Cows Or Humans

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Originally posted by PB Montgolfier+4 June 2003 - 23:53--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PB Montgolfier @ 4 June 2003 - 23:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> My view is very simplistic and obvious.

To liken Farmers to Hitler is an insult to Farmers and Jews.

To liken farming of chickens to the systematic attempt at genocide of an entire section of humanity is an obscenity.

To liken intensive farming to concentration camps is frankly beyond my comprehension.

If this is the thinking of modern youth I happily remove myself from it. [/b]

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I do not lower the horrific stature of the Holocaust by making these comparisons. I merely think that the controlled, calculated killing of life is an atrocity, no matter what form that life takes.

@PB: I again refer you to the following.
<!--QuoteBegin--Myself
I do not view a cow&#39;s life as more important than a human&#39;s. There is a lot more that a human can do in this world, and a human carries more responsibilities.

However, I view the human and the cow (as well as all other sentient life) as having an equal right to live. That is not the same thing.[/quote]

My view on this one is quite simple. A farmer kills livestock which is then sold on to feed some of the millions of carnivorous humans on this planet.
Hitler killed followers of Judaism because he thought they did not deserve to live.
Any animal deserves to live but by nature man or beast will kill for survival (to eat). In the "civilised" world the hunting/killing is done by a few people on a large scale.
This could be likened to a Lioness hunting for its pride. It hunts down and kills more than it needs to feed the rest of it&#39;s "family".
Who are we to argue with nature?

I will say that I dont agree with the less humane farming of livestock such as battery hens and the like.

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Originally posted by Tyke@4 June 2003 - 23:40
Anyway, back on topic, the battery hens are a good example of what I meant about intensive farming. I would urge people, whether meat-eaters or not to spend the small extra cash on free-range chicken or eggs

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actually i eat free-range, the eggs have soooo much more flavour and a richer colour, makes you understand the term &#39;sunny side up&#39; :lol:

the meat is also alittle more tender :)

but i do see the problems caused by farming, i&#39;m gonna blame the cows for not being able to run fast enough

anyways, as long as you don&#39;t have a problem with the intensive farming of potatoes, i&#39;ll enjoy my chips <_<

It is now not necessary for humans to kill.

I am a vegetarian and soundly healthy in body and mind (although the latter may be up for debate).

Thus there is no ethical justification for the continued harvesting of meat.


Humans are omnivores, not carnivores - they don&#39;t need to eat meat.

If you eat meat, you are saying that the animal&#39;s right to live is less important than your desire to eat their flesh --&#62; they don&#39;t desrve to live as your gastronomic tastes are more important. Just as Hitler&#39;s religious views were more important.

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as long as you don&#39;t have a problem with the intensive farming of potatoes, i&#39;ll enjoy my chips

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Munch away&#33;

ok, i feel as though i want to chip in here.

i agree with yourself, PB, that to make some of the comparisons is indeed most bizarre...i think that everyone agrees the "importance" of any specific creature is unmeasurable, hence uncomparable.

i do, however agree with lamsey and linda. There is definitely some distinction to be made that, the way in which animals are farmed is horrendous. I could [but won&#39;t atm] give some websites which detail some of the horrors of modern factory farming. and the numbers of animals killed for human consumption each day is mind boggling [many more than the number of Jews who were killed, incidently]

EDIT to add: @nam, yes, to a certain extent, the reasons for which the animals [cows/humans] arre killed are different, but if you consider that we, as a race, do not need to kill animals, is the difference so noticable?

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Originally posted by PB Montgolfier+4 June 2003 - 22:53--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PB Montgolfier @ 4 June 2003 - 22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If this is the thinking of modern youth I happily remove myself from it. [/b]

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PB, thats a view you are entitled to. I&#39;m a little past being called a "youth" now, but I do sometimes think "thank god we have moved on from the old ways of thinking" over certain issues (not necessarily all animal/vegetarian related)

<!--QuoteBegin--PB Montgolfier
To liken intensive farming to concentration camps is frankly beyond my comprehension.[/quote]

I think it&#39;s something to do with the battery farming of chickens for instance. They are certainly crammed in (concentrated>concentration) so I can see the likeness.

Like I said before, it&#39;s not a 100% identical scenario, but certainly it consists of a vast number of living beings crammed into inhumane conditions until their death

Actually, Lamsey, Humans do need meat. It is a biological requirement. My best freind is Vegan. I mean truly, hard core, vegan. He has to buy expensive and sometimes experimental, products to provide what his chosen neglect of animal foods deprives him of. The suppliments have warnings that say "not intended for permenent dietary replacement". Thus he has to switch and be careful, lest he become less healthy.

Thus, it is a need of omnivores. Otherwise, experiments to replace the nutrients provided only in meat would not be needed.

Omni - meaning all

we eat meat and veggies, not just one. We require a balance. This is not just opinion, but fact.

I can site studies, but I must look them up again, as my life style does not require I study prior to eating. Therefore, I do not have them handy.

i dont eat meat, and im alive

it is, however necesary to add eggs/milk etc to replace nutrients lost by lack of meat, but this isn&#39;t killing as previously compared with

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(PB Montgolfier)
To liken intensive farming to concentration camps is frankly beyond my comprehension.

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I think it&#39;s something to do with the battery farming of chickens for instance. They are certainly crammed in (concentrated>concentration) so I can see the likeness.

Like I said before, it&#39;s not a 100% identical scenario, but certainly it consists of a vast number of living beings crammed into inhumane conditions until their death

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Much worse, in fact.

Yes, the Jews were killed horrifically in concentration camps and I do not want to diminish the ghastly nature of this.

But in addition to death, the chickens must also face years of torment and exploitation. This is worse&#33;

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Originally posted by Lamsey@4 June 2003 - 23:01
Humans are omnivores, not carnivores - they don&#39;t need to eat meat.

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Sorry, I do stand corrected on this point.

Do you think is possible for a lion to survive soley on vegataion?

Why is it wrong to kill an animal for food? I could understand the sport side of it being an iffy subject but killing to eat?

I&#39;m not trying to belittle anyones views or morals here I would just like to know.

I&#39;ll pick up on this thread tomorrow cos its late here in the UK and I need my bed. :sleeping: