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Why doesn't he/she just appear in Times Square, Trafalgar Square, Tiananmen Square etc. I'm sure that would turn the whole World into God fearing subjects.:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by LubTheStaringCat
God meets secularism on the battlefield of a man's (or woman's) faith.
And abrogate the requirement of faith?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboabWhy doesn't he/she just appear in Times Square, Trafalgar Square, Tiananmen Square etc. I'm sure that would turn the whole World into God fearing subjects.:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
What would be the point.
To prove to the unbelievers that there is a supreme being. The Bible would no longer be a book based on Chinese Whispers and fables from Aesop.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4And abrogate the requirement of faith?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
What would be the point.
"Unbelievers" won't believe in miracles either, Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboabTo prove to the unbelievers that there is a supreme being. The Bible would no longer be a book based on Chinese Whispers and fables from Aesop.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
It's easier to attribute phenomena to science, you see, which takes us right back to...faith.
You accept miracles as the work of God. Why don't you accept disasters as the work of God too? Then again that might negate some of the 'miracles'.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4"Unbelievers" won't believe in miracles either, Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
It's easier to attribute phenomena to science, you see, which takes us right back to...faith.
Like the girl who survived the air crash in the indian ocean recently. 'Praise the Lord, it's a miracle'. No mention of the Lords' involvement in the death of the other 153 passengers.:whistling
We will have to agree to differ on religion Kev. However at my age I am keeping my options open.:lol:
There is very little difference between my DNA and a potatoes..
And yet a strain of Flavobacterium is capable of digesting certain byproducts of nylon manufacture, even though those substances are not known to have existed before the invention of nylon in 1935. The three enzymes the bacteria are using to digest the byproducts are significantly different from any other enzymes produced by other Flavobacterium strains (or any other bacteria for that matter), and not effective on any material other than the manmade nylon byproducts... forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that an example of Evolution in action?
As I said before, even if that is evidence of Evolution, its not evidence regarding whether God(s)(ess)(esses) exist. Just evidence against Creationism, which is a wholley different, if connected subject.
I don't recall creationists making an argument that evolution does not occur, just that perhaps Darwin's theories are not sufficiently rigorous to encompass the sum total of the change they presume to explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Well, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Nothing to do with creationism or evolution. It just proves that RF is a good spud.:whistling
I suppose, since merely knowing him wouldn't be taken as proof, not with this crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
I mean, if someone were to require proof I enjoy hanging out here on a Saturday morning, that would be as convincing as anything else I could offer up.
Who created God?
man:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by Recursacro
How about who created soil and rocks,am sure they evolved too,right?Quote:
Who created God?
Geological forces created rocks and a combination of geological and biological forces created soil.Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
To put it simply. :blink:
Thanks.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaGeological forces created rocks and a combination of geological and biological forces created soil.Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
To put it simply. :blink:
who created these geological forces that created rocks and this combination of geological and biological forces that created soil also who created the matter that these forces utilised to create these rocks and soil and am not taking answers that you've picked off google.Quote:
Geological forces created rocks and a combination of geological and biological forces created soil.
Well this could get quite circular couldn't it, so let's cut to the chase...
As far as you're concerned, anything you can't explain must be attributed to some kind of superbeing, you also can't explain. Correct?
No,i just want people to keep an open mind.People easily forget that even with this theory based on evidence there comes a point when it kinda boils down to faith.
Faith boils down to the assuming rule: You all just look like asses.Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
Don't believe anything until you know it's true. Then you're never let down. Faith is for weak minded people to use when they need to get their hopes up.
Practices like Buddhism make one look in themselves, not to any fake being. Don't pray for yourself, or anyone else. Instead, do something to make things how you want them: Take initiative.
@bigboab to my previous question:
You've got it!
So soil and rocks created God then?Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
What's your argument?
:P
New ScientistQuote:
It turns out that human beings have a natural inclination for religious belief, especially during hard times.
All cultures have a belief in a supernatural being. Between Christianity and Islam most of the other beliefs in the Western World were coerced into either Islam or Christianity. The vast continent of South America is a perfect example. How many ancient beliefs, some of which may have helped mankind today, were destroyed.
In short, everyone should be allowed to believe in what they want without due influence or interference from other beliefs.
In short; Wilkins Micawber:lol:
Live and let live
Could you please allow me to call you an idiot?Quote:
Practices like Buddhism make one look in themselves, not to any fake being. Don't pray for yourself, or anyone else. Instead, do something to make things how you want them: Take initiative.
How do you know you possess the DNA double helix given that you've never seen yours?
How sure are you that darwin wrote the origin of species if you aren't the one who supplied him with ink?
How sure are you that you were born by a human being and not through pollination of a he and a she avocado?
How sure are you that live tv is live?
Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
Deep, man.
Makes me question my faith or something.
I was gonna respond but I'm not even sure if I'm typing this..Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
Deep, man.
Makes me question my faith or something.
Quote:
Could you please allow me to call you an idiot?
Sticks and stones etc. (I know you did not mean me but the phrase applies):whistling
Quote:
How do you know you possess the DNA double helix given that you've never seen yours?
I don't, but I assume as I am like most other people who have proven the existence of DNA that I will be the same.
Quote:
How sure are you that darwin wrote the origin of species if you aren't the one who supplied him with ink?
Same applies to parts of the Bible, Koran etc. How do you know that that those things happened, when you did not see them happen.
I am definitely sure about this one; I have a dark green colour in the morning. I am pear shaped. I have rough skin and creamy flesh and I came from a family tree.:wacko:Quote:
How sure are you that you were born by a human being and not through pollination of a he and a she avocado?
We never see anything live. Because of the time lapse, due to the speed of light, something could be dead by the time I see it. If the wee Martian jumps up and down you won't see the event till 22 minutes later. Assuming you are looking.Quote:
How sure are you that live tv is live?
See what you have done. Now I have caught what you have. Go see a shrink or do you want me to make an appoiontment when I make one?:)
Kev@ Irony from an American?:lol:
^^Now why do i smell faith wrapped in phailed sarcasm?
And i was merely responding to recursacro who apparently thinks faith is stupid.Something that in one way or another is in all of us.kapish?
If you could tell me what phailed sarcasm means then maybe I could reply to your allegations.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
Before anyone wrote anything more here... Read that quoted statement again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa
It is matter of believing, not knowing.
That makes it worse. The fact that people can kill for a belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie ColemanBefore anyone wrote anything more here... Read that quoted statement again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa
It is matter of believing, not knowing.
bigboab, people can kill for many reasons (grief, madness, money, sports...) but that is all different matter. :)
We are talking here, or at least we're trying, about God, religion, faith itself.
A real God, that has been proven, would instill fear in those about to sin, and would give real hope to those looking for it. Faith would not be needed. Then I would worship him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie ColemanBefore anyone wrote anything more here... Read that quoted statement again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa
It is matter of believing, not knowing.
@Sez for all of those questions:
I believe most of these because they are logical. I don't believe in some supreme being that created everything and was never created because it isn't logical.
Also, because I think that my mother (the lady that I think is my mother) conceived me has nothing to do with using a superior being as a crutch for the weak minded.
I don't go praying for someone else to make something happen for me. Especially when that thing would defeat all odds. (Winning the lottery, for instance)
With Faith, one becomes narrow-minded, and weak. Look at yourself. If someone sincerely told me that the woman I thought was my mother was not mine, I would take them into consideration. I obviously wouldn't believe them at first, but I would accept that it was a possibility. It's logical. I don't have some stubborn faith that locks me into a euphoric state of God-will-save-me.
Why not just wait until something has been proven to live your life by it? Why live your life on something that you're not completely sure is real? Sound like a group of people trying to control others...? :O
I was talking about people killing in the name of their God. Whatever or whoever that God may be. If a God were to appear to me tomorrow I would be a believer. I am just not going to believe in 'Chinese Whispers' because that is all that is available to me at the moment. There have been many people who claimed to be the Son of God. Jesus was just one of many whom a lot of people have latched on to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman
@recursacro,i don't really know what side you are on in this as from what i understand,you are saying that you don't believe in faith i.e you don't have it.However,last I checked both of these theories can't go the whole ten yard if they were to be put through a thorough scrutiny and clearly at some point they both shall come down to faith.Now that's that.
If you are an atheist, why do you grimace when drowning a caught mouse? If you are an atheist,why do you capture a fly or spider and let it go outside?
More generally, if you believe that there is no connection between yourself and other creatures, whether that be an "eye in the sky" entity, or some form of collective unconsciousness, or any other "larger than yourself" phenomenon, why is there any harm whatever in killing a creature?
DOA answers:
- There is some selfish rationale to maintaining an eco-balance. If we all killed creatures willy-nilly, there'd be no creatures left.
Answer: nonsense. This is one mouse; one fly.
- You are a product of society/your physiological emotions. It is conditioned into you to shrink from needless death.
Answer: That is simply passing the buck, pretending you are a victim. You should be able to throw off that pressure and believe in - and practice - your own atheist philosophy.
So do all atheists kill creatures as it is convenient? If not, why not?
I am struck..as I always am...by the simple grammatical use of a capital G in your reference to God....if you don't believe in a God..at least have enough logical sense to know to use a lower-case G. And also...does your mother...errr,excuse me...does the woman you "think" is your mother know that you aren't positive and only "think" she is your "mother".....and also....intelligence is no guarantee against being dead wrong...logically that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RecursacroA real God, that has been proven, would instill fear in those about to sin, and would give real hope to those looking for it. Faith would not be needed. Then I would worship him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman
@Sez for all of those questions:
I believe most of these because they are logical. I don't believe in some supreme being that created everything and was never created because it isn't logical.
Also, because I think that my mother (the lady that I think is my mother) conceived me has nothing to do with using a superior being as a crutch for the weak minded.
I don't go praying for someone else to make something happen for me. Especially when that thing would defeat all odds. (Winning the lottery, for instance)
With Faith, one becomes narrow-minded, and weak. Look at yourself. If someone sincerely told me that the woman I thought was my mother was not mine, I would take them into consideration. I obviously wouldn't believe them at first, but I would accept that it was a possibility. It's logical. I don't have some stubborn faith that locks me into a euphoric state of God-will-save-me.
Why not just wait until something has been proven to live your life by it? Why live your life on something that you're not completely sure is real? Sound like a group of people trying to control others...? :O
@Sez:
I suppose you could consider me an atheist. I practice many Buddhist values and beliefs though. I am against killing because I think all animals are equal. I don't kill insects, and I don't like it when people say that they have pets. One can't own another. Because of this, I'm also vegetarian.
I have one question for you, Sez. How has God helped you?
@MaxOverlord:
God is a name. I capitalize it because it's a proper noun, not because I worship the being the name represents. As for the "not knowing who my mother is", that was sarcasm aimed at Sez because of his questions on belief. You'll understand if you read his post.
I haven't much else to say towards you, except for that I ask for you try to contribute to the thread, and not pick apart my so-called logically grammatical errors.
So, the question for all of you:
How has God helped any of you?
For some, this quiestion may sound naive... But, it is very interesting question. Let's wait for "answers". :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Recursacro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie ColemanFor some, this quiestion may sound naive... But, it is very interesting question. Let's wait for "answers". :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Recursacro
Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.
You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.
No shame in that.
Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.
I think you may have that the wrong way round Kev. Why can't religions leave children alone and let them decide for themselves when they get older? Or is it a case of plant it in the brain and maybe it wont go away?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman
Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.
You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.
No shame in that.
Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.
Why do part of the wedding service say that you have to bring your children up in the faith? That is similar to forcing your kids to follow your own sporting heroes.
I don't think there is any way to resolve this question. Faith does not require proof of the existence. Most non believers demand proof.
p.s. could not sleep. restless legs.:cry::lol:
In other words, that maybe easier to answer:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman
Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.
You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.
No shame in that.
Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.
How has having faith been beneficial to you?
That's pretty easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RecursacroIn other words, that maybe easier to answer:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
How has having faith been beneficial to you?
It begins with "God grant me the serenity..."
and ends with "...for they know not what they do...".
It has literally kept me from killing people, and trust me when I tell you that I mean what I say.
It is what gives me the patience to deal with some of the things that happen here and keep coming back.
I have never given rein to my constant urge to wring the life from something several times a week, or several times a day, some days.
It keeps my heart from exploding.
I don't know what else to say.
[QUOTE=Recursacro;3273729]@Sez:
I suppose you could consider me an atheist. I practice many Buddhist values and beliefs though. I am against killing because I think all animals are equal. I don't kill insects, and I don't like it when people say that they have pets. One can't own another. Because of this, I'm also vegetarian.
I have one question for you, Sez. How has God helped you?
@MaxOverlord:
God is a name. I capitalize it because it's a proper noun, not because I worship the being the name represents. As for the "not knowing who my mother is", that was sarcasm aimed at Sez because of his questions on belief. You'll understand if you read his post.
I haven't much else to say towards you, except for that I ask for you try to contribute to the thread, and not pick apart my so-called logically grammatical errors.
So, the question for all of you:
How has God helped any of you?[/QUOTE
The thing I find interesting is that your sentence structure alone tells me you believe in a higher power. Now some may call it God...others The Way...movie lovers might prefer The Force....I also find it interesting that there are a few Buddhist's or those who practice some of the teachings to be the ones attacking Christianity......but then again..mans primal urge for dominance..which is what you are doing by attacking Christianity..trying to obtain dominance...is a program you can't uninstall...no matter how many days under the Bodhi tree. But hey...I couldn't care less what your validation rituals are..whether they be Communion or tossing tobacco into the air in the presence of an eagle....anyway...I believe you sincere in your interest as to what God has done to help any of us...