The Welfare State

yups. I agree, but only if it has been proven they cannot work.

I get really angry about the fact my jobless pals can go to the pub whenever they want, yet I have to pay my frigging bills n taxes and work my arse off to do it. I've even tried doing the two job thing to raise more spending money, yet was taxed so harshly I had to give it up. :fist:

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Originally Posted by Chip Monk

Like I said, people should work if they can. You're absolutely right most people are capable of doing something. It doesn't have to be earth shattering, just putting a bit back in.

Amazingly similar to my thoughts on such matters, yet you describe yourself as a Socialist, and I am a Conservative...curious, that.

However we must accept that there are those who simply cannot work and we must allow for them too. We really don't want to be the sort of society who has this attitude - "You have no money and you can't work, well fuck you." Just look at America.

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Now, that last is utter rubbish; it literally does not occur, and to that same end, welfare reform has been a roaring success; ask any liberal in this country.

Fact.

I'll just say that I love when people come around. :whistling

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Chip Monk

Like I said, people should work if they can. You're absolutely right most people are capable of doing something. It doesn't have to be earth shattering, just putting a bit back in.

Amazingly similar to my thoughts on such matters, yet you describe yourself as a Socialist, and I am a Conservative...curious, that.

However we must accept that there are those who simply cannot work and we must allow for them too. We really don't want to be the sort of society who has this attitude - "You have no money and you can't work, well fuck you." Just look at America.

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Now, that last is utter rubbish; it literally does not occur, and to that same end, welfare reform has been a roaring success; ask any liberal in this country.

Fact.

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Welfare reform in America? Pull-eaze.:frusty:

You'd think with our deficit that Congress would trim the fat, so to speak.

Fat chance.

I really need to be in office. People, unfortunately, don't like hearing the truth (a la Bill Cosby).

:devil:

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Now, that last is utter rubbish; it literally does not occur, and to that same end, welfare reform has been a roaring success; ask any liberal in this country.

Fact.

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Welfare reform in America? Pull-eaze.:frusty:

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Where have you been?

Welfare reform is a success.

That's all there is to it.

I work in Croydon, South London. One of our Goods In staff left yesterday after less than three months but he's not much of a loss due to his work ethic - do as little as possible. His position had been vacant for about four months before he came.
In our Service department there has been a vacancy for two months.
Upstairs in the Parts Dept's Admin office, we've seen two people each spend a week in a clerical job since it became vacant in February.
The guy and HR girl doing the interviews talk openly about some of the people they have seen and it's no surprise that these positions have been hard to fill.
I don't think that £15,000-£20,000 a year is that bad.

It's tempting to suggest that those who do their best to not get offered the jobs that they apply for (in order to continue to claim dole/social etc), should lose their benefits but there is a line that must be drawn where dependents are involved.

In the case of a young child, reducing benefits handed to parents would likely affect that child adversely; when uncaring parents have less money to spend they invariably don't stop buying ciggies and lager in order to cope, but spend less on bills and essentials instead.
When I lived on a council estate I was amazed how busy the pub was when everyone seemed to be complaining about having to scrape to make ends meet.

Of course, intentionally unemployable young people still living with parents are a different matter - throw 'em to the lions.

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Originally Posted by maebach

I feel alot like you towards refugees here in canada. they cant fucking speak, but they get a house, food and taken care of. Like WTF! PLus with the new rule, ($100 per kid a month if their under 6), you could fuck for 6 years and make $200 a month there, plus the fucking everything else.

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Meh. How is this bad? Should they rot on your streets instead? How could they then give anything back to society? $100 per kid/month is nothing compared to their future value. People equals money.

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Originally Posted by thewizeard

The thing is, these sort of topics cause "infighting" which is not socialist policy but more ruling class say,.. Capitalist; divide and rule. Abuse is there for certain...One should begin at the top and not at the bottom where people are struggling to survive; maybe even trying to raise children.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Chewie UK

Of course, intentionally unemployable young people still living with parents are a different matter - throw 'em to the lions.

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Better yet, use them to feed the poor and hungry. :)

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Originally Posted by ahctlucabbuS

Meh. How is this bad? Should they rot on your streets instead? How could they then give anything back to society? $100 per kid/month is nothing compared to their future value. People equals money.

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You're absolutely right about that.

People equals money right now, it seems; the problem is which direction the money is flowing.

Given the unfortunately wide-spread human inclination toward laziness, what if the children you demand we "invest" in grow up and stay on the dole, reproducing like rabbits, because they like the lifestyle?

Honestly, I think refugees probably have a little more to worry about than learning perfect English, and Harper's "child care plan" doesn't apply to them.

:shuriken: