I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

No.

What Israel is doing right now is nothing short of what the Nazi's were doing in the late 30's and early 40's.

How anyone can blindly support a government that is committing genocide is beyond me....and the fact that other governments support it, well now that's just a bit absurd.

WTF?

What genocide?

I believe the Germans started WWII (although a great case is made that the overly-punitive nature of the Versailles Treaty "caused" WWII).

This conflict cannot be characterized as having been sparked by any but Hezbollah's exploits.

At the same time I condemn what the Hezbollah group has done and to some extent what they are doing, as in firing rockets blindly into Israel that has a lot of potential to kill/injure civillians, but I do support them when it comes to fighting the Israeli army, as in, not targeting civillians and using firearms/mortars to fight of the military (defending themselves).

With the case you are attempting to make against Israel, why bother condemning Hezbollah at all?

You cannot condemn them in one breath and excuse them with the next.

I really hope this conflict comes to an end soon, but alas, that is highly unlikely. I want to also say that I have nothing against the Jews, just the Zionists that wish to eradicate an entire race of people, and likewise for the extremist islamic groups that will stop at nothing to eradicate the Jews.

You seem to have something backwards.

The Zionists are the Israeli Jews, and any sentiment expressed by way of genocidal eradication belongs to Hezbollah/Hamas/Syria/Iran/Palestine, not Israel.

As to the end of hostilities, better you wish for an end forever, rather than an end soon.

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology.

I'll settle for a simple (:lol:) elucidation of this particular point.

But I would like to point out something: If you're homeland was taken over by another group of people who wanted nothing more than for you and your kind to pack up and leave, while "they" cut off basic necessities and forced you to live in refugee camps for years on end, would you not pick up a gun and fight?

I sure as hell know that I would.

That was a bit exaggerated, I know full well that before the Holocaust, there were many Jews living in Palestine in harmony with Arabs. It just really makes me mad that what is allowed to happen there goes unnoticed by the rest of the world, and for that matter no one cares about the suffering of the Palestinians. And so they have to resort to drastic measures. While I'm at it, I also condemn suicide attacks and killing of innocent civillians, but pray tell, how can you justify the thousands and thousands of civillians the Israeli's have killed? Americans sure can be blind sometimes to support their government a bit too much, let along another govenment just because they're fighting supposed "terrorists". Sickening.


[/rant]

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I realize that was a rant, but rants aren't productive.

What do you think would be Israel's fate were she not better-armed than her neighbors, and capable of defending herself?

Now, once you've got the answer firmly fixed in your mind, post again, and you might come up with what you really think.

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So defending is defined as attacking other countries and killing their civillians? Also, why do you think the Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers? Instead of automatically pointing the finger at the "terrorists", as the media would have you believe they are (please J2 forgive me, I know you are very well educated man and that last comment isn't directed at you, this first part of the post is a general rebuttle against those that hold the same position/evidence as you do), why not do your research. If you have no bargaining chip to free thousands of innocent people held without any trial, who have nothing to do with terrorist organisations, some of them women and teenagers, well, I'd sure as hell go and capture two or more soldiers of the opposing force to use as bargaining chips. Thank god Hezbollah isn't into the whole beheading trend...

On to your next comment, why can I not diversify? Do I have to STICK WITH ONE THING THROUGHOUT MY ENTIRE LIFE EVEN THOUGH IT'S WRONG...like some republicans and liberals do COUGH COUGH. No I don't, I do know that their tactics are questionable and that some of their acts are completely barbaric (as is like 90% of Israeli military actions) but what they (freedom fighters, terrorists, whatever you want to call them) are doing, fighting for their freedom, that I completely support. No, I will not condemn all their acts just because I condemned a few of them, if you want to call me a flip-flopper so be it, I'm not a brainless person.
Think about it like this, do you fully support Israel? From my point of view, I don't FULLY support Hezbollah, I can find faults, and I know there are faults, so why can you not look for faults in what Israel is doing? Are you that blind? Come on now, you are one of the most learned men on this board, and I respect you for that, please don't let me down.

Your next comment says that all Zionists are Israeli Jews,

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Wikipedia: In 1947 Britain announced its intention to withdraw from Palestine, and on 29 November the United Nations General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state (with Jerusalem becoming an international enclave). The Jewish Agency accepted the plan, while the Arabs of Palestine and the neighboring countries rejected it and commenced to use force to abort the establishment on a Jewish state in the area allotted to it by the UN. Civil conflict between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine ensued immediately. On 14 May 1948 the leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine made a declaration of independence, and the state of Israel was established. This marked a major turning point in the Zionist movement, as its principal goal had now been accomplished. Many Zionist institutions were reshaped, and the three military movements combined to form the Israel Defence Forces.

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So there was supposed to be a Palestinan state, but lets see, why on earth would the Palestinians reject that idea? Oh ya sorry my bad, I completely forgot that they were asked to give away half their land and rename all their borders and become a smaller country...ya ok that sounds pretty good...not.

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my post (hence the [/rant]) and I apologize for that. Here's what I meant:


In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

So defending is defined as attacking other countries and killing their civillians? Also, why do you think the Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers? Instead of automatically pointing the finger at the "terrorists", as the media would have you believe they are (please J2 forgive me, I know you are very well educated man and that last comment isn't directed at you, this post is a general rebuttle against those that hold the same position/evidence as you do), why not do your research. If you have no bargaining chip to free thousands of innocent people held without any trial, who have nothing to do with terrorist organisations, some of them women and teenagers, well, I'd sure as hell go and capture two or more soldiers of the opposing force to use as bargaining chips. Thank god Hezbollah isn't into the whole beheading trend...

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As to that last, I'll reserve judgement.

Last I looked, any armed conflict begins with a first move, and that one's on Hezbollah...once the festivities begin, neither side owes the other quarter, and, truth be told, I think Israel has shown admirable restraint; war these days should be conducted so as to induce one side or the other to utterly surrender it's motivating intent-in other words, everything goes, this side of WMD.

Israel has not done this.

I don't feel it is productive or telling to bring up past events, especially in this case, because you'd soon be discussing Genesis; there is no proper beginning to it.

If the situation with prisoners goes begging, both sides can wipe that slate clean by killing all of them either holds, then going from there.

It would (at least) eliminate that point of contention, wouldn't it? :dry:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

So defending is defined as attacking other countries and killing their civillians? Also, why do you think the Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers? Instead of automatically pointing the finger at the "terrorists", as the media would have you believe they are (please J2 forgive me, I know you are very well educated man and that last comment isn't directed at you, this post is a general rebuttle against those that hold the same position/evidence as you do), why not do your research. If you have no bargaining chip to free thousands of innocent people held without any trial, who have nothing to do with terrorist organisations, some of them women and teenagers, well, I'd sure as hell go and capture two or more soldiers of the opposing force to use as bargaining chips. Thank god Hezbollah isn't into the whole beheading trend...

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As to that last, I'll reserve judgement.

Last I looked, any armed conflict begins with a first move, and that one's on Hezbollah...once the festivities begin, neither side owes the other quarter, and, truth be told, I think Israel has shown admirable restraint; war these days should be conducted so as to induce one side or the other to utterly surrender it's motivating intent-in other words, everything goes, this side of WMD.

Israel has not done this.

I don't feel it is productive or telling to bring up past events, especially in this case, because you'd soon be discussing Genesis; there is no proper beginning to it.

If the situation with prisoners goes begging, both sides can wipe that slate clean by killing all of them either holds, then going from there.

It would (at least) eliminate that point of contention, wouldn't it? :dry:

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So, kill 2 Israeli Non-commisioned officers who will never amount to anything other than Infantry soldiers along with the thousands and thousands of innocent captives being held by Israel, mostly women and teenagers (yes there are criminals and terrorists amongst that populous, but a fraction of them only). If that will wipe the slate clean, then so be it, why not just kill the entire Palestinian population, while you're at it, go forward of it and kill off the Lebanese and the Syrians and perhaps some Egyptians, because one thing I've come to learn in today's sad world, is that no one in the West will think twice, the newsnetworks will broadcast the "defense of Israel (killing the thousands of captives)" and the "massacre of 2 soldiers" for a few days and all will be normal.

And please do tell, why we cannot discuss "who started it", where the heck did Genesis come from, this has nothing to do with origins of Life (probably a rhetorical statement but right now I'm not in the thinking state). They captured those 2 Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips to settle a score that Israel had brought upon itself, one day we all have to answer for our sins regardless of race, religion and beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Ah... the 25% of the population, that is restricted to 3% of the land... 95% of which is open for developmet to Jews only...

It's worth emphasizing that "Israeli democracy" is an incarnation of Apartheid South Africa's democracy.

It also could be argued that Apartheid South Africa was for a very long time the only democracy in Africa, however, it was a democracy for the White race only. Similarly, democracy in Israel was and still is designed to empower Jews only based on their religion.

At one point, Israel has to choose between being a "Democratic Jewish State" or a "Democratic State" to all of its citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike.

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Just one small problem with the south african analogy. Are south africans targeted throughout the world because of who they are? I have spoken with many south africans while they were travelling here in my country and none of them ever reported that kind of thing away from their native region. I have heard alot of things happening there, but when they travel elsewhere, like asia for instance, are they being targeted just because they are south african? I think the answer is no. The idea of Israel is a place for Jews to live in peace without fanatic dickheads like you trying to kill them. Simple as that. Do you think you are fooling anybody on this forum? What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"? The end result would be the same, although the reasoning might be different. Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Ah... the 25% of the population, that is restricted to 3% of the land... 95% of which is open for developmet to Jews only...

It's worth emphasizing that "Israeli democracy" is an incarnation of Apartheid South Africa's democracy.

It also could be argued that Apartheid South Africa was for a very long time the only democracy in Africa, however, it was a democracy for the White race only. Similarly, democracy in Israel was and still is designed to empower Jews only based on their religion.

At one point, Israel has to choose between being a "Democratic Jewish State" or a "Democratic State" to all of its citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike.

---

Just one small problem with the south african analogy. Are south africans targeted throughout the world because of who they are? I have spoken with many south africans while they were travelling here in my country and none of them ever reported that kind of thing away from their native region. I have heard alot of things happening there, but when they travel elsewhere, like asia for instance, are they being targeted just because they are south african? I think the answer is no. The idea of Israel is a place for Jews to live in peace without fanatic dickheads like you trying to kill them.

RF does not want to kill Jews, so you can just calm down. Ask a Jew, is he targeted when he travels to other countries (within reason, i.e. not to Arab countries, I'll get to that in a second), go ahead ask, I'll wait.


Ok good.



Simple as that. Do you think you are fooling anybody on this forum?

If he were fooling anyone, it would be you.

What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"?

What makes you different then a stereotypical facist SOB? Nothing. The Koran said it was right? Please, go read the Quran first then come back and post something intelligent. Why do you think all the Arab countries hate Israel and the Jews so much? Because of what Israel does and is doing. They (Israel/military/gov't) know damn well how to enrage the other Arab countries and piss em off good, use that as a catalyst, and when the "terrorists" strike back, they use that event as a shield and unleash hell. If Israel didn't do that and learned in the early 50's late 40's how to live in peace, Jews could roam the Earth freely just like everyone else.

The end result would be the same, although the reasoning might be different.

What end result? The fact that he'd kill someone? So you're saying that killing someone is killing a Jew? How does that exactly work? In that case, by your standards, the entire world is anti-semitic, even the Jews!

Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

Only aggressors that would want to invade his country and take it away from him, an analogy to how the idea of Israel stole the land of Palestine. People like you are all talk, I know that I would defend my country and my land if it were invaded or taken away unrightfully, and yes, I am in the Air Force currently under ROTP so my credentials stand.

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

If man did not have opinion, we'd all be Bush's cronies.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

Evidence is key, did you see the video? Thought so.

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So very sad of a person you are.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

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Originally Posted by j2k4

As to that last, I'll reserve judgement.

Last I looked, any armed conflict begins with a first move, and that one's on Hezbollah...once the festivities begin, neither side owes the other quarter, and, truth be told, I think Israel has shown admirable restraint; war these days should be conducted so as to induce one side or the other to utterly surrender it's motivating intent-in other words, everything goes, this side of WMD.

Israel has not done this.

I don't feel it is productive or telling to bring up past events, especially in this case, because you'd soon be discussing Genesis; there is no proper beginning to it.

If the situation with prisoners goes begging, both sides can wipe that slate clean by killing all of them either holds, then going from there.

It would (at least) eliminate that point of contention, wouldn't it? :dry:

---

So, kill 2 Israeli Non-commisioned officers who will never amount to anything other than Infantry soldiers along with the thousands and thousands of innocent captives being held by Israel, mostly women and teenagers (yes there are criminals and terrorists amongst that populous, but a fraction of them only). If that will wipe the slate clean, then so be it, why not just kill the entire Palestinian population, while you're at it, go forward of it and kill off the Lebanese and the Syrians and perhaps some Egyptians, because one thing I've come to learn in today's sad world, is that no one in the West will think twice, the newsnetworks will broadcast the "defense of Israel (killing the thousands of captives)" and the "massacre of 2 soldiers" for a few days and all will be normal.

And please do tell, why we cannot discuss "who started it", where the heck did Genesis come from, this has nothing to do with origins of Life (probably a rhetorical statement but right now I'm not in the thinking state). They captured those 2 Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips to settle a score that Israel had brought upon itself, one day we all have to answer for our sins regardless of race, religion and beliefs.

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Israel has no obligation to keep going along with bargaining chips. At some point there is a cut off.

I do tire of the lastest terrorist strike being mere a footnote or not mentioned at all but if a kid is at the end of an Israeli bullet, there's a fucking thread about it.

Hezbollah is thoroughly entrenched in Lebanon and the two are not easily separated. Lebanon seems to not do shit all about it besides a denunciation out in the open.

Maybe if muslims want an end to violence maybe they should fuck off and not provoke an attack. Middle eastern jews and muslims are like two dumb ass gangs claiming revenge for shit they started.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

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I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

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I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

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Very well put. I seem to have missed that point completely. Yes you are right, that there are countries in that region that would like nothing more than to destroy Israel, but does Israel deserve it? I mean, there were many Jews living in Palestine before the creation of Israel. Why not just change the name of Israel back to Palestine, that's the easy way out :whistling


Alas, it all goes back to who "started it" which is as childish as "which came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma.

It's sad that you and I can admit our mistakes, learn from them (most of the times), and move on, while both the Arabs and the Zionists/Jews can never comprehend that concept.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

RF does not want to kill Jews, so you can just calm down. Ask a Jew, is he targeted when he travels to other countries (within reason, i.e. not to Arab countries, I'll get to that in a second), go ahead ask, I'll wait.

Within reason? I like your politically correct scales, may I borrow them? And are you implying that arab countries "don't count"? Isn't that one of the reasons that the arab nations want so badly to fight the west right now, because of that kind of "they don't count" treatment they get from the west?


Jews are being targeted right now, throughout the world, but normally it's not in a physical way(but I will say I don't think I would feel very safe in France). When I look at news reports on TV, they have a tendency to show pictures of two things. Small palastinian babies(or recently lebanese) or young children lying dead and Israeli soldiers holding guns. What the news cannot get wrong is the numbers of rockets fired and things like that. Do you really think that a significant number of rockets can be fired at a city like haifa and not hit children? Is haifa a city free of children? When it happens, and it does happen, that kind of thing gets edited out. I don't watch BBC I'm commenting on American news outlets here.


What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"?

What makes you different then a stereotypical facist SOB? Nothing. The Koran said it was right? Please, stfu and go read the Quran first then come back and post something intelligent.


Here is a quote from the Koran:
> And We had made known to the children of Israel in the Book: Most certainly you will make mischief in the land twice, and most certainly you will behave insolently with great insolence.

I can find some others if you want to argue that bad


Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

Only aggressors that would want to invade his country and take it away from him, an analogy to how the idea of Israel stole the land of Palestine.


We have discussed the ownership of land thing before that's an entirely different thread. I can post a link to it if you are that bored.

If man did not have opinion, we'd all be Bush's cronies.


dude, that's like, deep..... :)


Evidence is key, did you see the video? Thought so.
[/B]

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If you had read my post more carefully, I didn't say that it happened. I was commenting on the fact that an interesting piece of information went unnoticed.

wtf?? so, cpt_azad, instead of giving a rebuttal to my post you go back and edit the quotes that i quoted from yours?

What a coward, stand up and fight like a man. What would hezbollah think of your cowardly ways? Oh that's right, they would launch a rocket at Israeli civilians. Or better, Hamas :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Ah... the 25% of the population, that is restricted to 3% of the land... 95% of which is open for developmet to Jews only...

It's worth emphasizing that "Israeli democracy" is an incarnation of Apartheid South Africa's democracy.

It also could be argued that Apartheid South Africa was for a very long time the only democracy in Africa, however, it was a democracy for the White race only. Similarly, democracy in Israel was and still is designed to empower Jews only based on their religion.

At one point, Israel has to choose between being a "Democratic Jewish State" or a "Democratic State" to all of its citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike.

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Just one small problem with the south african analogy. Are south africans targeted throughout the world because of who they are? I have spoken with many south africans while they were travelling here in my country and none of them ever reported that kind of thing away from their native region. I have heard alot of things happening there, but when they travel elsewhere, like asia for instance, are they being targeted just because they are south african? I think the answer is no.

Think back to when they still had apartheid. There were sanctions against them from most of the world, some of the countries having internal policies on Race/Creed little better than their own.

The idea of Israel is a place for Jews to live in peace without fanatic dickheads like you trying to kill them. Simple as that. Do you think you are fooling anybody on this forum? What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"? The end result would be the same, although the reasoning might be different. Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

No-one. I didnt want to kill anyone, and luckily i never did.

I also disagree with your opinion that I'm anti-Jewish, there is plenty of evidence on this board that I'm not. My Fiancee is a Jew ffs.

Anti-Israeli? No.. I believe that Israel has a right to exist, I dont believe that it has the right to kill every fucker it wants to and call it "Self Defence". Before it gets sympathy from me re all this shit, it needs to put its own house in order, simple as that.

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

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I think everyone here has already said that they understand about targeting Hizbollah and that Israel has the right to attack them.

Now show me the video of Hizbollah in the International Airport, Tripoli, Field Hospitals, Red Cross Convoys, UN Observation Post and Refugee Columns that were targeted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

---

I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

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One thing here that disposes of your entire argument..

The proposals in 2003 orginating in Saudi and agreed with the entire Arab League, which would have had Israel and its right to exist recognised by every Arab State. These were dimissed out of hand by Israel and the USA, despite being the fairest "Peace Offer" to date.

I think the general thrust was... go back to the Borders of 1967, however if you've already settled part, no problem..give the equivalent amount of land from somewhere else and keep the settled area. Forget about the UN resolution on the returnee's.

This comes down to the Strongest Country in the Middle East is bombing the crap out of the Weakest.

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

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I think everyone here has already said that they understand about targeting Hizbollah and that Israel has the right to attack them.

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It's not even that, Paul. If that(video footage) were true, about them(hezbollah) using that particular house as a hiding place for their rocket launcher, then that would be fairly clear evidence of them(hezbollah) using their own civilians as human sheilds. Women and children at that.

Soooo... a quick recap of the chain of events that led up to the 48 partial ceasefire would be:

1-An Israeli airstrike on the city of Qana left ~56 people dead, mostly women and children

2-In the wake of the strike, international pressure caused the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert to agree to a 48 hour partial ceasefire. Meanwhile the Israeli military would investigate the incident.

3-During her mideast visit, Condoleezza Rice was forced to cut short her mission and make some conciliatory comments with regards to the attack, and also hint that in respose she would push for a (cease fire oriented)resolution at the U.N. Security Council this week.

4-At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.


>quote-I also disagree with your opinion that I'm anti-Jewish, there is plenty of evidence on this board that I'm not. My Fiancee is a Jew ffs.

Oh please, does that really prove anything? Is George Bush a "black friendly president" just because he picked Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to be his "hey look at me, how much i like black people" Secretary of State? Were you born here, you would have made a good Republican.

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

wtf?? so, cpt_azad, instead of giving a rebuttal to my post you go back and edit the quotes that i quoted from yours?

What a coward, stand up and fight like a man. What would hezbollah think of your cowardly ways? Oh that's right, they would launch a rocket at Israeli civilians. Or better, Hamas :)

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Laziness and cowardness are two completely different things, learn the difference my friend it can come in handy sometimes :). Stand up and fight like a man? What exactly will I be fighting? Israel? Then I'd be automatically labelled as a "terrorist" by you and your redneck friends, but you know what? I'd gladly fight Israel if I were in the position to do so. The injustices done by Israel will have to be answered one day, and the injustices caused by the "terrorists" too, I'm not biased, I don't strongly believe in one thing while exempting it for another group. Both groups have done wrong, one more than the other, guess which group that is.

Launching a rocket at civillians compared to launching a laser guided ordinance with deadly accuracy at civillians are also two completely different things, do you not remember those civillians/families killed on the beach by a helicopter using precision bombs? Oh right, I bet you probably don't thanks to your CNN and FOX news.

Listen my friend, my fight isn't with you, but for as long as I live I will be targeted by your kind because I have an opinion that differs from your's and that of Bush's, and for that I will not apologize at all because unlike others of my generation I believe Freedom of Speech is a right, something that most Americans seem not to care about anymore, they will just conform to whatever the media tells them and play along believing what the government wants them to believe, which if I'm not mistakened is called laziness (at least to some extent), do your own research, make up your own opinions, and I know that there is no way in hell that I will ever change your opinion and I completely respect that, at least you have an argument to make with some really bad evidence nonetheless, but hey at least your trying. Call me whatever you want, terrorist, hippie, liberal, anti-semite, just ask yourself one thing, what would you do if you are in the shoes of a Palestinian?

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

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One thing here that disposes of your entire argument..

The proposals in 2003 orginating in Saudi and agreed with the entire Arab League, which would have had Israel and its right to exist recognised by every Arab State. These were dimissed out of hand by Israel and the USA, despite being the fairest "Peace Offer" to date.

I think the general thrust was... go back to the Borders of 1967, however if you've already settled part, no problem..give the equivalent amount of land from somewhere else and keep the settled area. Forget about the UN resolution on the returnee's.

This comes down to the Strongest Country in the Middle East is bombing the crap out of the Weakest.

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No it doesn't.

Stop fucking with the strongest country then.

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

One thing here that disposes of your entire argument..

The proposals in 2003 orginating in Saudi and agreed with the entire Arab League, which would have had Israel and its right to exist recognised by every Arab State. These were dimissed out of hand by Israel and the USA, despite being the fairest "Peace Offer" to date.

I think the general thrust was... go back to the Borders of 1967, however if you've already settled part, no problem..give the equivalent amount of land from somewhere else and keep the settled area. Forget about the UN resolution on the returnee's.

This comes down to the Strongest Country in the Middle East is bombing the crap out of the Weakest.

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No it doesn't.

Stop fucking with the strongest country then.

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So all the other countries should just stop "fucking" with the strongest country because of the fact they are the strongest country in the M.E.? Sorry Busy, they aren't that cowardly as to not stand up and say to themselves "Oh wow, what Israel is doing is completely insane, I gotta do something".

Of course, suiciding bombings and killing Israeli civillians is 110% wrong in any case, but what justifies Israel killing Palestinian civillians? Isn't that also 110% wrong? Why would you exempt that for Israel while condeming the others for it? Are they that special? Also, how many more Palestinian+Lebanese+Syrian civillians have died compared to Israeli civillians?

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

No it doesn't.

Stop fucking with the strongest country then.

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So all the other countries should just stop "fucking" with the strongest country because of the fact they are the strongest country in the M.E.? Sorry Busy, they aren't that cowardly as to not stand up and say to themselves "Oh wow, what Israel is doing is completely insane, I gotta do something".

Of course, suiciding bombings and killing Israeli civillians is 110% wrong in any case, but what justifies Israel killing Palestinian civillians? Isn't that also 110% wrong? Why would you exempt that for Israel while condeming the others for it? Are they that special? Also, how many more Palestinian+Lebanese+Syrian civillians have died compared to Israeli civillians?

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You are saying the same shit in reverse. and now we're starting.....

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Middle eastern jews and muslims are like two dumb ass gangs claiming revenge for shit they started.

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Also the point was, it doesn't just come down to the strongest country bombing the weakest.

Both countries fight with their strengths. One can't suicide bomb a crowded bus then one-sidedly complain that they were too bombed in a different manner in response.

Suicide bombers targets are only civilian in Israel. What comes of that? An Israeli response. If Israel does nothing for 2 months they'd get suicide bombs, rockets, and/or kidnappings for their trouble.

Ya damn right it's not just "this comes down to the strongest country bombing the weakest".

Again, stop fucking with the stronger country.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

Oh right, I bet you probably don't thanks to your CNN and FOX news.

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Like the eccentric man portrayed in this article, I don't own a television so I don't watch cnn very often. I would not watch fox regardless, except to poke fun at it. The only time I watch TV is when I'm at the pub and it happens to be on.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

Then I'd be automatically labelled as a "terrorist" by you and your redneck friends,

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I do not normally use that word, it's a propaganda tool. When I do, I use it in parenthesis like I have done above. I have even gone so far as to claim, on this very forum, that there is no such thing as terrorism, only "scararism" which is the same concept as the parent telling the little child about the monster under his/her bed that will do something bad to him/her if he/she does not behave. In a similar fashion did those in positions of power in this country put everyone(in this country at least) on guard after September 11th and had everyone beat down into submission with fear so they would pass the hideous "patriot act".

and what you are saying to busy about how many israeli's killed versus how many lebanese and palastinian killed,

compare the total world jewish population, which is not more than 1% of world population to the total arab population of palastine, lebanon, syria, jordan, ect....


then maybe you might see that the arab nations have more people, iran in particular has made headlines lately to the tune of "we will sacrifice our lives for....." the idea is that if you die for a religious cause you will go to heaven

but if they kill enough israeli's in the process, there will be arabs leftover but no israelis

obviously, the israelis don't want that

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

Like the eccentric man portrayed in this article, I don't own a television so I don't watch cnn very often. I would not watch fox regardless, except to poke fun at it. The only time I watch TV is when I'm at the pub and it happens to be on.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

Then I'd be automatically labelled as a "terrorist" by you and your redneck friends,

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I do not normally use that word, it's a propaganda tool. When I do, I use it in parenthesis like I have done above. I have even gone so far as to claim, on this very forum, that there is no such thing as terrorism, only "scararism" which is the same concept as the parent telling the little child about the monster under his/her bed that will do something bad to him/her if he/she does not behave. In a similar fashion did those in positions of power in this country put everyone(in this country at least) on guard after September 11th and had everyone beat down into submission with fear so they would pass the hideous "patriot act".

and what you are saying to busy about how many israeli's killed versus how many lebanese and palastinian killed,

compare the total world jewish population, which is not more than 1% of world population to the total arab population of palastine, lebanon, syria, jordan, ect....


then maybe you might see that the arab nations have more people, iran in particular has made headlines lately to the tune of "we will sacrifice our lives for....." the idea is that if you die for a religious cause you will go to heaven

but if they kill enough israeli's in the process, there will be arabs leftover but no israelis

obviously, the israelis don't want that

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"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

Just a simple comparison that people just won't answer (I think I've stated it 3 times now including this post): Precision bombing and random rocket fire, which one is more intentional? Both result in the killing of innocent civillians, but one of those options you know EXACTLY what your gonna end up with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

Like the eccentric man portrayed in this article, I don't own a television so I don't watch cnn very often. I would not watch fox regardless, except to poke fun at it. The only time I watch TV is when I'm at the pub and it happens to be on.



I do not normally use that word, it's a propaganda tool. When I do, I use it in parenthesis like I have done above. I have even gone so far as to claim, on this very forum, that there is no such thing as terrorism, only "scararism" which is the same concept as the parent telling the little child about the monster under his/her bed that will do something bad to him/her if he/she does not behave. In a similar fashion did those in positions of power in this country put everyone(in this country at least) on guard after September 11th and had everyone beat down into submission with fear so they would pass the hideous "patriot act".

and what you are saying to busy about how many israeli's killed versus how many lebanese and palastinian killed,

compare the total world jewish population, which is not more than 1% of world population to the total arab population of palastine, lebanon, syria, jordan, ect....


then maybe you might see that the arab nations have more people, iran in particular has made headlines lately to the tune of "we will sacrifice our lives for....." the idea is that if you die for a religious cause you will go to heaven

but if they kill enough israeli's in the process, there will be arabs leftover but no israelis

obviously, the israelis don't want that

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"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

Just a simple comparison that people just won't answer (I think I've stated it 3 times now including this post): Precision bombing and random rocket fire, which one is more intentional? Both result in the killing of innocent civillians, but one of those options you know EXACTLY what your gonna end up with.

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So again, you are one-sided. Suicide bombers go after civilians. Precision instruments are still at the mercy of human error.

@ MediaSlayer,

small point, but important to Arabs...

Iran isn't an Arab Nation, they're Persian.. Generally the two groups dont get on well...

It is Islamic (waaaayyyyyyy Islamic..) however, so the point stands in part if you change "Arab Nations" to "Islamic Nations"...

Ah... but then it falls again, because Lebanon is neither an Arab Nation nor an Islamic one... Its mixed (waaayyyy Mixed) with the Christians usually holding the balance of power.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

Just a simple comparison that people just won't answer (I think I've stated it 3 times now including this post): Precision bombing and random rocket fire, which one is more intentional? Both result in the killing of innocent civillians, but one of those options you know EXACTLY what your gonna end up with.

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So again, you are one-sided. Suicide bombers go after civilians. Precision instruments are still at the mercy of human error.

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Are you fucking kidding me dude? Precision instruments are still at the mercy of human error? Please don't fool yourself. NOT once did I say suicide bombers don't go after civi's, I said random rocket fire to some extent isn't targeted at civillians although they have huge potential, random rocket fire and suicide bombings are two completely different things. If I'm one sided, then what are you? Do a google/wiki search on IR and/or LG bombs, check to see how accurate they are. From the point they launch to the point they hit, a laser or sensor needs to be pinpointing it's exact location, as in an aircraft (fighter jet, helicopter) using a laser to designate the exact location to be hit by the missile/bomb. The only way that human error could be accounted into the mix is if the military has faulty information on the whereabouts of the "terrorists" are, which is 100% flawed, here's why:

-If the military does not know where the militants/terrorists are, then why on earth would they be so hasty and rushed to start precision bombing randomly, isn't that the exact same as the random rocket attacks by Hezbollah?

-If Israel, for whatever reason, gets wrong information and whereabouts about the militants, don't you think by now they would have given up on their faulty sources and gone on to other sources?

The point stands, precision bombing is almost impossible to be susceptible to human error, the only susceptibility that lies there within is if the information on the location the bomb is to be dropped is false, or if the pilot that is directing the bomb to it's target is a sadistic son of a bitch and no better then the people they are fighting (along with his/her Commanding Officer to give them such authority).

I don't blame you Busy for not knowing about precision bombing, but you know, best to do your research first then post. And please don't bring up the age-old rebuttle of "jammers" used to misguide the bombs, the models that Israel are using right now are top of the line laser guided (or IR) bombs/missiles, if Hezbollah could magically invent a jammer that could interfere with their signals, then by now the war would be over cuz they would be able to invent a million other unimaginable things.

If you consider me one-sided then fine, your opinion. I have time and time agains stated my dislike for the tactics used by Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., you can't ignore that. But fighting for freedom, then I'm hella one sided on that topic just like I (or any caring person) would be one-sided on the topic of animal cruelty.

Read then post (this one goes out to MediaSlayer):

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/2...mong_Civilians

And this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vK2xKURlt...kers_in_Hebron

video proof.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

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Originally Posted by Busyman

So again, you are one-sided. Suicide bombers go after civilians. Precision instruments are still at the mercy of human error.

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Are you fucking kidding me dude? Precision instruments are still at the mercy of human error? Please don't fool yourself. NOT once did I say suicide bombers don't go after civi's, I said random rocket fire to some extent isn't targeted at civillians although they have huge potential, random rocket fire and suicide bombings are two completely different things. If I'm one sided, then what are you? Do a google/wiki search on IR and/or LG bombs, check to see how accurate they are. From the point they launch to the point they hit, a laser or sensor needs to be pinpointing it's exact location, as in an aircraft (fighter jet, helicopter) using a laser to designate the exact location to be hit by the missile/bomb. The only way that human error could be accounted into the mix is if the military has faulty information on the whereabouts of the "terrorists" are, which is 100% flawed, here's why:

-If the military does not know where the militants/terrorists are, then why on earth would they be so hasty and rushed to start precision bombing randomly, isn't that the exact same as the random rocket attacks by Hezbollah?

-If Israel, for whatever reason, gets wrong information and whereabouts about the militants, don't you think by now they would have given up on their faulty sources and gone on to other sources?

The point stands, precision bombing is almost impossible to be susceptible to human error, the only susceptibility that lies there within is if the information on the location the bomb is to be dropped is false, or if the pilot that is directing the bomb to it's target is a sadistic son of a bitch and no better then the people they are fighting (along with his/her Commanding Officer to give them such authority).

I don't blame you Busy for not knowing about precision bombing, but you know, best to do your research first then post. And please don't bring up the age-old rebuttle of "jammers" used to misguide the bombs, the models that Israel are using right now are top of the line laser guided (or IR) bombs/missiles, if Hezbollah could magically invent a jammer that could interfere with their signals, then by now the war would be over cuz they would be able to invent a million other unimaginable things.

If you consider me one-sided then fine, your opinion. I have time and time agains stated my dislike for the tactics used by Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., you can't ignore that. But fighting for freedom, then I'm hella one sided on that topic just like I (or any caring person) would be one-sided on the topic of animal cruelty.

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If the wrong target is picked that's human error.:stars: If it's picked on purpose then it's not. A place is bombed based on intel to turns out to be wrong. The bomb can be precision as all get out. Thanks for the long post.:blink:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

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Where do you think those hardliners, militants, militias, and "organisations" come from? Do they fall out of the sky? Although many of them are grown men(and women) now, they were once little innocent children, civilians, ect...

The point is this: they are not so different from each other. They get pissed off and decide to be radical, but there was a time I'm sure that they were normal people just like you and me.

I dint click on your links as I am about to go to sleep for the night. I might click on them later though, thank you for pointing out my point was valid :lol:

shirley u cant be serious

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

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Where do you think those hardliners, militants, militias, and "organisations" come from? Do they fall out of the sky? Although many of them are grown men(and women) now, they were once little innocent children, civilians, ect...

The point is this: they are not so different from each other. They get pissed off and decide to be radical, but there was a time I'm sure that they were normal people just like you and me.

I dint click on your links as I am about to go to sleep for the night. I might click on them later though, thank you for pointing out my point was valid :lol:

shirley u cant be serious

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By your your logic all Palestinian children are murderers and terrorists, that's a nice thought. So what of the Israeli children, are they too not to some extent (if not greater extent since the Israeli's have the vast amount of weapons and training) murderers too?

@Busy, if it's faulty intel then yes it's human error, but most of these attacks aren't based on faulty intel, if it were they would come out and say it was faulty intel to get the heat off their back. The recent attack that killed 37 children was not condemned by Israel, is that not an intentional attack then?

To all those that think the Israeli's are better than the terrorist they're fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_...Fitemid%3D1794

This is just one documented instance that was "leaked", there are probably thousands more that have never seen the light of day and even thousands more that weren't documented.

But terrorist act's, suicidal or not, are well documented and released to the public.

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

To all those that think the Israeli's are better than the terrorist they're fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_...Fitemid%3D1794

This is just one documented instance that was "leaked", there are probably thousands more that have never seen the light of day and even thousands more that weren't documented.

But terrorist act's, suicidal or not, are well documented and released to the public.

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Maybe the folks fucking with Israel should stop starting shit.

Who do you think keeps touching off most of the skirmishes?

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

By your your logic all Palestinian children are murderers and terrorists, that's a nice thought. So what of the Israeli children, are they too not to some extent (if not greater extent since the Israeli's have the vast amount of weapons and training) murderers too?

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My logic was saying that all Palestinian, Iranian, Lebanese, ect... children have the potential to be extreme and violent, and these days that is where the trend seems to be going. The situation in Iraq does not help. I do not support that war for that very reason.

I don't think the Israeli children are in the same situation as far as wanting to die in a heroic way fighting the enemy, I don't think those kind of sacrifice themes appeal to them as with the others in that region. Theirs is probably more of a self defense type urge, as is the case here in the states. The few friends I have in the military dont dream of dying in Iraq for a noble cause. They dream of coming home safe.

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Maybe the folks fucking with Israel should stop starting shit.

Who do you think keeps touching off most of the skirmishes?

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Actually Israel does as regards to Hezbollah.

The UNIFIL reports have always said there were the odd skirmish, mostly prompted by Israeli Invasion of Lebanese Airspace, which occured "almost daily". Most skirmishes happened around the Shebaa Farms area, which Lebanon still claims.. ie: Occupied Territory (and therefore, as far as Hezbollah are concerned, within Lebanese Territory), or within Lebanon.

There are only 6 countries in the world that count Hezbollah a "Terrorist Organisation". The EU recently told the US to take a run and jump when they were requested to count them as such.

The reasons are:

They have always acted like, and have always maintained they are, a resistance force.

Until this Israeli attack, Hezbollah have always operated inside Labanon and have always attacked only military targets.

They have always condemned attacks by anyone; Islamic or Otherwise, that killed Innocents deliberately. Including 9/11.

They have banned all their members from going to Iraq and condemed all the attacks in Iraq that have not been aimed at occuping forces directly, by which they mean "Military". They have condemned kidnapping of civilians there and called the purpetrators Barbaric and traitors to Islam.


This all started because 2 soldiers were kidnapped on the face of it.. but is it really?

The Hezbollah attack was staged to capture soldiers to use for a prisoner-exchange with Israel, a strategy adopted by both sides in the past. According to Human Rights Watch, targeting and capture of enemy soldiers is allowed under international humanitarian law.

Both Israel and Hezbollah have used this tactic many times in the past against each other, and then negotiated peacefully around the issue with no problems. Indeed, Brigadier General Meir Caliphi recently said the only real activity from Hezbollah was when Israeli planes invaded Lebanese airspace and they fired anti-aircraft guns. Only two civilians sustained minor injuries as a result of the shelling, he said.

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'It may go against military logic,' Caliphi admitted, 'but I think that it is important to continue with the policy of restraint. So long as we can keep the quiet here.'

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He went on to admit that this was partly because:

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They saw that in Jenin we were willing to ravage a refugee camp in order to gain quiet, even if we did not use F-16 aircraft. They know the implications to their region,' he said. The Brigadier General had no qualms about saying that any incursion by Hezbollah could result in an attack on the Lebanon government, and also said Syria could be a target.

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There is something that has not been mentioned that is different though, and it has nothing to do with Hezbollah and everything to do with Mossad and Lebanon.

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Last month Lebanon's daily newspaper, The Daily Star, reported that in June this year the Lebanese Army's intelligence agency uncovered an Israeli spy cell in Lebanon which had managed to carry out several assassinations across the country. Mahmoud Rafeh, was named as the leader of a 'Mossad-linked terrorist network,' and it was reported that he had admitted carrying out assassinations and spying for Israel. Judicial sources told The Daily Star Rafeh admitted receiving a list of names of Lebanese and Palestinian political figures to be assassinated on orders from Israel.

During interrogation, said The Daily Star report, Rafeh admitted to the killing of Islamic Jihad member Mahmoud Majzoub and his brother Nidal in May. He also claimed the killing of Hezbollah officials Ali Hassan Deeb and Ali Saleh on August 16, 1999 and August 2, 2003, respectively, and that of Jihad Jibril, the son of the leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command leader, Ahmad Jibril, in May 20, 2002. However, he denied any involvement in a string of assassinations in Beirut last year including that of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, and having any knowledge of who was behind the attacks. Before the current war began on July 12, Military Investigating Magistrate Adnan Bolbol had been expected to begin questioning witnesses in the Mossad case in July, sources told The Daily Star.

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So just maybe, they just dont want their Agent questioned regarding the Assasination of a certain Prime Minister?

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

To all those that think the Israeli's are better than the terrorist they're fighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_...Fitemid%3D1794

This is just one documented instance that was "leaked", there are probably thousands more that have never seen the light of day and even thousands more that weren't documented.

But terrorist act's, suicidal or not, are well documented and released to the public.

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Maybe the folks fucking with Israel should stop starting shit.

Who do you think keeps touching off most of the skirmishes?

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Since your comment was quoted by my video, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you just said that skirmishes are orchestrated by families with kids, nice one.

Most skirmishes are carried out in retaliation to something that Israel had done preceeding the actual skirmish. It's the whole "which came first" argument, we can argue about it for years, and we'd both be right (or wrong).

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Maybe the folks fucking with Israel should stop starting shit.

Who do you think keeps touching off most of the skirmishes?

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Since your comment was quoted by my video, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you just said that skirmishes are orchestrated by families with kids, nice one.

Most skirmishes are carried out in retaliation to something that Israel had done preceeding the actual skirmish. It's the whole "which came first" argument, we can argue about it for years, and we'd both be right (or wrong).

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I never clicked your vid, tbh.

To your last, complaints of brutality can't be claimed by either side then, can it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpt_azad

Since your comment was quoted by my video, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you just said that skirmishes are orchestrated by families with kids, nice one.

Most skirmishes are carried out in retaliation to something that Israel had done preceeding the actual skirmish. It's the whole "which came first" argument, we can argue about it for years, and we'd both be right (or wrong).

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I never clicked your vid, tbh.

To your last, complaints of brutality can't be claimed by either side then, can it?

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Ah, but that would depend on who's complaining and who is reclaiming? The palestinians? Or the Israelis? Again, that argument arises "which came first, the chicken or the egg". Right or wrong, evil or good, both depends on the point of view of the particular person that is making the argument.