Printable View
whats so baffling? why does it matter what i "profess"?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
1. i love a good discussion (as i see many others in this forum do)
2. if i see someone spreading lies (well, maybe a "mistruth"), i'm gonna call them out on it.
And to the other guy, your dictionary had pretty much the same definition as the online version. the items u highlighted had nothing to do with atheism.
ah so you like encyclopedia brittanica? well this is what your sacred books online version has to say about religionQuote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocateSuch a shame that with that wonderful looking set of encyclopedia you failed to read up on load bearing limits for book shelves :PQuote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...97082/religion
human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, spiritual, or divine. Religion is commonly regarded as consisting of a person’s relation to God or to gods or spirits. Worship is probably the most basic element of religion, but moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are generally also constituent elements of the religious life as practiced by believers and worshipers and as commanded by religious sages and scriptures.
They are weighty tomes.:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocateSuch a shame that with that wonderful looking set of encyclopedia you failed to read up on load bearing limits for book shelves :PQuote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
If you "love a good discussion", why do you have a problem with my view of a newly-burgeoning Atheism?Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4lifewhats so baffling? why does it matter what i "profess"?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
1. i love a good discussion (as i see many others in this forum do)
2. if i see someone spreading lies (well, maybe a "mistruth"), i'm gonna call them out on it.
And to the other guy, your dictionary had pretty much the same definition as the online version. the items u highlighted had nothing to do with atheism.
The reason for my bafflement should be apparent to most who are reading this thread.
Please also point out any lies you feel I may be spreading.
no problem with your "opinion" and voicing how u feel but if ur "opinion" is a lie, like i said, i'm going to call u on it. atheism is not a religion. it just describes a person that doesn't believe in god. the definition u posted does not help ur argument, it actually weakens it.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4If you "love a good discussion", why do you have a problem with my view of a newly-burgeoning Atheism?Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4life
The reason for my bafflement should be apparent to most who are reading this thread.
Please also point out any lies you feel I may be spreading.
I didn't post any definitions; I only referred to the new body of atheist activities as religion-like, which in no way fits the definition of a lie, unless you've written a new dictionary.
I guess I just called you on your lie.
Btw, congratulations on your Cowboys' sterling effort against the Vikings.
You complete retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Snee
yes we all understand you know how to use a hyphen. too bad u fail at rebutting anything i just laid out for ya. atheism-does-not-fit-any-of-the-criteria-in-the-definition. see what i did there? :01::naughty::shutup::whistling:rolleyes::ermm::dry:;):cool:
"ribit-ribit, hop-hop"
How clear do I have to make it?
You refered to a dictionary, one which had several alternative definitions of the word religion.
One of these definitions fit Bigboab's idea of what a religion can be, and mine, somewhat. And, most certainly fits explicit atheism. (I don't even know if I agree with it myself, as I think it's too loose, but it's your dictionary, not mine, so I don't really care.) Which, one assumes, is why you don't agree with it.
There's nothing in there that disagrees with what we've been saying. Put more plainly it's a set of beliefs, principles or values upheld with religious fervour or devotion. Which in no way has to involve a deity, but can involve beliefs such as 'God doesn't exist'.Quote:
7a. a cause, principle, system of tenets held with ardor, devotion, conscientiousness and faith, a value held to be of supreme importance,
7b. a quality, condition, custom, or thing inspiring zealous devotion, conscientious maintenance, and cherishing.
You then decided you don't agree with that definition, or the application of that definition to atheism (yes, or the application of that definition to atheism, even though we've pretty much been through all of that before it was quoted, which was why it was quoted), which is just as dumb.
But oh no, there's nothing wrong with the dictionary, there's something wrong with everyone who agrees with the dictionary or everyone who notes that the definition of religion in there can fit atheism.
So you argue with the dictionary, and we're supposed to either defend the definition inside of it or explain all the big words to you, even though it's you who held it up as containing the truth.
And lastly you come up with a set of definitions for atheism on your own, and that we're supposed to care about?
And this is after dismissing everything that doesn't fit in with your view on what a religion is, beforehand, in this thread. As well as totally ignoring the fact that atheism, at least among people who'll call themselves atheist, contains a component of belief, as has been pointed out a few times, just as it's been pointed out that religion doesn't have to involve God (cf some branches of buddhism fex, wh). Or that what you've been describing as atheism (note what you say about proof) fits agnosticism better. Which, according to some can be a mode of thinking sometimes used by 'weak atheists' but isn't atheism in and of itself (atheism is about belief, or lack thereof according to some of them, whereas agnosticism is saying 'we can't know whether there's a God'. Some atheists are agnostic atheists, according to themselves. Others aren't - so-called 'strong' atheists), as I've stated. A bit like you're picking out the definitions you like out of the alternative definitions in the dictionaries. I don't even think you've looked that deeply into what atheism is defined as, or thought much about what the sentence 'they don't believe in God' implies.
So, to sum things up, you're a complete idiot and you seemingly don't know how a dictionary works, either you don't know how alternative definitions work, or you don't know what the words mean.
There's a point, when someone just won't get it, which is when there's also no point in trying to argue with them as if they were a rational human being, you've gone past that mark and appear to be going off into orbit.
EDit:
That was you, saying something stupid, btw.Quote:
religion involves worship of God(s)
And here's a dictionary definition of the word 'shoe'. Do you think a shoe has to be all those things at once, at all? or will you be needing dictionary definitions for all the words inside of the definitions, just so we can agree on that it fits my sneakers?
I could also link to definitions of the words zealous and so forth since you may be having trouble with those, but I don't think you'll get it even if I dissect everything a couple of more rounds. There's no helping you.
Come to think of it, there's also several definitions to the word 'atheist', wherein the degree in which you have to have considered the idea of a deity varies between definitions. Do we have to do a bullet point list for that?
As I've stated before I personally wouldn't use religion in defining Atheism, even if there were a group of them gathering.
This has nothing to do with how the dictionary defines the word and everything with how I would personally apply it.
There are times when I would apply it - "he pushed his views that there is no God with a religious fervor" for example, I just wouldn't call it religion.
Snoopdog can use the "n" word as a term of endearment, but it's a derogatory term if a white person used it no matter if that was the intent or not. I don't know if Eminem has a free pass on that one.
Bigboab raised the how "gay" has changed general meaning or at least been hijacked. One could correctly apply it to a very happy, content conservative Christian and call him an extremely gay fellow. That person would probably take offense or at least be uncomfortable with the description.
Although the word itself could correctly be applied in some cases to Atheistic behavior, religion as a defining word when it comes to Atheism seems more a derogatory term. In my experience it is usually being used deliberately to offend.
Just to be clear, I'm not questioning the definition of the word, Websters dictionary or urban dictionary.
So if this group was to congregate, and one person was designated to address the group extolling the virtues of Atheism, lead them in singing encomiums to Atheism while denigrating "evil, bloody, religion", you wouldn't feel this activity could be described as........yes, I see your difficulty now.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
Or you might refer to him as a Log Cabin Republican...Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
So you aren't derogating a religious person when you refer to him as "religious", but you cannot abide using the term to describe an Atheist, because it is so derogatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
Just to be clear, you understand.
No I'm not, I consider following my faith to be religion. An atheist declares no religion and I'm fine with them doing so. I actually spoke to one of my Atheist acquaintances today and asked what he would put down on a questionnaire that asked what religion he belongs to, his answer was "none". Not Atheist, not Agnostic...simply noneQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4So if this group was to congregate, and one person was designated to address the group extolling the virtues of Atheism, lead them in singing encomiums to Atheism while denigrating "evil, bloody, religion", you wouldn't feel this activity could be described as........yes, I see your difficulty now.
Is that what Atheist do?
Or you might refer to him as a Log Cabin Republican...Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
That would be a completely different meaning
I made no hint as to party or sexuality in fact I was clear that I was using the happy definition of "gay" and not the homosexual meaning.
Ted Haggard and certain notable Republicans aside, Conservative Christians tend to be heterosexual and desire no doubt about it. I could have used Conservative Muslims as my example, but hey where's the fun in that?
So you aren't derogating a religious person when you refer to him as "religious", but you cannot abide using the term to describe an Atheist.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
Just to be clear, you understand.
It's not that I cannot abide when people use religion as a descriptive word for Atheists, what I'm pointing out is my experience of why people do it. Much like the insistence of calling it the Democrat party when it's the Democratic party.
So tell me, if they claim no religion why do you feel compelled to insist on on calling it that?
I do note that in an earlier post I said I like the saying "we are all Atheist, just some believe in one less God", so as an Atheist yourself how do you feel about the description of Atheist?
Just so you understand, I don't agree with the statement, I just like it. Given the context it was made I think it's clever.
@Snee
While talking to my friend I asked about all the various categories you posted, or something along those lines and asked where he fit into it. His response was basically "WTF are you talking about? I just don't believe in God"
When I explained why I was asking, basically the things posted on this thread, he just rolled his eyes, grinned and shook his head.
BTW. the guy doesn't have a computer, so you'd probably like him :P
From a Buddhist standpoint, we enjoy celebrating Buddhamas! However, after years on Dawin's boat, I have come to a conclusion, that he is/was wrong! I also believe I can show you some evidence in the form of screen-shots too, if you're interested and when I have a little more time to upload them to my server!
Well, as the guy who sent this thread off-track, I will reiterate my observation that this fellow and his acolytes appear to be, by virtue of his/their essentially "formalizing by charter", pursuing a path that could easily be described as resembling that of a religion (absent a deity, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocateNo I'm not, I consider following my faith to be religion. An atheist declares no religion and I'm fine with them doing so. I actually spoke to one of my Atheist acquaintances today and asked what he would put down on a questionnaire that asked what religion he belongs to, his answer was "none". Not Atheist, not Agnostic...simply noneQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4So if this group was to congregate, and one person was designated to address the group extolling the virtues of Atheism, lead them in singing encomiums to Atheism while denigrating "evil, bloody, religion", you wouldn't feel this activity could be described as........yes, I see your difficulty now.
Is that what Atheist do?
Or you might refer to him as a Log Cabin Republican...
That would be a completely different meaning
I made no hint as to party or sexuality in fact I was clear that I was using the happy definition of "gay" and not the homosexual meaning.
Ted Haggard and certain notable Republicans aside, Conservative Christians tend to be heterosexual and desire no doubt about it. I could have used Conservative Muslims as my example, but hey where's the fun in that?
So you aren't derogating a religious person when you refer to him as "religious", but you cannot abide using the term to describe an Atheist.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
Just to be clear, you understand.
It's not that I cannot abide when people use religion as a descriptive word for Atheists, what I'm pointing out is my experience of why people do it. Much like the insistence of calling it the Democrat party when it's the Democratic party.
So tell me, if they claim no religion why do you feel compelled to insist on on calling it that?
I do note that in an earlier post I said I like the saying "we are all Atheist, just some believe in one less God", so as an Atheist yourself how do you feel about the description of Atheist?
Just so you understand, I don't agree with the statement, I just like it. Given the context it was made I think it's clever.
We've now managed to fill several pages with utter crap arguing the point, and this fellow ugk4life has tied himself in knots trying to defend what he seems to think is a legitimate point-of-view.
That alone has made the whole thing worthwhile.
By the way, the statement you quote as "clever" is just silly, and utilizing it just because you "like it" causes it's flawed premise to accrue to you and whatever else you say.
I don't think you really want that, do you?
"has tied himself in knots trying to defend what he seems to think is a legitimate point-of-view"
man u r hilarious. u haven't proven anything other then u have an opinion. until u explain how atheism and religion correlate via your highlighted responses from a previous post it looks like u r the who is tied in a knot!
man u r fucked ^.Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4life
You undid yourself, noting in that last paragraph that I "have an opinion".
Unless you can quote me saying this...movement, or whatever you want to call it, is a religion, scarcely anything you've posted (and certainly none of your references to my own posting) in this entire thread can be supported or rationalized, and that is a fact, not just my opinion.
If you can find anyone who agrees with you, I'd love to hear from him/her/it.
u can have an "opinion" that the sky is orange... just make u look like a dumb ass, kinda the way u believe atheism is a religion.
Oh, h4r5hed by a noob; my reputation is in shambles.Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4life
How will I ever live this down. :dabs:
what? your internet reputation? lol
I was assaying the irony of your commentary, not that you would notice.
Let's just say I shot one under your bow.
It might be me, but I always believed that religion was in basic terms: The outward appearance or acts that someone does to show others they have particular beliefs.
This doesn't even mean the person practicing any certain religion has to believe in it.
Simple enough, but probably not simple enough for some people.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
Certain observations just aren't allowed, you see - especially when you are afflicted by one of these...oh, let's call them Crusaders for Idiocy.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Simple enough, but probably not simple enough for some people.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
Certain observations just aren't allowed, you see - especially when you are afflicted by one of these...oh, let's call them Crusaders for Idiocy.
Sometimes I swear thats one of the biggestof them all.Spoiler: Showreligions
I can't wait to see what he has to say about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerryLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Sometimes I swear thats one of the biggestof them all.Spoiler: Showreligions
I just watched this history channel documentary on ancient aliens.Religion aside,I don't think the idea of an intelligent designer is as wild when you got big shot academics telling you aliens built the pyramids.
You ought to watch Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, then.
Might make you ask a few more questions of the academics...Dawson comes to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
suuuuure! says the guy with 14K posts...
This documentary wouldn't happen to be one of von Däniken's would it?Quote:
Originally Posted by sez
:shuriken:
Or you could just take an icepick and pith yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
That would be equally as educational and you'd save about an hour of time.
must go fap , LATERSSSSS
Still waiting on the "lies (well, maybe a "mistruth")" part.Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4life
already pointed them out, go back and read!Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Still waiting on the "lies (well, maybe a "mistruth")" part.Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4life
Humor me and do it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk4lifealready pointed them out, go back and read!Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
humor yourself and read!
I have read, but your complete and utter lack of clarity has thwarted my efforts.
I suspect you may be lying.
"thwarted my efforts"? who in the fuck are you, cobra commander? anyhow, sure i'm lying *rolls eyes*... hows about u actually read what people write instead of yapping, attempting to sound intelligent (beyond a file-sharing forums needs), trying to prove an "opinion"!
You really haven't got a clue, do you.
Ah, well.
See Kev,Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4I can't wait to see what he has to say about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
I couldn't catch a fish in a fish farm :dry:
Just so.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerrySee Kev,Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I couldn't catch a fish in a fish farm :dry:
Some fish insist that you 'buy the farm' first.
Uh-oh.
Those organized Atheists are agitating anew...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584165,00.html
Protesting is like a religion to them. Oops!:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
There has been a lot of adverse publicity about Mother Teresa since sainthood was muted. There was rumours that she actually turned homeless away and that cruelty was rife in some of the orphanages. It does not matter how good you are. Someone will always try and bring you down.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200508220019
I'm sure none of the litany of Saints could withstand today's Christianity-averse media.
Btw-
I hear McDonalds is giving out a free Nobel Peace prize with the purchase of a Big Mac.