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dam it torrentt :)
you are stubborn
i said it before isrealis are stubborn
any way
well, it will make a hell of difference if we come to understanding.
and those groups you are talking about will have no place when peace take place and we will haunt them down in both sides if they won't stop their militaryacts.
and we don't want isreal we want the occupied lands.
mean while the only one who hunts them down is israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
u have your police. but its hard when u'r government is a terror group.
SAM, you must realize that there will be greater resistance if muslim fucks keep bombing everyone.
I'm sure there are Israelis that just wanna wipe Palestinians the fuck out. There would be more sympathy if folks were peaceful about it.
I doubt blacks in America would have made inroads if we all decided to "kill whitey" en masse. It would've made those whites that felt our plight go along with the racist white fucks.
@torrentt
we all hunting down terrorist groups but me and you have a different definition for terrorism while you consider anyone raises a gun against your occupation troops is terrorist ,i consider them a legal resistance.
and to don't get me wrong osama ben laden is terrorist no doubt but not all islamic groups out there are terrorist
and I'm from Egypt and by country is ruled by an elected government not a group of terror .
from your words it seems you don't want to give peace chance only because you think it won't do you any good
man , every time Palestine and isreal gad a truth ; isreal went a bomb a town or cut electricity or put people in jail or cut water or deprive people from going to Aqsa mosque for praying or do all this stuff to gather and when Palestine responded they call them terrorists
SO WE BACK IN THIS CIRCLE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
@bussyman
i like your talk man
but you know that resistance against occupation is legal under all human and international law.
i guess this resistance doesn't use flowers it uses guns
and take the French resistance against the Nazis or the American resistance against British occupation .
we didn't call those terrorists.
occupation is illegal and isreal is one who occupied the Palestine lands they should get out from occupied lands first .
it's international law and it's human rights if isreal has a problem after that with any group it can go to UN security council like it did when it lost her battle against hezb allah
but i guess isreal doesn't obey international law till it lost the battle.
i feel sorry that isreali people don't want to see the truth .
i feel sorry they rejected the hand that offer peace and want to complete this blood shed to the end
..........................................................
you can talk now as you like isrealis say whatever you say or do whatever you like but don't forget
maybe the price of peace is high but the price of war you cann't afford
Take out all politician, give all the people food and work, give the children education and a Playstation (or wii/xbox) and there will be peace....
simple as that.
Everyone that is not a politician is sick and tired of the fightings the suicide bombings the continous destruction of whatever good that is built up by hardworking simple orinairy people. There is no parent that wants his child to be a suicide killer. But the everyones i'm talking about aren't pulling the political strings. As it isn't in the whole world.....
Every religion is about the good of people, be good to eachother, live in peace and be happy. Every religion is against killing. Parents wants the best for their children. They don't care about Jew, Moslim, Christian. They just want to raise their children healthy and in peace!
The people of Libanon were building up their country, it started to be a good place to live. People were stopping to think about war, occupation of land, religious strugles.
That was not in the interest of Hamas and Fatah. Who were fighting about the power. That fight causes a civilian war that threw the country 10 years back in time.
Simply because it went to well in that country. A happy teenager won't give his live for 'the' cause. So make the children unhappy again and they will do that. A civilian that has a good life won't donate to a militatnt party like Hamas. So rob him of his future and he will defend 'the cause'. He will pay for his 'protection' against the evil (Israel).
It's all about politics, who has the power! Not about religion... that's just the excuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
well, i was talking about the palestinians not egyptQuote:
we all hunting down terrorist groups but me and you have a different definition for terrorism while you consider anyone raises a gun against your occupation troops is terrorist ,i consider them a legal resistance.
and to don't get me wrong osama ben laden is terrorist no doubt but not all islamic groups out there are terrorist
and I'm from Egypt and by country is ruled by an elected government not a group of terror
anyway, its pretty simple to define a terrorist:
if u go inside other country will one goal- to kill as many as civilians as possible before u'r stopped, your a terrorist.
if u planned such an attack, u'r a toerrorist.
if u helped launching it in any form, that means you assist to commit a terror attack - u need to be punished as well.
if u go and shoot a soldier and you find yourself dead, don't be surprised.
same about sending your kid to do it.
if u'r launching rockets each day into israel, u'r a terrorist also.
i don't think its realy hard to define who is a terrorist. but as i understood u disagree.
well, after all i said above is done, israel can cut the electriciy it gives the pelestinians, and cut the water it gives to them as well.Quote:
from your words it seems you don't want to give peace chance only because you think it won't do you any good
man , every time Palestine and isreal gad a truth ; isreal went a bomb a town or cut electricity or put people in jail or cut water or deprive people from going to Aqsa mosque for praying or do all this stuff to gather and when Palestine responded they call them terrorists
SO WE BACK IN THIS CIRCLE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
and about bombing a town, which is a lie cos we don't bomb towns, we hunt leaders of terror groups and if they travle by car we bomb them.
if u have a better way for doing it u may do so, but u'r actually supports them
Someone's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighterQuote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
It's just the perspective your willing to see.
Americans kill citizens in Iraq... are they terrorists?
Same as the UN troops in Afghanistan?
It's not that easy as you say to define terrorist.
In WWII there was an underground resitance against Hitler's Germans. As they were the ruling party (chosen or not) resistance with use of weapons was by your definitions a terrorist deed.
That's something i don't dare to say against my granddad ;)
if u'r goal is to kill as many as citizens as possible then u'r a terroristQuote:
Originally Posted by jetjeSomeone's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighterQuote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
It's just the perspective your willing to see.
Americans kill citizens in Iraq... are they terrorists?
Same as the UN troops in Afghanistan?
It's not that easy as you say to define terrorist.
In WWII there was an underground resitance against Hitler's Germans. As they were the ruling party (chosen or not) resistance with use of weapons was by your definitions a terrorist deed.
That's something i don't dare to say against my granddad ;)
Don't be ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by torrenttif u'r goal is to kill as many as citizens as possible then u'r a terroristQuote:
Originally Posted by jetje
if you had said to spread as many fear as possible i almost could have agreed. ;)
That's imho the greater goal terrorist have. Spread so much fear that fear alone destabilize a whole nation.:ph34r:
See the USA, altough freedom is all that's important (O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!) actions against terrorism, like the patriot act made them a lot less free.
man... pls stop talking trash.
u know exactly what are the arabs soldier are and specially palestine, here is an pic for u all:
http://rotter.name/User_files/nor/468980105dbc77e5.jpg
now u say ??
and another little link:
http://rotter.net/israel/
just read it.
time for therapy ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mievmo
you also could see this
http://rotter.net/israel/43.jpg vs http://www.jr.co.il/pictures/israel/army/jriar100.jpg
u can also show a pic of a 5 years old palestinian crying, and in another pic show airplanes and tank and ships, if u want to create a PropagandaQuote:
Originally Posted by jetje
ooh, who cares about propaganda and who cares about politics?
we are talking about people lives
torrentt, they aren't crossing your borders because you occupied their lands so actully there is no borders to cross but if you are admitting that gaza strip and western bank are not yours so why don't you give it back then and end this talk and blood shed.
all my life i thought peace is possible that what they taught us in school and told us in speeches .
they told us :
prophet muhammed when he arrived in madina where many jews lived he made a peace treaty with and live with in peace for a long period
i thought peace is possible
forsake of our children
but i guess it's a dream with isreali mentality that want everything and don't want to give anything
refusing to reason or to talk
bombing towns and killing innocents and they saying they are terrorists
i deliver here documents for many massacres and horrible things did by isreali
they didn't even disscuss it they turn their faces in arrogance and take about war.
i'm tired of saying it but i have to
occupied lands for peace
plain and simple
Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
hmmm... i was only refering to the link with all the pictures you gave http://rotter.net/israel/
so whose propoganda???
yes its a link to show to all the people that think that the palestinians are poor children that israel kill them and their mothers with no reasonQuote:
Originally Posted by jetjeQuote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
hmmm... i was only refering to the link with all the pictures you gave http://rotter.net/israel/
so whose propoganda???
but u'r reaction to it was the will to prove otherwise
u want land, only then u'll stop killingQuote:
Originally Posted by SAM
its not peace u want
who wants everything and don't want to give anything?
its u
u want all the terrorists in israel prison to be freed, people who are resposnsible to the death of tens of citizens, for 1 israeli soldier, who we havn't seen over a year, we don't know if he is even alive.
but last month we freed about 250 prisoners who were in israel prison cos they failed to murder, or helped to execute a terror act, or are members in terror groups etc..
and we didn't ask anything in return
we give u water and electricity and jobs, what do u give in return? - while we let your people inside israel to work here, u penetrate in people with bombs or guns, some even try to kill the soldiers who are supervising at the barrier
u say u will stop killing if we give you land?
are u listening to yourself? u don't realy want peace. if u did, u would stop killing and start negotiating. palestinians can start with hamas acknowledging israel's right to be existed.
I don't actually think he's killed anyone, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
We don't even know if he's been in palestine, seems like he's egyptian for all intents and purposes.
"failed" as in "whoops, the bomb I just set didn't go off" or failed meaning that they didn't actually do anything in the first place? :unsure:Quote:
but last month we freed about 250 prisoners who were in israel prison cos they failed to murder, or helped to execute a terror act, or are members in terror groups etc..
and we didn't ask anything in return
Not sure that's him, or his people, really, unless you count all arabs or something.Quote:
we give u water and electricity and jobs, what do u give in return? - while we let your people inside israel to work here, u penetrate in people with bombs or guns, some even try to kill the soldiers who are supervising at the barrier
=-=
SAM, you understood busy's point, right?
The french resistance wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the armies coming from the outside, pushing the germans out.
I'd wager the germans hadn't let go of France at all, if it had only been the resistance they were up against. And furthermore, the french resistance didn't go into Germany, blowing civilians up there.
Imagine being an israeli in charge and wanting peace...
On one side you've got right-wing hardliners, wanting to expand, on the other you've got palestinians, and terrorists claiming to fight for all palestinians. And on the outside you've got arab states of which some won't even recognise that your nation has the right to exist, where there are demonstrations against you, and religious leaders as well as media telling people they should hate you. And in the middle you've got a large group of people who'd really like to survive until tomorrow.
Imagine your choices:
Giving up land will have the right-wing nutters yelling that you are a pussy, and that you are giving in to the terrorists, and they'll probably have the support of a lot of scared or angry people who have lost someone or are afraid of losing someone.
Trying for some sort of compromise will make no one happy, because the palestinians will think you owe them more, while some on the other side will think you are giving in to the terrorists.
Bombing israelis won't just scare them, see? It'll also make a lot of people angry, and give other, some rather nasty, people reasons to argue in favour of no giving away anything.
I really don't think it's done anyone any good, 'cept for a bunch of religious psychos on both sides, who have gotten more power, power to send more people to their deaths.
If the threat of terror-attacks disappeared, I reckon it'd be much harder for people on the israeli right-wing to make themselves heard, or break the rules.
do you really blame them for wanting land?Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
what i would like to see is Palestine get back a fair portion of land. Im not talking about any un lines that where drawn up 50 years ago since today they will be useless. can you imagine what people have built in that time that would be immovable like roads, shopping centres and towns.
get the un/us/eu to provide aid to Palestinians i mean food, water, education , housing and security to their boarders(peacekeepers). As jetje said a man with plenty of food a proper education a decent job and a safe place for his family is definetly unlikely to want war with his neighbours over something trivial like religion.
unfortunately neither side is willing to give any ground as it would diminish their power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanuel goldstein
The USA is the only country that can make Israel return to the original boundaries. Since 1949 the USA has 'bankrolled' Israel to the tune of 135 Billion Dollars. That is the equivalent of $24,000 dollars per Israeli. Why are they doing this?
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm#Taxpayer
[quote]
i'm talking with him as a representer of the palestinians in this thread. he is from agypt i guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snee
i got the list of all those prisoners and the reason why they where put to prison.Quote:
failed" as in "whoops, the bomb I just set didn't go off" or failed meaning that they didn't actually do anything in the first place? :unsure:
i'll name some:
matar musa ahmed mahmud: murder attempt, shooting towards people, possetion of firearm.
handi alias abed altif mansur: intentionally tried to kill a person, planting an explosive
hanani nagdi abed elrahim yusuf: shooting towards people, producing bombs and weapons-ammo, possession of weapons illegaly
if the majority want peace, why did they chose hamas?Quote:
Not sure that's him, or his people, really, unless you count all arabs or something.
why?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
2 simple facts...
1)US is ran by some powerful US jews
2)most of the US politicians are believer Christians, they believe jesus wont resurrect unless Jerusalem is prepared for him(jews approval, bible)
sorry guys i won't comment on all of you seperatly .
first, I'm Egyptian this means I'm from Egypt and I'm Arabian Muslim .and proud of it.
that's to clear things out.
now allow me to deliver some historical facts .i won't take you along way back I'll only take you to 1991.
it's very important to go back in time in order to put things right and know why we are in this situation to day and who to blame?!
1991 , two great people ; both from the radical wing in both Palestine and isreal ; both are fighters;and both from the first generation
i'm here referring to yasser arfat and yitzhak rabin both men ot tired of war saw that peace is possible so after lot of secret meetings they met in Oslo and made Oslo accords.
oslo accords was a new era it gives Palestinians their lands in ten years in which all the major issues will solve like Jerusalem and the return right for the refugees.
what happened next is arfat went to Gaza and the west bank ; palestinians looked at him as their savior he started the Palestinian administration and the wheel started to run .
one day in 1995 we all woke up to find rabin assassinated why because he made peace with the palestinians.
now everything changed , a new prime minster with new agenda.
they put a pressure after a pressure over arfat they want him to agree to leave some lands of the western bank to them , he told them if he did that his own people will consider him a traitor but did isrealis had any understanding .
no ,of course not so he becomes a terrorist a man of war.
arfat tried to work things out made compromises but isreal gave him something and the next day it took it back.
it became clear to palestinians that isreal is playing games 1998 came and no Palestinian state declared , the Americans told arfat postpone it to 2000.
in 2000, sharon went to the Aqsa mosque with 2000 military soldiers to make a visit.
he knew it will made Arabians furious ,he know it would give radicals a reason to fight but who cares.
and then everything collapses,.
in the middle of all of this isreal did what most of the world consider a war crime not against humanity but against common sense.
they assassinated ahmed yassin the god father of hamas, the man was almost 80 years old paralyzed on wheel chair lived in isreali prisons for 25 years.
but isreal consider him a threat it sent a fighter and sent a missile to his house killed 10 people along with ahmed yassin so now what can yasser arfat do.
i forgot to tell you isreal put arfat under siege in his office saying he is a threat too.
so isreal put fatah leader the man it made peace with under siege and assassinated the hamas god father.
and arfat died in his prison and abu mazen came.
all isreali officials refused to meet abu mazen .
so they don't want abu mazen but under the pressure of usa Europe and Egypt they made a truth for 3 months with the palestinians.
but before this truth ends isreal attacked Gaza why no one knew for sure.
and the truth died so they start over and make other truth and the same happened .
hamas sent a missile ...isreal attacked a village and so on
and the election time came and the palestinians looked around
what they gonna choose
fatah ,its leader died in his office surrounded by isreali tanks by the people who offered them peace .
and what fatah did ..nothing after 15 years of the negotiations with isreal completely nothing.
no state no peace no thing.
hamas, a stubborn resistance which isreal couldn't stop.
so palestinians said if isreal didn't make peace so what it really wants is to kill us all and it had its chance already and fatah didn't strong enough to negotiate with isreal maybe hamas will do better.
so they choose hamas
now,who to blame
the Palestinians who stayed dreaming for peace for 15 years and never came.
I'll leave the answer to you.
now, let's clear something out the majority of Muslims want to live in peace and they know that isreal can't be gone so accept the reality but they are mad from what isreal does every day they are mad cause isreal doesn't give the land back.
and let me clear something else Arabian countries don't govern by religious leaders they are govern by elected presidents and some kings .
the only two religious states in middle east is isreal and iran
now isrealis see all the Arabians are terrorists or most of them
they refuse to obey international law they refuse to listen to any voice who talk about peace .
and they don't want to talk to Arabs at all
the problem is in the isreali minds... they are the ones who should sit down and determine what they want.
because we Arabians know what we want
we want our lands back all our lands the lands that isreal occupied in 1967.
and this legal under anything you name it
and the Palestinian resistance will continue in every way and form till this happen.
and this resistance two is legal.
if isreal want peace there will be peace.
Egypt made peace with radical isreali prime minister Menachem Begin .
so it isn't just the liberals who made peace also the radicals
sorry it's a long comment :)
Oh, ffs.
"the problem is in the isreali minds" and "we Arabians know what we want" etc.
Back to making blanket statements.
And tbh, Arafat wasn't that cool. He didn't become "a terrorist a man of war" in 1995, he'd been planning attacks against Israel for a long time before Fatah went legit.
There's no doubt that Sharon's douchebags didn't have peace in mind, though.
Nevertheless, you need to realise that things aren't that simple. All of Israel isn't bad, most are just regular people, and all arabs aren't nice enlightened blokes wanting peace.
well,yes not all isreali are bad and not all the arabs are peace seekers
and isreal made peace with arfat and then betrayed him
yes he planned attacks on isreal but that's in the 70s and this man had the Nobel prize for peace so he isn't that bad too.
and there is no blanket statement snee
I'm telling historical facts .
isreal can give the occupied land back if it wants and for that we all will live in peace.
peace can be done if isreal has the will to make it happen.
camp david, 2000Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
Ehud Barak offered Arafat an eventual 91% (after many years - see section on territory) of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip, with Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state; in addition, all refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. But before any gradual Israeli withdrawal, all Palestinian terrorist infrastructure must be dismantled. Arafat, however, refused. The Palestinians wanted the immediate withdrawal of the Israelis from the occupied territories, and only subsequently the Palestinian authority would crush all Palestinian terror organizations.
u got to love arafat
Correct. Do not let the rich & powerful, no matter what flavor fool you. Feed, clothe & teach the poor. That's the war that needs winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4play