So SciMan, how long does it take you to produce this system and what kind of guarantee do you provide?
Are there piccies yet?
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So SciMan, how long does it take you to produce this system and what kind of guarantee do you provide?
Are there piccies yet?
well it took me about 2 days to produce, of course that was the first one... i bet someone could get done fairly quick... It requires these abilities to make,
Metal Working: (you probably fit the bill and then some clocker)
Metals:
Copper
Steel (you could supstitute this for something else, but keep in mind that this is the metal that will reinforce a pipe that holds pressures in the ballpark of 300 psi)
Metal working tools suggested (all to get the desired effect if you can do it, then you can do it...)
Metal drill Press is the minamum, it will work, but this is slow... i used this for my first try... I later used a computer driected lathe (hehehe Wichita State Universities lathe... the airplane building in the local area prompts great manufactering classes...)
You need to be able to take copper and make a heatsink out of it... it will have an in and out... designs available... (although i bet clocker might be able to enhance)
The steel will be used to house a pipe that holds the cold element, it will need to have the durability to hold the pipe and reinforce it... i used a solid block of steel, and I etched out via a drill press the place for the pipe to fit...
The pipe is store bought steel, no biggie welding is required to attech the pipe together vie elbow joints...
you will then need some basic circut board stuff, if you don't know what then you don't have the skills to do it... i will make circuts i think, and offer them for sale...
other than that you hooke everything together via bolts... etc not too complicated if you have the stuff to do it..
One last thing, to fill it with Liquad nitrogen, you need a chemist to buy it, and a chemist to supervise filling it up to pressure... (100 or more psi at least, the chemist will know, but you have to get it to turn into a liqaud and keep it as one... which requires lots of PSI)
If a chemist is nowwhere to be found, then other things like R139a could be used... things like that when highy compressed can also do it, but thery have to be replenished... (still lasts a long time though...
I will give a 100% 2 million hour/3 year warrenty, although i bet that it will last longer than you the consumer will... (seriosly looks that way on paper...)Quote:
what kind of guarantee do you provide?
well depends on supply... in my location it wi cost around 200 bucks to make... but it may be cheaper based on mass purchase etc.. so the price to allow for me to make it worth it will be around 250-300... that will also allow me to have some buffer incase of price changes in supplys...Quote:
Are there piccies yet?
As for you clocker i would say that you just need to commit, and then i would say sure... get some things signed to make you part of ALCO industries and we will start making things... :P
ALCO Industries?
I sorta like Clocker, Ltd.
:lol:Quote:
ALCO Industries?
I sorta like Clocker, Ltd.
hehehe,Alco Industries is an established company... i figured it would be ok.. but i could partner Alco with Clocker, ltd... :rolleyes:
hehehehehehehe :P
but yes quite frankly you can sell them as whatevr company you like, but the place they originate from is ALCO... :D
What about the liquid nitrogen. You say that the heat is transfered away from X solution, because of the LN. But doesnt the liquid nitrogen dissipiate as a result? Its not like it can continuly do this forever, because you have to transfer the energy (heat) to another source, which would entail adding more Liquid Nitrogen wouldnt it?
hmm, no, well if the tubing is not properly welded, then yes it could leak out, but you would know about it... the heat is dissipated via the fact that the hotter it gets the higher the pressure gets in the tubes... it doesn't dissipate, it is not a chemical.. The way Liquid Nitrogen, Liquid Oxygen etc are made is by taking their gas form and compressing them until the molecules have nowhere to move, and they turn liquid... if enough pressure is applied then you could even turn Oxygen into a solid... however that is how it works, it doesn't "go bad" when it is heated up it rather just tries to expand... so the container has to be very strong, and their is of course a pressure relive valve... just in case you are pressuring the system too much... now, a cheaper alternative is to use R138a or similar, it will need to be replaced every few years... but that could be done by anyone even slightly hardware savvy... or by any mechanic (well I wound't take the computer... just the container ) the ONLY flaw in my design is that in the event of a overloaded system... (That would take some crazy stuff) the pressure could become too great... that is why for safely purposes it will have a relief valve...
Sp
water is more than sufficient to remove and transport heat off of a suited up computer.
only in extreme modding do u need liquid nitrogen
ur ideas are good but not practical to typical oc'ers.
right what about condessation problems? those liquid nitrogen in those tubes of urs is a sure way to condense water around the tubings. if not insulated properly water would invade critical system conponents and permenantly damage ur system.
destroying a thousand dollars system with some flawed cooling system is not really worth it imho :lol:
the cold element, and it assembly is inside a sealled unit... no condensation, that was a problem i started thinking about before it even hit paper all of it is insulated... heatsinks, and allQuote:
right what about condessation problems? those liquid nitrogen in those tubes of urs is a sure way to condense water around the tubings. if not insulated properly water would invade critical system conponents and permenantly damage ur system.
umm it has been stated numerous times that I am making a heatpipe cooler, the LN is the cold element that helps complete that cycle, it cools the water down, the cold element never comes into contact with anything other than water vapor... the water is indeed what moves the heat...Quote:
water is more than sufficient to remove and transport heat off of a suited up computer.
Anyone have any other Qs???
ok so ur gonna have LN in a sealed system. so if the LN is heated up it goes to gas right? is ur system gonna withstand the pressure?
and how r u gonna convert gas nitrogen back to liquid state?
sorry if i didn't read the details but i get ur gist of the design.
my ideas are very practical i think... it would allow for completly silent cooling, extreme performance... and it would work even when your comp turned off... your stuff would stay cold all the time..Quote:
ur ideas are good but not practical to typical oc'ers.
well firstly the LN will try to go Gasous yes... the system will be at extreme pressures, it will be a stainless steel pipe that is about 1/2 inch diameter, and then is surrounded with a steel block that will have the pipe embedded within... the pipe will hold the pressure, and pass what pressure it can't handle over to the steel block...Quote:
ok so ur gonna have LN in a sealed system. so if the LN is heated up it goes to gas right? is ur system gonna withstand the pressure?
and how r u gonna convert gas nitrogen back to liquid state?
sorry if i didn't read the details but i get ur gist of the design.
The safetly mechonism is a simple pressure valve, it will keep it from exploding, but that would only happen after extremly prolonged use ie a few solid years of running, or trying to dissapate the heat generated by the shuttle, in which case the nitrogen will harmlessly rejoin the atmosphere from whence it came...
How i am going to convert the gas you ask?? the gas will naturally turn into a liquad after extreme compression as the molecules have nowhere to move, and it turns to liquid... it will however stay as a liquid...
As for not reading the posts, no prob, :angry: hehehehehe i don't do that... :P
you could first patent the idea first
i dont think its wise to go into mass production just yet since there is no really such need for "extreme cooling" like ur system.
ppl want economical yet not to complicated and maintence-needy cooling system.
but then i could be wrong and u could end up a millionare.....
who knows? :lol:
yeah the patent already exists... it is a bummer, but I will still produce my version of it... (defence contractor kinda patent... :blink: ) It is maintience free... umm yeah i doubt i will be a millionaire... but i think i will at least make some KLDB members happy...Quote:
you could first patent the idea first
i dont think its wise to go into mass production just yet since there is no really such need for "extreme cooling" like ur system.
ppl want economical yet not to complicated and maintence-needy cooling system.
but then i could be wrong and u could end up a millionare.....
who knows?
PS KLDB means KazaaLite Discussion Board... hehehehe :P
so why r u looking for alternative cooling element? LN sounds good to me.
unless LN is expensive and ur looking for something cheaper
LN sounds good to me too, however i am also looking at a much cheaper more available coolents like R138A... LN in its Liquid form is incredibly hazardous too... not that R138A isn't, but it won't take your arm...Quote:
so why r u looking for alternative cooling element? LN sounds good to me.
unless LN is expensive and ur looking for something cheaper
well i'll stick with the good'old fans for now they are noisy but cheap
and who cares about noise when ur in a lan party where everyone is tryin to shoot the crap outta ya?
:lol:
lol good point... :D :lol: hehehehehe :PQuote:
well i'll stick with the good'old fans for now they are noisy but cheap
and who cares about noise when ur in a lan party where everyone is tryin to shoot the crap outta ya?
Couldn't be bothered to read all the previous 6 pages, so this may already have been mentioned.
Alcohol.
Very low freezing point.
Lower evaporation point than water.
Of course, this could be why they use it in standard heat pipes. :rolleyes:
Methanol - expensive, boiling point 65C, poisonous.
Ethanol - cheap, next lowest at 78C.
2-Proponal - unknown price, 82C.
1-Proponal - unknown price, 97C, possibly carcinogenic.
Propanol is often used as the solvent in tape head cleaning kits, but it is likely to be a mixture of the 1- and 2- varieties, so it is probably not suitable.
You could try different ones till you find the one that works best, they all have a higher evaporation rate than water which is the requirement for a heat transfer process.
Btw, the lowest boiling temp is not necessarily the best, your heat pipe will not work if the transfer agent is constantly in the vapour state.
Well, wait, err, meh, ugh, guh, umm.
I just dont get it here, the heat energy here, the Liquid nitrogen takes in the heat energy, and tries to expand as a result, which in a normal envoirnment would cause it to loose its cool tempertaure (take in Terminator 2, it dissipated after being so close to the molten metal.
But how does it get rid of the heat that it has, if it cant expand? Where does the heat go?
it expands until the pressure is so great it turns back to liquid again, heat is given out in the compression process
i doubt it'll come to that as sciman stated
;)
and no alcohol would suck as a coolant. u want some very cold like LN. you wouldn't want the pipes to become pipebombs do ya?
alcohol as coolant lol... that's rich :lol:
i would not be so harsh, this info was nice to have, it explains why the water level drops so often in my WC set up... and alchohol doesn't tend to burn in an atmospher lacking any air... whi9ch wil be the case inside the cooling unit... i figured nothing explosive should be present since there is so much volatile componets...Quote:
and no alcohol would suck as a coolant. u want some very cold like LN. you wouldn't want the pipes to become pipebombs do ya?
alcohol as coolant lol... that's rich
correct, it will not come to that, but it will do that as described...Quote:
it expands until the pressure is so great it turns back to liquid again, heat is given out in the compression process
i doubt it'll come to that as sciman stated
Sciman, I must be missing something, but im not going to argue with you on this one, dont know about it that much.Quote:
Originally posted by SciManAl@12 January 2004 - 18:17
i would not be so harsh, this info was nice to have, it explains why the water level drops so often in my WC set up... and alchohol doesn't tend to burn in an atmospher lacking any air... whi9ch wil be the case inside the cooling unit... i figured nothing explosive should be present since there is so much volatile componets...Quote:
and no alcohol would suck as a coolant. u want some very cold like LN. you wouldn't want the pipes to become pipebombs do ya?
alcohol as coolant lol... that's rich
correct, it will not come to that, but it will do that as described...Quote:
it expands until the pressure is so great it turns back to liquid again, heat is given out in the compression process
i doubt it'll come to that as sciman stated
But, IM me sometime so we can talk a bit more. @ DrkSideoftheLoon
Just how would you keep the nitrogen in a liquid state? This in itself would require a major refrigeration plant, which is hardly the point of the exercise. Otherwise, as it vaporised the pressure would rise. And rise. And rise until ...
BANG!
The whole point of a heat pipe it that the coolant has to be liquid at "normal" temps, but be capable of being easily vaporised. Alcohols fit this scenario very well, and in a sealed environment there is no risk of fire. Although the "flash" point is realtively low, this still requires an ignition source. The self ignition point is in the region of 400C. Not much chance of a pipe bomb there.
and rise untiull it turned back into a liquid again...Quote:
Just how would you keep the nitrogen in a liquid state? This in itself would require a major refrigeration plant, which is hardly the point of the exercise. Otherwise, as it vaporised the pressure would rise. And rise. And rise until ...
Not without some EXTREME cooling measures. Have you realised just how cold -196C actually is? That's the temperature at which it boils. Like a kettle. Or a steam engine.Quote:
Originally posted by SciManAl@13 January 2004 - 01:59
and rise untiull it turned back into a liquid again...Quote:
Just how would you keep the nitrogen in a liquid state? This in itself would require a major refrigeration plant, which is hardly the point of the exercise. Otherwise, as it vaporised the pressure would rise. And rise. And rise until ...
If you try to heat a sealed hot water cylinder to 300C, it will probably explode long before you get there. Thats at 200C above the boiling point.
200C above the boiling point of nitrogen is 4C. So if you put liguid nitrogen in a sealed vessel and fail to keep it cold enough, you can work out for yourself what is likely to happen.
i dont know much about metals but isn't metals in colds like that become more brital? and with all taht contraction and expansion u r due to have a structual failure sometime and next time u know it explodes in ur face....
metals soften when heated but become crystalized when extreme cooled.
without a compressor to constantly take the heat out ur only buffer is the coolant itself.
have u ever tried to remove the coolant cap when a car engine is running? (dont do this at home) but if u do coolant shoots out like crazy, pressure does build up inside...
oh and btw the chipsets are pumping out heat continuously so if the LN isn't moving (not circulating and actively transporting the heat OUTSIDE the machine) all ur system does is absorbing the heat, give it out and so on it doesn't move the heat OUTSIDE like a frige does
how r u gonna solve that? eventually u r gonna have a heat build up so great ur system isn't gonna take it anymore
it is still a FLAWED system
James, I know where your going with this.Quote:
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@12 January 2004 - 22:31
oh and btw the chipsets are pumping out heat continuously so if the LN isn't moving (not circulating and actively transporting the heat OUTSIDE the machine) all ur system does is absorbing the heat, give it out and so on it doesn't move the heat OUTSIDE like a frige does
how r u gonna solve that? eventually u r gonna have a heat build up so great ur system isn't gonna take it anymore
it is still a FLAWED system
Basically, your saying that energy is building up, with the LN trying to expand like heck, using all its energy to try and break open the block. So of course it will win right? Because if not than the energy will still remain intact?Well, not exactly.
Think about it like this, have you ever pushed on something really big? Like say, the side of the building? Well, in this example, you are exerting energy on the building, beacuse you of course get tired, but does the building show and kind of result of the energy? No.
Its the same way with this steel enclosure that the LN is in. The LN tries to get out, but the steel keeps it in, just like a big building with a comparatively small force being exerted on it. Eventually, if you put enough energy on it, than it will fall explode, but this will take just as long as you to actually push over the building.
So the LN loses its energy trying to expand, and goes back to its normal state.
So im guessing the project was unsuccessful lol
Probably a safe assumption, yes.