Should Acct trades be allowed here?

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Originally Posted by Skizo

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Originally Posted by puckface

Yes. Period.

Quote from Skizo:
We don't owe you anything.

We don't owe any tracker anything.

Our main focus is FST, nothing else. That focus includes helping our members and being an informative resource for file sharing information all-around. The CR rank was all give on our part and required absolutely nothing from you or any other tracker staff member. You should be happy that it lasted as long as it did as you all got what you wanted and didn't have to do anything to get it.

Basically he is saying that FST has no business and does not care what tracker rules are, that nothing is required and FST is the main focus. If this is true, this poll should not even be here.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

Making a point that we owe them nothing and saying we don't care at all about their rules are two completely different ideals.

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now that you clarify, thats fine, but thats how it sounded to me. so thanks for setting me straight.

so let me ask this, if trading gets taken away, will giveaways also be banned since a lot of trackers say that you should only give your invites to people you know personally? Not to mention account giveaways.

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Originally Posted by puckface

predictably, a vast majority of those against trading, here and in the forums are those who already have the trackers they want

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You're confusing cause and effect mate.
It's because those members don't trade that they have the high level accounts, not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by puckface

so let me ask this, if trading gets taken away, will giveaways also be banned since a lot of trackers say that you should only give your invites to people you know personally?

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According to OP's post this poll is only about account trading (and I guess account giveaway). Invites trading/giveaway was not mentioned.

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Originally Posted by puckface

will giveaways also be banned since a lot of trackers say that you should only give your invites to people you know personally?

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erm...:blink::wacko: weird...

I like most of the older members here voted no, of course I vote no, I can see the wider picture, allowing a/c trading here has hardened the attitudes of the tracker staff, that you so want to join, there are no more staff giveaways, do you see staff helping in the bt help threads any more? Think about it from a larger perspective rather than your own personal wants, if the situation continues then when an a/c trader is found his a/c's will disappear on a network of trackers.
Simply put a/c trading hurts the integrity of the trackers, therefore they will actively hunt a/c traders period. Unlike puckface I believe that FST is apart of the BT community and it now has the choice to be a forum that helps the community or can descend into a trading forum.
If it becomes purely a trading forum then the staff participation will purely be to track traders and notify those that have been caught that their a/c is gone and that other a/c's will shortly follow, this situation I personally will be sad to see, even in this section staff used to participate as much as the users, but do you see Brandon or Vidde laughing and joking here anymore ?
As others have said think carefully before you vote, and think not just of yourselves and what you want in the short term but what is best for FST and the BT community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by puckface

so let me ask this, if trading gets taken away, will giveaways also be banned since a lot of trackers say that you should only give your invites to people you know personally?

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According to OP's post this poll is only about account trading (and I guess account giveaway). Invites trading/giveaway was not mentioned.

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Thank you sir. But, Im just bringing up an alternate point. The point being.. Rules are Rules.

No

Recently I have lost a lot of respect towards fst and how their staff handles stuff

They pointed out that they dont care about the trackers which is really the base for fst

Well if they dont give respect they wont earn respect

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Originally Posted by fazzy07

No

Recently I have lost a lot of respect towards fst and how their staff handles stuff

They pointed out that they dont care about the trackers which is really the base for fst

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That is not the base of FST. :wacko:

The Invites section is just one of many sections. Have you seen the rest of the forum? :unsure:

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Originally Posted by Skizo

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Originally Posted by fazzy07

No

Recently I have lost a lot of respect towards fst and how their staff handles stuff

They pointed out that they dont care about the trackers which is really the base for fst

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That is not the base of FST. :wacko:

The Invites section is just one of many sections. Have you seen the rest of the forum? :unsure:

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Yeah I did and yet more then 60-70% of activity is in the bittorrent section

I say no...for all the reasons stated above which I don't see the need to repeat ad nauseum. I would like to add that it shouldn't be allowed for the simple reason that it lowers FST's rep in the BT community. It paints it's members in such a light where they have to fear for their tracker accounts just for being a member.

Anyone who truly cares about the direction of this forum should want it to have a better reputation and relationship with trackers, right? It's interesting that znick called it a vendetta in many ways that's true. I'll just remind you a vendetta is often a fight to the death.

i say NO

Does it really matter?

I mean regardless of w/e you do, people with intention of trading WILL trade (that includes account). Yes, of course, making "no account trading" official will minimize it but will it really stop account trading? I don't think so. Let's not forget the CR rules we had a while ago. FSTers were not allowed to trade certain accounts but i am sure it didn't stop it. Often traders used vague words to bypass the rules: "lvl 9 account", "have good offer"...can u really say whether that is an account or an invite? Likely not. In addition to that, FST isn't the only forum that allows trading so even if you do ban account trading, it still will NOT stop account trading in the WHOLE BT community. Traders can go somewhere else (unless that is what you (FST staff) want). Moreover, i am sure 99.9% trader already know trading (account as well as invite) is already against tracker rule. If they don't wanna follow tracker rule, what on blue hell makes u think they will follow FST rule?

BTW, why are we voting for or against "account trading", why not "trading" as a whole instead? Sounds much like a per-planned stuff to me. If majority vote "yes" then probably it will still be allowed. If it's other way, then the new rule (no account trading) can be cheap bargain for CR stuff? That way, FSTer can trade happily and CR are happy as well. Oh wait, it's human nature "we can't get enough". So what makes u think, those who oppose account trading will be quite after this? I mean, most who oppose account trading already oppose invite trading so does that mean trading as a whole will be banned from FST? If so, what's next, baning giveaway or better yet colasping the whole bittorrent invite section?

Lastly, if this is an attempt to make up for CR stuff, i think it's pathetic. If this is the evolution of FST (going for what majority believe) then :thumbsup:

P.S. I am a non-trader but since i saw many "no" post i though i would speak for the other side.

P.P.S. my vote is "NO".




:drunk:

I voted no due to the fact that I seen what can happen when a user trades and account and then ends up blacklisted because his ip/email/nick is attached to it.

Example: User A has an account and gives or trades it to user B then user B turns around and sells it on some forum or Ebay and gets caught. I know you know what happens next which is user B and users A info is gather all up and passed around to bunch of sites and gets blacklisted and on some sites that could even affect a third person since some sites hold the inviter responsible.

Then you have user A coming back to the staff asking why he was banned from site A, B, and C, not knowing what happened and thats when you have to break the bad news to him that he is now known as an account seller which in my eyes are the scum of the BT community.

It really sucks when this kind of thing happens because maybe the original owner meant no harm but then again its a lesson learned.

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Originally Posted by znik

Cabalo so basically what you are telling us is that since it is allowed for example on ebay to trade accounts for money and it is doomed to happen, why not even let it happen here as well, in a cozy enviroment.
Right? :O

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you can't compare FST to ebay, it's a very poor comparison you are making.
I won't call it cozy here, i would call it a lesser public place and, as a community here, way more contained.
I think that anyone that reads what i type at least using 1 open eye will understand this point of view.

(sorry for not using smilies on my text)

ohhh, its a really close call ATM,

95 to 99

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

Does it really matter?

I mean regardless of w/e you do, people with intention of trading WILL trade (that includes account). Yes, of course, making "no account trading" official will minimize it but will it really stop account trading? I don't think so. Let's not forget the CR rules we had a while ago. FSTers were not allowed to trade certain accounts but i am sure it didn't stop it. Often traders used vague words to bypass the rules: "lvl 9 account", "have good offer"...can u really say whether that is an account or an invite? Likely not. In addition to that, FST isn't the only forum that allows trading so even if you do ban account trading, it still will NOT stop account trading in the WHOLE BT community. Traders can go somewhere else (unless that is what you (FST staff) want). Moreover, i am sure 99.9% trader already know trading (account as well as invite) is already against tracker rule. If they don't wanna follow tracker rule, what on blue hell makes u think they will follow FST rule?

BTW, why are we voting for or against "account trading", why not "trading" as a whole instead? Sounds much like a per-planned stuff to me. If majority vote "yes" then probably it will still be allowed. If it's other way, then the new rule (no account trading) can be cheap bargain for CR stuff? That way, FSTer can trade happily and CR are happy as well. Oh wait, it's human nature "we can't get enough". So what makes u think, those who oppose account trading will be quite after this? I mean, most who oppose account trading already oppose invite trading so does that mean trading as a whole will be banned from FST? If so, what's next, baning giveaway or better yet colasping the whole bittorrent invite section?

Lastly, if this is an attempt to make up for CR stuff, i think it's pathetic. If this is the evolution of FST (going for what majority believe) then :thumbsup:

P.S. I am a non-trader but since i saw many "no" post i though i would speak for the other side.

P.P.S. my vote is "NO".




:drunk:

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and i thought you were only spamming over here, nice post ;)

Like i stated various times over. Account trading should be prohibited. Just give harsh infractions or ban users completely, who impose on the rules and decide not to follow them. I'm not 100% against invite trading, but I stopped doing that long, long ago, when i was educated on how it is perceived to be trading and I was new to the bittorrent world(So now i'm against it as well). Account trading can not be tolerated at all ever, under any circumstances. It's vile to the Bittorrent Community(The person who gets the newly traded account, did not earn the right to it or initially set up that account). Thats my two sense on this issue. Sweet and short. No 6 page rants.

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Originally Posted by Polarbear

here's another thing to think about for all you invite seekers:

90% of the people who have memberships on high level trackers on fst were invited by staff - not by account traders.

stopping account trading will actually raise your chances of getting invites to the trackers most of you dream of!

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Yes, yes, yes, yes. Sticky that whole post.

I voted NO NO NO.

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Originally Posted by KFlint

and i thought you were only spamming over here, nice post ;)

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u thought right :lol:

I vote NO

Since joining FST, I've learned a lot in this space of time about BT and trackers through the knowledge that members have kindly shared here.
In a way it opened my eyes but it never changed my opinion that being a member of a tracker is a privilege. When you join a tracker, you agree to adhere to the rules and most, if not all trackers ban trading accounts and even invites.

A place like FST where you have a community means there will be differing interests and balancing these interests maybe a delicate task but I think we shouldn't lose sight of the big picture, so I heartily agree with what Artemis has said below:-

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Originally Posted by Artemis

As others have said think carefully before you vote, and think not just of yourselves and what you want in the short term but what is best for FST and the BT community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

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Originally Posted by znik

Cabalo so basically what you are telling us is that since it is allowed for example on ebay to trade accounts for money and it is doomed to happen, why not even let it happen here as well, in a cozy enviroment.
Right? :O

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you can't compare FST to ebay, it's a very poor comparison you are making.
I won't call it cozy here, i would call it a lesser public place and, as a community here, way more contained.
I think that anyone that reads what i type at least using 1 open eye will understand this point of view.

(sorry for not using smilies on my text)

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Why not. It's exactly the same thing. Highest bidder gets it.

A says he has high level account/invite and to post or PM. B, C, D and E give him offers. D gets it because he offered what was worth most to A.

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I say ban both account trading and giveaways.

Exception should be giveaways specifically allowed by staff

Big NO

Spoiler: Show

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

Does it really matter?

I mean regardless of w/e you do, people with intention of trading WILL trade (that includes account). Yes, of course, making "no account trading" official will minimize it but will it really stop account trading? I don't think so. Let's not forget the CR rules we had a while ago. FSTers were not allowed to trade certain accounts but i am sure it didn't stop it. Often traders used vague words to bypass the rules: "lvl 9 account", "have good offer"...can u really say whether that is an account or an invite? Likely not. In addition to that, FST isn't the only forum that allows trading so even if you do ban account trading, it still will NOT stop account trading in the WHOLE BT community. Traders can go somewhere else (unless that is what you (FST staff) want). Moreover, i am sure 99.9% trader already know trading (account as well as invite) is already against tracker rule. If they don't wanna follow tracker rule, what on blue hell makes u think they will follow FST rule?

BTW, why are we voting for or against "account trading", why not "trading" as a whole instead? Sounds much like a per-planned stuff to me. If majority vote "yes" then probably it will still be allowed. If it's other way, then the new rule (no account trading) can be cheap bargain for CR stuff? That way, FSTer can trade happily and CR are happy as well. Oh wait, it's human nature "we can't get enough". So what makes u think, those who oppose account trading will be quite after this? I mean, most who oppose account trading already oppose invite trading so does that mean trading as a whole will be banned from FST? If so, what's next, baning giveaway or better yet colasping the whole bittorrent invite section?

Lastly, if this is an attempt to make up for CR stuff, i think it's pathetic. If this is the evolution of FST (going for what majority believe) then :thumbsup:

P.S. I am a non-trader but since i saw many "no" post i though i would speak for the other side.

P.P.S. my vote is "NO".

:drunk:

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squirr3l I think we all agree that account trading is much worse than invite trading.

If trackers wanted to control better invite trading, it would be easy for them to change the way they are offering invites to their members, or lock their invitation system altogether.

Let's assume that account trades were not allowed here.
Would it really matter if someone offered an "its" with closed invitation system and didn't mention whether it was an account or invite?
It would be pretty obvious that it would be an account, since there wouldn't be any invites and thus, violating the FST rules (apart from the trackers' rules)

Remember that trackers can easily track you down regardless if FST is a jungle or not, and that will be more possible if you piss them off and make them put all their efforts into that.

Not allowing account trades would be a decisive first step in the right direction. A gesture of good will towards the trackers in general (and not only those that came into an agreement) and I believe trackers wouldn't be ungrateful to that, since FST would take some load of work out of their shoulders. (and out of the shoulders of their middlemen :P)

(*) and we don't care if account traders would continue somewhere else.
Do you really care for example if drugs are sold somewhere else or if they are sold within your house? :dabs:

If I were FST I would only allow request's from all fst members(Not a request for an account only an invite)after 3 months of being a member here(this will weave out all the non serious members and traders). Also have specific giveaway's approved by FST staff from BT staff only(Not members).

edit: good point znik about the drugs being sold.

I vote yes. I don't trade because I have no reason to but who cares if others trade? I don't think that banning it will change anything. I agree with squirr3l: Those who want to trade will trade. I'm sure already that there are plenty of people who belong to other trading communities and come here and say, "Oh gosh, I never trade, I'm a good guy" but in reality, they're off trading accounts on another forum. Banning trading here will just encourage trading in other places. So who cares?

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Originally Posted by fazzy07

No

Recently I have lost a lot of respect towards fst and how their staff handles stuff

They pointed out that they dont care about the trackers which is really the base for fst

Well if they dont give respect they wont earn respect

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Wow how we handle stuff!? what "stuff" do you mean? Pleas be a bit more specific before throwing things around like this also the word "They" we are staff here and ALL have respect for other staffers but it doesn't always mean we agree

I don't at all support account trading, but i think we should be pro-choice so i voted yes. i think people should have the option to trade accounts without being warned.

I agree with Grimms.:fst:
Also I struggle with trades as really don't have any high level trackers to use in a trade.:(

I'm for allowing trading. However, PLEASE IN A SEPARATE FORUM (it's too confusing - why not separate section only for GA and another separate section only for trade?)

My 2 cents before i go to bed.

There are way to many bad reasons to list, on why giveaways/invite trading/account trading is a bad thing on a public forum.

But. shit happened and we have to deal with it, If FST took away the invite section, then another one would pop up in its place somewhere else.

I quite like this place, as a forum and a place to chat with like minded members and other staffers of torrent sites, and the staff from here as well.

I dont come here to go on a hunt for bad members every day.

But, if i see anyone doing something bad in regards to BCG, i will do my level best to find out who they are and ban them from my site.

The problem is with all of the above. The staff on these trackers are trusting you with an account or an invite, we believe your a good member, hence why you got the invite in the first place (or were invited by another good member).

If you then turn around and do the above on a public forum, it just doesnt look good to the staff of those trackers, as we think you should have better judgement than that.

But saying that, FST and similar sites are here to stay.

But.. if you do any of the above on here, and get your account disabled, dont come crying to the tracker staff, it was your fault for doing what you did on here (some trackers are stricter than others).

There also seems to be a lot more scamming going on these days. Remember if you cant change the Email or the Passkey on the account (and that includes BCG) DO NOT trade for it, as in all likely hood, you will get scammed, or disabled anyway. (some may slip through the net, but not many)

So do i think FST should Allow trading of accounts, No i dont.

But on the other hand, if they do keep them, and trackers end up banning a lot of members from here for doing it, then dont get pissed off at the tracker staff.

I totally agrre with what squirr3l has said. Having said this let me just add...

The point here is should FST have an invite forum at all.

I noticed that many that voted no also added " no trader here " and things like that. The issue that is really beeing debated here is if, in the end, we should give/trade invites/accounts at all.

Saying "trading accounts" is just a mild way of starting to get to the bottom of this cause we can't think of anything much worser than trading accounts, can we? It will even make a few of us that actually have rep points vote "no". It's clever.

But bear with me... if this is about tracker rules let´s not get hypocritical here. Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

Now, if you told me that there was to be some kind of compromise between FST and tracker's staff that would be a totally different thing. At least the poll would make sense. If, for instance, banning the trading/giving of accounts would allow FST to have an invite forum without having tracker's staff all over it that would make some sense although I don't see how that could be guaranteed... Anyway, is there a formal compromise? Even only the start of something remotely close to a compromise?

What I am definitelly against is not knowing where we really stand... worse... where the FST staff stands on this and I can't see how a poll started under these circunstances can help us getting anywhere.

It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure and those who have a more commercial view on the issue and know perfectly well that every time we look at the main board half of the FST population is dwelling on the bitorrent section and that most of those are regular visitors of the invites sub-forum. IMHO, there is, unfortunatelly, no middle ground here ( unless something like I said above is actually possible)

I'm talking as an FST member debating an FST problem because I think that is what this really is. We can open another poll/thread if we want to discuss tracker's concerns.

*If FST want some respect from tracker staff; it should respect trackers rules. a yes to the poll means a mid-finger pointing upward to the tracker rule and staff.
*If this is forum is made venue for treading Acct. there is little different is this forum allow the discussion of cheat scrips and how best to cheat. Both break tracker rules and both lead to a ban.
*This forum is a great place to learn about filesharing; don't spoil it by teaching people to break the rules. This forum gain nothing if acct threading is allowed; only more threaders and rule breakers. ie meaning problem. We will lost more than we gain.

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Originally Posted by znik

squirr3l I think we all agree that account trading is much worse than invite trading.

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I do agree but i don't think everyone agrees with that. There are many users here who don't see different between account trading and invite trading at all. Hell, there are bunch who don't even perceive trading as bad. "It's my account, it's my invite...i can do w/e i want with it", have we not heard this plenty of times here?

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Originally Posted by znik

Let's assume that account trades were not allowed here.
Would it really matter if someone offered an ftn/fsc/its with closed invitation system and didn't mention whether it was an account or invite?
It would be pretty obvious that it would be an account, since there wouldn't be any invites and thus, violating the FST rules (apart from the trackers' rules)

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I was taking in general, not being specific down to a tracker. btw, iTS invites are open :P

So, what if someone vaugly offers a tracker with open invitation? How are you gonna differentiate between an account trade and invite trade? Should FST staff go through PM of each and every suspects? Should there be another rule that says "be specific with your offer"?

I think there is just too much trouble that comes with this nonsense. Just ban the whole damn trading or let it ALL out.

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Originally Posted by znik

Not allowing account trades would be a decisive first step in the right direction. A gesture of good will towards the trackers in general (and not only those that came into an agreement) and I believe trackers wouldn't be ungrateful to that, since FST would take some load of work out of their shoulders. (and out of the shoulders of their middlemen :P)

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FST staff aren't here to make tracker staff's job easy lol

If they were, they would be giving 'em IP's (which they don't), FST wouldn't have place for traders (when it is), there won't be WIAW thread (which i am sure most tracker staffer dislike), there won't be giveaway for site that do not like giveaway (bitme, bitmetv, what.cd), there won't be thread or post mentioning site that do not like publicity (rabbit, wheel, lossless etc). Leaving all that, how on earth FST staffer see account trading as a way to make tracker staffer's job easy, eh? :naughty:

I have to say that there is at least one favor FST does to tracker staffer. FST brings all trader in one place; that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

The only favor i can see is: FST brings all trader in one place, that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

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I agree with you there. I hate the fact that trading could still be around regardless of this polls outcome, but if it is? I think FST should at least consider two seperate sections to quarantine the trading/giveaway problem better.Have strict penalties for trading in the giveaway section and vice versa. This is obviously if FST staff decide to keep things the way they are currently(Which i hope they don't)

Current stats:

yes: 109
no:118

This is a close race folks.

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

I have to say that there is at least one favor FST does to tracker staffer. FST brings all trader in one place; that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

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That's nowhere like it's now, and why would traders continue staying here if they notice that everyone are getting disabled when trading at FST?

After watching some trackers forum when their users notice trading and such I would say FST are in a minority of those. Atleast for those trackers I'm in. And why not make FST a better place overall for what their userbase wants. If a yes goes through it will make FST's reputation for those that have hated it a small step forward. I mean there are a lot of people still thinking that anyone registered and posting at FST is a bastard. My opinion is that that should change. But It won't, but a yes here would be a little better. I like FST and I enjoy the whole forum, and the 'bit-tard' section. Though not the invite forum lately since it's just too much for me. And It would be nice for me seeing it getting more respect from those people not respecting it.

And I don't get why some are saying that because other forum have shit, why should FST have it as well.

Ps my personal opinion that it's "shit".

Peace Act.

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Originally Posted by Neo

But bear with me... if this is about tracker rules let´s not get hypocritical here. Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

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yeah, it's like saying "i somewhat love u" :lol:

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Originally Posted by Neo

Now, if you told me that there was to be some kind of compromise between FST and tracker's staff that would be a totally different thing. At least the poll would make sense. If, for instance, banning the trading/giving of accounts would allow FST to have an invite forum without having tracker's staff all over it that would make some sense although I don't see how that could be guaranteed... Anyway, is there a formal compromise? Even only the start of something remotely close to a compromise?

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CR was the type of compromise you are talking about.

But i don't think banning all account trade is a compromise by ANY mean. I agree that some ex-CR will keep their end and let invite trade pass by their nose. However, ALL staffer for sure won't. We have seen ex-CR ignore the CR rule and yet ban FSTer for invite trading so what guarantees that a random staff won't ban just coz FST doesn't allow account trading? They for sure will. In fact, they will get more time to go after invite trader coz there won't be any (very negligible at least) account trader to change after lol

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Originally Posted by Neo

I totally agrre with what squirr3l has said. Having said this let me just add...

The point here is should FST have an invite forum at all.

I noticed that many that voted no also added " no trader here " and things like that. The issue that is really beeing debated here is if, in the end, we should give/trade invites/accounts at all.

Saying "trading accounts" is just a mild way of starting to get to the bottom of this cause we can't think of anything much worser than trading accounts, can we? It will even make a few of us that actually have rep points vote "no". It's clever.

But bear with me... if this is about tracker rules let´s not get hypocritical here. Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

Now, if you told me that there was to be some kind of compromise between FST and tracker's staff that would be a totally different thing. At least the poll would make sense. If, for instance, banning the trading/giving of accounts would allow FST to have an invite forum without having tracker's staff all over it that would make some sense although I don't see how that could be guaranteed... Anyway, is there a formal compromise? Even only the start of something remotely close to a compromise?

What I am definitelly against is not knowing where we really stand... worse... where the FST staff stands on this and I can't see how a poll started under these circunstances can help us getting anywhere.

It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure and those who have a more commercial view on the issue and know perfectly well that every time we look at the main board half of the FST population is dwelling on the bitorrent section and that most of those are regular visitors of the invites sub-forum. IMHO, there is, unfortunatelly, no middle ground here ( unless something like I said above is actually possible)

I'm talking as an FST member debating an FST problem because I think that is what this really is. We can open another poll/thread if we want to discuss tracker's concerns.

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" The point here is should FST have an invite forum at all."
Ummmm no the point here, as I started the thread, is to see what the members here wanted.

"Saying "trading accounts" is just a mild way of starting to get to the bottom of this cause we can't think of anything much worser than trading accounts, can we?"

Sure I can think of about 10 but the first one that comes to mind is Account Selling.

"What I am definitelly against is not knowing where we really stand... worse... where the FST staff stands on this and I can't see how a poll started under these circunstances can help us getting anywhere."

Umm we are trying to find out where the members stand here. Wherever the FST staff stand is their business and even if my personal feelings are against some rule here I will do as I always have done and that is protect FST members and Uphold FST rules. What "Circumstances" are you referring to?

" It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure " What! what does this even mean? FST has NEVER given in to "pressure" from ANY Tracker lets not forget FST has been here before the BT section when it was a Kazza forum so I think you should do some better research before you post seemingly uninformed things like this.

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Originally Posted by TP635

*If FST want some respect from tracker staff; it should respect trackers rules. a yes to the poll means a mid-finger pointing upward to the tracker rule and staff.
*If this is forum is made venue for treading Acct. there is little different is this forum allow the discussion of cheat scrips and how best to cheat. Both break tracker rules and both lead to a ban.
*This forum is a great place to learn about filesharing; don't spoil it by teaching people to break the rules. This forum gain nothing if acct threading is allowed; only more threaders and rule breakers. ie meaning problem. We will lost more than we gain.

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Who ever said that FSt wants or cares about respect from tracker staff!?

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Originally Posted by Actatoi

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Originally Posted by squirr3l

I have to say that there is at least one favor FST does to tracker staffer. FST brings all trader in one place; that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

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That's nowhere like it's now, and why would traders continue staying here if they notice that everyone are getting disabled when trading at FST?

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i am not good at being sarcastic, am i? ;)

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Originally Posted by Actatoi

And why not make FST a better place overall for what their userbase wants. If a yes goes through it will make FST's reputation for those that have hated it a small step forward.

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key word = If

the poll result says it all.

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Originally Posted by Actatoi

I mean there are a lot of people still thinking that anyone registered and posting at FST is a bastard. My opinion is that that should change.

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Yeah, i have seen people with that attitude but their attitude is non of my business.

edit: sounds like there won't be new rule disallowing account trading :erm:

I voted NO. Here in FST or other BT forums user must be responsible to their accounts.

[/QUOTE]
" It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure " What! what does this even mean? FST has NEVER given in to "pressure" from ANY Tracker lets not forget FST has been here before the BT section when it was a Kazza forum so I think you should do some better research before you post seemingly uninformed things like this.
[/quote]

I'm sorry for this statement. I should have, in fact, informed myself better. What I meant ( even with that broken english ) is that there must indeed be a lot of pressure and that your members are in fact beeing hunted down. I also meant that there must be those among you that feel that trading should just disappear altogether... and that there are those that, for various reasons, think it shouldn't. If there was unanimous feeling about this we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place... I just would like to know what's is the general feeling if there is any.

About the "trading accounts" bit... well, of course there is worse but I guess not here.

The "current circunstances" are everything that has happened lately with the CR stuff and the increased pressure that traders/giveawayers are feeling here and how that should/would mobilize those who are against them in a "let's-finish-them-off" kind of way.

I, myself, don't have a completely formed opinion about this. I'm just trying to discuss it and pointing out some issues that I feel are important. I'm trying to weight the pros and cons of all this.

You addressed parts of my post that are not that well explained or not that well put or even where I'm plainly wrong but I would really like you to also comment on this sentence:

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Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

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It is because of what is implied by me here that I can't really see the point of the poll... that is if it will be the base for a future FST policy on the issue.

To be very blunt: it is clear now that 'No's' will win, even if by a relatively small margin. May I ask what will happen then.

Cheers.

Neo

I sorta skimmed through the last portion of this thread so far.. Some of the posts were long and time is short.. Anyways, I'll comment on some of the earlier posts.

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Originally Posted by Tiantian

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Originally Posted by Brandon

Accounts are personal. They were given to you by a friend, or someone that trusted you and wanted to share with YOU.. You do not own the account, which is why you can be disabled at any time for any reason.. Therefore technically you do not have the right to give that account away for any reason.

Should it be allowed? No. Not respectfully at least unless FST wants a lot of enemies who have a lot of influence. Should you FST users want FST to allow it? I would say no.. Why? It creates a hostile environment, and with the recent changes in certain deals made between FST and other staff, there's already an underground staff link that's now effectively trading your (yes, you users) info, including your IP's, your emails, etc. In the long run, this is a bad thing because pretty soon even invite traders will be easily caught and then you also will be pissed off when a trade goes bad and you get nothing out of it.

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i concur that, but it's unfortunate that staffers are logging personal details of members without telling us?

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That can go two ways. For a staff members view, we could say it's unfortunate you're trading and or selling/using our invites or accounts as currency without our upfront knowledge. If you play dirty, you can't expect us to not play dirty as well.

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Originally Posted by seppypom

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Originally Posted by Brandon

lol, this is by far the WORST place to ask this question... ur posting in a trading forum whether or not acct trading should be allowed. Who u think looks at this forum section the most? ;)

That's like me going to bar and asking if alcohol should be served.

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I thought the same thing. by the way, bacardi black please!

and BTW, my vote was NO

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Right on! :01:

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

In fact i am very much against account trading, but i voted yes, it should be allowed.

And why is this, u ask? because the fact is that people that really want to trade an account will do it, no matter if it is here or at another place, and the probability of finding more "dangerous" users to a tracker is probably higher than here, that many people know each other, and a lot of staff roams at the invites section.

All in all, continuing to allow trading accounts here will minimize the risk of unwanted users joining a tracker, which is far higher at some other places. Think of it as an instrument for tracker's staff.
Ok, some won't get caught, but the ones that escape probably aren't as much of an issue if they come from a place where everyone knows everyone and that if u mess up after a trade, your ass is fried.

There will always be account trading, whether be it here or somewhere else.

just my 2 cents

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I disagree with you on some points. Yes they will do it elsewhere, but it's still getting the scum off at least part of the street so to say. It's like ur saying "people are going to murder no matter what, so why not just let them hang out on the streets?"


At least we know there's one less place on the internet where people are abusing our time, effort, and kindness.

I think we should create new category called trading and anyone wanna go there has to register for it so will be marked as TRADER lol .