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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
When we were regularly getting checked, the gaurd dropped the rifle slung over her shoulder :yikes: (and a crapping yer pants smiley for good measure). That second or two when it was bouncing on the ground was pretty intense. Not to mention if as you say, someone took the oportunity to use that gun.
I really would prefer not to have my childs life in jeopardy just so someone else can feel they are protecting me :rolleyes:
TD
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
Fan-tastic
lol thank you
You know what I think is a brilliant idea?
Rubber bullets.
A few months ago in Norwich a guy was shot 7 times with rubber bullets, they imobalised him but he only suffered bruising.
Security and police the world over should only carry rubber bullet firing guns.
These things hurt, if you're hit in the leg you wont continue to run but no serious harm will come to you.
So why not use them more?
Although it's still a weapon introduced into the public domain.
Jonno :cool:
You just have a thing about rubber tho... :unsure:
Those are all fun and games 'til someone loses an eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
I hear that if you get hit in the eye with one it bursts like a teensy weensy balloon.
Heck, they aren't strictly speaking non-lethal at all, more like "less lethal".
A bad headshot can still kill you.
Yes I know that Mr.S , but something like 80% of bullet wounds are body shots, a gunshot to the stomach will kill you slowly, a rubber bullet will simply bruise you.
I mean come on, even a decent .22 rifle could kill you if shot in the head :rolleyes:
It's all about reducing the risk and I'm saying if they HAVE to have armed guards, arm them with rubber bullets................and gimp masks :ph34r:
Bring out the gimp.............teh gimps sleeping :ph34r:
Jonno :cool:
Paintballs
Paint yer own, bawbag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Why dont we allow the terrorists to legally walk around with guns. That way we would know who to avoid.:blink:
It's a hot day. siesta time I think.:cry:
How about something like the microwave ray thingie?
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/images/edge2.jpg
link
(It's prolly still lethal to someone with a heart condition, just like tasers are. And that foam and netting stuff can smother you.)
I think the Active Denial System is already in use by top politicians.:huh:
Rafi
Don't you think that perhaps you are viewing this back to front. Surely you feel secure with heavy security because you are surrounded by people that want to attack you. We are not surrounded by people who want to attack us hence armed guards at every cafe is wild overkill (if you will pardon the pun) and a hugely unnecessary expense.
I, for one, would like my country to remain somewhere where I am free to roam at will and where the only danger in a cafe is a bad cup of tea. The handful of deranged psychos that have set up shop in London will be caught and will make radical Islam an even more unacceptable bad joke to young British Muslims.
With regards Israel, I would visit quite happily. Although not my particular faith, it would nevertheless be interesting to see the historical sites.
My ex spent almost a year there back in 78 and enjoyed the country and the people immensely, although she did come back less than impressed with Hassidic Jews whom she found rude and overbearing. I guess it just shows that all extremes are a pain in the butt no matter which side they are on.
Apologies in advance if you are a Hassidic Jew Rafi. :blushing:
:lol: Don't you worry Biggles, I AM NOT a Hassidic Jew... they are them people with Peot (the dangling hair near the ears), those silly black hats, and dance to kiddy music..... :lol:
In fact, the Hareydim Jews are even worse... They are everything the Hassidic Jews are, plus they are the ones settling in the Palestinian territories.........
But back to the subject:
We are surrounded by people that hate us, you are not surrounded, but are carefully watched by many people WANTING to attack you...
Anyway, it's actually very difficult to determine the next attack in Europe, simply because the countries who were attacked have so many Muslims in them, they are not aware of the dangers in not "monitoring" them (not that I'm saying do that just to Muslims - there are plenty Jews wanting to attack Arabs and are caught weekly..).
That's why I think places are more dangerouse - the denial of acceptance that you are not as safe as before.
P.S: Go visit the Old City of Jerusalem.. amazing place. Plenty of places up north too - Akko (Acre), Tiberias, Gamla and many more - look 'em up on Google you'll find them easy :)
Old city of Jeruselem, one of the reasons that the jews are hated.. you know, demolishing someone elses houses so that the state can build more jewish homes..
Think i'll give it a miss, thanks all the same.
Terrorists come in all shapes sizes creeds and races; just because the islamic ones are getting a bad press, you shouldnt forget the Christian ones or indeed the Jewish.
We live in the free world, we will not live in a police state, our forefathers fought for our freedom and it will not be taken from us by cowardly pathetic little insignificant........I was gonna say people but terrorists are not human, they are slime.
As someone said earlier in this thread I think.......to guard every train bus, cafe and shop is admitting you are afraid and therefore bowing down to terrorists.
The WW2 ceremony today held in london with loads of important people , most of the royal family and the prime minister in light of recent events just goes to show we will not live in fear or change our plans because of fear.
We in the free world will remain free :01:
Jonno :cool:
And if someone won't agree with that, then let's blast them with microwaves till they do. :01:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
Well I have no problem with an upgraded security presence.
For instance, in bad areas that fit Tikibonbon's "demographic" having more police patrol the areas.
Our subway system for instance has Metro cops in full view everytime I go there. However, they are not bothering anyone by being there.
I disagree with guarding every bus, train, etc. but I agree with more security than before.
You can do it without being a police state. To my knowledge Israel is not one.
Israel just happens to be like Microsoft.
Mmmmkay... :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Not content to have armed security guards on every street corner and in every shop/bus/train....
In your ideal world you now want the movements and presumably the actions, associations and communications of all Muslim and non-Muslim people alike, to be "monitored"...
http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/m...ic/bb6-eye.gif
Do you want to live in a society where you are constantly under suspicion?? :unsure:
WTF?? :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Why do you think demolishing houses of terrorists gives money to building Jewish homes in a place with no room for them anyway?? :blink: :blink:
And I can't seem to recall the last suicide bomber who happened to be a Jew :blink:
@Jonno: Do you honestly think that having more security to catch maniacs is giving in to them?? Giving in to them would be letting them run free in the streets lurking and trying to blow you up again.
@Busyman: Israel is not a police state. There are too many different peoples to become a police state.
@colin: My ideal world would be a world where you wouldn't need any security, no poverty, equality in all areas, and no need to double think when you are planning to travel a bus, plus no need to go into the army and fight (which is where I will be in 2 and a half years :( ).
Then come ta DisneyWuld!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
It's da bestest!!!
l take it this is the Israeli definition of terrorist, ie: a Palestinian intending to live on Palestinian land coveted by Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
It's rare to get a balanced view of the situation in the Middle East from an Israeli, you come close at times Tralala, but at other times you exhibit a complete misunderstanding of what really goes on. l take it from your comment about joining the army in two and a half years that you are still young, so there's hope for you yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.palestinemonitor.org/updates/israel_emptying_jerusalem_of_palestinians.htm
That's a rather sweeping statement. I find it very hard to believe that ALL those people were terrorists. By that statement, anyone living in Israel who is not Jewish would be a terrorist. That is totally untrue.Quote:
Why do you think demolishing houses of terrorists gives money to building Jewish homes in a place with no room for them anyway?? :blink: :blink:
Not all terrorists are suicide bombers. I think if you looked at it from an Arab point of view, you would see things very differently. How many Arabs living in and around Israel have to deal with the fear of being searched, harrassed, detained for questioning, or worse, shot, simply because of the colour of their skin or the religion they practice? Law abiding people, just trying to go about their lives everyday. All for your safety. But what about theirs? To them, you are the terrorists.Quote:
And I can't seem to recall the last suicide bomber who happened to be a Jew :blink:
How many maniacs do you think we have living in the streets???? The last time a terrorist attack happened in London, (I'll use that example, as it is the most recent,) was during the IRA attacks of the 70's. I don't see that they're lurking in the streets waiting to blow us up.Quote:
@Jonno: Do you honestly think that having more security to catch maniacs is giving in to them?? Giving in to them would be letting them run free in the streets lurking and trying to blow you up again.
Yes, having more security is giving in to them. When we are too afraid to go about our lives in freedom as we always have, then terrorists have won. When we are suspicious of people just because of how they look, they have succeeded. When we are paranoid of what could happen, instead of reacting to what does happen, we are no longer the free society that as Jonno said, our forefathers fought to give us.
I don't quite understand what you mean by that statement. You have armed guards patrolling the streets. You have armed guards on public transportation. You have armed guards everywhere, who can search and detain anyone on request. That is a police state.Quote:
@Busyman: Israel is not a police state. There are too many different peoples to become a police state.
Don't you think that is what most Muslims want too? A few extremists do not represent the whole. They are largely like you and I, and want to go about their lives in peace. These terrorist attacks affect them as much as they do you, because though they don't perpetrate or support them, they have to live with the consequences of these actions.Quote:
@colin: My ideal world would be a world where you wouldn't need any security, no poverty, equality in all areas, and no need to double think when you are planning to travel a bus, plus no need to go into the army and fight (which is where I will be in 2 and a half years :( ).
Yes. You're showing you are afraid.Showing weakness.Quote:
@Jonno: Do you honestly think that having more security to catch maniacs is giving in to them??
I'll bring it down in scale a bit, you get into a fight and you hit the other guy.
If he then got all his mates to stand in front of him ,you'd think him a coward, next time you see him you wont be afraid of him because he backs down and is weak and needs protecting (often like leader bullies in schools)
If on the other hand, you hit him and he stands there blank face, you would instantly think to yourself he's a tough guy and you gonna have to hit him harder than that, or maybe don't mess with him cos you gave him your best shot and he just smilied at you.
Now bring the scale back up.
They hit Isreal and it posts a centry on every corner.
That statement says "We are afraid of you and we need protecting"
Usa, Uk and several others get hit and we clean up, mourn our lost and carry on as normal.
That statement says "You can hit us as hard as you like but we wont be forced to live in fear from you"
Jonno :cool:
Utter bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
:lol: *claps* oh that was an awesome comeback, I loved the way you pointed out flaws in my post and backed up your views as to why you dissagree, well done sir :rolleyes:
Jonno :cool:
Damn you, you beat me to it. I was reading your mind again. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
@ Busyman, exactly what part do you find bullshit?
The ENTIRE post as it relates to the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikkiD
It's bullshit.
Thanks, that clarified it for me. :wacko:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
:huh: Yeah clared it up for me too.Quote:
The ENTIRE post as it relates to the topic.
It's bullshit.
Erm dude, this is like a Discussion, that means people put their pov forward.
Simply typing "Utter bullshit" is hardly a worthwhile post and has 1000 times less relation to this topic than my post.
So once again, either point out exactly where you think I was wrong or keep childish 2 word posts to yourself.
Jonno :cool:
I think the many dead in London from Terrorist attacks throughout the eighties and most of the nineties would disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikkiD
The last intelligence of an IRA threat in London was March this year..
The UK, mostly Ulster and London have lived with terrorism for a long time. As have many European countries.
The difference is the people who are targeting us, and the reason for targeting us is very clear in the case of Islamic Fundamentalists.
BTW: I dont see how his post was bullshit this time (apart from the spelling and grammer) :lookaroun
Ira have been basically quiet for a while now and altho still terrorists and cowards, they did usually warn someone, either police and media, I don't recall many ira attacks killing so many as this new threat.
But yeah, britain has been under terrorist attack for a long long time and we still continue with our lives as normal.
And the spelling and grammer are to 2005 gcse standards :lol:
Jonno :cool:
Especially surrounded by militant Turkeys as you are in Norfolk.. :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene
Oh dude you have no idea, them feathers hide all sorts of scary things................timed Giblettes for a start :ph34r:
Still waiting Busyman...........or are you busy? :frusty:
Maybe he really does agree bt just wants to dissagree for the sake of it :rolleyes:
Jonno :cool:
Great!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NikkiD
Now that I have time (since there alot that agree with Jonno), I will explain.
By having security?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonno
Bullshit. In the real world and not this movie shit, if a fella had people protecting him, I would think him a coward. However, if I hit him and he smiles, I'm still going to fuck him up. Besides all-o-dat, none of that has shit to do with security in a country. You are supposed to take measures to protect yourself. Terrorists want to ruin America by destroying monuments, people, infrastructure, and markets. They will not stop due to us smiling and moving on. If anything, reduction in security will encourage it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonno
Ya see, 9/11 because of lack security. A passive attitude does not relieve problems and actually will encourage it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonno
By your post, I think we should eliminate the Metro cops from the subway system.
In essence, WE DO NEED PROTECTING. duh. :1eye: ...and it can be done without too much harassment.
Otherwise, you curl up and die. For many folk, if ya don't pick up a weapon to arm yourself and turn your back, they will shoot you anyway.
Your post was full of the most liberal bullshit rationale I have ever heard, and I'm considered liberal. :dry:
I stand corrected on my facts, (actually an article about the recent bombings in a Canadian newspaper) but I still stand by the point. Added security does nothing but make the average, law abiding person paranoid and afraid, and I don't think there are as many nutjobs running around as Rafi suggests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
turning a blind eye to terrorism is kinda stupid as they want to scare us, and they want us to listen. if we ignore them and stay insecure they'll get louder, not back down
with the IRA we could and apparently still do keep a close eye on them. but with the current al-qaida threat we can't keep an eye on them because we simply don't know who they are, therefore an armed police presence and vigilant commuters are the most effective ways to stop the current threat.
Really? I thought a bomb up the ass of a baby makes a..Quote:
Originally Posted by NikkiD
:dry:Quote:
law abiding person paranoid and afraid.
I know I feel a little bit better with normal police patrol. Hell I liked when my community patrol rolled past (which I was part of).
I was the only person that patrolled past 10pm 'cause I thought that was when was most needed.
I think some of you watch too many after-school specials.
Why are we supposed to take measures to protect ourselves? Are we expecting to be attacked at every turn? I'm not. If you are, then you prove the entire point I've been trying to make. That terrorism causes fear. You choose to give in to that fear and feel the need to protect yourself against something that may or may not happen again. I choose to go about my life the same as before. I'm not naive, I'm aware of what can happen. I choose not to let it run my life, as I've said before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
I remember what things were like after 9/11. People being harrassed for no other reason than having an Arabic last name. It was like that here as well, my stepkids are of Arabic descent and took a lot of crap at school because of their dark skin. It was a sad state in countries that pride themselves on being multicultural. That's the way we want to live? In constant suspicion?
I don't believe in just fighting a disease. I think it's more important to find a cure. As manker said earlier, eye for an eye only escalates the problem. Maybe it's time to look at why it happens instead of just increasing security and sending back a "proportionate response".
There is a world of difference between having heightened security and having armed men wandering the street, searching people going into shops and buses etc. Armed guards may make people feel better (if that's your way of dealing with things, it isn't mine). However proper intelligence is the best way to deal with any terrorist threat. If there is resource to be spent, that's where it should go.
I agree with Jonno on this, we should live life as normally as possible. Thank goodness the cricket and F1 went ahead, with due respect to the deceased. That is the best response the public can make. We will not live in terror.
However we must also use the full force of the law to find the murderers, prosecute them and let them rot in prison, for a genuine life sentence. No martyrs, ket their "colleagues" see them rot in jail, without the glorious death and salvation.
:01: :01: :01:Quote:
Originally Posted by NikkiD
The Met just admitted that since the Iraqi conflict, they estimate 3000.. yes, i said 3000, people in the UK are now sympathetic with the Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorists.
I really dont want my world being made safer that way.
I still remember when everytime i heard an Irish accent I was looking with suspicion, when i was in a pub taking my turn as lookout...
I didnt want coppers to have guns then, i still dont.
I'd rather live free thanks, without every nutter (and i wouldnt trust some of our soldiers with guns, never mind our police) being able to carry firearms.
Nikki, you forget busymans culture where the guns are freely available and everyone has a few... Its different to ours.
I'm sure if i'd been brought up in a place where they were visible all the time, were freely available and every petty thief is armed, i'd feel different.