so they don't get that advantage.
Therefore if stuff isn't bundled and the customer is less loyal to MS one could say that other companies will be more of a force in the marketplace and price competition will become more fierce - driving prices down and encouraging innovation.
Monopolies, or monopolistic practice is bad for the consumer, mmkay.
After all of what you said....you haven't told me how unbundling is good for the consumer.
The jist of it was....monopolies are bad. :dry: mmmkay?
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Explain it to me in layman's terms.
ATM if you do not want a non-windows program taking up space, you are able to uninstall it. If you want to do the same for a program intergrated into Windows, there's no option to do so. Whether you want it or not, it'll stay there - If not used, with no purpose.
There's many who use WMP but there's also many that don't and don't want it on the system - This is a benefit for them. There's nothing saying that WMP cannot be put on computers but they can't be the only one if at all.
And my understanding is that the a new European version of XP would be released rather than doing it to all the Euro copies, just like they're doing for the 64-bit version in a few weeks - Not advertised as a new thing but there for those in the know. :)
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
After all of what you said....you haven't told me how unbundling is good for the consumer.
The jist of it was....monopolies are bad. mmmkay?
First you moan that it's going to cost you, then I explained that it won't, then you asked for it in layman's terms and asking how it benefits the consumer, so I explained it in layman's terms, culminating in why it's better for the consumer.
Now you're denying that I've done it.
Read the last but one sentence of my previous post. I've written exactly what you're asking for.
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminati
ATM if you want to do not want a non-windows program taking up space, you are able to uninstall it. If you want to do the same for a program intergrated into Windows, there's no option to do so. Whether you want it or not, it'll stay there - If not used, with no purpose.
There's many who use WMP but there's also many that don't and don't want it on the system - This is a benefit for them. There's nothing saying that WMP cannot be put on computers but they can't be the only one if at all.
And my understanding is that the a new European version of XP would be released rather than doing it to all the Euro copies, just like they're doing for the 64-bit version in a few weeks - Not advertised as a new thing but there for those in the know. :)
Explain to me in layman's terms. I could not want many things that are on Windows. How does just not wanting it and removing it make it better for the consumer? :huh:
I have used other media programs besides WMP so what you said doesn't harm me. There are many that don't use IE. How are they harmed by it coming with Windows?
Saying a computer that comes with an added benefit, which doesn't have to be used, is harming the consumer is bullshit.
Come up with something else. Otherwise you are reciting a competitor's words. I bet if IE could simply be uninstalled after it's shipped, is also harming the consumer too.
Therefore if the consumer has to have it off the computer they can. Right?
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
First you moan that it's going to cost you, then I explained that it won't, then you asked for it in layman's terms and asking how it benefits the consumer, so I explained it in layman's terms, culminating in why it's better for the consumer.
Now you're denying that I've done it.
Read the last but one sentence of my previous post. I've written exactly what you're asking for.
Well, you didn't. You explained the theories of not having a monopoly. I agree with it in theory. You also explained brand loyalty, which has nothing to do with harming the consumer. :blink:
Windows has been about the same price (it did jump only recently) for years.
Many get it with their computers and on an upgrade, do it every other upgrade including enterprise business.
When I say layman's terms I mean the average joe that buys a computer.
I didn't hear this commotion until American competitor's yelled foul. Public outcry was tumbleweed in a western town.
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Explain to me in layman's terms. I could not want many things that are on Windows. How does just not wanting it and removing it make it better for the consumer? :huh:
I have used other media programs besides WMP so what you said doesn't harm me. There are many that don't use IE. How are they harmed by it coming with Windows?
Saying a computer that comes with an added benefit, which doesn't have to be used, is harming the consumer is bullshit.
Come up with something else. Otherwise you are reciting a competitor's words. I bet if IE could simply be uninstalled after it's shipped, is also harming the consumer too.
Therefore if the consumer has to have it off the computer they can. Right?
Well the fact is I can't say anything else because there isn't anything else to say.
Fact is that I haven't used WMP for almost two years because I've used another media player - That's two years the software hasn't had to be there. So to me, this news is a good thing in that I can have more control over my PC.
You say that this would harm normal consumers. On the same path, there are many people who use a retarded P2P network by using Kazaa because they're casual users and don't know other programs - where's your bleeding heart for them while we use alternatives?
In the end, news like this can only be interpreted in ways it's good for you and you alone. For me, it's good news because it means I'll have more say over my computer and what's on it. For you, it isn't a bother so it isn't good news if news at all.
I couldn't care less if IE, WMP or any other integrated software is or isn't shipped afterwards (I'd rather it would to help casual users actually) - I care about the option to be able to uninstall it and not have anything to do with it.
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
well what about the people who arent as PC literate as others? when they get there puter and pop in a disc....nothing will happen. They may not care about monopoly or anything else, they just want the puter to play the disc. Then they have to start asking about to find out how to make it work, then they find that they have to buy more software. The amount of space eaten up by WMP is negligable, especially on todays large HDDs. And as far as other companies not having the benefit of having their software bundled with an OS, maybe they should write their own OS. I look at it this way.......It's Microsofts software and OS, they should do with it whatever they want.
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Explain to me in layman's terms. I could not want many things that are on Windows. How does just not wanting it and removing it make it better for the consumer?
I've explained that, if the bundling is not there and MS doesn't have this blind brand loyalty then it will improve innovation and drive prices down thro' increased competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B
I have used other media programs besides WMP so what you said doesn't harm me. There are many that don't use IE. How are they harmed by it coming with Windows?
See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Saying a computer that comes with an added benefit, which doesn't have to be used, is harming the consumer is bullshit.
No it isn't I've explained that already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Come up with something else. Otherwise you are reciting a competitor's words. I bet if IE could simply be uninstalled after it's shipped, is also harming the consumer too.
I already have come up with something else, you need to read it now. What do you mean about IE. You need that to upgrade your OS, another example of MS's technique for binding the customer to it's products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B
Therefore if the consumer has to have it off the computer they can. Right?
Wrong. MS ensure that you either need many of their products, or you simply cannot uninstall them, as is the case with WMP.
Re: Microsoft Accepts EU Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Well, you didn't. You explained the theories of not having a monopoly. I agree with it in theory. You also explained brand loyalty, which has nothing to do with harming the consumer. :blink:
Windows has been about the same price (it did jump only recently) for years.
Many get it with their computers and on an upgrade, do it every other upgrade including enterprise business.
When I say layman's terms I mean the average joe that buys a computer.
I didn't hear this commotion until American competitor's yelled foul. Public outcry was tumbleweed in a western town.
Yes, brand loyalty of the type MS instill into consumers is harming the consumer because it's causing a edging out the competition, can you not see that.
The average American Joe that buys a computer will see an more competitive market which will drive down the prices of software and make software more reliable.
Look at the hardware market and how much cheaper and more reliable it is now - and why? MS don't have a monopoly on that.
