Poisoned Spy?

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

Tried with what, bad mouthing the US? Is that a crime now?

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will concede that it may be a part of it in that if he is critical of his former country what else is he talking about? .................remember he was a spy.

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If he is innocent the trial would clear him would it not. He is not afforded this if he is assassinated.
We are not talking about persecuted scholars or religious persecution. It's about national security.

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

What do you mean by 'cross over'? Don't spies have the right to leave a country that is plotting to kill him? Crossing over, in the spy game, is usually associated with working for the other side, there is no evidence that this is the case here, his opposition was as part of a dissident group opposed to the government of Putin, that is not a crime.

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How do you know there were plotting to kill him?

I shall repeat the risk assessment

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if he is critical of his former country what else is he talking about? .................remember he was a spy.

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I make no judgment here about the fairness of the situation, just pointing out the way things are.
As A spy he would have information that would compromise other spies and their operations. I make no judgment here about which side they are on.

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It was about if a nation had justification to target spies that cross over. Timespan is of little importance. They may feel that the defector is a low risk to begin with but his/her behavior over time may change that assessment.

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They will always be treated by a different standard, there is a reason for this and they know it.

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There will always be certain people that get held to a different standard. Spies are one group. Another could be scientist that specialise in nuclear weapons. It also depends on where they go as to the level of risk when making the assessment.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

If he is innocent the trial would clear him would it not.

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Innocent of what? What would the charge be? How would you have him extradited back to the US?

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Originally Posted by vidcc

He is not afforded this if he is assassinated.

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They are assassinated because there can be no trial, what can you prove?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by lynx

What I find really amazing is the different response by the West to two political murders.

First we have the murder of Pierre Gemayel in Lebanon, which provokes outrage and Syria targetted finger pointing from the West, yet there is no evidence that Syria is even involved and there are several reasons why Western leaning organisations would have committed this murder simply to elicit an anti-Syria response.

Then we have the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, clearly the work of some Russian based organisation, with the possibility that innocent bystanders present at the site of his poisoning may have been affected, but there's no outrage, no finger pointing, merely a calm response to the Russian authorities for any information they may have.

I don't attribute more importance to one murder or the other, but the response goes a long way to explain why the West gets less cooperation from places like Syria.

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Why, everybody knows Gemayal was assassinated not for any sort of political reason, but for rubbing another man's rhubarb.

Honestly lynx, your default position always seems to be the one with the most salacious and conspiratory potential.

Actually, I meant to start a thread about Gemayal's demise yesterday, but my plate was a bit full.

I would have begun by casting about for opinions as to the nature of the intent of those responsible, but I'd have thought we'd get at least a couple of pages into it before anyone made that assertion.

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I wasn't making a point about who was responsible for the murders.

In the case of Litvinenko the UK Foreign Office specifically said they had no evidence to start any finger pointing (their words).
In the case of Gemeyal the also had no evidence, but that didn't prevent immediate finger pointing and accusations towards Syria.

Regardless of who might actually be responsible the difference in reaction is reprehensible and is a major cause of the distrust the Middle East has for Western governments.

[QUOTE=lynx;1571765]

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Regardless of who might actually be responsible the difference in reaction is reprehensible and is a major cause of the distrust the Middle East has for Western governments.

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Did you notice how Bush stood up and said Lebanon has a right to defend it's democracy? He didn't say that when Israel was bombing the fuck out of the place, and just last year he was calling the Lebanese democracy a sham.

What I don't understand is that he was killed in such a way that it gave him ample opportunity to talk before the actual death, and in such a way that the finger clearly points to the Russian secret service, due to the nature of the toxin (pollonium).

Surely if they wanted to silence him, it would have been more prudent to shoot him unexpectedly in a dark alley, and then have someone find him floating upside down in the Thames a few days later.

It doesn't really make sense to do it in the way they did, which leads me to think that someone is actually trying to frame Putin and the Russian secret service, for some reason.


Probably the CIA :whistling

It is a plot to stop Japan from over fishing. Fish now contains Pollonium and Omega-3. The Omega-3 lets you know that you are dying and The {Pollonium lets you know there is nothing you can do about it.:(

If it had been the CIA they would never have found the Pollonium.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/bigboab/igor.jpg
I have found Igor.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

It is a plot to stop Japan from over fishing. Fish now contains Pollonium and Omega-3. The Omega-3 lets you know that you are dying and The {Pollonium lets you know there is nothing you can do about it.:(

If it had been the CIA they would never have found the Pollonium.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/bigboab/igor.jpg
I have found Igor.

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It would seem then that incompetence serves our international reputation, and reinforces the purity of our stated purpose.

In this instance, at least.

Hurrah. :mellow:

This fella accusing putin of pedofilia probably didn't help his life expectency as a spy any.

source

then again he has been called a crackpot on more than one occasion here

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Originally Posted by 4play

This fella accusing putin of pedofilia probably didn't help his life expectency as a spy any.

source

then again he has been called a crackpot on more than one occasion here

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The "crackpot" accusation works very well.

For example, Noam Chomsky is a well-known crackpot, and has been one for decades.

He makes quite a nice living at it, though you couldn't tell from his wardrobe.

I found this story interesting to say the least. I've haven't bought into the "Communism collapse Issue" totally. It also seems obvious that corruption is quite rampant in Russia. Since he was investigating corruption it doesn't seem far fetched that he was assassinated. I'm not paranoid nor do I spend to much time reading into issues re:espionage. So to sum up my .02 , yes I believe it's quite possible that he pissed of the wrong people.