Why is everyone against traders?

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Originally Posted by kaffeine

People take the "level" of trackers way too literally, and it really gets ridiculous, to the point of threads in the invite sections where the OP says something like "I have level 4, I need any level 5" wtf is this?!

These "levels" have given trackers some kind of (fake) value, and people think they're in the stock market in here, signing up on "lower levels", buffering them so they gain some value, then trade for the next level and repeat the process... it's sad really.

People forget that these are communities. You can find almost every file everywhere, so why are people trading to get these "high level" trackers? just so they can put a new nice little user bar in their sig, and feel above others (again, just sad).

They don't care for the community (and that's obvious, since they will be using the account of another person, which is extremely bizarre if you're interested in participating in a community), and they continue the stock market game breaking trackers' rules.

Invites are meant to be given for free, to someone you trust and consider will be an asset to the community where you're already a member. Traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

(oh, and for those who say that every non-trader is against trading because they don't have anything to trade, or they traded in the past and now don't have the need to trade, or trade with another account... well, I will just say that that is a very pathetic way of justifying what you do)

Remember: these are communities. make friends, participate in the forums/irc, follow trackers' rules and you will never have to trade for anything.

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good post, kaffeine.


that's the reason why account trader never post in the tracker forum.

if you want to judge a good user on a tracker, look at how many forum posts he made there and not how high his buffer is.

same thing goes for cheater btw.


those users get invites to elite trackers, but not the trader.

i have some ivites for the new guys but im not sure where to post them?

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Originally Posted by barry6521

i have some ivites for the new guys but im not sure where to post them?

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in BitTorrent invite section look up:happy:

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Originally Posted by Polarbear

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Originally Posted by kaffeine

People take the "level" of trackers way too literally, and it really gets ridiculous, to the point of threads in the invite sections where the OP says something like "I have level 4, I need any level 5" wtf is this?!

These "levels" have given trackers some kind of (fake) value, and people think they're in the stock market in here, signing up on "lower levels", buffering them so they gain some value, then trade for the next level and repeat the process... it's sad really.

People forget that these are communities. You can find almost every file everywhere, so why are people trading to get these "high level" trackers? just so they can put a new nice little user bar in their sig, and feel above others (again, just sad).

They don't care for the community (and that's obvious, since they will be using the account of another person, which is extremely bizarre if you're interested in participating in a community), and they continue the stock market game breaking trackers' rules.

Invites are meant to be given for free, to someone you trust and consider will be an asset to the community where you're already a member. Traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

(oh, and for those who say that every non-trader is against trading because they don't have anything to trade, or they traded in the past and now don't have the need to trade, or trade with another account... well, I will just say that that is a very pathetic way of justifying what you do)

Remember: these are communities. make friends, participate in the forums/irc, follow trackers' rules and you will never have to trade for anything.

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good post, kaffeine.


that's the reason why account trader never post in the tracker forum.

if you want to judge a good user on a tracker, look at how many forum posts he made there and not how high his buffer is.

same thing goes for cheater btw.


those users get invites to elite trackers, but not the trader.

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I agree, kaffeine hit the nail on the head.

Great post

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Originally Posted by kaffeine

traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

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why do you and everybody else think that all the traders are like that? i have traded but i dont collect the stuff that i dont need. the people you are reffering to does that. doesnt mean if you're trader then you just want to climb the latter now does it?
The main difference is the way you get your trackers

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Originally Posted by SiNa

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Originally Posted by kaffeine

traders just don't care about that, they think about invites and accounts as pokemon cards, to collect and feel special.. they compromise the security of trackers.

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why do you and everybody else think that all the traders are like that? i have traded but i dont collect the stuff that i dont need. the people you are reffering to does that. doesnt mean if you're trader then you just want to climb the latter now does it?
The main difference is the way you get your trackers

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As with everything, there are some exceptions, and every generalization is inaccurate, and I apologize for that.

But I ask you this: why trade invites, or even worst, accounts to get access to a tracker? why break the rules and compromise the security of a place you care for so much (or so many say)? why the lack of patience and the need for immediate satisfaction?

The way you get your trackers makes a huge difference.

Many are not trying to climb the latter (i don't like this term, because is directly related to those "levels" again, but anyways..) and many are not collecting trackers.. ok, but then why not try to be part of the communities you're already a member of, why not make some friends there, make people see that you're trustworthy and respectful or trackers' rules, and then every invite, no matter how "high level" it is, will come to you. Not because you're making a nice offer, but because you deserve it and a good friend of yours trusts in you.

Think of it as a group of friends, where you want to join. You first become friends with one of those who is in that other group you want to join, and then he introduces you to his group of friends, because he likes you and he trust you. That's how it is supposed to work imo.

There are traders who collect trackers like pokemon cards, I have seen traders claiming they have 7 FTN accounts, but these are in the minority. The majority of traders are trading to get hard-to-get trackers for there own use.

There is absolutely no reason to believe these people are any less active on these trackers than someone who got the invite from a friend.

As for the security issue, if trading didn't happen I am sure the RIAA are capable of coming here and making friends. Their staff are presumably experts on filesharing so could come here and impress with there input.
They would probably target those with high level tracker userbars and post in their threads. With the money they have they could afford some pretty fast seedboxes which after a while they share with there friends.
Doesn't that sound the sort of person you would share one of your invites with, someone who has let you use their seedbox and asked for nothing in return?
To believe the RIAA or any other agencies are only capable of getting invites to these sites because of a bunch of kids trading invites isn't realistic.

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Originally Posted by kaffeine

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Originally Posted by SiNa

why do you and everybody else think that all the traders are like that? i have traded but i dont collect the stuff that i dont need. the people you are reffering to does that. doesnt mean if you're trader then you just want to climb the latter now does it?
The main difference is the way you get your trackers

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As with everything, there are some exceptions, and every generalization is inaccurate, and I apologize for that.

But I ask you this: why trade invites, or even worst, accounts to get access to a tracker? why break the rules and compromise the security of a place you care for so much (or so many say)? why the need for immediate satisfaction?

The way you get your trackers makes a huge difference.

Many are not trying to climb the latter (i don't like this term, because is directly related to those "levels" again, but anyways..) and many are not collecting trackers.. ok, but then why not try to be part of the communities you're already a member of, why not make some friends there, make people see that you're trustworthy and respectful or trackers' rules, and then every invite, no matter how "high level" it is, will come to you. Not because you're making a nice offer, but because you deserve it and a good friend of yours trusts in you.

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actually i think many are like me, they keep the things they need

well in order to gain trust a huge amount of time is required. i just needed the trackers fast, couldnt wait so i traded. i dont see this in a bad way as long as you re like me:happy:
also i dont think i'm causing damage to the tracker just because they dont allow trading. just a normal user like others

now you ask why not make friends inside the tracker?
it doesnt matter where you get your friends! you can make friends here or anywhere else.

look at first i didnt want to get into the trouble of making a good friend AND then gain his trust, becuase as i said, it takes (took:)) time. and when you start like that by trading from the beginning then you may keep on doing it because you're used to it, even though you got a friend that trusts you. But that doesnt mean that i dont accept free invites and that i trade every time

i don't have anything against trading if it's the only way to gain access to some rare trackers

but i really don't like the idea of trading only for the sake of collecting many accounts of the same trackers, i don't understand this at all, i mean, get a life! ;)

compulsive trading is wrong IMO

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Originally Posted by Polarbear

if you want to judge a good user on a tracker, look at how many forum posts he made there and not how high his buffer is.

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Is this a statement?
I disagree, not everyone have time to participate in forums. The majoraty forum threads from trackers are pure spam and not everybody is interested in participate in threads like "rate this ass", "do you hit it?", "ban the user above u" and so on... A massive participation does not means a quality participation.

If you want judge a good user you should combine several factors: Tracker behavior (h&r, time sharing, fill requests...), interesting threads participation, IRC participation, Donations...

the guys who make their way to elite trackers through forums and IRC are most of them ass kissers...

The best BT user is some guy with no life, who seeds just to 1:1 and leaves, fills requests all day, helps you like a slave, will buff your account for you, will suck cock and give money.

Just wanted to say 10 pages. Whoo.

Also a lot of traders don't just "collect accounts." Say I have a SCT invite and I want a TT invite.

Now I can:
1. Give my SCT invite away and make someone very happy
2. Then post asking for a TT invite when dozens of other users who have been here longer, contributed and posted more than me, want it and have asked for it
3. And hope.

Or I can:
1. Make a thread trading SCT for TT
2. Get an offer within a few minutes. Trade. And now I would have TT.

Which way is easier and safer? (safer meaning I'm actually going to get an invite, and not just hoping someone will invite me)

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

When you sign up for a tracker, you tick the checkbox saying “I agree with rules and agreement” and one of the rule is not to trade invite/account (for most of the tracker)

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Trading should be held as moral and honest when without scammers because of the implication of trading invites value-for-value.
To be against traders is to be against the free market. :angry:

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1o I don't see ANY morality in breaking rules of something you are feeding upon.

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Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

2o And honesty? Tracker give you invite to invite people, not to trade 'em.

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You once again misunderstand me. Why else would if input the phrase "when without scammers" if not to highlight the unbreakably honest transaction between two traders, who consent to trade equally valued invitations. Ratio proofs and Speedtests in giveaways can be forged, after all.
Again, I am not regarding whether the establishment allows such trade agreements.

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

When you say "free market" You realize that you are comparing internet to real life? And...you realize it's not really free because tracker staff are chasing after you?

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squirr3l, as far as I am concerned, the internet is apart of reality. It follows the same economic logic. Mind you, I will explain what I mean:
Freedom is prevented by the establishment, or the tracker staff in this case, but if this trade agreement is done freely without sounding off any alarms, then it is perfectly reasonable to compare it to a free market, in which you produce something and then trade it for another product of equal value.

My analogy is correct. This really isn't too hard to understand. Maybe you should reintroduce yourself to the definition of a free market (laissez-faire capitalism)?

You pays your money and you makes your choice, you have read in this thread what half will think of you, and that the other half couldn't give a shit.

When and if you are looking for a freebie into the more elite sites at some time in the future, then remember your choices that you made earlier on your path will come back to play a major part in who gives you that invite, you either walk in the front door and feel proud that you go there on merit, or you sneak in the back door and hope they never catch you and disable your account. The smaller the base, the easier to trace.

It cannot be stressed enough, respect.

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)

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What are you talking about? Your definition of morality makes no sense. According to what you've said selling arms to terrorists would be moral as I would be trading value for value without regard to whether it was allowed or not. The morality of a transaction cant be determined in a vaccuum only by reference to its form, it must be done by looking at its substance and its context. I'm not saying trading invites is immoral, just that your argument doesn't add up.

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Originally Posted by Zeus

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)

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What are you talking about? Your definition of morality makes no sense. According to what you've said selling arms to terrorists would be moral as I would be trading value for value without regard to whether it was allowed or not. The morality of a transaction cant be determined in a vaccuum only by reference to its form, it must be done by looking at its substance and its context. I'm not saying trading invites is immoral, just that your argument doesn't add up.

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My argument isn't adding up because you are looking at it too closely. I meant to imply that the other factors involved in the transaction are moral. Giving guns to terrorists isn't exactly the right way to live as a society, is it?
Let's keep on topic. Why is trading invites amoral?

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Originally Posted by SgtMajor

You pays your money and you makes your choice, you have read in this thread what half will think of you, and that the other half couldn't give a shit.

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I suppose you're right.

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Originally Posted by SgtMajor

When and if you are looking for a freebie into the more elite sites at some time in the future, then remember your choices that you made earlier on your path will come back to play a major part in who gives you that invite, you either walk in the front door and feel proud that you go there on merit, or you sneak in the back door and hope they never catch you and disable your account. The smaller the base, the easier to trace.

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I don't care to attain invites from people who hold grudges

I wont redress the point for the sake of staying on topic

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Why is trading invites amoral?

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I dont think it is. Given that everyone here doesnt think twice about flaunting the law to download the latest movie, its a bit rich when someone turns around and claims someone is immoral for breaking a trackers rules. It's not something I do myself but I can understand why people trade to get where they need to be. I still havent figured out why people trade for fun though, that just seems pretty sad to me.

At the end of the day though, if you choose to trade you cant really complain when someone chooses not to give you free invites for fear that you will just trade on the account in a months time. Once you've made your bed you have to sleep in it.

I also have to say that in my experience most of the "traders" here seem to be kids who never leave the invites section and make no other contribution in their posts other than "Level 8 for Level6!!! Youre crazy. You must offer more!!!!!!!!!" Im not saying they are all like that but its definitely a pattern, therefore its not really surprising when others dont warm to them.

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Originally Posted by Zeus

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Why is trading invites amoral?

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I dont think it is. Given that everyone here doesnt think twice about flaunting the law to download the latest movie, its a bit rich when someone turns around and claims someone is immoral for breaking a trackers rules.

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Trade is such a loose term. Even during giveaways (among anonymous parties) there is a social element of trade.
Every one respects those who give away invites. Every one also ascribes them a multitude of "BT Rep." Is that not trading your invites for social appraisal and other potential compensations? Is that not trading value-for-value?

Following this logic, giveaways should be decried as much as trading invite-for-invite, potentially even more for hiding its true color underneath the pretense of "altruism."

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Originally Posted by Ænima

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Originally Posted by Zeus

I dont think it is. Given that everyone here doesnt think twice about flaunting the law to download the latest movie, its a bit rich when someone turns around and claims someone is immoral for breaking a trackers rules.

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Trade is such a loose term. Even during giveaways (among anonymous parties) there is a social element of trade.
Every one respects those who give away invites. Every one also ascribes them a multitude of "BT Rep." Is that not trading your invites for social appraisal and other potential compensations? Is that not trading value-for-value?

Following this logic, giveaways should be decried as much as trading invite-for-invite, potentially even more for hiding its true color underneath the pretense of "altruism."

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why u just think of giveaways like that why u cant think the person who do those giveaway only he spent alot of time to get some trackers and he wanna make it easly for others why its call help each other thats the point of giveaways

Why do you ask me to get back on topic and then start talking about value-for-value again. A trade by its very nature involves the exhange of value for value. i dont really get what your point is? I've already said I dont think its immoral and Ive explained why the exchange of value-for-value has little to do with morality. I dont however think that the increasing commoditisation of torrent trackers is a good thing for the bt scene in general.

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Originally Posted by Zeus

Why do you ask me to get back on topic and then start talking about value-for-value again. A trade by its very nature involves the exhange of value for value. i dont really get what your point is? I've already said I dont think its immoral and Ive explained why the exchange of value-for-value has little to do with morality.

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Is has much to do with morality. Trading does not imply value-for-value. When you produce something in a socialist or even communist state and want to sell it, you pay for it. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Ring a bell? I was highlighting the fact that it is moral because it is the way economy should be ran.

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Originally Posted by Zeus

I dont however think that the increasing commoditisation of torrent trackers is a good thing for the bt scene in general.

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Why, because it makes the bt scene more exclusive?

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Is has much to do with morality. Trading does not imply value-for-value. When you produce something in a socialist or even communist state and want to sell it, you pay for it. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Ring a bell? I was highlighting the fact that it is moral because it is the way economy should be ran.

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For your info this ain't socialist or communist state this is internet....and the bounds here aren't the state laws rather the tracker rules.

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Morality: the way we should live as a society. To be moral is to trade value-for-value, regardless of whether the establishment allows it. This applies to all products produced by one's mind (whether it is a book, a music album, or a tracker invite.)

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go post your morality lesson in a tracker forum which does not allow trading then give me a link to the thread...i will stay back, watch, and enjoy :D

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Originally Posted by Ænima

Trade is such a loose term. Even during giveaways (among anonymous parties) there is a social element of trade.
Every one respects those who give away invites. Every one also ascribes them a multitude of "BT Rep." Is that not trading your invites for social appraisal and other potential compensations? Is that not trading value-for-value?

Following this logic, giveaways should be decried as much as trading invite-for-invite, potentially even more for hiding its true color underneath the pretense of "altruism."

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what are u talking about? seriously, trying to lurk people with big term?

ever read this thread? http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...-bt-rep-144759

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DO NOT demand rep points when giving free invites.

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i don't know how that's even close to trading.

nuff' said.