What has been bizarre, I am at a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Printable View
What has been bizarre, I am at a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Stating that something is "bizarre" does not make it such. An example with supporting evidence is only appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
@BM,
I actually think you may be correct that as a general rule that a God figure does influence those in desperate situations. They can put their faith in God and tough it out rather than act out.
I think for most people, they would still behave, as a society of chaos goes against our innate desire for security, but those desperate people would no longer have any comfort for their pain.
I would like to think that people act within a self-imposed conscience, as I do, and not because of fear of punishment, but perhaps that is a luxury I have because I am fortunate to have a secure home and job. Perhaps if I were starving, I wouldn't be such a stickler about stealing.
Like Jpol reacted against my generalization (which I still believe)about people coming to know and adhering to a religion based on community and brainwashing, I reacted to you pointing out that people "behaved" because they are aware of a higher authority.
I tend to agree with your rule generally, but for me personally, the rule doesn't work, as for Jpol he does not feel he is brainwashed.
So just like Jpol, I don't like people telling me "how I think" or "how I can to believe what I do." Mea culpa, I am just a man.
There are probably 100 million Atheists (I halved the number given) in China behaving themselves but perhaps there are other variables involved. After my emotional response to your statement, I realized that I have said the same thing myself. Keeps the sheep calm.
So to sum up:
I think religion does keep the desperate from acting desperately, but I think that conflicts between different religions are a shame because they trash all the wisdom and philosophy to argue over details. It really strikes me as profoundly ironic, that those things which were originally created to bring order to chaos and teach people to get along, can and are a source of separation among people.
As a person who is not going to ascribe to ANY religion, I look at conflict based on religion, whether it be global or just kids beating up another because he is a "damn Jew", as pitiful and pointless. I wish we could have a unified religion in which we focused more on how to get along as a planet, and not on the details in some book.
You appear to have mellowed a bit today Hobbes. Have you perchance begat last night? :cool:
A gentleman does not discuss such things. http://ghettobaby.net/Emoticons/081403emotes/hump.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
If the community and way you are brought up doesnt influence your religion...
Can someone explain to me how Catholics beget Catholics, CofE Beget CofE, Jew beget Jews etc etc etc in 99.99% of cases..
that leaves .1% that actually "Find" a religion that they werent brought up to believe in (ie Brainwashed)..
That doesnt mean they are wrong... just that it is what they were brought up to believe in...
The Earth must be flat, i was brought up that way... :whistling
The Earth may be flat but your words have sharp edges ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
I agree with Busy that having God in ones life probably does influence people. I do however wish that it would be acknowledged more by those with faith that having God sometimes influences some to do do wrong. He has stated clearly that not all people of faith are "angels", but not admitted that some people do bad thing specifically because of their faith (or at least not clearly as far as I can tell)
I'm sure everyone could point to many atrocities committed in the name of god both on individual and institutional levels, let's not pretend that "religion" means good 100% of the time.
I am interested in the idea of what the world would be like without "god". It has been suggested that it would be a violent place with murders being considered acceptable because we wouldn't know the meaning of right and wrong.
I find this an interesting viewpoint seeing as man has worshipped for such a long time and yet there is no peace in the world.
I am with Hobbes on the religion thing.
Belief in God is not the problem, however following differing religions often is.
Vidcc,
I believe that God was created by man to bring order to chaos.
I don't think the average man, that understands his own mortality, can live in our cruel world without a God to make things right.
I too, would love to think that my death was a transition to paradise, but my mind cannot buy the fairy tales which are clearly man-made, that offer such hope.
I wish I could, really, I do. I cannot imagine the beauty of a lack of fear of death or even an antipation of death, so that I could enter an eternity in heaven.
People often don't appreciate that there is no happiness in being a "non-believer" and that we desperately want some salvation, but we cannot buy in to silly man-made stories.
If there were some drug that would convert me to a religion and faith, I would take in a heartbeat.
I believe when we die that is it. But i don't fear this. Why you ask? it is because i am not fearing the "unknown", which is what the fear is based on. I accept the nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
This doesn't mean that i want to die or that i am ready to die, I want as much time as i can get. It just means that i am "at peace" with the inevitable.
Even 'adopting' a religion does not grant you the hereafter you desire. Your fate is predestined. Irrespective of your conduct in this life you will go where you were predestined for. :)
I read that in a religious 'tract' somewhere and for the love of me I cant remember where. I think it was the Bible, but I am not sure.
Well Vidcc, I am not so brave. I am absolutely terrified of death. Not because I fear punishment, I just have no desire to cease to be and quickly be forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Who made the post before this one? :lol: :lol:
Me, Hobbes, you don't remember do you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
Hobbes
Hobbes
Hobbes
Don't you forget it!
I hope you are not one of the nurses in the home for the demented I end up in.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
:lol: :lol:
I have your bath ready. I hope you like ice cold water.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
http://www.uwstout.edu/solutions/bgc...e-ratchet1.jpg
He prefers Sponge Baths...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Sponge Bath is gay, Boab may get more of a cleansing than he expected.
http://www.lausd.k12.ca.us/Kennedy_H...sponge_bob.jpg
sponge boab :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
To those that say "well they profess this religion yet still do bad things," ...no shit...it goes without saying.
Also there are those that blow up buildings in the name of religion...again no shit.
If man created God to stop chaos, then it must have been pretty bad. Dontcha think? :huh:
Many of you say it's bad now. I think it would be worse.
It's almost like when you get comfortable in job that always wish you had (making lots of money), yet after awhile you start complaining about it.
Answering to yourself isn't ebough in my book. There are too many differing personalities to say, "hey everyone stop being selfish because it's just not good, mmmk?"
I've seen too many folks change their life for the better, like the fella who stopped cheating on his wife.
He didn't catch a disease or anything; he got into religion.
I for one was not brainwashed. I did not grow up in a religious household at all.
One thing is for certain...if one is savvy enough, it's easier to take what you want at any given time than to ask for or earn it.
As I said before, kill the fella who get's on your nerves.
Take that $20 bill that the guy dropped at the store instead of letting him know he dropped it.
Fuck that bitch and then tell her to get the fuck out and never call her again.
When you are out of town, have a one stand with a woman even though you know your herpes is acting up. :sick:
That bum who really is hungry, wants a sandwich but fuck him 'cause he should get job. You hope he freezes.
@hobbes- none of these involves "desperate situations". They do involve selfishness but selfishness works for many.
Man is primal
I try not to do bad things because even before my belief in religion I just thought they were wrong and evil. When I got older I was enlightened to a degree about the mind works for many. I see the excuses that people have for the things they do, including myself.
People ARE NOT ROBOTS. Just because they follow the Bible for instance, it is not program code. A man professing religion doesn't necessarily believe it either.......
Why then do most religious leaders in America say that the 'Moonies' are brainwashed. 'Mr Moon' maintains that he is the new 'Son of God'. Why should some people not believe him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
As I said, only an asshole would do such things, I never would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
You have described a situation of complete chaos. Chaos is why man created God.
A desperate man may do desperate things, but a man who hurts others on a whim is not a respectable creature. A religion is meaningless to such an entity as he only cares about now and himself.
People who truly believe in religion are robots as the teachings are immutable.
Answering to oneself is the highest authority as God is a myth.
Man is primal, but he also understands that he may be the victim, and that he why he creates rules to promote safety for all. He seeks security.
So that feminist with the speech impediment wasn't trying to tell me god is a woman. :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
You say you wouldn't do such things yet I don't really know you.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
I have simply maintained that there would be more of the afore mentioned chaos if there wasn't a belief in God.
Whether you believe in God is irrelevent to what may play a part in another's conscience.
It's pretty darn simple to me.
those are often the only things that seperate us from the grotesque nakedness of Wal-Mart zombie buttertrolls.Quote:
Does humanity attach too much importance to a piece of wind blown cloth and a patch of dirt?
This is basically saying that an atheist is more likely to commit crime....and that is quite frankly bollocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Are you trying to prove the theory that only people with impediments seek a higher authority in their life? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
When you quote instances of things like this you are going to get people who will quote instances to the contrary. Believe me I have seen plenty of them in my lifetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
WTF!!?? :wacko: :frusty: :helpsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Very simple...
everyone - conscience
a real believer - an extra layer of conscience
I'm not talking about a perosn who just says they are believers. I'm talking about a person really believes. A person that really believes that their action have consequences past man-made law. I'm saying any of the hearing voices stuff.
Well, it's more a case of fear I think...Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Fear of eternal damnation and hellfire :devil:
Can you not, in some cases, ease your conscience with a few Hail Mary's and 'dont do it again' platitudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Sorry folks but deterrence is fear.
The law isn't just punishment. It's "don't this shit 'cause this shit will happen".
An individual may not care about man's law nor God's if the right situation arises. Passion for something is a motherfucker even if ill advised.
Nothing may weigh on his conscience even if he has faith based belief.
I'm surprised that many just don't "get it" even if they don't believe.
It is bollocks.... and to use Busy's "life logic observation" I know many atheists/agnostics that are FAR more law abiding (including "moral" laws) than many of the "faith people".
It has nothing to do with "getting it"..... we get it...... but it's bollocks.
also I will add that not doing something because of fear of retribution is not being moral, not doing something because it is wrong is moral
Well there you have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
From what you say...if we eliminate laws then crime will be unchanged.
You are so busy defending atheists/agnostics that you are making me chuckle. You sit there comparing some atheists to "faith people". People range from apples to oranges but your comparison is flawed since it not apples to apples and can never be. Where is this "we get it" shit? Speak for yourself. I didn't know atheists were of a hive mind. You could almost be Republican then. :lol: :lol:
Everyone's mental state, state of wealth, etc is different.
If a person is thinking of what the Bible says about getting revenge on someone when they were thinking about getting revenge and doesn't then that was a deterrent. Period.
So no you don't "get it".
Many things are deterrents besides religion but religion is still there as one.
You are remind me of the parent who fights to have prayer eliminated from schools. :dry:
Forget the "life logic observation" for a moment.
If someone put a camera on you and you knew they were watching and thought you be tortured for your non-law biding actions then you'd be less likely to commit them.
Now if you knew someone was watching and believed those things and still didn't care then you'd still break the law.
You still aren't a robot. The choice is yours. ;)
Another busy bollocks post
Hey I thought yours was shit too. I just kept my decorum while you did not....and I also made more sense than you did. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
you made no sense whatsoever...
the busy STFU is in order
What makes no sense? :unsure: Oh and go fuck yourself bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Surely if you eliminate laws then the crime rate would immediately reduce to zero... :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
well lets look at this theory directly hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
this man believes in god and he knew the camera was on him when he did the initial deed.
every day believers commit crime and god is no deterrent....why? ... because they believe god will forgive them. So I say having religion is just as likely to make things bad.....just look at where this religious world is today.
Atheism is about not believing in god. It is not about thinking crime is "ok" because it will go unpunished.