Creationism was facing extinction due to political climate change in the classroom. It has evolved and adapted to the cope with the new climate.
QED :shifty:
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Creationism was facing extinction due to political climate change in the classroom. It has evolved and adapted to the cope with the new climate.
QED :shifty:
I don't do that, neither do I believe "an entity in mans image created it all from nothing"Quote:
Originally Posted by GepperRankins
I can't believe when atheists tell me what I believe and then argue against it. Seems rather pointless to me.
:lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
:snooty:
:lol: I understand your disbeliefQuote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
I don't believe your understanding of his disbelief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
Yeah Conservative christianity And they make us believe other religion is wrong. They getting the youth because they can't think/rebel for themselves.. bah fuck themQuote:
Originally Posted by whypikonme
Yeah uh huh..I agree...:unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by neon
You posted "Conservative" with a capital and "christianity" without one. Implying that it's something to do with the political party, or somesuch.Quote:
Originally Posted by neon
Did you perhaps mean "conservative Christianity", if so could you perhaps explain what you mean by the phrase. As this may help to clarify your post.
hardline bigoted views, intolerent of other religions and even science?
Isn't that pretty much most of the fundamentalists and is hardly specific to Christianity.Quote:
Originally Posted by GepperRankins
Indeed I would venture there are fundamentalists who are even more extreme in their intolerance than your average conservative Christian.
the most powerful ones, the ones who are pushing this intelligent design theory into science lessons are the christian ones
As opposed to the ones who teach only one way of thinking and will tolerate nothing else. Who say everything else is an offence to their belief and is punishable by death.
When the conservative Christians declare jihad (or it's equivelant) I will be more concerned about their activities. Or when the freedom to disagree with them is removed.
I agree with your general statement here but a quick read up on people like Eric Robert Rudolph and Christian Identity are comparable examples of a "jihad". It does happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
I will accept that these are not mainstream "conservative Christians" if we all agree (and I think we do) that the Muslims "jihadists" are not mainstream conservative Muslims.
All someone has to do is attack the folks that are pushing intelligent design from a scientific standpoint and the argument's over.
At the very least an ID thumper would have to agree that ID theory supports no means of measurement.
I really can't see a scientific classroom discussion on it.
so a few muslim extremists somewhere in the world justifies pushing christian fundamentalism on kids does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
i've just been reading up on islamic beliefs and apparently they believe (it's in the koran) that there was a big bang, and allah just sorted everything out afterwards, in the following 6 days.
the six days may not literally mean six days as day is written as "youm". in other parts of the koran a youm is upto 50'000 years.
No, but then I didn't say that. This is a recurring theme with you, The.Quote:
Originally Posted by GepperRankins
Responding to things which people didn't actually say. Or putting forward arguments against beliefs which people aren't actually expressing.
You are responding to your own prejudices, as opposed to discussing the points other people are making. Don't worry about it tho', it is the rule rather than the exception.
Let me give you an example, not all Christians believe the same things. There is no need for them to, other than some very specific parts. All atheists however believe exactly the same thing, which is that God does not exist. It is therefore, for this particular thing, much easier for me to see where you are coming from than it is for you to see where I am coming from.
You therefore make assumptions, e.g. "Christians do not believe the Big Bang happened" (as a random example, which you may or may not believe) which is no more than a sweeping and largely incorrect generalization. Many Christians believe just that and in the theory of evolution and in the internal combustion engine and that electricity is not some form of witchery.
Like I said, don't worry about it, bias is often based on incorrect assumptions, rather than actual observations.
i think i have a problem coming across clearly, sorry that's my fault.
at no point have i said all christians believe in intelligent design. rather that the fundamental christians that believe the bible to be a 100% accurate historical document. they believe in intelligent design. i was brought up a catholic, i know all about what christians believe.
about the big bang. i never said "christians do not believe the big bang happened", i said the koran said it did happen. it's the islamic story of creation. i just went about and did some googling to see if "intelligent design" fits in with other religions theories, namely islam. i thought it was kind of interesting that apparently it describes the big bang theory.
maybe you should stop making assumptions
Quote:
Originally Posted by GepperRankins
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
i never even hinted that all christians believe the same, or believe what i was taught. all i've been saying is that it's the christian fundamentalists (not all of them, just in case you read that wrong again) are trying to force their views to be taught as science, and that's not on.
you're just being silly about this, i don't even know why i'm arguing about your misunderstanding :shutup:
" i was brought up a catholic, i know all about what christians believe."
How does the fact that you were brought up a Catholic make you "know all about what christians believe". Either you think they all believe the same thing as you, or you have gone on to ask every Christian about what they believe. As the former is highly unlikely then one must assume you believe the latter.
Or you can just accept that it was a ridiculous claim to make.
If I misunderstand it is because I am reading what you type, a courtesy I sometimes feel you do not affford others.
maybe i mean i know there are variations. maybe i mean i know some believe some believe in evolution and some believe in creation, some believe in both.
going to church and doing 4 hours of RE a week, i learnt things. i know there are many different beliefs, you must be stupid or just not believe i went to school to think that
it wasn't a rediculous claim to make
Maybe this, maybe that, but what you said wasQuote:
Originally Posted by GepperRankins
" i was brought up a catholic, i know all about what christians believe."
Which is what people will respond to. Not what you may have meant, but did not type.
You were also brought up as being English, probably even studied it's history, culture and language. I would suggest you also do not know what all English people believe.
It really was a ridiculous claim to make.
Wow...what a post. :ohmy:Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
As some say, spot on.
l once read a debate on what exactly was a Christian. The debate centred around a set number of concepts that it was proposed one would have to believe if one were to call oneself a Christian.
l know they included the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, and others. At one stage it was proposed that the belief extended to the teachings of the Old Testament because Jesus had accepted it as fact. The point the person was making was you cannot call yourself a Christian unless you believe word for word the teachings of the bible, including the literal seven day creation, etc..
You can call yourself whatever you want to, whatever you believe in.. 'tis a free country :snooty:
How others perceive you is somewhat different.
I would call anyone that believes Christ was the "Messiah", 'a christian', irrespective of what other beliefs he/she/it has..
What if someone were to believe that Jesus was a mortal man, who didn't die on the cross, and didn't come back from the dead, and wasn't the result of a virgin birth? l know you'll say he can still call himself a Christian, but would he BE one?
Jeasus was a mortal man.
I tend to agree with JP on this subject (notwithstanding my ironic observation earlier).
ID states nothing more than that there may have been some thought behind the mechanics of the physical universe. The big bang, evolution etc., could, therefore, be consequences of that involvement at the quantum physics level (or perhaps at some level even below this).
ID has nothing to say about revealed religion, a subject that rightly belongs in the hands of those who profess each specific religion.
What more one can say about ID in a class-room setting, though, is questionable. It is extremely unlikely that ordinary schooling is going to break into quantum physics or super string theory let alone start analysing the maths inherent in such theories to see if the pattern is random or whether it displays something else.
It would be wholly dishonest to say ID proves (my) God exists, ergo lets ditch the rest of the science class and study Genesis 1 instead. Indeed if there are those that harbour such aspirations then they should be slapped back in their box forthwith (if not fifthwith). :)