Stealth

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Originally Posted by SnnY

1. I don't have an inferiority complex. I haven't said they were saying or not saying anything about me personally, I was saying it was crappy writing.

I can't have an inferiority complex just because I'm saying a movie was stupid :huh:

It was just made in such a way that the rest of the world was used to show how great the heroes'/america's achievement look better, they didn't just save america, they saved everyone else.

Who otherwise didn't have a place in the plot.

Feck, it didn't hurt me none, it was just pointless as writing scenes go.

I never took it personally or anything, I just thought it was daft.

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I gotcha it was better to not show the scene in the desert of the ship crashing. :dry: You are nutty. They do the same shit in...not American ego films but DISASTER FILMS ffs. I bet The Core I had some of the same shit in it (but hell in that we saved the world too but uh didn't we fuck it up :unsure: )....and what's up The Day After Tomorrow. Why did Mexico have to be our savior. I thought we were the saviors...and we were supposed to kiss their ass to be saved. :ermm:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

2. WRT the speech, I just edited in this:

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EDit: actually, WRT the speech, I must have been thinking about some other part of the movie, or maybe another movie, 'cos the bit where he's trying to inspire the pilots is more cheesy than patriotic, or at least the part of the speech I can find online :blushing:

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I dunno' if that was another part of the movie or something, I've been surfing around and people (americans even) seem to think there was a patriotic speech in there, but I can't find it now.

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I think there are 2 speeches in the movie. One after the alien flashed the President's mind at Area 51 (where all-of-a-sudden knew their plans) and once when they go into that final battle where they saved the whole world when they destroyed that one ship. :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

3. Btw, you aren't saying bostonians should be subtitled too are you? :unsure:

I can't help thinking people in the US would have a better ear for accents out of necessity as they have a lot of them, I'm a bit surprised by what you say, truth be told. (No criticism intended there.)

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I was joshin' but in any area there may be a group of folk that have an accent that is hard to make out. Many British males have a high-pitched bouncy accent and most times I understand it but one time I saw a video with Lamsey talking in front of a kitchen sink and was like :blink: .

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4. I'm pretty sure a lot of nations have troops based on naval vessels or whatever distinguishes marines from the regular infantry. Up until now I never really thought about Marines as uniquely american (what the word means, not the word in itself).

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SnnY...it was the United States Marine Corps. Mmk?

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Originally Posted by SnnY

EDit: 5. "Handle" as in not having a problem with them. It really isn't an effort.

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It's not an effort.

It's just not as enjoyable, likable, or preferable.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Many British males have a high-pitched bouncy accent and most times I understand it but one time I saw a video with Lamsey talking in front of a kitchen sink and was like :blink: .

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Lamsey is Scottish. No-one can understand them. If you heard me speak you would not hear an accent you would just hear the way words are said when you pronounce them properly.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Many British males have a high-pitched bouncy accent and most times I understand it but one time I saw a video with Lamsey talking in front of a kitchen sink and was like :blink: .

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Lamsey is Scottish. No-one can understand them.

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I hear that Scottish folk have to converse on the interweb in order for them to be able to understand each other.

Feck knows what they did before it was invented.

Films that Hollywood have butchered/altered in order to appeal to an American audience:

#1

The Beach. Whilst I have no real respect for Leonardo Di Craprio's acting talent I'm sure he could have at least affectected a British accent, it wouldn't be the first time they hired an American to play a British role. Instead the film-makers decided to change Alex Garland's anti-hero, Richard, into a Yank. Completely pointless audience pandering, I just wish Alex Garland had had the control that JK Rowling (spit) enjoyed with her creations.

Danny Boyle wanted Ewan McGregor for the role, perfect, but was told by the studio that he would have to use pretty boy LDC instead. Completely pointless change but by no means the worst atrocity committed to this great novel. Do yourself a favour and read the book.

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

Lamsey is Scottish. No-one can understand them.

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I hear that Scottish folk have to converse on the interweb in order for them to be able to understand each other.

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I think you're getting confused with the fact that they sound like 56k modems when they speak. :almurray:

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by manker

I hear that Scottish folk have to converse on the interweb in order for them to be able to understand each other.

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I think you're getting confused with the fact that they sound like 56k modems when they speak. :almurray:

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:lol:

I knew interwebbery was involved.

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Originally Posted by Chebus

Films that Hollywood have pointlessly butchered/altered in order to appeal to an American audience:

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Well, it's not fecking pointless then.

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Chebus

Films that Hollywood have pointlessly butchered/altered in order to appeal to an American audience:

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Well, it's not fecking pointless then.

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I'm going to pointlessly butcher/alter you for that.:angry:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

I gotcha it was better to not show the scene in the desert of the ship crashing. :dry: You are nutty. They do the same shit in...not American ego films but DISASTER FILMS ffs. I bet The Core I had some of the same shit in it (but hell in that we saved the world too but uh didn't we fuck it up :unsure: )....and what's up The Day After Tomorrow. Why did Mexico have to be our savior. I thought we were the saviors...and we were supposed to kiss their ass to be saved. :ermm:

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The way it worked it was a reaffirmaation of the accomplishment made by the americans, plotwise there was no other point to it. As you say, the whole thing took place in america, they needed something to show it was on a global scale, you say it was to show the disaster, I say it was to show that the protagonists/america saved the world.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this, 'cos we ain't getting anywhere here.

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I think there are 2 speeches in the movie. One after the alien flashed the President's mind at Area 51 (where all-of-a-sudden knew their plans) and once when they go into that final battle where they saved the whole world when they destroyed that one ship. :lol: :lol:

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Ah, ok. :lol:

Man, does that movie suck.

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I was joshin' but in any area there may be a group of folk that have an accent that is hard to make out. Many British males have a high-pitched bouncy accent and most times I understand it but one time I saw a video with Lamsey talking in front of a kitchen sink and was like :blink: .

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He's from scotland, like cheebus says. Those people are special :ermm:

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SnnY...it was the United States Marine Corps. Mmk?

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Nah, I think it was the colonial marines (possibly the US Colonial Marines, yes, but I don't think it's the same united states you are thinking of, they are corporate troops). Had a look and Weyland Yutani (I spelled it wrong before) and other corps were already in charge at the time of the first alien.

And as for the word "marines" I think the british formed the first units that bore the name. There are still british Royal Marines.

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It's not an effort.

It's just not as enjoyable, likable, or preferable.

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If they are that easy to absorb they shouldn't make any difference to what you get out of a movie, that's how it is for me/us.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

Films that Hollywood have butchered/altered in order to appeal to an American audience:

#1

The Beach. Whilst I have no real respect for Leonardo Di Craprio's acting talent I'm sure he could have at least affectected a British accent, it wouldn't be the first time they hired an American to play a British role. Instead the film-makers decided to change Alex Garland's anti-hero, Richard, into a Yank. Completely pointless audience pandering, I just wish Alex Garland had had the control that JK Rowling (spit) enjoyed with her creations.

Danny Boyle wanted Ewan McGregor for the role, perfect, but was told by the studio that he would have to use pretty boy LDC instead. Completely pointless change but by no means the worst atrocity committed to this great novel. Do yourself a favour and read the book.

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You gotta remember, many times it has nothing to do with being a Yank per se.
It's who's popular. Hugh Grant was hugely popular with teh ladies until he was caught with teh hooker. Rob Lowe's career took a bump when his "video" came out.

Damn I didn't know the Beach was British. Didn't make too much effort to watch anyway. I don't really care for Leo movies. Basketball Diaries was okay though.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by manker

I hear that Scottish folk have to converse on the interweb in order for them to be able to understand each other.

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I think you're getting confused with the fact that they sound like 56k modems when they speak. :almurray:

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Quality.....both a youz.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

The way it worked it was a reaffirmaation of the accomplishment made by the americans, plotwise there was no other point to it. As you say, the whole thing took place in america, they needed something to show it was on a global scale, you say it was to show the disaster, I say it was to show that the protagonists/america saved the world.

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Man are you daft? The film shows aliens fucking up the whole world in the beginning using landmarks ffs and at the end, shows huge ships crashing around, you guessed it, landmarks...and all you see is "they did that just to show America saving world." :lol: :lol: :lol: Forget that those locations are simply recognizable..I guess New Yorkers should be up in arms 'cause The Day After Tomorrow really just shows New York getting fucked up. But wait how come the rest of the world wasn't shown...like the other countries didn't have problems that need spotlighting. :snooty:

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I think there are 2 speeches in the movie. One after the alien flashed the President's mind at Area 51 (where all-of-a-sudden knew their plans) and once when they go into that final battle where they saved the whole world when they destroyed that one ship. :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Ah, ok. :lol:

Man, does that movie suck.

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Agreed

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I was joshin' but in any area there may be a group of folk that have an accent that is hard to make out. Many British males have a high-pitched bouncy accent and most times I understand it but one time I saw a video with Lamsey talking in front of a kitchen sink and was like :blink: .

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Originally Posted by SnnY

He's from scotland, like cheebus says. Those people are special :ermm:

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SnnY...it was the United States Marine Corps. Mmk?

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Nah, I think it was the colonial marines (possibly the US Colonial Marines, yes, but I don't think it's the same united states you are thinking of, they are corporate troops). Had a look and Weyland Yutani (I spelled it wrong before) and other corps were already in charge at the time of the first alien.

And as for the word "marines" I think the british formed the first units that bore the name. There are still british Royal Marines.

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Uh yeah whatever.
They are United States Marines. Sgt. Apone (teh black guy, he died during the first encounter) says it when they wake up on the dropship. He's one of the first one's up and says how good it is to be in the Corps and spouting all this Marine Corps shit.
They were not corporate troops at all or else they would have been trying to bring back eggs. That's why Burke almost got fragged..he was the only company man sent there and had his own agenda. The Marines were sent to help the people; Burke was sent to help the comapny.

In the first alien movie, it was a Weyland Corporation ship and the android was programmed to bring back new life forms if encountered (it seemed like a priority). In the the third alien film you find out that Bishop's likeness was that of Weyland himself (that movie kinda sucked). Don't ask me how/why Weyland was in Alien vs. Predator :blink: .

Thanks for the tidbit about the British Marines.

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It's not an effort.

It's just not as enjoyable, likable, or preferable.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

If they are that easy to absorb they shouldn't make any difference to what you get out of a movie, that's how it is for me/us

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Well it does make a difference to me. The point of subtitles is to translate the words. I don't prefer it or like it just like I don't like movies in B&W. I like seeing the audio match the mouth movement of the folks on-screen.
If you like it, prefer it, or it simply makes no difference, then great.

I don't. :dry:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Man are you daft? The film shows aliens fucking up the whole world in the beginning using landmarks ffs and at the end, shows huge ships crashing around, you guessed it, landmarks...and all you see is "they did that just to show America saving world." :lol: :lol: :lol: Forget that those locations are simply recognizable..I guess New Yorkers should be up in arms 'cause The Day After Tomorrow really just shows New York getting fucked up. But wait how come the rest of the world wasn't shown...like the other countries didn't have problems that need spotlighting. :snooty:

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See, from where I'm reading you are the daft one. Seeing as the story was about the protagonist(s), as stories usually are, everything that happens in there is their story.

And seeing as the people the story was about were (markedly) identified as being american (goes with the entire patriotic theme) americans saved the world, and the events of the story are in there to show the effects of their action and the circumstances that propt them to act.

The particular events you have a problem with (it would appear) are part of a chain of casuality (it's how plots work). The (american) protagonists solve everything, so the rest of the world is saved.

Without that context the scenes hadn't mattered, and nor had they been in there. No matter how nice they looked, a reason to put them in was necessary, and I've given you that reason.

They are there to show the effects of their actions, to show how the heroic americans saved the planet.

Get with the program, ffs.

If you only want to see the surface of things, that's up to you, tho'. But don't pretend it's me that isn't thinking.

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Uh yeah whatever.
They are United States Marines. Sgt. Apone (teh black guy, he died during the first encounter) says it when they wake up on the dropship. He says one of first one up and says how good it is to be in the Corps and spouting all this Marine Corps shit.
They were not corporate troops at all or else they would have been trying to bring back eggs. That's why Burke almost got fragged..he was the only company sent there and had his own agenda. The Marine were sent to help the people; he was sent to help the comapny.

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I think you are wrong.

See, Weyland-Yutani are the ones trying to bring back eggs, but the colonial marines are a collaboration, as far as I know (from what people say in the movies, from the comics, from the games, and from t'interweb) the United States Marines, in the second Alien movie are employed by an alliance of Corporations/States (it seems one is pretty much the same as the other in the Alien universe) including W-Y (the united states could be the colonies tho'), they are employed to protect the Colonists (as you say) from whatever, whereas the W-Y people are trying to get the aliens instead.

Supposedly there aren't any nations left, as we know them.

In the fourth movie it appears to have shifted, I think they are saying something about W-Y being gone, and I dunno' if the army there are even corporate troops, or if the corporations have merged or something to one big government/state.


(Of course, this may be something that has grown out of the merchandise over the years, I dunno' how much of the background was established at the time of the second movie. But what I wrote above is supposedly the story today.)



WRT subtitles, I just don't think it detracts something from the experience, rather they let you see it the way it was meant to be, without you missing out 'cos you aren't good enough at the original language.

Remakes and such distorts them, especially so in the US as they, as you indicate, make movies "fit" for american audiences. Which removes elements unique to the originating culture and vision.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

See, from where I'm reading you are the daft one. Seeing as the story was about the protagonist(s), as stories usually are, everything that happens in there is their story.

And seeing as the people the story was about were (markedly) identified as being american (goes with the entire patriotic theme) americans saved the world, and the events of the story are in there to show the effects of their action and the circumstances that propt them to act.

The particular events you have a problem with (it would appear) are part of a chain of casuality (it's how plots work). The (american) protagonists solve everything, so the rest of the world is saved.

Without that context the scenes hadn't mattered, and nor had they been in there. No matter how nice they looked, a reason to put them in was necessary, and I've given you that reason.

They are there to show the effects of their actions, to show how the heroic americans saved the planet.

Get with the program, ffs.

If you only want to see the surface of things, that's up to you, tho'. But don't pretend it's me that isn't thinking.

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Didn't the aliens attack earth? How else do you show places on earth? You show places people recognize. A movie like Signs only showed in a news broadcast to give the feel of a global scale. ID4 showed worldly landmarks (including America's ffs). I doubt anyone in the states thought, "Wtf did they show a ship crashing in the desert for?"

Your reason "Is was to show America was everyone's savior."
Mine "It's to show ships going down all over the world." Who the fuck cares that a trailertrashedburntoutnutjob flew a crop duster up the aliens ass and happened to destroy the ship...and he was American.

After he did that we advised the other countries of the ship's weak spot. They still had to blow the ships up ffs. It's not like we sent our forces over to other countries and said. "Stand back we've got this". We kinda had our hands full.

If you haven't noticed filmmakers do this ALL THE TIME in disaster films. They cut to other recogizable places in other countries to give what's happening locally a global scale.

I guess if they eliminated the 2 speeches and just showed the aliens attacking America and only show our country, it would have been a great movie to you. :dry:

I didn't like 'cause of the plot holes...the Windows virus, the President's flash knowledge, and the crop duster blowing up the ship. The filmmakers could easily fixed that shit.

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Uh yeah whatever.
They are United States Marines. Sgt. Apone (teh black guy, he died during the first encounter) says it when they wake up on the dropship. He says one of first one up and says how good it is to be in the Corps and spouting all this Marine Corps shit.
They were not corporate troops at all or else they would have been trying to bring back eggs. That's why Burke almost got fragged..he was the only company sent there and had his own agenda. The Marine were sent to help the people; he was sent to help the comapny.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

I think you are wrong.

See, Weyland-Yutani are the ones trying to bring back eggs, but the colonial marines are a collaboration, as far as I know (from what people say in the movies, from the comics, from the games, and from t'interweb) the United States Marines, in the second Alien movie are employed by an alliance of Corporations/States (it seems one is pretty much the same as the other in the Alien universe) including W-Y (the united states could be the colonies tho'), they are employed to protect the Colonists (as you say) from whatever, whereas the W-Y people are trying to get the aliens instead.

Supposedly there aren't any nations left, as we know them.

In the fourth movie it appears to have shifted, I think they are saying something about W-Y being gone, and I dunno' if the army there are even corporate troops, or if the corporations have merged or something to one big government/state.


(Of course, this may be something that has grown out of the merchandise over the years, I dunno' how much of the background was established at the time of the second movie. But what I wrote above is supposedly the story today.)

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I have the movie dude. Jeez. :dry: You can think I'm wrong or whatever. It doesn't change facts.

I think The United States Marines were put in there to give it the sense of what our soldiers would be like in the future but still be the same in a sense.
(there's probably some nutjob that has problem with that too)

Apone sounded like the sargent from every war movie the US movie was in.

Regarding what the Marines were there for (their mission)...I already said that. :dry:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

WRT subtitles, I just don't think it detracts something from the experience, rather they let you see it the way it was meant to be, without you missing out 'cos you aren't good enough at the original language.

Remakes and such distorts them, especially so in the US as they, as you indicate, make movies "fit" for american audiences. Which removes elements unique to the originating culture and vision.

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All remakes do that, subtitled or not. Sequels can also.

As far making stuff fit. We have a different culture and the fact is some movies don't work here as some of our movies don't work abroad. Even our comedy is different and may not work elsewhere. However, the basic story might be sound enough to warrant a movie. If a person doesn't like a remake then you probably liked the original better and/or you weren't the target audience for the remake to begin with. Usually the first anything (including books and comics) sticks out as being the best and any redoing of it is downhill.

The second part of Aliens is the best one though. :01:

Again, our opinions will just have to differ on this.

Yes, they put those initial bits with the rest of the planet being attacked in there as background to, that's not what I'm disagreeing on.

But, the bits where people got the calls were there specifically to show that they were saved by the americans. It would have been entirely doable to leave that out, and still make the movie. And the bits after that were there to show that the solution the protagonists came up with worked.

As I said, the plot is about a specific set of characters, everything revolves around them, whether it's to motivate their actions (showing the scope of the attack- the initial bits) or to show the scope of their heroism/the effects of their actions.

While I'm sure the makers of the film thought it was a lovely effect showing the ships in the desert, plotwise it was to show what the characters, the americans accomplished.

It is an extremely patriotic movie, and it does revolve around a bunch of americans saving the world. that's just how it is, and I'm amazed you can keep arguing about it.

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I have the movie dude. Jeez. :dry: You can think I'm wrong or whatever. It doesn't change facts.

I think The United States Marines were put in there to give it the sense of what our soldiers would be like in the future but still be the same in a sense.
(there's probably some nutjob that has problem with that too)

Apone sounded like the sargent from every war movie the US movie was in.

Regarding what the Marines were there for (their mission)...I already said that. :dry:

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I've seen the movie quite a few times :huh:

I know they aren't Americans as you know them, and the united states they are working for aren't what you think they are. It's just a union of states, that's all I know.

That's how the story goes.

They would sound like americans as the actors were americans, that doesn't make them american. They certainly don't call themselves american. And for that matter weren't you the one arguing, in another thread about Galactica, that accents doesn't make people american?

Maybe they are called USCMs so you can identify with them and think they are american, I dunno' about what the screenwriter has intended, it's very possible. But that doesn't make it a fact as the story goes.

Instead, as the story actually goes, the world and the colonies are run by corprations, possibly regulated by some ind of authority.

But then again maybe he just thought it sounded nice.


And I know you said why they were there, what I was saying, (apart from saying that you had said what they were there for :huh: ) was that they were employed by an alliance or union of corporations (not bloody america) to do what you said they were supposed to do.

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All remakes do that, subtitled or not. Sequels can also.

As far making stuff fit. We have a different culture and the fact is some movies don't work here as some of our movies don't work abroad. Even our comedy is different and may not work elsewhere. However, the basic story might be sound enough to warrant a movie. If a person doesn't like a remake then you probably liked the original better and/or you weren't the target audience for the remake to begin with. Usually the first anything (including books and comics) sticks out as being the best and any redoing of it is downhill.

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Yeah see, that's what I'm saying.

I prefer my movies unfucked by some exec who thinks he knows what I want, based on my nationality or age group. Stuff shouldn't be made to fit, if it is then you get some bland crap tailor made so every muppet and his mother gets it.

Subtitles are needed, and indeed preferable, to ensure we get to see what the person who wrote the story intended, or at least something more like it, as even original screenplays based on books can suck first time round.

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The second part of Aliens is the best one though. :01:

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Yeah it's good, very good.

I like all of them tho'.

The first one is really more creepy, as you don't get to see the alien as much. The second is a splatterfest of sorts (good tho'). The third is a bit like the first, but with fancier effects. And the fourth is a little bit of everything, with an extra order of them fancy effects.

As sci-fi goes the Alien series is really a milestone.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Again, our opinions will just have to differ on this.

Yes, they put those initial bits with the rest of the planet being attacked in there as background to, that's not what I'm disagreeing on.

But, the bits where people got the calls were there specifically to show that they were saved by the americans. It would have been entirely doable to leave that out, and still make the movie. And the bits after that were there to show that the solution the protagonists came up with worked.

As I said, the plot is about a specific set of characters, everything revolves around them, whether it's to motivate their actions (showing the scope of the attack- the initial bits) or to show the scope of their heroism/the effects of their actions.

While I'm sure the makers of the film thought it was a lovely effect showing the ships in the desert, plotwise it was to show what the characters, the americans accomplished.

It is an extremely patriotic movie, and it does revolve around a bunch of americans saving the world. that's just how it is, and I'm amazed you can keep arguing about it.

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Be amazed then. It's an alien war movie. As far as what the American's accomplished, it wasn't just them it was what the world accomplished. The nutjob in the crop duster actually accomplished fucking the ship up. The thing is the fact that you look at it the way that you do when we don't speaks volumes.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

I've seen the movie quite a few times :huh:

I know they aren't Americans as you know them, and the united states they are working for aren't what you think they are. It's just a union of states, that's all I know.

That's how the story goes.

They would sound like americans as the actors were americans, that doesn't make them american. They certainly don't call themselves american. And for that matter weren't you the one arguing, in another thread about Galactica, that accents doesn't make people american?

Maybe they are called USCMs so you can identify with them and think they are american, I dunno' about what the screenwriter has intended, it's very possible. But that doesn't make it a fact as the story goes.

Instead, as the story actually goes, the world and the colonies are run by corprations, possibly regulated by some ind of authority.

But then again maybe he just thought it sounded nice.


And I know you said why they were there, what I was saying, (apart from saying that you had said what they were there for :huh: ) was that they were employed by an alliance or union of corporations (not bloody america) to do what you said they were supposed to do.

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No shit it ain't the United States like I know it. It's in the fucking future. :ermm:

I never it's America. You brought that up.
I'll just say that part of the American armed forces today is the United States Marine Corps and in the movie Aliens it's The United States Marine Corps. If it makes you feel better that although the character Apone spewed some patriotic stuff about being in the United States Marine Corps, that it's NOT America, so be it. It is the United States. :dry:

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All remakes do that, subtitled or not. Sequels can also.

As far making stuff fit. We have a different culture and the fact is some movies don't work here as some of our movies don't work abroad. Even our comedy is different and may not work elsewhere. However, the basic story might be sound enough to warrant a movie. If a person doesn't like a remake then you probably liked the original better and/or you weren't the target audience for the remake to begin with. Usually the first anything (including books and comics) sticks out as being the best and any redoing of it is downhill.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Yeah see, that's what I'm saying.

I prefer my movies unfucked by some exec who thinks he knows what I want, based on my nationality or age group. Stuff shouldn't be made to fit, if it is then you get some bland crap tailor made so every muppet and his mother gets it.

Subtitles are needed, and indeed preferable, to ensure we get to see what the person who wrote the story intended, or at least something more like it, as even original screenplays based on books can suck first time round.

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Guess what? The original will still be around for all to see. Some type exec decides what type of movie gets put out in the first place, whether it's foreign or domestic. If the movie sucks it sucks. In Japanese anime, I definitely like dubbed (but aren't all cartoons :lol: ) better (unless it's badly done. However, there are some that prefer subtitled. I'm guessing they like the sound of Japanese. Whatever floats your boat.

Quote:

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The second part of Aliens is the best one though. :01:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Yeah it's good, very good.

I like all of them tho'.

The first one is really more creepy, as you don't get to see the alien as much. The second is a splatterfest of sorts (good tho'). The third is a bit like the first, but with fancier effects. And the fourth is a little bit of everything, with an extra order of them fancy effects.

As sci-fi goes the Alien series is really a milestone.

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Yeah I wasn't too keen on part 3. I normally don't "go with the crowd" on things but that one was a low point for me.

I was also dissappointed with AVP.

I liked the comics ( I collect them) and they could have done a better job with movie.

I hope James Cameron really comes back to do Alien 5. He's one of few directors that I have faith in to make a great movie.

Btw do you think the Returner is better than Aliens?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

The first one is really more creepy, as you don't get to see the alien as much. The second is a splatterfest of sorts (good tho').

---

Alien = horror.
Aliens = action.
Alien 3, 4 & AVP = who gives a crap? :P

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Be amazed then. It's an alien war movie. As far as what the American's accomplished, it wasn't just them it was what the world accomplished. The nutjob in the crop duster actually accomplished fucking the ship up. The thing is the fact that you look at it the way that you do when we don't speaks volumes.

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I'm thinking the it's the fact that you don't see it that speaks volumes.

I reckon that movie was (metaphorically) wrapped in the American flag from start to finish, and that it was constructed as some kind of celebration of America. Which made for an inane plot.

But like I said, if you wanna' take it on face value and not think about why things happen, then that's up to you.

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No shit it ain't the United States like I know it. It's in the fucking future. :ermm:

I never it's America. You brought that up.
I'll just say that part of the American armed forces today is the United States Marine Corps and in the movie Aliens it's The United States Marine Corps. If it makes you feel better that although the character Apone spewed some patriotic stuff about being in the United States Marine Corps, that it's NOT America, so be it. It is the United States. :dry:

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Yep.

Bunch of Gung-Ho soldiers, the talk went with what they were supposed to be. Patriotism to a nation or similar entity that doesn't exist is just part of a story, it's not a message or anything. They were really nice cannon fodder too, all things considered.

Quote:

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Guess what? The original will still be around for all to see. Some type exec decides what type of movie gets put out in the first place, whether it's foreign or domestic. If the movie sucks it sucks. In Japanese anime, I definitely like dubbed (but aren't all cartoons :lol: ) better (unless it's badly done. However, there are some that prefer subtitled. I'm guessing they like the sound of Japanese. Whatever floats your boat.

---

Yeah, the original is still around, but in doing a remake you get lots of people that never see the original, 'cos the networks and whatnot decide that that isn't mainstream enough. Instead a lot of people only get to see to the messed up version.

And that's doing the maker of the original movie a disfavour.

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Yeah I wasn't too keen on part 3. I normally don't "go with the crowd" on things but that one was a low point for me.

I was also dissappointed with AVP.

I liked the comics ( I collect them) and they could have done a better job with movie.

I hope James Cameron really comes back to do Alien 5. He's one of few directors that I have faith in to make a great movie.

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Yeah, he does all right. I like the Abyss too.

I didn't even think about AvP. I don't really consider it the same as the others. Also, when the stuff on her arms shifted arms between cuts near the end of the movie, that kinda' annoyed the feck out of me.

Quote:

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Btw do you think the Returner is better than Aliens?

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ATM, I think I'd say Aliens was better. Don't think either of them would be on my top ten tho'.

Like I said, that list changes depending on my mood, and so forth.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

I'm thinking the it's the fact that you don't see it that speaks volumes.

I reckon that movie was (metaphorically) wrapped in the American flag from start to finish, and that it was constructed as some kind of celebration of America. Which made for an inane plot.

But like I said, if you wanna' take it on face value and not think about why things happen, then that's up to you.

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I know how it was marketed. Everyone in America knows....
---
It came out on Independence Day (we fought for the independence from the British and won it), the 4th of July.
The movie was dubbed ID4.
It's a war movie but transfer this patriotism in a fight against aliens.
---
...so of course patriotism in it. This inane plot, the focus, though was the fight against aliens, not that America is better than anybody, or America saves the world with a phone call ffs. It's fucking marketing.

Film execs love to transfer some real shit to this time period. I wonder if they'll a movie called The 6-Year War or The Civil War and it be about aliens.
You see other countries weren't the focus in this movie. just a backdrop to show it globally

The TV show CSI, when cutting in from commercial, shows a moving helicopter view cityscape of the Las Vegas Strip...yet I've seen maybe 3 episodes all these years of the team actually on the Strip. In almost all cases they are in the lab or at a crime scene elsewhere. The audience is given this view to give the feeling and reminder that this is Bright Lights, Big City Vegas....and it works.

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No shit it ain't the United States like I know it. It's in the fucking future. :ermm:

I never it's America. You brought that up.
I'll just say that part of the American armed forces today is the United States Marine Corps and in the movie Aliens it's The United States Marine Corps. If it makes you feel better that although the character Apone spewed some patriotic stuff about being in the United States Marine Corps, that it's NOT America, so be it. It is the United States. :dry:

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Yep.

Bunch of Gung-Ho soldiers, the talk went with what they were supposed to be. Patriotism to a nation or similar entity that doesn't exist is just part of a story, it's not a message or anything. They were really nice cannon fodder too, all things considered.

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Exactly, and that nation is The United States and they are the Marine Corps of The United States and a speech is given to that effect.

Exactly. I agree.

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Guess what? The original will still be around for all to see. Some type exec decides what type of movie gets put out in the first place, whether it's foreign or domestic. If the movie sucks it sucks. In Japanese anime, I definitely like dubbed (but aren't all cartoons :lol: ) better (unless it's badly done. However, there are some that prefer subtitled. I'm guessing they like the sound of Japanese. Whatever floats your boat.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Yeah, the original is still around, but in doing a remake you get lots of people that never see the original, 'cos the networks and whatnot decide that that isn't mainstream enough. Instead a lot of people only get to see to the messed up version.

And that's doing the maker of the original movie a disfavour.

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Really? Many times the writer of the original movie signs off on the remake. Sometimes they even get the same director and I really don't see an original made 5 years-ago being released in the movie theater. Also the networks kinda hafta decide what to show....it's there job. :blink: People can see any version they want. It's available for rental annnnd cable TV. It's how I saw the original of Vanilla Sky which I kinda liked better (probably because it was simply different) but either way they both sucked.

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Yeah I wasn't too keen on part 3. I normally don't "go with the crowd" on things but that one was a low point for me.

I was also dissappointed with AVP.

I liked the comics ( I collect them) and they could have done a better job with movie.

I hope James Cameron really comes back to do Alien 5. He's one of few directors that I have faith in to make a great movie.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Yeah, he does all right. I like the Abyss too.

I didn't even think about AvP. I don't really consider it the same as the others. Also, when the stuff on her arms shifted arms between cuts near the end of the movie, that kinda' annoyed the feck out of me.

---

Quote:

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Btw do you think the Returner is better than Aliens?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

ATM, I think I'd say Aliens was better. Don't think either of them would be on my top ten tho'.

Like I said, that list changes depending on my mood, and so forth.

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I can honestly say that Aliens is one of my top ten movies of all time. Imo the Returner doesn't come close although it was refreshing for Japanese movie. It's action and story don't compare and loved the twist at the end of Aliens with the Queen and the redemption (in Ripley's eyes) of the android since the first movie.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Many British males have a high-pitched bouncy accent and most times I understand it but one time I saw a video with Lamsey talking in front of a kitchen sink and was like :blink: .

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Lamsey is Scottish. No-one can understand them. If you heard me speak you would not hear an accent you would just hear the way words are said when you pronounce them properly.

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Not true.

When you say "matter" you actually say "matta".

:ph34r:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

Lamsey is Scottish. No-one can understand them. If you heard me speak you would not hear an accent you would just hear the way words are said when you pronounce them properly.

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Not true.

When you say "matter" you actually say "matta".

:ph34r:

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Nope. I pronounce it "matter". Otherwise I'd sound like a Janner.:ermm:

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Not true.

When you say "matter" you actually say "matta".

:ph34r:

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Nope. I pronounce it "matter". Otherwise I'd sound like a Janner.:ermm:

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Oh cool you sound American then.

"Say" even sounds more like "sie".

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

Nope. I pronounce it "matter". Otherwise I'd sound like a Janner.:ermm:

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Oh cool you sound American then.

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No. I sound middle-class.:snooty:

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Oh cool you sound American then.

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No. I sound middle-class.:snooty:

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:lol: :lol:

Interesting, the guy that plays Apollo on Battlestar Galactica is British and does a damn good American accent but Brits usually do our accents..
.....betta thun wie dou thez.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

I know how it was marketed. Everyone in America knows....
---
It came out on Independence Day (we fought for the independence from the British and won it), the 4th of July.
The movie was dubbed ID4.
It's a war movie but transfer this patriotism in a fight against aliens.
---
...so of course patriotism in it. This inane plot, the focus, though was the fight against aliens, not that America is better than anybody, or America saves the world with a phone call ffs. It's fucking marketing.

Film execs love to transfer some real shit to this time period. I wonder if they'll a movie called The 6-Year War or The Civil War and it be about aliens.
You see other countries weren't the focus in this movie. just a backdrop to show it globally

---

...and they were saved by america, and would have been lost without it.

It's how the story goes. So, as I've been saying, the phonecalls where showing, explicitly, how americans save the world, and like I say, I don't think it was a necessary scene, apart from showing how america saves the world.

So, it was unecessary, and kinda' silly, except as a statement about america coming through.

Quote:

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]Exactly, and that nation is The United States and they are the Marine Corps of The United States and a speech is given to that effect.

---

However, it's not the same kind of patriotism/america saves the world thing as in ID4.

As we've already established, it ain't america. And it isn't a celebration of american greatness or somesuch.

Just a good movie without any silliness.

Quote:

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Many times the writer of the original movie signs off on the remake. Sometimes they even get the same director and I really don't see an original made 5 years-ago being released in the movie theater. Also the networks kinda hafta decide what to show....it's there job. :blink: People can see any version they want. It's available for rental annnnd cable TV. It's how I saw the original of Vanilla Sky which I kinda liked better (probably because it was simply different) but either way they both sucked.

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I dunno' how often the writer or director of the original has a say in new movie, it's my understanding it's the holder of the rights to the movie that signs off on the deal, and that would be the studio that commissioned the script or something, I think.

The problem with it, anyway, is that, in the process of getting the movie through the whole machinery in Hollywood people end up compromising. What starts off as good intentions and a good story ends up as something else thanks to the people holding the money.

Sure, it's a lucky break for some when it comes to earning money, but the story gets lost. And they'd still be earning some money, those five years ago, if some exec somewhere hadn't decided that the movie wasn't suitable for their audience. It really doesn't need to take five years for a movie to be "discovered".


As for the Returner, I like the cult factor of it, the way people talk and act, and the way the story was written.

And some of the special effects, like the planes, are something you hardly ever get to see outside of animated film.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

...and they were saved by america, and would have been lost without it.

It's how the story goes. So, as I've been saying, the phonecalls where showing, explicitly, how americans save the world, and like I say, I don't think it was a necessary scene, apart from showing how america saves the world.

So, it was unecessary, and kinda' silly, except as a statement about america coming through.

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Why was it unnecessary? 'Cause The United States made the phone calls? :huh: I also had it a little wrong. Randy Quaid (quite obviously) flew a jet not a crop duster (I mixed up his job) and The Prez made the one speech in the movie before going into the final battle....

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Originally Posted by The President in ID4

Good morning,

In less than an hour aircraft from here will be joined with others from around the world and you will be launching the largest aerial battle in the history of mankind....
Mankind. That word should have new meaning for all of us today.
We can no longer be consumed by our petty differences anymore.
We will be united in our common interests.
Perhaps it's fate that today is the 4th of July and you will once again be fighting for our freedom..not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution, but from anihilation.
We're fighting for our right to live...to exist.
And should we win the day, the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday but as the day when the world declared in one voice we will not go quietly into the night. We will not vanish without a fight.
We're going to live on. We're going to survive.
Today we celebrate our Independence Day.

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In the middle of the movie at Area 51 they figured out how to fuck the alien shields and used morse code to transmit the plans (to Iraq, among other places) for a worldwide airstrike it. Needless to say, they were, as you say delighted. It seemed mainlt because no one had been talking to each other. Near the end, some Africans were shown against the backdrop of a downship and 2 more foreign places.
Go those Americans!!!!! They shot down all the ships in the world.

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]Exactly, and that nation is The United States and they are the Marine Corps of The United States and a speech is given to that effect.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

However, it's not the same kind of patriotism/america saves the world thing as in ID4.

As we've already established, it ain't america. And it isn't a celebration of american greatness or somesuch.

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True, it's just The United States Marine Corps spouting off how great it is to be in the United States Marine Corps.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Just a good movie without any silliness.

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I know man. Why can't they make war movies without that patriotism shit.

Quote:

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Many times the writer of the original movie signs off on the remake. Sometimes they even get the same director and I really don't see an original made 5 years-ago being released in the movie theater. Also the networks kinda hafta decide what to show....it's there job. :blink: People can see any version they want. It's available for rental annnnd cable TV. It's how I saw the original of Vanilla Sky which I kinda liked better (probably because it was simply different) but either way they both sucked.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

I dunno' how often the writer or director of the original has a say in new movie, it's my understanding it's the holder of the rights to the movie that signs off on the deal, and that would be the studio that commissioned the script or something, I think.

The problem with it, anyway, is that, in the process of getting the movie through the whole machinery in Hollywood people end up compromising. What starts off as good intentions and a good story ends up as something else thanks to the people holding the money.

Sure, it's a lucky break for some when it comes to earning money, but the story gets lost. And they'd still be earning some money, those five years ago, if some exec somewhere hadn't decided that the movie wasn't suitable for their audience. It really doesn't need to take five years for a movie to be "discovered".

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No 'cause the movie came out 5 years ago. If people did or didn't watch it then that's happened. Movies don't get made then sit in a can for 5 years. They are "discovered" usually within a year after they are made. It is called a release. Just 'cause you, SnnY, thinks Amelie is great and maybe some of us over don't has nothing to do with discovery. It's marketing and word-of-mouth. WOM is how I saw The Sixth Sense. The movie flew under my radar commercial wise..as did Frailty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

As for the Returner, I like the cult factor of it, the way people talk and act, and the way the story was written.

And some of the special effects, like the planes, are something you hardly ever get to see outside of animated film.

---

I liked it for same reasons. I don't normally see Japanese flicks with good special effects like that but it wasn't unique when looking at it from a worldly scale of sci-fi movies.

It had plot holes too but hell everyone makes movies with flaws.

For crying out loud, the way the plot is set up, they first hit you with the patriotism, and then they have america save the world, and the rest of the world doesn't have a chance, so it's up to america to save them.

It's how the movie is written, and I don't see how you can argue about that.
The plot says introduces american characters and the patriotic theme, and then america saves the world. Had they avoided the bits where americans contact the rest of the world and saves it, and just kept the bits in where the saucers are downed, I'd have agreed with you on it being more of a background thing.

But, by making it as they did, they did have america save the (helpless) world, and they did say that america was great.


It's a big-ass ego movie of epic proportions.



As for war movies, with patriotism, when it's the patriotism of the characters in the story that's one thing, but having an entire plot geared up as a patriotic statement makes it another.

That's why the patriotism of the characters in Aliens doesn't matter, but why the patriotism of ID4 makes it a bad story.

Different levels.


As for when movies come out, it is quite possible to release foreign flicks straight away, the companies are well aware of good foreign movies, they can't possible avoid to be, as they've got TVs and DVD players just like the rest of us, and probably good connections to tell them what sells abroad. The only problem is that the people in charge aren't willing to put any money into showing them.

Instead they take their time, 'til they can develop the idea- adapt it to an american audience, or until someone has done the developing for them.

They could have shown it straight away, but instead they muck about with remakes, 'cos they don't reckon people are clever enough to get it or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

For crying out loud, the way the plot is set up, they first hit you with the patriotism, and then they have america save the world, and the rest of the world doesn't have a chance, so it's up to america to save them.

---

First they hit you with patriotism? When? His speech, the name of the movie? What else? The whistlin' dixie during the speech?

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It's how the movie is written, and I don't see how you can argue about that.
The plot says introduces american characters and the patriotic theme, and then america saves the world. Had they avoided the bits where americans contact the rest of the world and saves it, and just kept the bits in where the saucers are downed, I'd have agreed with you on it being more of a background thing. But, by making it as they did, they did have america save the (helpless) world, and they did say that america was great.

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Oh no doubt there's patriotism. However, you have a problem with it 'cause you're not from here and have an inferiority complex. This is evidenced by the fact that, in the movie, you have a problem with America giving pivotal advice to foreign nations during a time of worldwide crisis.
"God forbid America help do shit." :dry:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

As for war movies, with patriotism, when it's the patriotism of the characters in the story that's one thing, but having an entire plot geared up as a patriotic statement makes it another.

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Really? I thought the plot was aliens attacking earth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

That's why the patriotism of the characters in Aliens doesn't matter, but why the patriotism of ID4 makes it a bad story.

Different levels.

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It is different levels. In Aliens, The United States Marine Corps didn't have to rally a nation or for that matter their nation or world wasn't attacked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

As for when movies come out, it is quite possible to release foreign flicks straight away, the companies are well aware of good foreign movies, they can't possible avoid to be, as they've got TVs and DVD players just like the rest of us, and probably good connections to tell them what sells abroad. The only problem is that the people in charge aren't willing to put any money into showing them.

Instead they take their time, 'til they can develop the idea- adapt it to an american audience, or until someone has done the developing for them.

They could have shown it straight away, but instead they muck about with remakes, 'cos they don't reckon people are clever enough to get it or something.

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...or the movie simply sucks and won't make money. :ohmy:

Oh man!!! Don't most American movies come out in other countries..later.

Almost every foreign film that is remade has already come out over here by the time a remake is made soooo WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!! :blink:

Oh and SnnY, I forgot to add.....

The United States Marine Corps in the movie Aliens are all from the United States Of America....but I'm sure you knew that. :lol: :lol: :lol:

ID4 is a vile, repellent, vomit-worthy orgy of Patriotic Shlock appealing to the lowest common denominator. Anyone who argues otherwise is most likely blinded by the red, white and blue that dominates the film or has a hardon for Jeff Goldblum.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

ID4 is a vile, repellent, vomit-worthy orgy of Patriotic Shlock appealing to the lowest common denominator. Anyone who argues otherwise is most likely blinded by the red, white and blue that dominates the film or has a hardon for Jeff Goldblum.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Couldn't have said it better myself :01:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

An entertaining movie through and through would be Aliens but that has patriotism too. Hell it does have the Marines fighting in it.

We just look at it as the Marines in the future and not "the US is the best and PWNS!!111OMG lOL!11!".

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I didn't really see much needless patriotism in Aliens, certainly not the ID4 cloying variety. But the marines are set up to act all macho in a gung-ho American way so as to make the aliens seem more terrifying in the film when they tear the marines apart with ease.

Ripley, our hero, doesn't give a shit about countries (or corporations which seem to have more control in the future anyhows). She just wants to save lives and kick alien ass.

If I had to produce an American Schlock Meter for both films to compare them it would read like this:

Aliens:http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif

ID4: http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

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Originally Posted by Busyman

An entertaining movie through and through would be Aliens but that has patriotism too. Hell it does have the Marines fighting in it.

We just look at it as the Marines in the future and not "the US is the best and PWNS!!111OMG lOL!11!".

---

I didn't really see much needless patriotism in Aliens, certainly not the ID4 cloying variety. But the marines are set up to act all macho in a gung-ho American way so as to make the aliens seem more terrifying in the film when they tear the marines apart with ease.

Ripley, our hero, doesn't give a shit about countries (or corporations which seem to have more control in the future anyhows). She just wants to save lives and kick alien ass.

If I had to produce an American Schlock Meter for both films to compare them it would read like this:

Aliens:http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif

ID4: http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif http://www.utmostchristianwriters.co...rican-flag.gif

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I agree and just wish that the American soldiers in the movie would have stopped acting like American soldiers and Apone wouldn't have sprouted off that silliness about it being good to be in the United States Marine Corps.

ID4 could have done without the speech about mankind and had France come with the solution. I mean come on..."God forbid America do feck all".

:offtopic: :lol: Saw stealth didn't think much of it,some nice special effects,poor storyline.
Love the way topics wander off track :lol:

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Originally Posted by gripper103.2

:offtopic: :lol: Saw stealth didn't think much of it,some nice special effects,poor storyline.
Love the way topics wander off track :lol:

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Do you think Stealth (being the shit movie everyone says it is) would have gotten to 100+ posts? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by gripper103.2

:offtopic: :lol: Saw stealth didn't think much of it,some nice special effects,poor storyline.
Love the way topics wander off track :lol:

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Do you think Stealth (being the shit movie everyone says it is) would have gotten to 100+ posts? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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No, like I said I love the way these converations develop and wander off at a tangent,my off topic was meant to be a light hearted poke,carry on regardless,never started a topic that sparked so many post,perhaps they could make it a sticky :lol: :lol: :lol:

STEALTH scored 12% on rottentomatoes.com, meaning approx. 1 out of 10 professional critics thought it was good.

this is what populist filmmaking gets you. the studios collect data on what scores well at the box office, what sells on dvd, they consult their marketing experts, they do screenings for test audiences and then re-edit movies based on the audience's reactions... and you end up with movies that play out like a crappy rehash of Top Gun mixed with a crappy non-interactive video game.