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Originally Posted by manker
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tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball;
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
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tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball;
Where's the broom? :(
:angry: :angry: :frusty:
I forgot to add that's a penalty from FIFA rules. Maybe you don't use those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Oh and unlike you (since I actually play the game) I don't need google but since you want to tell me about a game you know shit about, here ya go....
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(1) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball who has his back to the basket below the free throw line extend-ed outside the Lower Defensive Box.
(2) A defender may apply contact with a forearm and/or one hand with a bent elbow to an offensive player in a post-up position with the ball in the Lower Defensive Box.
(3) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball at any time in the Lower Defensive Box. The forearm in the above exceptions is solely for the purpose of main-taining a defensive position.
(4) A defender may position his leg between the legs of an offensive player in a post-up position in the Lower Defensive Box for the purpose of main-taining defensive position. If his foot leaves the floor in an attempt to dis-lodge his opponent, it is a foul immediately.
Since you captainobviously have never seen an NBA game (or else your argument is rather pointless) and want to use teh web to tell you whether basketball is a contact sport or not, the above blurb gives you a stiff STFU.Quote:
many of the rules are written in general terms while the need for the rule may have been created by specific play situations. This practice eliminates the necessity for many additional rules and provides the officials the latitude and authority to adapt application of the rules to fit conditions of play in any particular game.
Next time don't just look for the word "contact" within a web page and roll with it.
If someone ever wants to put their child in a non-contact sport, don't just read the web about it. Watch a game.
You are in my pocket, once again. :dry:
Are you alrite or what.
I've read what you've posted but I'm not sure of it's purpose. I think you're contending my assertion that a player can't make contact with another player before a tackle.
This is clearly nonsense.
Scenario:
A centre forward is running with the ball, his body shielding the ball from opposing players. A defender is running alongside him, shoulder to shoulder, trying to alter the centre forwards body-shape such that he can steal the ball. However the centre forward is too strong for him to do that so he makes a slide-tackle and knocks the ball for a throw-in.
So there you have it. Contact, just before the tackle.
If I've misunderstood your intention, please re-iterate it ad nauseum.
Btw, I don't get it. You deride me for googling and posting rules - saying that common sense and experience > rules and then you post some rules. Seriously, wtf :blink:
Admittedly....Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
I know about shoulder to shoulder contact (or shoulder charge) however I did what you did...
You conveniently picked out rules that say no contact regarding basketball and left out rules that allow contact (even after I pointed out some reasons ffs)
In essence if soccer is a contact sport then so is basketball.
It's hilarious that you have nothing to say regarding contact in basketball. Maybe you should have watched a game before making comment.
Consider yourself cornered and pocketed. :lol: :lol: :lol:
If you say it enough times, it'll be real.
To bad it's true....in every way in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
You shown yourself to be a "shit googler and lack common sense." :lol: :lol:
Just because it's a new page, doesn't mean that what I stated on the last didn't happen.
I have no intention of reiterating. I am entirely satisfied with the assertions I made, you could not refute them, choosing instead to skirt around the issue and hurl insults - tho' your grandstanding bravado is commendable .. if you're into that sort of thing.
Oooh lord.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
You made the assertion that basketball is a non-contact sport. If you have ever watched a game, you'd know this not be true. Yet you quoted rules saying there is no contact....b b b but there rules allowing contact clearly stated.
I then conveniently found rules in soccer not allowing contact but left out one's that do allow it.
The difference is I know soccer since I've played it (watched it). You obviously don't know basketball....which is cool. Keep to your one sport. ;)
Wasn't he trying to rebut them (your assertions).
That sentence actually doesn't make much sense, or at least the contraction doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Wasn't is a contracted form of " was not". Which would make the sentence "Was not he trying to rebut them ....
The first sentence in this post " .... doesn't make much sense ...." is fine, as doesn't in that context is a contraction for does not. Which would make the sentence " .... does not make much sense ....".
Point is that "Wasn't" as a contraction can't just be placed anywhere.
Please accept my apologies.
I went to great pains to explain what I was asserting. That wasn't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
You can either go and read my posts or you can continue thinking the wrong thing, it's up to you.
A valuable lesson that could possibly be extrapolated and applied to 'hasn't' and 'doesn't'. Thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
I also enjoyed your use of 'cabal' and 'schadenfreude' in the other thread.
This all started with him saying basketball is a non-contact sport. I initially thought (giving too much credit again) that he was just trying to be funny but then realized he was serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
I made the assertions about soccer not allowing contact to parallel his convenient rule pickins'.
He came in this thread hoping to get a squabble going. Unlike others with their precious threads....I don't mind. :rolleyes:
Oh was that what I thought. Thanks for clearing it up, I had no idea.
Btw, good try but it's actually spelled parallel.
Either way it started with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Either way you were wrong. I said that folks that watch and/or play basketball were laughing at you 'cause it's captainobvious to them.
My mistake. :rolleyes: I meant to correct that but only corrected squabble.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
I originally had squable.
Oh yeah I peeped that.....
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Originally Posted by manker
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Originally Posted by manker
I did wonder why you kept banging on about that despite my assertions, which were concise and easily understandable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Now I see that you only choose to argue that which you you feel confident about, which is commendable and exactly the sort of thing I do. Now we just need to work on your humility, once that's sorted debates of which you're a part might actually go somewhere rather than the disputant wondering if you're reading anything other than your own posts.
NPs on the error, it happens to to the best of us - I've first hand experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Shortly after I made that post, I explained exactly why I termed it non-contact. I take it that you're not calling my reasoning into question any more. Cool.
Well the weird thing is I actually knew what I was talking about, on both sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
You went off half-cocked. You assumed it was non-contact. I corrected you, citing experience playing and watching the sport. Still on your high horse, you cited google, and only looked for what bolstered your argument and ignored the rest of the website....so bad infact that the part citing contact was right under the part you cited. :blink:
It is easy to make mistakes. You were mistaken. Fair enough but sometimes trust that someone that plays the sport might know a little bit more about it than you before showing your ass.
Basketball is a contact sport. :)
Speaking of humility....
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Originally Posted by manker
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Originally Posted by manker
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Originally Posted by manker
Actually yes I did. You read what you wanted to read to bolster your "no turning back" argument. When you put yourself out there so much it's hard take being humbled.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
You just copied and pasted the best bits out of all of my posts on this matter. Cheers and well summarised.
Basketball is, per definition, a non-contact sport. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Random sites found through google all say the same thing. Since it's how people all over the world define it, why bother arguing the point?
I've played it, btw. 'twas all right, though it's hardly the best game in the world.
Nice to see your team have been doing all right though (at least at times), busy.
Oh jeez.....google AGAIN? :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Dude you could propbably find sites that say basketball is a non-contact sport, a contact sport, a semi-contact sport and the same with soccer.
(I bet when you googled, you probably saw contact sport with basketball and didn't post it :ermm: )
If a website told you soccer was a non-contact sport, would you agree, or use your own brain? :blink:
Book knowledge versus common sense. :dry:
btw as I said before (regarding the Wizards), where's the broom?
They got swept by Miami (without Shaq for the Wizard's home games). :angry:
I think basketball is the best game probably due to it's rapid fire scoring.....there's a highlight almost every half-a-minute and I'm never disappointed. There is so much scoring and different ways that it happens that I'm usually exhausted at the end.
I like football but there can be much disappointment. I once went to game that ended in a tie at 7 and froze my ass off in nose-bleed seats. :angry:
Oh ffs, I said I've played it too, it isn't a contact sport and that's that, 'cos of the rules see, and no, I didn't find any sites that expressively said it was a contact sport, though I did find a somewhat bewildered-sounding fellow in a blog who might have an opinion in that direction, possibly, not really sure what he wanted to say. But I just picked a few at random, I've no doubt there are more people who don't read books, or the rules, so there are probably people out there who'd say it was a contact sport.
It really doesn't matter to me whether it is or not, but it's defined as a non-contact sport on the web, and so it was when I played it in school, and that wasn't just once.
I'm not really tall enough though, I did learn how to shoot all right, but I never got into the game.
One could argue that non-contact sports might require more skills. In contact sports, like hockey, it seems to me that a team can sometimes win through brute force, you can't do that with basketball, 'cos you aren't allowed to mangle the opposition. I dunno' about you but that's a good thing in my book.
Good for your team, though.
That's what I'm talking about. You read the rules and if you really understood the game dynamic (or watched an NBA game) you'd understand what I mean about contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
When you played you might have called a foul at the slightest touch 'cause of the rules. However, that is not how the game is played. Did you learn about boxing out, posting a player, driving in for a basket when time is winding down to purposely get fouled, purposely fouling a player to stop the clock to make him shoot free throws to get the ball back? If I block a shot and knock a player down afterwards...it's not a foul, it's a block. If I miss the shot and knock him down, it's a foul.
I even said that if a person terms basketball as non-contact then soccer has to be as well.
If a parent is trying to get their child into a non-contact sport, I wouldn't recommend tennis or basketball. I'd recommend tennis.
My 2 torn ACL's, 1 torn meniscus, temporary blindness in one eye from an elbow, numerous blindside picks, sprained ankles, hip-pointers, bruised shins and thighs, knock downs, smacks, fractured and sprained (fat) fingers, and scratches won't allow a basketball recommendation. :dry:
I think that's the reason that this all makes me laugh.
Book knowledge versus common sense.
I figure the rules sort of define the game. Since you aren't really supposed to touch, officially, then it isn't a contact sport. But sure, inofficially you may get away with a certain amount of physical contact.
When I played football, tackles weren't allowed (I wasn't that old then) so at that point it wasn't really a contact sport either, what's different with proper footie as it's played by adults, and what makes footie different from basketball, is that the rules regulate what's proper and what is improper contact. That you can't punch someone, with or without him being in possesion of the ball, but that you can tackle him if he has the ball is something that's stated in the rules, the same isn't true for basketball.
I see physical contact in basketball more like insulting someone with the purpose of psyching them when playing football. You aren't really supposed to do it, but it still happens, as the refs can't really blow the whistle every time someone slips a little, or the game will never get played.
Contact or non-contact are just words anyway, and I don't reckon it's entirely possible to say exactly where one starts and another begins, so I'll go by what seems to be the official definition, if I'm uncertain. In this case though, I don't think it's a contact sport period.
Anyways, I don't really see one as inferior to the other of the two terms, and I don't really understand how I came to write this much about it. It's up to you if you wanna' re-write the dictionary, but I'm not sure how common sense comes into that.
Common sense comes in where by watching the game you can see there's contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Common sense comes in where by playing the game there's contact.
Book knowledge comes in where in the rules, there is contact allowed in basketball (shown earlier with the forearm thingie and also not shown is that the hand is part of ball). Also in the rules, or better yet not in the rules, it doesn't say too much about folks without the ball (Ever see 2 players fighting for position in a post?). It says nothing about a shooter being hit after his shot is blocked.
In soccer you are not allowed (according to the rules at least) to do anything besides shoulder-to-shoulder contact before touching the ball.
Common sense comes in where if the dictionary said basketball is a non-contact and yet your child comes home fucked up from contact, you'll be scratching your head instead of using the aforementioned...common sense.
Basketball is also slightly different in that penalties are part of play and game strategy.
If a known shit foul shooter is about to win the game on a dunk with time at the last second, it would smart to foul him purposely to increase your teams chances of winning. One fella on the Phoenix Suns (NBA Playoffs), Joe Johnson was going for a dunk, and Jerry Stackhouse of the Dallas Stackhouse fouled him and now Joe Johnson is out for the rest of the playoff season (he fell on his back).
This is the reason why simple reading is not the end all be all answer and a simple watch of the game tells the story rather easily (which I'm sure all of you have seen). :dry:
Yeah, what happened there ? I was working for most of the games. I figured Miami would win the series with the Wizards ( I actually am picking them to win the championship), but wasn't figuring on another sweep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
I still can't believe they played like that and a missing Shaq.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
While at the games I did notice a trend in the foul calling in Miami's favor and I am really speaking from logical standpoint.
I look for stuff like that even if they miss a call against the Wizards.
You should have seen the number of times Wade went to the charity stripe.
The Wizards mounted an amazing comeback near the end of the last game. It was exciting as ever!!
Unfortunately we fell short. :(
If Miami plays this good without Shaq they are a shoe in to win the whole thing with him.
The rest of the contenders are in fierce battles.
Indiana/Detroit are tied at 2, San Antonio/Seattle tied at 2, Dallas/Phoenix tied at 2.....
Miami is now resting, Shaq has rested for their last 2 games...
And the way it looks, they will be resting for awhile. The others look to go the full 7 games.
Your team is now my favorite to win the whole thing as well. ;)
Yeah, same here :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy
===
Busy, I know I said I have no intention of re-iterating my point but you seem to be in a wonderful, magical world of your own where only your posts are relevant. Maybe you really did forget this.
No-one is saying that contact doesn't happen in Basketball. However, intentional contact is specifically forbidden by the rules. You keep saying about fouls - they're specifically forbidden by the rules too.
A player is forbidden from trying to gain an advantage by using contact, if he tries to do so, he will be penalised. This is what distinguishes it from soccer and other contact sports.
Surely - you cannot disagree with this :huh:
Busy, just because people manipulate a system it doesn't alter what the system is supposed to be if it works as it's intended.
If one sets a given system of rules as the norm, then how can circumventions of the rules be what the system is defined by?
I'll agree that basketball is a contact sport the day the rules say it is, and since they don't, yet, I don't.
Just wanted to let you know Miami wasn't my team, they were just my pick to win it all. Unfortunately, Orlando is my team ( yeah, the ones who drafted and lost Shaq) and I still have a love for the man who made The Magic good, if only to leave before we got our championship. I cannot gripe though, All of my teams have won championships recently ( with Atlanta Braves being the most distant) The others are The Buccaneers, and Tamap Bay LightningQuote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
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Originally Posted by manker
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Originally Posted by Snny
This is allowed and it used to gain an advantage by the poster and/or the person being posted.Quote:
1) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball who has his back to the basket below the free throw line extend-ed outside the Lower Defensive Box.
(2) A defender may apply contact with a forearm and/or one hand with a bent elbow to an offensive player in a post-up position with the ball in the Lower Defensive Box.
(3) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball at any time in the Lower Defensive Box. The forearm in the above exceptions is solely for the purpose of main-taining a defensive position.
(4) A defender may position his leg between the legs of an offensive player in a post-up position in the Lower Defensive Box for the purpose of main-taining defensive position. If his foot leaves the floor in an attempt to dis-lodge his opponent, it is a foul immediately.
It is contact.
It is not incidental.
It is intentional.
It just doesn't say, "This can be used to gain an advantage."
Book knowledge versus common sense.
Also Snny, fouls are intended to be a penalty yet it is not circumventing the system when a player purposely fouls another. It can be a penalty for the person fouled....yet the rules don't state this (yet it is within the rules).
Book knowledge versus common sense.
Do you think it becomes more true if you say it a lot?
What you are quoting means that the ref doesn't have to blow the whistle if it happens, not that the player should strive to do it. If he happens to come into contact with someone when he's trying to block them, 'cos they are moving against him, then that's cool, it doesn't mean that he's supposed reach out and touch someone on purpose.
More: Purposefully breaking the rules can't be part of the rules. You can't break a rule while acting within the rules, that isn't common sense, sorry.
the disagreement here is becoming pointless. whether or not contact is allowed by the rules does not matter. Fact is it happens, and more often then you could ever imagine, and thats in the pro's. Atleast they are more careful of fouls, so they won't be ejected out of the game. Thats why one of my first posts was asking about pick-up games. If you play out here, you run a good chance of being injured. Most of the people I played with could care less about an "accidental elbow" to the face or anything else, because the was no ref out there making calls. Arguing over it isn't going to change the facts, especially since most of the people arguing have never played an organized game of Basketball in their life :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
:lol: :D
So contact is allowed for a defender as long as it's a really soft prod with a bent elbow or a forearm. Gawd, now I really think they're a bunch of sissy girls. From what I see there, that's all about a defender maintaining his position and not having to yield to the attacker.
It also says that ... these exceptions above ... .
This infers to me that the rule is that no intentional contact is allowed.
Surely, you're not going to let the exceptions over-ride the rule, are you. That really would be illogical.
Thanks for the ruling.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
If you think another discussion that I'm involved with is in danger of becoming pointless, please ensure to let me know and I can take appropriate action.
I've played it, a lot. Multiple tournaments in two schools (and a lot of "unorganized" games as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by RPerry
And since there are only three of us "arguing" about it... :blink:
I agree though, the argument isn't going to change anything.
It won't change that the fact of the matter is that it isn't, according to the rules, a contact sport.
And the rules of the game go before how people break them, when defining the game. In fact, any breaking of the rules is outside the system, and shouldn't come into the definition of it.
That's just how it is. In fact, the "legal" contact in the game from busy's quotes, is referred to as exceptions, ie deviations from the norm, and last I checked no system was defined by whatever deviations from the norm existed within it.
The only danger I see is the possibilty that you could be hit it the head with a basketball, and would argue it was soccer :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by manker