I think I just end up getting trolled on dating sites

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Originally Posted by manker

He will be fully aware that you just _don't_ fuck your mate's wife. Hence the dodging.
Draw what conclusions you will, mine are - from admittedly less data than you're able to use - that the guy is a complete prick who has little or no regard for you.

:(

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No, he was actually seeking consolation/permission before anything happened. I told Ivana to tell him to not bother with any of that, because it'd be pretty fucking weird to have that discussion when nothing had happened (like I know if it did or not). I saw him once when we went out bike riding and dropped by to borrow a sports bottle, but that was the only time I've seen him lately. Everything was pretty normal during that visit, I guess he just gets it worked up in his head during a premeditated visit.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

You can be as enlightened as you like Mary, but other people are still following those old rules. And even if you're not allowing them to dictate your life you can still incorporate them into a basic plan for decency: honesty and integrity are never going to go out of fashion. Back when I was doing the whole sex without strings thing I still had a raft of rules to ensure I still had respect for people and wasn't treating them as little more than sexual resources. It's bad for the soul otherwise. Tbh though I've even lost my stomach for that now. The whole thing is born of all the worst traits in human nature.
Also, can't your wife find other people to fuck than your friends FFS?

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I somehow missed yours and manky's comments earlier which is why I'm only replying to them now. Anyways, I agree about honesty and integrity, but they don't seem to be victims in this current situation. Decency is so largely personal, that paying any mind to adhering to it is a waste of time beyond just avoiding to act like a nasty person.

On another note, we keep friends around because we like them, so is it a stretch to observe that there's a tendency for sexual relations between attracting genders among them? Personally, I have already learned that sexual relations with a girl of mutual acquaintance leads to the girl acting like a crazy dishonest nutjob. So that's a particular color of flame I won't personally mess with again. I would say the current situation between Ivana and our friend is the first time she's slept with someone I actually like. For me, it's not been a problem, but we'll see how it plays out on his end and if there's anything I'm supposed to learn from that.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

There would be no point for me to do that, since you just explained to me that she would never fuck me.

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I am utterly shocked that you learned something and verified that you learned it in one post.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

You appear to be extrapolating, I'm not always a tit. Those nice and thoughtful messages rarely get read, let alone receive a reply. I also don't reply to messages that start off with, "hi, how is your morning" from a complete stranger.

I don't understand that first question, so I can't answer it. We sleep in the same bed, we don't use our apartment for those activities. Anyone that considers us a close friend knows all the details of our relationship. If you think I'm at times too candid here, you should see how I am in person.

To give an example, with that Sara girl, I told her about it when she asked why I don't have a significant other. It's just when it comes up, I won't lie about it.

We could come back around to the same argument about being a vital man or whatever you were talking about that one time, but being "decent" doesn't have any automatic appeal. That really depends on the implied connotation, and anything beyond not evil isn't grabbing my interest.

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And what girl is going to want to get involved with a man who can't even invite her back to his place? That's what I'm trying to imply by my comments regarding your sleeping arrangements.
This is what puzzles me: you're capable of being very thoughtful and acting with integrity, but then you act out like a spastic. If you were really ready to meet new people you wouldn't be doing it using a medium so unsuitable and from behind the safety of a computer screen. You're the one trolling by the looks of it. I think you're becoming a product of your environment and the world you've created is like when you take a photocopy of a photocopy for several generations. What you started out with is probably not a lot like what you've ended up with. Also, what works in a loving, stable relationship is probably not going to be easily translated to the world at large without a whole lot of mess. Why on Earth would you socialise with people you're having an open marriage with? Again, this is what I was saying about rules and boundaries, and being 'decent'. For instance, I never used to allow two people I was currently sleeping with to be in the same room together, because I used to choose people from different social groups. I didn't want to make THEM feel uncomfortable. Even though they said it was fine, I erred on the side of caution. I wouldn't share partners with a friend, even ex ones. I went with a guy's friend once and would never make that mistake again. The moment you divorce your brain from your groin is the moment it all goes tits-up.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I somehow missed yours and manky's comments earlier which is why I'm only replying to them now. Anyways, I agree about honesty and integrity, but they don't seem to be victims in this current situation. Decency is so largely personal, that paying any mind to adhering to it is a waste of time beyond just avoiding to act like a nasty person.

On another note, we keep friends around because we like them, so is it a stretch to observe that there's a tendency for sexual relations between attracting genders among them? Personally, I have already learned that sexual relations with a girl of mutual acquaintance leads to the girl acting like a crazy dishonest nutjob. So that's a particular color of flame I won't personally mess with again. I would say the current situation between Ivana and our friend is the first time she's slept with someone I actually like. For me, it's not been a problem, but we'll see how it plays out on his end and if there's anything I'm supposed to learn from that.

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See above.

Also, perhaps try engaging your brains before you do things instead of after and you might get better results.

And I don't think you're too candid on here. You seem to take too much pride in it though, a bit like when a person says 'oh I always speak my mind' or 'I don't suffer fools gladly'. Those people are usually the very ones who ought to be a little more responsible because they generally don't care who they upset by their 'honesty', and/or believe their honesty trumps all other considerations.

You missed the read earlier squeams, but I don't actually meet most women online. I meet them through friends and at school or social functions related to the people at my school. But do go on about how to successfully utilize a dating site.

And I'm relatively candid on here compared to the atmosphere. I tried for awhile to remain completely anonymous and private, but that goes against my inherent nature. It still doesn't compare to how I am in person, and I do ascribe to honesty trumping all things. My discretion policy involves not saying anything at all. If my mouth is to be running, it's going to express an honest thought. You may find that selfish and insensitive, but I'm really not interested in participating in all the little games everyone plays with information and distortion. Actually, I should amend that and say that I can enjoy the fun of it in the short term, I can be a very convincing fibber, but I always immediately disclose with "no, I'm just kidding" once I've got them convinced. It's probably very annoying, but I'm working toward my final point.

You're presenting ways to sell me off more effectively as if I'm a catch to be had. I pose that I'm not, and am a much more difficult person to deal with then the common lot, emotionally and intellectually. Plus, there's always the chance that I might physically rough a girl up (which I imagine can also be very annoying). I'm not a striker, just a grappler. On top of all that, I'm slightly overweight and average looking. Like, what are you really trying to accomplish here? Despite all of that, I do rather fine on my own, and most of my complaints are the type of people I meet. So, perhaps point out what you are are trying to get out of this? Molding a jaded egotistical little man into a proud, white, vital man of society? Have you been trying to do that all along?

Slightly :eyebrows:


I thought you were getting a bit emo until I read that part and realised that you were actually putting a gloss on things.

I'm schizophrenic

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I'm schizophrenic

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No, not schizophrenic, but I hope you're taking your Lithium. :blink:

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Originally Posted by Artemis

No, not schizophrenic, but I hope you're taking your Lithium. :blink:

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I'm not schizophrenic, who ever said I was?

I'll read your Maryspaz later, but I found this for you to be getting along with on FB this morning :happy:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/s...y-201104193734

I really really hate dating websites.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

I'll read your Maryspaz later

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It took me a good 5 tries to not read that as marzipan. I would have caught on sooner, but I was distracted with the thought of, "how did you know it was sweet without reading it?"

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

You missed the read earlier squeams, but I don't actually meet most women online. I meet them through friends and at school or social functions related to the people at my school. But do go on about how to successfully utilize a dating site.

And I'm relatively candid on here compared to the atmosphere. I tried for awhile to remain completely anonymous and private, but that goes against my inherent nature. It still doesn't compare to how I am in person, and I do ascribe to honesty trumping all things. My discretion policy involves not saying anything at all. If my mouth is to be running, it's going to express an honest thought. You may find that selfish and insensitive, but I'm really not interested in participating in all the little games everyone plays with information and distortion. Actually, I should amend that and say that I can enjoy the fun of it in the short term, I can be a very convincing fibber, but I always immediately disclose with "no, I'm just kidding" once I've got them convinced. It's probably very annoying, but I'm working toward my final point.

You're presenting ways to sell me off more effectively as if I'm a catch to be had. I pose that I'm not, and am a much more difficult person to deal with then the common lot, emotionally and intellectually. Plus, there's always the chance that I might physically rough a girl up (which I imagine can also be very annoying). I'm not a striker, just a grappler. On top of all that, I'm slightly overweight and average looking. Like, what are you really trying to accomplish here? Despite all of that, I do rather fine on my own, and most of my complaints are the type of people I meet. So, perhaps point out what you are are trying to get out of this? Molding a jaded egotistical little man into a proud, white, vital man of society? Have you been trying to do that all along?

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I think the worst dishonesty anyone can exhibit is lying to themselves. You can be as honest and brash as you like with other people but if you can't do so with yourself that's pretty pathetic. It seems to me this whole way of life is built on one big falsehood: that you can have your cake and eat it. How many times must people experiment with the darker reaches of their psyches (and other people's), before they learn not to trifle with them? I know what you've all been doing: just be practical, be rational, be logical, don't be like all the other drones who have nothing but their instincts to fall back on. But don't you feel that disassociation of feeling and deed creates something of a vacuum of.....anything? Any feelings at all? It just creates an emotional landscape of beige where people can act out in the most heartless ways without even realising it.
I don't want to make you into a strong, vital white man. I don't think you're a great catch either. You seem a bit fucked up. I guess what I'm asking you to do is not impose your fucked-up quite so much on the world around you and maybe try to be a bit more thoughtful and less silly. I'd like you to meet a woman you could have an easy, loving relationship with, and I don't think you will get that starting from such inauspicious beginnings. Even if you meet a nice lady, how good will things turn out against this very unconventional back drop? I also think you need to stop being a coward. The option is not just 'be with someone I don't care for until I find someone I do'. Why don't you try being on your own for a bit? If you wait for life to happen to save you from having to make a decision it will, and it will blow up in your face. Controlled demolition is better.

Will you marry me Squeamous? :wub:

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Originally Posted by Artemis

Will you marry me Squeamous? :wub:

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Only if you sign a pre-nup relinquishing any rights to my balustrade :wub:

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

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Originally Posted by Artemis

Will you marry me Squeamous? :wub:

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Only if you sign a pre-nup relinquishing any rights to my balustrade :wub:

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Of course, it was more out of admiration at your brutal honesty, a trait I have always admired in others, it leaves no confusion, you understand exactly where you stand, often dumbstruck by the brutal truth, but in no confusion at all at what the other person is thinking.
Your balustrade is safe, and the commute to tell you that I no longer want to talk to you would be prohibitive, enough to give even a hardened stalker even with a great bonus, pause (:dave:).

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Originally Posted by Artemis

Of course, it was more out of admiration at your brutal honesty, a trait I have always admired in others, it leaves no confusion, you understand exactly where you stand, often dumbstruck by the brutal truth, but in no confusion at all at what the other person is thinking.
Your balustrade is safe, and the commute to tell you that I no longer want to talk to you would be prohibitive, enough to give even a hardened stalker even with a great bonus, pause (:dave:).

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:smilie4: ^
Oh no. Now I'm starting to sound like Mary (moment of crashing self-awareness ensues :O ). It's only when honesty and good communication aren't there that you realise how important it is. I've had something of en epiphany in that regard of late.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

I think the worst dishonesty anyone can exhibit is lying to themselves. You can be as honest and brash as you like with other people but if you can't do so with yourself that's pretty pathetic. It seems to me this whole way of life is built on one big falsehood: that you can have your cake and eat it. How many times must people experiment with the darker reaches of their psyches (and other people's), before they learn not to trifle with them? I know what you've all been doing: just be practical, be rational, be logical, don't be like all the other drones who have nothing but their instincts to fall back on. But don't you feel that disassociation of feeling and deed creates something of a vacuum of.....anything? Any feelings at all? It just creates an emotional landscape of beige where people can act out in the most heartless ways without even realising it.
I don't want to make you into a strong, vital white man. I don't think you're a great catch either. You seem a bit fucked up. I guess what I'm asking you to do is not impose your fucked-up quite so much on the world around you and maybe try to be a bit more thoughtful and less silly. I'd like you to meet a woman you could have an easy, loving relationship with, and I don't think you will get that starting from such inauspicious beginnings. Even if you meet a nice lady, how good will things turn out against this very unconventional back drop? I also think you need to stop being a coward. The option is not just 'be with someone I don't care for until I find someone I do'. Why don't you try being on your own for a bit? If you wait for life to happen to save you from having to make a decision it will, and it will blow up in your face. Controlled demolition is better.

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I don't see where you tried to demonstrate that I was lying to myself, did you just go off on a tangent? Where is my cake? Your entire argument hinges on this cake, which is a prerequisite of consumption. You would have me eating crow, or a shoe, neither being that tasty.

Additionally, you seem to want to curb experimentation with life and the psyche, and claim that doing otherwise is cowardice? You've got things muddled and it might be because you seem to be heavily invested in the concepts on display. Not that I'm rejecting it outright, but there's too many mixed messages that probably stem from you forgetting some of the details. You can label me as fucked up, it's a label I don't really mind, but my approach has been driven by logical retaliation to each of the situations I've been dealt.

I am already alone, but this isn't actually a cry for help. There seems to be a drive to break down the theory of my personal lifestyle, and I'm happy to oblige, but the original point of the thread was to showcase some of the recent silliness I've come across. To read into it any further than that is a stretch of your own imagination. I'm not discouraging it, though, I just want to make sure that's clarified so that you can enjoy a little more breathing room. Continue your analysis if you will.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

Oh no. Now I'm starting to sound like Mary

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Now you're just flattering yourself.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

I think the worst dishonesty anyone can exhibit is lying to themselves. You can be as honest and brash as you like with other people but if you can't do so with yourself that's pretty pathetic. It seems to me this whole way of life is built on one big falsehood: that you can have your cake and eat it. How many times must people experiment with the darker reaches of their psyches (and other people's), before they learn not to trifle with them? I know what you've all been doing: just be practical, be rational, be logical, don't be like all the other drones who have nothing but their instincts to fall back on. But don't you feel that disassociation of feeling and deed creates something of a vacuum of.....anything? Any feelings at all? It just creates an emotional landscape of beige where people can act out in the most heartless ways without even realising it.
I don't want to make you into a strong, vital white man. I don't think you're a great catch either. You seem a bit fucked up. I guess what I'm asking you to do is not impose your fucked-up quite so much on the world around you and maybe try to be a bit more thoughtful and less silly. I'd like you to meet a woman you could have an easy, loving relationship with, and I don't think you will get that starting from such inauspicious beginnings. Even if you meet a nice lady, how good will things turn out against this very unconventional back drop? I also think you need to stop being a coward. The option is not just 'be with someone I don't care for until I find someone I do'. Why don't you try being on your own for a bit? If you wait for life to happen to save you from having to make a decision it will, and it will blow up in your face. Controlled demolition is better.

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I don't see where you tried to demonstrate that I was lying to myself, did you just go off on a tangent? Where is my cake? Your entire argument hinges on this cake, which is a prerequisite of consumption. You would have me eating crow, or a shoe, neither being that tasty.

Additionally, you seem to want to curb experimentation with life and the psyche, and claim that doing otherwise is cowardice? You've got things muddled and it might be because you seem to be heavily invested in the concepts on display. Not that I'm rejecting it outright, but there's too many mixed messages that probably stem from you forgetting some of the details. You can label me as fucked up, it's a label I don't really mind, but my approach has been driven by logical retaliation to each of the situations I've been dealt.

I am already alone, but this isn't actually a cry for help. There seems to be a drive to break down the theory of my personal lifestyle, and I'm happy to oblige, but the original point of the thread was to showcase some of the recent silliness I've come across. To read into it any further than that is a stretch of your own imagination. I'm not discouraging it, though, I just want to make sure that's clarified so that you can enjoy a little more breathing room. Continue your analysis if you will.

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In highlighting the recent silliness you have come across you have also managed to highlight some of your own personal silliness, which is the point Squeamous is trying to make. The fact that you do not see it as silly, is down to your own self involvement, but the quintessential nub of what others are trying to say to you is how can you move on if you are still living in the past?
If it is simply the convenience of having the relationship there, even though it has become loveless, like not getting rid of the old pair of slippers even though one of the toes peeps out because you've had them for so long, then from my own point of view and probably others out there, the term emotional cowardice fits. By this I mean that if the relationship has degenerated to the point where it is truly loveless and where you find amusement in friends discomfiture at sneaking around while trying to fuck her, then why on earth are you still in the relationship/marriage/living arrangement/fucked up cohabitation?
There can be no 'new' relationship with the mouldering corpse of the old one still in the air unless you are almost completely devoid of emotion, which would preclude any real intimacy anyway. So this is where the term emotional cowardice is being applied, simply because Squeamous (and myself ) believe based on what you have posted (with the obvious caveat that you may yet again simply be trolling), that you need to sever the gangrenous limb that is your marriage if you are to move forward and have a healthy and happy beginning to another relationship, and that you are being an emotional coward in not doing so, but in clinging to the tattered remains.

Plus won for Mary ditching the wife and starting again in an apartment that isn't predominantly beige.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

In highlighting the recent silliness you have come across you have also managed to highlight some of your own personal silliness, which is the point Squeamous is trying to make. The fact that you do not see it as silly, is down to your own self involvement, but the quintessential nub of what others are trying to say to you is how can you move on if you are still living in the past?
If it is simply the convenience of having the relationship there, even though it has become loveless, like not getting rid of the old pair of slippers even though one of the toes peeps out because you've had them for so long, then from my own point of view and probably others out there, the term emotional cowardice fits. By this I mean that if the relationship has degenerated to the point where it is truly loveless and where you find amusement in friends discomfiture at sneaking around while trying to fuck her, then why on earth are you still in the relationship/marriage/living arrangement/fucked up cohabitation?
There can be no 'new' relationship with the mouldering corpse of the old one still in the air unless you are almost completely devoid of emotion, which would preclude any real intimacy anyway. So this is where the term emotional cowardice is being applied, simply because Squeamous (and myself ) believe based on what you have posted (with the obvious caveat that you may yet again simply be trolling), that you need to sever the gangrenous limb that is your marriage if you are to move forward and have a healthy and happy beginning to another relationship, and that you are being an emotional coward in not doing so, but in clinging to the tattered remains.

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Though I have been testing waters, I'm quite sure I don't want a relationship right now. That should clear up that confusion. It doesn't carry the air of desirability at the moment. If I was trying to cultivate one, a lot of what everyone is saying would be more on target.

Also, I find people's attachment to societal sensibility and their monogamous views amusing. That doesn't mean I revel in my friends' discomfort. Theoretically, yes, but not as it pertains to actual events that have taken place.

So basically you want a meal ticket more than you want a new relationship.

That's fair enough; a man's gotta eat and there are many free Japanese cartoons on the internets.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

.....I find people's attachment to societal sensibility and their monogamous views amusing. That doesn't mean I revel in my friends' discomfort. Theoretically, yes, but not as it pertains to actual events that have taken place.

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Surely it would have been easier if you had simply been born another primate, a mandrill baboon maybe? Then you could mate with others as you pleased based on more simplistic moral directives, i.e. the biggest meanest fucker wins.
We have societal sensibility because we live in a society, that you choose to live outside those mores to a certain extent and are amused by them shows a deep seated distrust of others and an inability to invest yourself emotionally in another person or trust them. It is one of the coping mechanisms of children from emotionally abusive backgrounds, you simply divorced yourself from others so that they could no longer hurt you.
Although safe, this cold detachment is no way to go through life, at least no way to go through life and truly experience it, one of the purposes of the monogomy that you disdain is to form a family unit. If you get this right, I mean really get it right then your life becomes so much more enriched by the lives around you.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

Surely it would have been easier if you had simply been born another primate, a mandrill baboon maybe? Then you could mate with others as you pleased based on more simplistic moral directives, i.e. the biggest meanest fucker wins.

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This is where I disagree, but I'll also respond to your other points. If you examine human behavior from a purely observational standpoint, they are not monogamous. Those who can "mate" more frequently, mate more frequently. There are many reasons why we've established monogamous systems, but they derive more from societal order than they do human nature. I don't think monogamy is the thing to separate us from other primates, or mammals, or kingdom animalia for that matter. We do not adhere to it sufficiently to make that claim.

A family unit is one thing, sex for pleasure is another. Hopefully those two remain exclusive of each other (besides the spouse of course). I don't see men and women raising multiple families, that should be fairly obvious but I'm stating it anyway.

For reasons beyond my wife, I place very little trust into people. I was always like that. My wife was the first person I came to truly trust, and the backlash from that isn't aiding the progression. At this point, I don't really see that as a problem. There are a few other people I still trust immensely, and I see no need nor benefit to spread that around in naive fashion. You could fairly call it a coping mechanism, but I'm a happy individual these days. My larger concerns at the moment are sleep apnea that I've most likely have had since childhood. My irregular sleep patterns have shifted towards greater irregularity and it's causing a lot of problems for me right now. I'm scheduled for consultation on the 17th, it's been booked for months.

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Originally Posted by manker

So basically you want a meal ticket more than you want a new relationship.

That's fair enough; a man's gotta eat and there are many free Japanese cartoons on the internets.

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That's probably the most apt description. What is mostly going on right now is that I have a roommate with whom I sometimes share the bed. It's not like I sleep anywhere else, we just don't usally sleep at the same time. It's a very convenient setup. My friend offered me a similar setup consistently throughout the years when I was trying to decide if I was going to leave, but I'm fine where I'm at right now, and I honestly don't want to live with a guy anyway. Things might change once I finish this school thing (soon) and plan to move out of the country. Ivana is thinking of following, but we haven't fully assessed our opportunities for that juncture.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manker

So basically you want a meal ticket more than you want a new relationship.

That's fair enough; a man's gotta eat and there are many free Japanese cartoons on the internets.

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That's probably the most apt description. What is mostly going on right now is that I have a roommate with whom I sometimes share the bed. It's not like I sleep anywhere else, we just don't usally sleep at the same time. It's a very convenient setup. My friend offered me a similar setup consistently throughout the years when I was trying to decide if I was going to leave, but I'm fine where I'm at right now, and I honestly don't want to live with a guy anyway. Things might change once I finish this school thing (soon) and plan to move out of the country. Ivana is thinking of following, but we haven't fully assessed our opportunities for that juncture.

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Well, good. I was being flippant but that is my take on the situation. Each time I tried to be serious, in PM or on here, I seem to presume too much.

Anyway, despite your emo assertions that you're not very likeable and not a good catch and how the world hates you, it seems to me that people here have taken you and your situation to heart to the point of exasperation. Which wouldn't have happened if you weren't a nice guy.
Hope things work out - and soon.

Sincerely.
-Stephen Greene, Chartered accountant and friend the socially unwieldy.

Then, why haven't they gone on a diatribe about how I'm not valuing their opinion because of selfish and childish coping mechanisms that cause me to put up a wall between myself and everyone else? Oh wait, is that what this is all about? I thought it might have been getting too heavy in here, but I didn't do anything to stop it because of my inconsideration for everyone's feelings.

But I have been dropping hints that things are actually quite OK on my end, the issues I've had were descriptions of what I went through in the past, and I've worked my way through that. I am in need of nothing else at the moment. With change comes about some more change, and I'm in no rush to advance that schedule.

second paragraph seems entirely sensible to me but i wut'd on the first.

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Originally Posted by manker

second paragraph seems entirely sensible to me but i wut'd on the first.

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I was insinuating that everyone is actually upset about me not letting them in, sort of a reverse egocentrism. It was foul on my part, but I'm not taking it back.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by manker

second paragraph seems entirely sensible to me but i wut'd on the first.

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I was insinuating that everyone is actually upset about me not letting them in, sort of a reverse egocentrism. It was foul on my part, but I'm not taking it back.

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Coming up to twenty past six, mate.

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Originally Posted by manker

Coming up to twenty past six, mate.

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Later.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by manker

Coming up to twenty past six, mate.

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Later.

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Ttfn, sparkly-candy dragon.

Many thanks, mary, for the pm. I won't respond to it directly, as it was grouped and there's nothing I'd disclose here that you haven't already publicly, to some exultance.

I'm begrudgingly, obliquely ever aware that my opinion counts for fuck all in the scheme of things. What I do care about is the general level of intelligence tolerated by this lounge, however. And I cannot say that mary's posts have detracted from that. More so the opposite. His standard of posts keeps our collective talons pared. Look at the place two years ago, ffs. Closed up, frigid and static. And that was just Darthy. Mary has thickened the soup with his spaghetti hoops to the max. It's a pity that he'll soon commit suicide.

I might post something about my opinions regarding mary's personal endeavours, but I doubt he'd care as to my advice. Which he'll get anyway...

Find a woman and have kids in a loving relationship. She doesn't even have to be sane. Just honest. You'll be a fantastic father cos you've got a brain and you've learned the hard way exactly what not to do. That is all.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by manker

second paragraph seems entirely sensible to me but i wut'd on the first.

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I was insinuating that everyone is actually upset about me not letting them in, sort of a reverse egocentrism. It was foul on my part, but I'm not taking it back.

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I for one am not suffering from that reverse egocentrism. If you read my last post then you not letting people in is par for the course, I would expect no less.
The point of my and other people's posts really is one of concern over your current situation. You may be currently 'happy' or can accept the situation, but others here are staring aghast at the train wreck that is your life, and out of concern for someone they like trying to kickstart the thinking of someone who doesn't listen to others easily.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

The point of my and other people's posts really is one of concern over your current situation. You may be currently 'happy' or can accept the situation, but others here are staring aghast at the train wreck that is your life, and out of concern for someone they like trying to kickstart the thinking of someone who doesn't listen to others easily.

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This.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I don't see where you tried to demonstrate that I was lying to myself, did you just go off on a tangent? Where is my cake? Your entire argument hinges on this cake, which is a prerequisite of consumption. You would have me eating crow, or a shoe, neither being that tasty.

Additionally, you seem to want to curb experimentation with life and the psyche, and claim that doing otherwise is cowardice? You've got things muddled and it might be because you seem to be heavily invested in the concepts on display. Not that I'm rejecting it outright, but there's too many mixed messages that probably stem from you forgetting some of the details. You can label me as fucked up, it's a label I don't really mind, but my approach has been driven by logical retaliation to each of the situations I've been dealt.

I am already alone, but this isn't actually a cry for help. There seems to be a drive to break down the theory of my personal lifestyle, and I'm happy to oblige, but the original point of the thread was to showcase some of the recent silliness I've come across. To read into it any further than that is a stretch of your own imagination. I'm not discouraging it, though, I just want to make sure that's clarified so that you can enjoy a little more breathing room. Continue your analysis if you will.

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Actually I'm all for experimentation with the psyche, but I'm not for treating it with cavalier disdain. The heart and mind can and should be broken just like everything else in life, and mended too with time. But what I find distasteful is someone who possesses the ability but not the will to learn from their mistakes. You're like a broken record. Your sermonising on the benefits of polygamy over monogamy are almost religious in fervour. I take each situation as it comes and believe that sometimes monogamy is appropriate and sometimes it isn't, and that will change with different people and time and any other number of factors. There is no one-size-fits-all lifestyle. It just hasn't worked for you in this guise, not that I'd expect you to admit that. In fact, you're the last person I would have expected it to work for, since you are very likely as Artemis has said, to suffer from trust issues. I think the whole polyamory thing is an attempt by you to test your limits rather than born out of desire for multiple sexual partners.

And as for that nonsense, no we're not all suited to polyamory. I'm pretty open minded but I know for a fact that when I love someone and we have a healthy sex life it's far too good for me to want to go elsewhere. Maybe, I figure, if I'm with someone for like, 20 years and we want to experiment on our birthdays or something that would be something I'd consider. I'd never want the life you have though, and that's not because I'm judging you it's because it would make me miserable.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

That's probably the most apt description. What is mostly going on right now is that I have a roommate with whom I sometimes share the bed. It's not like I sleep anywhere else, we just don't usally sleep at the same time. It's a very convenient setup. My friend offered me a similar setup consistently throughout the years when I was trying to decide if I was going to leave, but I'm fine where I'm at right now, and I honestly don't want to live with a guy anyway. Things might change once I finish this school thing (soon) and plan to move out of the country. Ivana is thinking of following, but we haven't fully assessed our opportunities for that juncture.

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I was insinuating that everyone is actually upset about me not letting them in, sort of a reverse egocentrism. It was foul on my part, but I'm not taking it back.

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Eh? You've let us in with all the enthusiasm of a Bangkok ladyboy!

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Originally Posted by chalice

Find a woman and have kids in a loving relationship. She doesn't even have to be sane. Just honest. You'll be a fantastic father cos you've got a brain and you've learned the hard way exactly what not to do. That is all.

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When I find myself with a woman I can feel reasonably certain with whom I'll be spending the next decade or so, I plan to adopt a child. I also thought I could make an awesome detached but caring father.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I was insinuating that everyone is actually upset about me not letting them in, sort of a reverse egocentrism. It was foul on my part, but I'm not taking it back.

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I for one am not suffering from that reverse egocentrism. If you read my last post then you not letting people in is par for the course, I would expect no less.
The point of my and other people's posts really is one of concern over your current situation. You may be currently 'happy' or can accept the situation, but others here are staring aghast at the train wreck that is your life, and out of concern for someone they like trying to kickstart the thinking of someone who doesn't listen to others easily.

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Well, at least I'm not leading a life to anyone's envy. If I could share one honest thought, you guys could use a little more patience. If When I make a change, I'll be sure to narrate the journey, that is if I'm not already dead.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

Actually I'm all for experimentation with the psyche, but I'm not for treating it with cavalier disdain. The heart and mind can and should be broken just like everything else in life, and mended too with time. But what I find distasteful is someone who possesses the ability but not the will to learn from their mistakes. You're like a broken record. Your sermonising on the benefits of polygamy over monogamy are almost religious in fervour. I take each situation as it comes and believe that sometimes monogamy is appropriate and sometimes it isn't, and that will change with different people and time and any other number of factors. There is no one-size-fits-all lifestyle. It just hasn't worked for you in this guise, not that I'd expect you to admit that. In fact, you're the last person I would have expected it to work for, since you are very likely as Artemis has said, to suffer from trust issues. I think the whole polyamory thing is an attempt by you to test your limits rather than born out of desire for multiple sexual partners.

And as for that nonsense, no we're not all suited to polyamory. I'm pretty open minded but I know for a fact that when I love someone and we have a healthy sex life it's far too good for me to want to go elsewhere. Maybe, I figure, if I'm with someone for like, 20 years and we want to experiment on our birthdays or something that would be something I'd consider. I'd never want the life you have though, and that's not because I'm judging you it's because it would make me miserable.

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I'll wrap up my thoughts to each point into one, hopefully coherent, focused response. What I have learned about polyamorous behavior is this. The actions in our life will trend us toward that behavior sooner or later, it's my realistic approach to it. The second thing I have learned is that honesty about this is the necessary complement to keeping a healthy relationship. It works quite well when there's honesty. I don't know how many partners you've envisioned, but I'm guessing the actual count doesn't stand up to the figure that roughly serves as the placeholder in your head, and it changes whether you decide to require coitus or not. In that respect, it's not about actively going about testing limits, it's about how to decide to handle opportunities when they arrive pending your decision. It was much more passive than that. My fucking about on dating sites may give a misleading image, as I've used it primarily for social correspondence than anything else, and to test the waters of active pursuit. I am not aggressive in physical encounters, and I've probably let 80 % of my opportunities slip away by remaining passive. Any dating activity I've participated in had communications off site, and it was gradual. This is the most active I've ever been and it's still not very active.

OK, I have to break to a 2nd paragraph for elaboration and readability. I think everyone is suited quite well for polyamory, it's open polyamory that we struggle with. I just personally wouldn't have it any other way. I feel pity for those who continue to practice it in secret, mostly for their official partners. That being said, I wouldn't practice it if the person I was with did not desire to have that kind of relationship. But since I am quite full disclosure, I'm unlikely to have a partner who wants to keep all things 100 % exclusive. This design isn't even necessarily for my own benefit, as I've said, I'm pretty asexual, and my dating mostly goes as far as flirty socialization and maybe a modicum of physicality (which I don't hide). But I don't wish for my partner to coexist with guilt, disappointment and regret for what they feel and desire, especially since they can rarely count on me for the sex at the drop of a dime. I cannot, however, excuse the desire of secrecy in all of it; and that, I would say, is my stubborn religious fervor. Why would I trust someone who maintains the position of stealthy operandi?

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

:rolleyes:

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Her reasons for wanting to do that are something only she can defend. It's not like we don't talk, but I don't feel I'm a suitable person to defend her actions/plans/opinions.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

Eh? You've let us in with all the enthusiasm of a Bangkok ladyboy!

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I was being quite light with the comment. How do you know how enthusiastic a Thai ladyboy is anyhow? If I wanted to try being gay once in my life, it would be with a Thai ladyboy, as long as she still has a cute face and a sexy body, it's a safe option. I'm making the distinction, as ladyboys can be either men who have feminized themselves or women born with dicks. And just like tits, I prefer them without cosmetic operation.

Did I say your personal life was a train wreck? I'm sorry I misspoke, I meant Hiroshima after August 6 1945. :blink: