Someone pls explain why

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Originally Posted by manker

Research, Les.
Research :smilie4:

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Your scholarly ways are indeed legend.

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Originally Posted by manker

chocolate teddy bear's arm

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Too much information :sick:

someone please explain why this thread is here :D lol

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by SpatulaGeekGirl

Another reason that the Japs come across as perverted is because they don't have the same shame about sexuality. The idea that pornography is dirty and wrong is more of a western thing, mostly brought about by religion. In Japan, sex is the same as eating and sleeping. To them, it's a bodily function.

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A bodily function that is blurred out by a fecking mosaic. Even if it's a cartoon. Censored cartoon vaginas in a sea of raped and humiliated schoolgirls, it's insane.

Defacating is a bodily function and it isn't censored in Japan. Go to empornium to be regaled with a spycam in a Japanese public toilet and watch a local lady poo - BUT if the camera strays past the chocolate teddy bear's arm hanging from her distended anus to her inert fanny, it's mosaic city.

Draw your own conclusions re. shame about sexuality and perversion.


Fucking irrational censor happy Japanians. I agree with the thread starter.

Japan sucks.
Except for Snee - who is alright, for a Japanian.

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I was thinking roughly the same thing but didn't know how to explain it.

There's also the way that Japanese men can be such chauvanist gits.....Japanese women are increasingly deciding to stay single in the cities because they now have prospects and don't need to take any shit. Apparently men still largely expect to be waited on and and foot even if their wife works. Then there's their inability to express love and affection (apparently).

A couple of my friends lived in Japan for a while and got thoroughly fed up of men trying to photograph up their skirts and feel them up in public.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

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Originally Posted by manker

A bodily function that is blurred out by a fecking mosaic. Even if it's a cartoon. Censored cartoon vaginas in a sea of raped and humiliated schoolgirls, it's insane.

Defacating is a bodily function and it isn't censored in Japan. Go to empornium to be regaled with a spycam in a Japanese public toilet and watch a local lady poo - BUT if the camera strays past the chocolate teddy bear's arm hanging from her distended anus to her inert fanny, it's mosaic city.

Draw your own conclusions re. shame about sexuality and perversion.


Fucking irrational censor happy Japanians. I agree with the thread starter.

Japan sucks.
Except for Snee - who is alright, for a Japanian.

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I was thinking roughly the same thing but didn't know how to explain it.

There's also the way that Japanese men can be such chauvanist gits.....Japanese women are increasingly deciding to stay single in the cities because they now have prospects and don't need to take any shit. Apparently men still largely expect to be waited on and and foot even if their wife works. Then there's their inability to express love and affection (apparently).

A couple of my friends lived in Japan for a while and got thoroughly fed up of men trying to photograph up their skirts and feel them up in public.

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Sounds awesome :P

The other thing that strikes me as weird is that in Japanese porn, the woman is never depicted as enjoying it. She is either forced or very submissive - even passive.
Why would that be unless the target market (Japanese blokes) wanted to see it.

From my eyrie in the western world, the Japanese attitude to sex seems particularly repressed and more than a little skewed toward the perverse.




I hardly watch it :mellow:

No, you're right. I got my OH some Japanese porn from Jlist a while ago and apart from the pixellated fannies which he really didn't appreciate, all the girls were dressed up like children, and were pulling these odd facial expressions like they were about to start crying.

At least in Western porn the women have the decency to pretend they're enjoying it :snooty:.

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

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Originally Posted by Snee

Historically, they kinda' do have a pretty good excuse to be grumpy about it, after a fashion. Technically, afaik, they were turned into an expansionist empire by primarily US interests.

In the mid-1800s japan was forced to open trade with foreign nations, by a mostly american fleet of ironclads, kickstarting their turning from a tradionalist, extremely insular society, with few interests in matters outside of Japan (and even much of that came from europeans forcing their way in, after a fashion).

At the time of WWII they'd been building up steam, for nigh on a century, towards a confrontation with all the nations who'd been using them as a doormat at one point or another, with a fair bit of people reckoning that was the way to end that sort of thing, I imagine.

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Bollocks! Cloud cuckoo land nice today is it ?

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Oh, STFU. Seriously. They wouldn't have it in them, if it hadn't been for others pushing them around.

Look at history, ffs. In the 1200s they raided China, but that was after a failed attempt at conquering japan by some Khan.

In the 1500s they fucked around with Korea for a bit, though. All on their own. They also did a bit of trading with the west, which lasted into the 1600s, even sent off emissaries to Europe, but afaik they weren't the ones to initiate contact, and they were hardly happy about having europeans there, especially not missionaries.

In the 1600s, though, they forbade construction of any ships that could cross the ocean, on pain of death, at that, and that lasted about two centuries and was intended to be a measure to cut off all contact with the west. Only contact they had with the west at all was with the Dutch, and that wasn't really something they asked for.

If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.

It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.

I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences. Building an empire/a powerbase and waiting to expand further. Attacking the U.S. which yet wasn't commited to the war was the culmination of it, and it happened because the americans were seen as the big obstacle, or their rivals.

EDit: japan was still a feudal society, the technology they were handed was more advanced than their societal structure.

A medieval mindset never goes well with guns and bombs. Especially not when acquired after having them waved in your face for a bit first.

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Originally Posted by Submission

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

Most rape crimes are ignored by police.

Whatever technology you got from America is irrelevant when your culture is perverted and broken.

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I know their age of consent is 13. I also know they have far fewer STIs and teenaged pregnancy than the US or UK.

Also, rape isn't ignored by police. Rape is considered a horrendous act in Japan, just as it is in the west. I did a little research, and the only inappropriate thing I can find about their stance on rape is the slightly short prison sentence (ranging from 2 to 15 years).

Overall, Japan is a decently moral country. The biggest problem you seem to have with them stems from your misinformed view that pornography leads to rape, and that more bountiful and explicit pornography leads to even more rape. It seems obvious to me from Japan's crime rate, of both violent and sexual crimes, that tv, movies and comic books have no negative effects on their culture, and might even have a positive, cathartic effect.

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

I was thinking roughly the same thing but didn't know how to explain it.

There's also the way that Japanese men can be such chauvanist gits.....Japanese women are increasingly deciding to stay single in the cities because they now have prospects and don't need to take any shit. Apparently men still largely expect to be waited on and and foot even if their wife works. Then there's their inability to express love and affection (apparently).

A couple of my friends lived in Japan for a while and got thoroughly fed up of men trying to photograph up their skirts and feel them up in public.

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Sounds awesome :P

The other thing that strikes me as weird is that in Japanese porn, the woman is never depicted as enjoying it. She is either forced or very submissive - even passive.
Why would that be unless the target market (Japanese blokes) wanted to see it.

From my eyrie in the western world, the Japanese attitude to sex seems particularly repressed and more than a little skewed toward the perverse.




I hardly watch it :mellow:

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They're not NEVER depicted as enjoying it, I have seen the odd manga or two on 4chan where the girls look into it, but I think it's mostly a matter of perception. I don't think it's necessarily meant to depict that they're not enjoying it at all, it's just supposed to be a different expression of pleasure. It's strange that way, but from what I can gather it's meant to be a "caught up in the moment" and "over-whelmed" thing.

You do get some really strange stuff though. Guro is very surreal, and S'n'M hentai isn't rare by any standards.

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Originally Posted by SpatulaGeekGirl

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Originally Posted by Submission

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

Most rape crimes are ignored by police.

Whatever technology you got from America is irrelevant when your culture is perverted and broken.

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I know their age of consent is 13.

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It isn't usually that low in reality, though:

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Originally Posted by Moi

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Originally Posted by Submission

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

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I did not know that. Mostly 'cos it's not true, technically.

In the real world, that varies between jurisdictions. In Tokyo the effective age of consent is 17 (I just googled for an example).

Canadian age of consent: 12/14/18 lololol.

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Hmmmm, I've seen some older lady porn from Japan and they look totally like they're enjoying it according to my Western understanding of what that is supposed to look like. It's only the girls who look about 12 years old who pull the 'caught up in the moment' face, usually dressed as a Japanese schoolgirl.

In my opinion it's supposed to be a look of wide-eyed innocence, a fantasy of a girl caught up in a situation with a grown man and rather than being abused, exploring all those wonderful sensations that she's obviously far too naive to understand. Truly pathetic......simply a male fantasy with no real basis in truth. This is common in Western Paedeophilic porn too....the type where a man wants to kid himself that it's not really abuse, that the girl is open to his advances no matter how old and ugly and fat he is because she's nothing more than a responsive sexual organ.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

This is common in Western Paedeophilic porn too....

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I'll have to take your word for it :mellow:

Don't really watch that kind of thing, myself :ermm:

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

This is common in Western Paedeophilic porn too....

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I'll have to take your word for it :mellow:

Don't really watch that kind of thing, myself :ermm:

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Yeah, I'm sure you're very naive :rolleyes:.

Here's an example.

Yeah, see, that's like the first link in ages I'm not clicking on, on this board.

Pedo-pron does my head in, got suckered into some russian site with that kind of thing once, via some fucked up javascript that kept shunting me onward, and it made me want to stab someone.

Ah, sorry I should have said. It's literotica.com. No pictures....it's a story.

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Originally Posted by Snee

Yeah, see, that's like the first link in ages I'm not clicking on, on this board.

Pedo-pron does my head in, got suckered into some russian site with that kind of thing once, via some fucked up javascript that kept shunting me onward, and it made me want to stab someone.

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Agreed, the pricks really are out in force in this thread.

They are now... hello JP... oh sorry you can't see this :lol:

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Originally Posted by Snee

Oh, STFU. Seriously. They wouldn't have it in them, if it hadn't been for others pushing them around.

Look at history, ffs. In the 1200s they raided China, but that was after a failed attempt at conquering japan by some Khan.

In the 1500s they fucked around with Korea for a bit, though. All on their own. They also did a bit of trading with the west, which lasted into the 1600s, even sent off emissaries to Europe, but afaik they weren't the ones to initiate contact, and they were hardly happy about having europeans there, especially not missionaries.

In the 1600s, though, they forbade construction of any ships that could cross the ocean, on pain of death, at that, and that lasted about two centuries and was intended to be a measure to cut off all contact with the west. Only contact they had with the west at all was with the Dutch, and that wasn't really something they asked for.

If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.

It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.

I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences. Building an empire/a powerbase and waiting to expand further. Attacking the U.S. which yet wasn't commited to the war was the culmination of it, and it happened because the americans were seen as the big obstacle, or their rivals.

EDit: japan was still a feudal society, the technology they were handed was more advanced than their societal structure.

A medieval mindset never goes well with guns and bombs. Especially not when acquired after having them waved in your face for a bit first.

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So let me get this right... that military superpower... that grand empire the Dutch forced the Japanese to trade with them did they... yeah right :lol:

Funny you didn't mention that the shogunate chose to trade with China as well... why would you chose to ignore a part of history that shows your personal interpretation to be crap... Hmmmm.....

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

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Originally Posted by Snee

Oh, STFU. Seriously. They wouldn't have it in them, if it hadn't been for others pushing them around.

Look at history, ffs. In the 1200s they raided China, but that was after a failed attempt at conquering japan by some Khan.

In the 1500s they fucked around with Korea for a bit, though. All on their own. They also did a bit of trading with the west, which lasted into the 1600s, even sent off emissaries to Europe, but afaik they weren't the ones to initiate contact, and they were hardly happy about having europeans there, especially not missionaries.

In the 1600s, though, they forbade construction of any ships that could cross the ocean, on pain of death, at that, and that lasted about two centuries and was intended to be a measure to cut off all contact with the west. Only contact they had with the west at all was with the Dutch, and that wasn't really something they asked for.

If it hadn't been for some merkin-tard parking a fleet inside of their border in 1854, they might still have been messing about with swords and horses at the time of WWII.

It was only after 1854 they started assimilating western technology with a vengeance, built a fleet and started wars, and even fought on the side of the allies in WWI.

I figure the only reason they were in any real wars during those years was because of western influences. Building an empire/a powerbase and waiting to expand further. Attacking the U.S. which yet wasn't commited to the war was the culmination of it, and it happened because the americans were seen as the big obstacle, or their rivals.

EDit: japan was still a feudal society, the technology they were handed was more advanced than their societal structure.

A medieval mindset never goes well with guns and bombs. Especially not when acquired after having them waved in your face for a bit first.

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So let me get this right... that military superpower... that grand empire the Dutch forced the Japanese to trade with them did they... yeah right :lol:

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Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to be unwelcome but still be treated with respect.

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Funny you didn't mention that the shogunate chose to trade with China as well... why would you chose to ignore a part of history that shows your personal interpretation to be crap... Hmmmm.....

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That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess. EDit: Or them turning expansionist.
EDit:
They kept both the chinese and the dutch on Dejima, off-shore, and the trading with the dutch consisted mainly, if not entirely, of low-tech stuff like silk for copper, as far as I can recall. It's been a while since I read up on it.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

So let me get this right... that military superpower... that grand empire the Dutch forced the Japanese to trade with them did they... yeah right :lol:

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Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to unwelcome but still be treated with respect.

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Funny you didn't mention that the shogunate chose to trade with China as well... why would you chose to ignore a part of history that shows your personal interpretation to be crap... Hmmmm.....

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That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess.

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None of my business like, Snee.

However feeding trolls, particularly such obvious ones doesn't strike me as your style.

ocd :dabs:

I'll stop, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

None of my business like, Snee.

However feeding trolls, particularly such obvious ones doesn't strike me as your style.

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What is it with you JP... ?

That is the second time you have called me a troll... now I would suggest you put the fuck up and prove I'm a troll or STFU...

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Originally Posted by Snee

ocd :dabs:

I'll stop, sorry.

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Matter for you, mate.

Just strikes me as a waste of your time.

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Originally Posted by Snee

Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to be unwelcome but still be treated with respect.

That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess. EDit: Or them turning expansionist.
EDit:
They kept both the chinese and the dutch on Dejima, off-shore, and the trading with the dutch consisted mainly, if not entirely, of low-tech stuff like silk for copper, as far as I can recall. It's been a while since I read up on it.

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Well history would seem to disagree with you... some nice pictures of the Dutch here BTW... http://www.iisg.nl/exhibitions/japaneseprints/

Funny I thought Nagasaki was on the mainland.

Here you go Snee

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Consensus among historians was once that Nagasaki was Japan's only window on the world during its time as a closed country in the Tokugawa era. However, nowadays it is generally accepted that this was not the case, since Japan interacted and traded with the Ryukyus, Korea and Russia through Satsuma, Tsushima and the north of Honshū respectively. Nevertheless, Nagasaki was depicted in contemporary art and literature as a cosmopolitan port brimming with exotic curiosities from the Western World.[2]

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And some more

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The policy stated that the only European influence permitted was the Dutch factory (trading post) at Dejima in Nagasaki. Trade with China was also handled at Nagasaki. In addition, trade with Korea was conducted via the Tsushima Domain (today part of Nagasaki Prefecture), with the Ainu via the Matsumae Domain in Hokkaidō, and with the Ryūkyū Kingdom via the Satsuma Domain (in present-day Kagoshima Prefecture). Apart from these direct commercial contacts in peripheral provinces, all of these countries sent regular tributary missions to the shogunate's seat in Edo. As the emissaries traveled across Japan, Japanese citizens caught a glimpse of foreign cultures.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by SpatulaGeekGirl

I know their age of consent is 13.

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It isn't usually that low in reality, though:

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Originally Posted by Moi

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Originally Posted by Submission

how many of you know that Japan's legal age of consent is 13?

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I did not know that. Mostly 'cos it's not true, technically.

In the real world, that varies between jurisdictions. In Tokyo the effective age of consent is 17 (I just googled for an example).

Canadian age of consent: 12/14/18 lololol.

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Wells, I meant it can be, is whats I meant. :dabs:

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

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Originally Posted by Snee

Did not say forced. They just turned up, bit like missionaries.

It's entirely possible to be unwelcome but still be treated with respect.

That kind of does nothing of the sort, but anyway. Didn't have much to do with the west, or them acquiring western technology, or 1854 either, or WWII, but still, whatever makes you feel good, I guess. EDit: Or them turning expansionist.
EDit:
They kept both the chinese and the dutch on Dejima, off-shore, and the trading with the dutch consisted mainly, if not entirely, of low-tech stuff like silk for copper, as far as I can recall. It's been a while since I read up on it.

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Well history would seem to disagree with you... some nice pictures of the Dutch here BTW... http://www.iisg.nl/exhibitions/japaneseprints/

Funny I thought Nagasaki was on the mainland.

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:blink:

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Originally Posted by From your site

From the 1630s to the middle of the nineteenth century, Japan was practically closed to foreigners. The only Westerners allowed to stay in Japan and engage in trade were the Dutch. They had to submit to very strict regulations, however, and were only allowed to live on Deshima, a small artificial island in Nagasaki harbor

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You might like to read post #105 Snee

Must be a different definition of mainland, Japania being all islands and all :dabs:

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

Here you go Snee

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Consensus among historians was once that Nagasaki was Japan's only window on the world during its time as a closed country in the Tokugawa era. However, nowadays it is generally accepted that this was not the case, since Japan interacted and traded with the Ryukyus, Korea and Russia through Satsuma, Tsushima and the north of Honshū respectively. Nevertheless, Nagasaki was depicted in contemporary art and literature as a cosmopolitan port brimming with exotic curiosities from the Western World.[2]

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Exotic curiosities...yes, like a fleet of steam ships, and modern weaponry.

Oh, no, wait, that was after 1854, silly me.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the term the west, as I'm using it. I'm referring to Europe and the Americas, perhaps you've heard of them?..

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And some more

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The policy stated that the only European influence permitted was the Dutch factory (trading post) at Dejima in Nagasaki. Trade with China was also handled at Nagasaki. In addition, trade with Korea was conducted via the Tsushima Domain (today part of Nagasaki Prefecture), with the Ainu via the Matsumae Domain in Hokkaidō, and with the Ryūkyū Kingdom via the Satsuma Domain (in present-day Kagoshima Prefecture). Apart from these direct commercial contacts in peripheral provinces, all of these countries sent regular tributary missions to the shogunate's seat in Edo. As the emissaries traveled across Japan, Japanese citizens caught a glimpse of foreign cultures.

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...doesn't quite sound like it.

They let emissaries from "local" nations travel to the shogunate seat AND did some trading with other countries in the region, though, that's got to mean something. Well, not really anything wrt what I've been saying, or them turning expansionist after having the merkins pressure them, but still.

EDit: Ryukyu was running frikkin Okinawa as late as 1879 according to wikipedia, I did not know that, kewl.

Snee

You might like to know that those poor ill educated and informed Japanese people who had western ways forced upon them actually taught western ways to their people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku

Mind you that kind of blows a hole in your theory about their feudal society not being able to cope with western knowledge and technologies... sorry about that.

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

None of my business like, Snee.

However feeding trolls, particularly such obvious ones doesn't strike me as your style.

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What is it with you JP... ?

That is the second time you have called me a troll... now I would suggest you put the fuck up and prove I'm a troll or STFU...

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

...

Bollocks! Cloud cuckoo land nice today is it ?

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Would sort of suggest that you are looking to be offensive rather than discuss something that you personally percieve to be a flawed assertion, as would the subsequent selective reading done by your very self later on.

But what do I know.

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Originally Posted by Snee

Exotic curiosities...yes, like a fleet of steam ships, and modern weaponry.

Oh, no, wait, that was after 1854, silly me.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the term the west, as I'm using it. I'm referring to Europe and the Americas, perhaps you've heard of them?..

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Nope... there's no mention of steam ships in what I posted... or modern weaponry... are you sure you're replying to the right thread ?

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...doesn't quite sound like it.

They let emissaries from "local" nations travel to the shogunate seat AND did some trading with other countries in the region, though, that's got to mean something. Well, not really anything wrt what I've been saying, or them turning expansionist after having the merkins pressure them, but still.

EDit: Ryukyu was running frikkin Okinawa as late as 179 according to wikipedia, I did not know that, kewl.

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Hmmm funny how they knew all about our ways before they opened up trade... yet only turned expansionist as the shogunate collapsed... not that the collapse of the shogunate could possibly have anything to do with the change in Japans relationship with the world... I mean it was only them who imposed by military force and massacres the closure of trade to begin with wasn't it ?

They considered foreign influence to be a forerunner to a western invasion of Japan... yet they set up schools and taught western sciences and medicine... so it wasn't that they weren't happy to trade with others... they just liked the security of dealing with people they knew then ?

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Originally Posted by Snee

Would sort of suggest that you are looking to be offensive rather than discuss something that you personally percieve to be a flawed assertion, as would the subsequent selective reading done by your very self later on.

But what do I know.

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Ah! Selective.. like not mentioning the Chinese you mean, or ignoring the Japanese setting up schools and educating their people in western ways and technology... that kind of selective you mean ?

You may not like that I'm blunt, just as JP apparently can't handle it, that's hardly my problem.

JP not up to putting his money where his mouth is then is it ?

In fact I'll tell you why I was so blunt... your post, the one I responded to was insulting to the Japanese, to suggest that they couldn't handle western ways and technology, when in reality they were actually better educated in our ways and technology than most nations of the pacific region at that time, indeed it was their very knowledge of our ways and technology that allowed them to exercise their expansionist dreams.

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

Snee

You might like to know that those poor ill educated and informed Japanese people who had western ways forced upon them actually taught western ways to their people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku

Mind you that kind of blows a hole in your theory about their feudal society not being able to cope with western knowledge and technologies... sorry about that.

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First of all, a feudal society implies a certain structure, not a level of knowledge "poor ill educated and informed" has exactly fuckall to do with societal structure, literacy and so forth.

Second of all, knowledge in medicine, architecture indoor-plumbing, basic science, microscopes and so forth does not equal bluprints for instruments of war. It can be argued that rangaku helped build a foundation for the rampant modernization after 1854 (1853 really, bakamatsu as that article calls it started then, after Perry's first visit), this is true, but the first actual steamship Japan had, for instance, was given to them in 1855 by the dutch, other ships were built for them by the british, and at the same time they'd started sending people off to check out the rest of the world.

Try as you might, there's no disputing that they did turn from insular to expansionist after 1854, having had a fleet of modern warships paraded in front of them, and that that's when they started building a modern army.

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Originally Posted by manicgeek

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Originally Posted by Snee

Would sort of suggest that you are looking to be offensive rather than discuss something that you personally percieve to be a flawed assertion, as would the subsequent selective reading done by your very self later on.

But what do I know.

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Ah! Selective.. like not mentioning the Chinese you mean, or ignoring the Japanese setting up schools and educating their people in western ways and technology... that kind of selective you mean?

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I'm beginning to think you are a bit thick, tbh.

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In fact I'll tell you why I was so blunt... your post, the one I responded to was insulting to the Japanese, to suggest that they couldn't handle western ways and technology, when in reality they were actually better educated in our ways and technology than most nations of the pacific region at that time, indeed it was their very knowledge of our ways and technology that allowed them to exercise their expansionist dreams.

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Same goes for this.^

Sorry 'bout being blunt, but I think you are a bit of a jackass.

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Originally Posted by Snee

First of all, a feudal society implies a certain structure, not a level of knowledge "poor ill educated and informed" has exactly fuckall to do with societal structure, literacy and so forth.

Second of all, knowledge in medicine, architecture indoor-plumbing, basic science, microscopes and so forth does not equal bluprints for instruments of war. It can be argued that rangaku helped build a foundation for the rampant modernization after 1854 (1853 really, bakamatsu as that article calls it started then, after Perry's first visit), this is true, but the first actual steamship Japan had, for instance, was given to them in 1855 by the dutch, other ships were built for them by the british, and at the same time they'd started sending people off to check out the rest of the world.

Try as you might, there's no disputing that they did turn from insular to expansionist after 1854, having had a fleet of modern warships paraded in front of them, and that that's when they started building a modern army.

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No you portrayed them as having been backwards and ill informed, unable to cope with the technology and the knowledge, and that was wrong because they weren't. Their expansionist dreams and acts where theirs and theirs alone.

I know it's popular in western countries at the moment to blame the west for everything bad that has ever happened to anyone, anywhere, at anytime, but that is a load of bollock. There are bad people the world over, there have been bad people the world over since time began, and there will always be bad people the world over. Blaming the west for it won't change anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snee

I'm beginning to think you are a bit thick, tbh.

Same goes for this.^

Sorry 'bout being blunt, but I think you are a bit of a jackass.

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So you are from the same mold as JP then :yup:

One of them who comes on the internet and spouts crap and resorts to name calling when your arguments are challenged... Hmmm big clever man eh ? :lol:

I think what Snee was saying was that the Japanese have every right to have a complex against the West since the West apparently dragged them kicking and screaming into the 20th century and bombed the fuck out of them in WW2.

I think that's probably just as you say, the result of having a Western guilt complex. As I've said a few pages back, the Japanese are doing exceptionally well out of being a world power and I've never got the impression there's any bitterness towards the West in that regard. They will keep bleating on about the atom bombs but if they weren't such a proud people only one of those bombs need have gone off, and it was their choice to enter WW2 anyway.

Throughout history nations and empires have been exposed to external influence. It's how the world moves on. To suggest that anyone has a right to be upset about that is a nonsense.