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It seems that despite whatever actions are taking, there will always be some controversy about it. Why are all mods not replying here, well the answer is simple and is stated/quoted many times over. It's the same old tune that gets sung when action is taken. I think that if you are mature enough to post/do wrong, then you should be mature enough to handle the action taken.Quote:
Originally posted by CornerPocket+13 July 2004 - 16:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CornerPocket @ 13 July 2004 - 16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Best answered by lynx:Quote:
Originally posted by manker @13 July 2004 - 09:14
I noticed quite a few mods are online yet the only reponse has been from you, Ike's message and a few flippant, throw away remarks from Error.
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 10:14
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
This is a neverending saga...................... [/b][/quote]
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it's protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team's refusal to listen to the POV of some members.
Also there is not controversy with whatever actions are taken. There's been numerous bannings/moderations this past month without a single post in this section. In this case some members consider the mod team to be in error and are legitamately making their feelings known.
Manker can say everything I am thinking but ten times better :D
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it's protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team's refusal to listen to the POV of some members.Quote:
Originally posted by manker+13 July 2004 - 18:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker @ 13 July 2004 - 18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by CornerPocket@13 July 2004 - 16:38
Best answered by lynx:Quote:
Originally posted by manker @13 July 2004 - 09:14
I noticed quite a few mods are online yet the only reponse has been from you, Ike's message and a few flippant, throw away remarks from Error.
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx
Quote:
@13 July 2004 - 10:14
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
It seems that despite whatever actions are taking, there will always be some controversy about it. Why are all mods not replying here, well the answer is simple and is stated/quoted many times over. It's the same old tune that gets sung when action is taken. I think that if you are mature enough to post/do wrong, then you should be mature enough to handle the action taken.
This is a neverending saga......................
Also there is not controversy with whatever actions are taken. There's been numerous bannings/moderations this past month without a single post in this section. In this case some members consider the mod team to be in error and are legitamately making their feelings known. [/b][/quote]
you know what.....
your post is total bullshit :ghostface:
CP is right, this is a never ending story. There is always someone who disagrees the teams decission. And then there is always a wank....eh someone that post this kind of crap.
The decission, how sad it is, was a fair one. Sam4x got a fair chance. And with that he already got more then he probably deserved. It where his actions that forced us to step in, not the other way around. He already got more chances then anyone else. Too bad it went this way. :(
oh and about listening to the members, well to be honest...
Maybe we got a shitload of pm's in favor of banning sam4, because of his misbehaviour. :ph34r:
OK. Thats clear enough. I'll mark you down as disagreeing with those that think the mod team should consider listening to member opinion on the treatment of Sam.Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@13 July 2004 - 17:15
you know what.....
your post is total bullshit :ghostface:
CP is right, this is a never ending story. There is always someone who disagrees the teams decission. And then there is always a wank....eh someone that post this kind of crap.
The decission, how sad it is, was a fair one. Sam4x got a fair chance. And with that he already got more then he probably deserved. It where his actions that forced us to step in, not the other way around. He already got more chances then anyone else. Too bad it went this way. :(
oh and about listening to the members, well to be honest...
Maybe we got a shitload of pm's in favor of banning sam4, because of his misbehaviour. :ph34r:
No need for the abuse, but I was impressed by your smiley usage.
Not at all. Like other people have said, you have taken the time to answer people's questions. We may not agree on this issue but that has no bearing on my (our) feelings that you are doing a good job.Quote:
Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 14:59
i've no problem 'stepping down' or 'resigning' either, if it's what most people want then it's for the best. perhaps a poll for that would be better
Besides we can't have any more good team members resign. :lol:
Well, I've got to say it.
Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.
Quite frankly, if you can't behave better than that you should be on moderation.
It'll never happen though, will it.
Oh contrar, it is and always will be neverending..... regardless.Quote:
Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 10:56
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it's protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team's refusal to listen to the POV of some members.
Mods refuse to listen to members? Mods are not here to act upon what members decide, we are here to act upon the action of members who fail to comply. In retrospect of your comment, you complain that we do not listen, why do members not listen to us?
Surely in any case actual evidence warrants actions and would overrule pov's, wouldn't you say. It's plain to see why action took place against the most recent member. It was plain as day amongst the board for all to see, witness, read, etc.
Again it doesn't seem to matter to the members whether or not something is done by us. Either way the Mod's are ridiculed from both sides of the field. That's a fact.
To be honest, I am in the dark as to why Sam4 was banned. So many threads and posts and padlocks that I was never able to get the definitive story.Quote:
Originally posted by CornerPocket@13 July 2004 - 16:47
It's plain to see why action took place against the most recent member. It was plain as day amongst the board for all to see, witness, read, etc.
People have stated it was a conflict with Adster, but I read that thread and it was just trivial sparing, both were at fault, no big deal.
Then again, by the time I got there, Mods could have deleted the "bad stuff".
I would like a nice concise explanation so I can make an informed decision.
Forever is a mighty long time. I think banning is for people who are attempting to hurt the board and it's members (hypoluxa) or who are as crazy as a shit house rat and cannot stop spamming, hi-jacking and creating 20 accounts (IN).
I saw Sam4 as making an ass of himself as his biggest crime, never thought of him as out to hurt the board.
As I say, I don't know the facts, but would like to.
Oh contrar, it is and always will be neverending..... regardless.Quote:
Originally posted by CornerPocket+13 July 2004 - 18:47--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CornerPocket @ 13 July 2004 - 18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 10:56
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it's protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team's refusal to listen to the POV of some members.
Mods refuse to listen to members? Mods are not here to act upon what members decide, we are here to act upon the action of members who fail to comply. In retrospect of your comment, you complain that we do not listen, why do members not listen to us?
Surely in any case actual evidence warrants actions and would overrule pov's, wouldn't you say. It's plain to see why action took place against the most recent member. It was plain as day amongst the board for all to see, witness, read, etc.
Again it doesn't seem to matter to the members whether or not something is done by us. Either way the Mod's are ridiculed from both sides of the field. That's a fact. [/b][/quote]
Au contraire, I meant that this situation isn't never ending, rather than a general disharmony between the mods and members.
Mods should listen to the members, it is beyond question. Who are you listening to if not the members?
I have already posted that according to the letter of the rules the mods have acted properly and that Sam did break the rules, again, what some members of the board are asking for is some leniency in this matter. To listen to what the majority of members have to say.
This is a different situation, normally the members agree with the mods and are not sad to see a member banned or moderated. This time some members believe the mods are in error. I'm repeating myself but in the end perhaps my point isn't specifically about the Sam situation but more about the mod team seeking out, listening to and acting on what members have to say about certain situations.
Lastly the mods get ridiculed from both sides of what field? you mean the members and the admin ridicule the mods. I'm at a loss with that comment.
Then I must repeat myself, getting ridiculed from both sides = damned if we do, damned if we don't. There will always be some that agree and many that don't.
In my view it seems that members are almost always against actions that are taken vs agree (rarely does this happen), why is that, because they have no say as to what should be done? Why is it hard to accept what one gets because of their own action/fault.
You imply that mods should listen? What about members, should they not? Perhaps the concept of give a little, get a little would be a consideration. Listening should be done from both sides of the table, wouldn't you agree?
well never expected such an answer from you...Quote:
Originally posted by lynx@13 July 2004 - 19:43
Well, I've got to say it.
Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.
Quite frankly, if you can't behave better than that you should be on moderation.
It'll never happen though, will it.
but then again you probably followed me around the past 2 years ;) So you exactly know what i have been doing around here.
My attitude against other members has always been the same, fair honest and listening. 80% of what i've did i did off board, pming and trying to fix things before they really broke.
So if a long timer like you, wich i respected thinks this way....
Well no moderation needed....
later
:)
well never expected such an answer from you...Quote:
Originally posted by jetje+13 July 2004 - 19:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jetje @ 13 July 2004 - 19:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 19:43
Well, I've got to say it.
Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.
Quite frankly, if you can't behave better than that you should be on moderation.
It'll never happen though, will it.
but then again you probably followed me around the past 2 years ;) So you exactly know what i have been doing around here.
My attitude against other members has always been the same, fair honest and listening. 80% of what i've did i did off board, pming and trying to fix things before they really broke.
So if a long timer like you, wich i respected thinks this way....
Well no moderation needed....
later
:) [/b][/quote]
We have read the Team Chat logs.
So you guys continue to argue, I didn't mean to interrrupt it above with a simple question.
As always, in the dark
Hobbes
Jetje, perhaps you should go back and reread your post, and ask yourself if you would like someone talking to you that way.
Obviously I don't know what you've been doing in the background, but your public image (and you are not alone here) has often been one of arrogant superiority, and that is the only way we can judge you.
Collectively the mods seem to think that their's is the only opinion which matters. In fact it is the only one with any effective force, but that is a different being altogether. Ordinary members do not cry "foul" for no reason, particularly when the supposed crime seems to be so petty, and by no means one-sided or even the worst offender.
Manker has pointed out that there have been several moderations and bannings recently without so much as a murmur from the members. To me that indicates that the members by and large agree with the mods. Perhaps that means that their opinion when they do comment is even more important than the mods think.
see it from the other side:
WE cannot satisfy 100% of the members.
WE mods do our best to make this forum better every day.
WE put alot of time in this board and what do we get?
Angry replies because we dont do our job correctly? Come on this isnt our job this is a hobby for us. If we would get paid to do our job here or members need to pay to 'enter' this community THEN you can shout what you want because then you can expect quality for your money. because this isnt the situation please think that we are human and are doing our best to run this place smoothly.
ATM being a mod isnt as fun as it was. because of all what happend lately.
So I hope we all can have normal conversations again.
I am always open to chat with members that want to talk about the board or think they have idea's to improve it. etc... etc...
Ike
(did not wanted to make a new topic so I just posted this here because I wanted to say this.)
We have read the Team Chat logs. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Withcheese+13 July 2004 - 20:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese @ 13 July 2004 - 20:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@13 July 2004 - 19:35
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx
Quote:
@13 July 2004 - 19:43
Well, I've got to say it.
Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.
Quite frankly, if you can't behave better than that you should be on moderation.
It'll never happen though, will it.
well never expected such an answer from you...
but then again you probably followed me around the past 2 years ;) So you exactly know what i have been doing around here.
My attitude against other members has always been the same, fair honest and listening. 80% of what i've did i did off board, pming and trying to fix things before they really broke.
So if a long timer like you, wich i respected thinks this way....
Well no moderation needed....
later
:)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Sssh Cheese ;)
I wasnt gonna reply to this post at all, but meh...
The best way to vote is always Secret Ballot, thats why there is a poll in Team Chat.
The Team Members can debate an issue until they are Blue in the Face, but at the end of the day there has to be a consensus.. A decision Made.
The Poll, is the only way to do this... if you try and "Follow the Posts", it wont work.
You will have people with strong views both ways, people on the fence and people not giving their opinion... It would be very difficult to actually follow how many want one thing, and how many another.
A Poll, therefore is the only way to do it.
Once a decision has been made; irrespective of your private views it should be followed... this is called "Collective Responsibility".
What im trying to say here is, sometimes you may attack Mods for something they say as a Mod... this is not necessarily the way they personally feel.
Its because of this i feel compelled not to speak out on this issue at all... its a wholley different issue to the one where I spoke out against Cely and HaXors banning....as I felt no "Collective Resonsibility" for that initial decision.
error
Publishing that list of votes in order, in effect took away MN's right to have his vote via Secret Ballot, which the rest of us enjoyed.
The fact that MN had already hinted strongly as to which way he voted is immaterial... everyone knows that it was 7:5 before he voted, they therefore know which way he voted.
You could just as effectively stated "JTR didnt post last" with a list of those that had voted in Alphabetical order... this way, it would have been upto him to say how he voted.
I would hope he'd stay quiet on the subject though, unless everyone decides to make their vote public. If everyone does, i dont see the point in holding those discussions private in the 1st place.
everyone
We may disagree at times; however, I for one... have a great deal of respect for everyone on the Team and their opinions. I also know that I; and believe the Team members individually, do listen to those members that wish to PM and take account those views expressed in other ways.
When they make the movie of this FST incident they should call it "The Thirteenth Vote." :lol:
I think the movie should be called,Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced@13 July 2004 - 20:46
I wasnt gonna reply to this post at all, but meh...
The best way to vote is always Secret Ballet, thats why there is a poll in Team Chat.
The Case of the Secret Ballet.
http://www.dance-unique.com/images/g...rina-white.jpg
I think I may have found out why the Mods decisions seem so strange at times ;)
Well I used to perform ballet, but I'd hardly call it a secret. :unsure:
I didnt know you performed Ballet with poles.... :blink: :unsure: :ph34r:Quote:
Originally posted by NikkiD@13 July 2004 - 23:48
Well I used to perform ballet, but I'd hardly call it a secret. :unsure:
Bastard. :angry:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
shhhhQuote:
Originally posted by NikkiD@13 July 2004 - 23:51
Bastard. :angry:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
My Dad might come in..... he's old and loaded, i dun wanna screw things up :ph34r:
shhhhQuote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced+14 July 2004 - 00:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced @ 14 July 2004 - 00:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NikkiD@13 July 2004 - 23:51
Bastard. :angry:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
My Dad might come in..... he's old and loaded, i dun wanna screw things up :ph34r: [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You got a small camera RF? :o :unsure:
edit - erm, thats not as personal as it sounds :ph34r:
"THE THIRTEENTH VOTE"Quote:
Originally posted by Withcheese@14 July 2004 - 00:14
When they make the movie of this FST incident they should call it "The Thirteenth Vote." :lol:
BOT
No-one said it was easy.Quote:
Originally posted by {I}{K}{E}@13 July 2004 - 20:52
see it from the other side:
WE cannot satisfy 100% of the members.
WE mods do our best to make this forum better every day.
WE put alot of time in this board and what do we get?
Angry replies because we dont do our job correctly? Come on this isnt our job this is a hobby for us. If we would get paid to do our job here or members need to pay to 'enter' this community THEN you can shout what you want because then you can expect quality for your money. because this isnt the situation please think that we are human and are doing our best to run this place smoothly.
ATM being a mod isnt as fun as it was. because of all what happend lately.
So I hope we all can have normal conversations again.
I am always open to chat with members that want to talk about the board or think they have idea's to improve it. etc... etc...
Ike
(did not wanted to make a new topic so I just posted this here because I wanted to say this.)
But I take particular exception to this bit.
Do you think you are doing something extra special because you are doing it voluntarily instead of getting paid for it? Does it give you a right to do the job badly (I'm not saying you do, just that you seem to be claiming that right).Quote:
If we would get paid to do our job here or members need to pay to 'enter' this community THEN you can shout what you want because then you can expect quality for your money.
Without the members, and in particular the regular members, this forum would be nothing. Yet you (collectively) seem to be claiming that members opinions count for nothing because they give you a hard time.
I can only say this: If you can't take the criticism stop making the decisions.
I just think that all the stuff lately that is thrown towards the mods is going a bit to far. If people disagree with actions made by a mod there is also another way of showing what your thoughts are instead of making a topic with agry smilies etc.. etc..
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don't i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
Thats a bit rich when everybody stood behind you when you were banned <_<Quote:
Originally posted by Celerystalksme@14 July 2004 - 13:38
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don't i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
Surely if Sam uses another name that will just get banned too? :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
You are such a little whore......Quote:
Originally posted by Celerystalksme@14 July 2004 - 13:38
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don't i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
You are such a little whore...... [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Tikibonbon+14 July 2004 - 23:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tikibonbon @ 14 July 2004 - 23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Celerystalksme@14 July 2004 - 13:38
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don't i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
btw a couple of things...no one takes what i say seriously in this part of the forum...and secondly not all people stood behind me when i was banned, i was backstabbed quite a bit...so don't jump to conclusion thinking you know all the facts...
Didn't the pesky geppers back you up? :unsure:
almost all of them...i think ;)Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisLover@15 July 2004 - 00:17
Didn't the pesky geppers back you up? :unsure:
Still not back? :(
:01: SAM4 :01:
I'm with Cely on this one.
Sam is gone. Call it a day.
He's not dead from being banned...he's just banned. Go get a life.
I understand everyone wanting to find out why he was banned. Now ya know and still have a problem.
Some folks are thinking that if they make enough noise that the mod/admin team will backtrack and unban sam.
That would be a bad example in light of why he was banned.
I really don't understand the surprise tbh. People act like he did nothing wrong. Sorry your "friend" fucked up.
Mods have made mistakes (I been a victim myself) but this ain't one of 'em.
I don't think they need to get opinion of everyone for a ban either.
Dis ain't a vote for President.
If any of you cared you should have pm'ed sam to chill out or whatever.
Don't feel sorry for sam...he'll be back, if he's not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)
At the end of it all guess what............it's just the internet.
I thought about asking what would happen if he came back under a different name and behaved himself but then I re-read the rules.Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@14 July 2004 - 17:24
Don't feel sorry for sam...he'll be back, if he's not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)
I know the rulesQuote:
13. Using another account to circumvent a moderation or ban isn't allowed. This will result in a ban of ALL your present and future accounts.
but if a banned member came back under a different name and behaved without causing a fuss about his/hers previous incarnation would that be too much of a problem?Quote:
are not open to members own interpretation
The punishment of banning still stands as that person would of lost all past "crediblity"
and their online personality they built up would have been destroyed.
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.
Could I ask what people think about that?
I think thats a good idea for the non evil ones :01:
Reminds me of the lounge, yesterday.Quote:
Originally posted by namzuf9@14 July 2004 - 18:26
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.
Both Hypo and Billy Dean. :)