Got A Call From My Isp Today, About Piracy...

hi, all, im from the uk, yes its a bit sad the we have to worry that we are shareing the new files, but lets stop and think for a min, in the uk the law is they have to come to your home and take your pc so the can prove in court, that you did have this film on your pc, but they are after the big fish the peeps that share kiddy stuff, and they should be going for them first, no time for us, at worst they cut off your cable, hey look on the good side youll save money, i hear you say that ntl will cut you off, if they did they would end up shuting down, coz no one would want ntl in the uk, if we can go to the othere companys, remember it us that keep them alive, if it gets out that ntl.uk are warnig there clients or worst off cutting them off, think what would happen to them , they have already been bailed out and are close to going under, the usa is diffrent i agree, but has anyone ever heard of anyone being taken to court in large numbers not small groups that they plaster all over the news, just think off the coast it would be to them,
take a risk and dont let them push us about, when i get the call from ntl, my reply, come and get your box, and off ill go to bt or freeserve and tell as many peeps in the uk what they did and say i get some peeps to change, then it will cost ntl big $sss
with all the crime in the world they come after us, they have the nerve the have been robing us blind for years, we buy a cd that has room for another 5 songs but they dont coz it would lose them money as they could put them on the next cd, you tell me how is stealing from how.. ? :angry:

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Originally posted by REALITY@21 May 2003 - 02:05
My understanding, though I thought, given the workings of KaZaa, was that until the download starts they cannot extract an IP. So they would have to download and then pull the IP.

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A wordsearch matches only nicknames with files -- it doesn't give out IPs to anyone as far as I know.

BUT... if you do find more files, user... THEN it connects TO that user-nickname and tries to list their files.

Peer Guardian should block that attempt, although they may briefly show an ip connection/route even though it's blocked on receiving.

But in almost any case, they shouldn't be able to see your files when they do that -- so it (SHOULD) look to them like a dead/incorrect address.

Then does this mean the download never starts?

I figured if they search a file you have and find it, once they request the file it is denied, thus stopping the download and not allowing the extraction of the IP.

That's pretty much how I figured it.

I think that you all under-estimate the tools being used by the RIAA. They are most likely using private IP addresses to download files, just like you or I. PG probably does little to stop them from obtaining your identity. However, Schmiggy hit on the real issue at hand. If a given file shows up in a simple search, does that make you guilty of filesharing, even if the file has never been downloaded? :huh:

You people are scaring me.... hopefully If I try hard enough in a week I'll forget about all this. :lol:

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Originally posted by Jibbler@22 May 2003 - 18:40
I think that you all under-estimate the tools being used by the RIAA. They are most likely using private IP addresses to download files, just like you or I. PG probably does little to stop them from obtaining your identity. However, Schmiggy hit on the real issue at hand. If a given file shows up in a simple search, does that make you guilty of filesharing, even if the file has never been downloaded? :huh:

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Except the RIAA isn't too tech-savvy even today. They typically contract with other corporations to do 'copyright enforcement' -- and THAT is still often done from companies that use business lines in big ip web ranges which can be discovered and blocked by Peer Guardian. It's a 'good-old-boy' system that isn't so much efficient at nailing us as it is more like partners-in-crime. :P

If they're running 'personal broadband' connections to do this, the ISPs would crucify them -- because they're running a business off of a consumer line. However, this wouldn't stop them from getting the only-slightly-more-expensive business-grade DSL/cable lines of more common ISPs to do their dirty work. And ISPs DON'T give out what web blocks correspond to the business/consumer lines -- or probably even their ip ranges at all. So it's MUCH harder to find hostiles in those ranges, and even when you do they may be on dynamic ips -- although it's MUCH more likely that their ips (Business DSL/cable is almost always fixed ips) are fixed... even if they don't want them to be. :D

If Peer Guardian DOES have the would-be downloader in its range, they will be virtually unable to get even 1 KB of the file. The newer versions of PG are far better than the old ones at blocking extremely quick/short connections.

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Originally posted by Switeck@22 May 2003 - 22:36
If they're running 'personal broadband' connections to do this, the ISPs would crucify them -- because they're running a business off of a consumer line. However, this wouldn't stop them from getting the only-slightly-more-expensive business-grade DSL/cable lines of more common ISPs to do their dirty work.

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The ISP only cares about money. The phone company offers business and residential service too. Order 25 residential lines for your home and the phone company won't even blink. You can only force people to use "business class service" if the physical location is zoned Commercial. However, it really doesn't matter. Have we even established if these are for profit companies? They could be non-profit for all we know.

Since we are on the subject, verified hashes will probably mean the of Kazaa. Once a file becomes verified, then anyone sharing it would be a potential victim of Media Force's tactics. In other words, they would not need to download the file from you, as long as they get an exact match for a file you are sharing. B)

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Originally posted by Jibbler@23 May 2003 - 00:40
I think that you all under-estimate the tools being used by the RIAA. They are most likely using private IP addresses to download files, just like you or I. PG probably does little to stop them from obtaining your identity. However, Schmiggy hit on the real issue at hand. If a given file shows up in a simple search, does that make you guilty of filesharing, even if the file has never been downloaded? :huh:

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Not only that!
The RIAA is gonna use everything at their disposal,legal and illegal.
Your crazy if you think their not.
C'mon these people were talkin' bout are the scum of the entertainment industry.
Even their colleagues in the entertaiment industry has judged them so.
Thats pretty bad!
Their gonna use viruses,fakes,technology, you name it.
They might even use her!
http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/allred1.jpg

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Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^+22 May 2003 - 22:45--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ShockAndAwe^i^ @ 22 May 2003 - 22:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Jibbler@23 May 2003 - 00:40
I think that you all under-estimate the tools being used by the RIAA.&nbsp; They are most likely using private IP addresses to download files, just like you or I.&nbsp; PG probably does little to stop them from obtaining your identity.&nbsp; However, Schmiggy hit on the real issue at hand.&nbsp; If a given file shows up in a simple search, does that make you guilty of filesharing, even if the file has never been downloaded?&nbsp; :huh:

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Not only that&#33;
The RIAA is gonna use everything at their disposal,legal and illegal.
Your crazy if you think their not.
C&#39;mon these people were talkin&#39; bout are the scum of the entertainment industry.
Even their colleagues in the entertaiment industry has judged them so.
Thats pretty bad&#33;
Their gonna use viruses,fakes,technology, you name it.[/b][/quote]
If &#39;they&#39; are using proprietary tools or even some well-known 3rd party Kazaa Search software, they can link your ip to a file WITHOUT making a direct connection to you. But if you&#39;re behind a router, the ip they get will probably be 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x due to how Kazaa works (a bug/severe limitation of sorts.)

Even if they GET your real IP address, it&#39;s not till they test it for accuracy that they have more than an indirect link that you&#39;re doing something illegal. And Peer Guardian will block direct connections *IF* it works fast enough (at 100% aggression setting it probably does) and *IF* you&#39;re blocking the would-be attacker&#39;s ip address.

I&#39;ve followed developement of BearShare closely and used it enough to know about the hostile attackers on Gnutella that don&#39;t stop with just searching for illegal files -- they actively disrupt the entire network and crash computers. I haven&#39;t been able to determine the forces responsible for them though. :(
(The bunch in the 38.144.x.x range seem the most obnoxious, but aren&#39;t even the worst as of late...)

The Kazaa Viruses that are so popular (do a search for BearShare 5.1.1.exe or Ad-aware 6.5 (new).exe to see what I mean) may not be directly connected to RIAA/MPAA/BSA, but they may have told antivirus companies to &#39;drag their feet&#39; a little so as to let the viruses do THEIR work for them...
This is 1 reason why I don&#39;t think we can expect antivirus companies to protect us -- they&#39;d have to be actively running p2p software to diagnose some of those viruses...which the RIAA/MPAA/BSA may strongly discourage them from doing. (After all, they view those networks as purely illegal, as is anyone who connects to them...)

SOMETHING SEEMS to be directly disrupting the Kazaa/fasttrack network, not so much seen by the average user as disrupting of supernodes which route traffic -- thus occassional poor/no search results for many users. Either more and more ISPs are directly blocking/throttling Kazaa traffic due to &#39;pressure&#39; from RIAA/MPAA/BSA, or they&#39;re using some corrupter tools to directly hack the network... or both. They&#39;ve already asked for RIGHTS to legally use tools to remove/disrupt shared copyrighted content -- so I have little doubt that they&#39;ve already got such tools and have done at least limited trials on Kazaa.

It WILL get worse...

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Originally posted by Jibbler@23 May 2003 - 00:40
If a given file shows up in a simple search, does that make you guilty of filesharing, even if the file has never been downloaded?&nbsp; :huh:

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I thought that without a connection and being found only in a search, they could not see your IP. Though Switeck said...

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they can link your ip to a file WITHOUT making a direct connection to you.

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Well, how is this then, on a simple search you can see all the IP&#39;s that easily?
Switeck also mentioned...

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But if you&#39;re behind a router, the ip they get will probably be 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x due to how Kazaa works (a bug/severe limitation of sorts.)

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Odd, whay is this, since I am behind a router 192. but when I use many services my true IP always shows, even when using IRC. Is this a flaw of KaZaa only.

In addition I read an article that if someone had your IP, they could see your shared files without using nodes or KaZaa to do so, though the privacy patch may stop this.