Us Policy Spawns World Terrorist Force.

lol i dont know why every one is making this so personal i mean come on for gods sake take it easy, and clocker yeah they do pose no threat, as any country go looking for a fight and they will, leave them alone they will not say a word, the propaganda against Iran is unbelievable, Iran has done nothing, poses no threats, infact has made no threats other then if america attacks we are ready to defend our selves, for the love of god if some one accuses america of being an axis of evil and says they may take steps against them they would invade them so fast no one would no about it :P yet Iran is all calm done nothing saying nothing, and it was infact america who started on Iran with a little terrorism of its own supplying saddam with weapons, Inteligence and money and allowing him to use the WMD they look for so much right now against iranian cities... hmmm... whos the threat?
Iran has done nothing to deserve this treatment, funny how it become such a hot target when Islam was put in its name :lol: :P

I am not looking for a fight or to make this personal just wish to swap ideas and gain new ones, if you wish to insult (which you havnt done, thanks :) ) or something then leave me out of it... i am very sensative :( :lol:

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Originally posted by clocker+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I have NO idea what you are referring to.
"Lettuce remark"?[/b]

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Originally posted by clocker+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What better way to pass secret information than in the lettuce of a Big Mac?
[/b]

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Do you find amnesia to be a big problem? Or let me guess.. you cant remember? :P

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Originally posted by clocker
No, what Clocker is after is a serious debate about the points in this thread.

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OK. Unfair treatment of Palestinians backed up by the USA for over 30 years leading to support for Islamic extremists. Discuss.

The "points in this thread" were there all the time btw you just chose to ignore them. Look at the previous 3 posts before yours (lynx + Billy Dean) if you think you can handle them.

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Originally posted by clocker

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Originally posted by evilbagpuss

You&#39;ve made your views clear in other threads clocker.

A dead Palestinian civilian means nothing to you. A dead Israeli civilian is a tragedy.

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That little bit of slander is completely unsupported by any post of mine in this forum.

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lol, definitely amnesia.

http://www.klboard.ath.cx/index.php?showto...pic=34731&st=45

The above link involves me saying you shouldnt regularly kill innocent civilians in the war against terror. You nearly lose the plot and have a heart attack. You seem unaware of the situation with terrorists in Ireland and Spain where they DONT kill innocent civilians in the process. The only explanation is that the death of innocent Palestinian&#39;s means nothing to you. I&#39;ve yet to see you condemn it <_<

<!--QuoteBegin-clocker@
EBP, I didn&#39;t have to "twist" the meaning of this post.
It started out twisted[/quote]

I&#39;ve just explained this to you... so for the 2nd time. You said he wanted total withdrawal of US support for Israel. I pointed out that he like many if us want FAIR TREATMENT. ie. not blatant favouritism and support of Israeli atrocities.

<!--QuoteBegin-clocker
All in all I find the whole concept that, if we were to walk away from the Middle East everything would be fine, to be hopelessly naive and simplistic[/quote]

See above.. and.. instead of swinging wildly from one extreme to the other why dont we get back to the consensus.

Fair treatment for the Palestinians.

When you&#39;ve dealt with that you can move onto the issue of the settlers and all the other valid points that myself, lynx and others have raised.. Thats assuming you want to have a rational debate and not a mud slinging match.

Lets try and remember that this thread is about what causes Islamic terrorism.

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Originally posted by noname12@8 September 2003 - 23:32
clocker yeah they do pose no threat, as any country go looking for a fight and they will, leave them alone they will not say a word, the propaganda against Iran is unbelievable, Iran has done nothing, poses no threats, infact has made no threats other then if america attacks we are ready to defend our selves, for the love of god if some one accuses america of being an axis of evil and says they may take steps against them they would invade them so fast no one would no about it :P yet Iran is all calm done nothing saying nothing,

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In November 1979, Iranian student revolutionaries widely thought to be linked to the Khomeini government occupied the American Embassy in Tehran. Iran held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days.
Observers say Iran had prior knowledge of Hezbollah attacks, such as the 1988 kidnapping and murder of Colonel William Higgins, a U.S. Marine involved in a U.N. observer mission in Lebanon, and the 1992 and 1994 bombings of Jewish cultural institutions in Argentina.
Iran still has a price on the head of the Indian-born British novelist Salman Rushdie for what Iranian leaders call blasphemous writings about Islam in his 1989 novel The Satanic Verses.
U.S. officials say Iran supported and inspired the group behind the 1996 truck bombing of Khobar Towers, a U.S. military residence in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 U.S. servicemen.

OK, I apologise if it appears I am attacking anyone in particular, that was not my intention.

However, if you cannot see the point of this thread, you&#39;re not looking for one. It should be quite obvious: WE, the western nations, are more wrong than they are, simple. It&#39;s time we owned up and started to clean our mess up.

As for Iran, look at it historically. Britain, with American collusion, overthrew the Iranian regime and installed the Shah. He was an arsehole to the people, who eventually kicked him out. How were they supposed to feel? You don&#39;t think they were entitled to hold a grudge? Then please explain America&#39;s policy towards Cuba for me&#33;

There is a solution to all this conflict, unfortunately it seems the West isn&#39;t willing to go down that path.

EDIT: As an afterthought, "observers", as you call them, blamed Libya for the Munich nightclub bombing, later found to have been Syria, and with no proof whatsoever, the US military bombed Libya, killing Gadhaffi&#39;s 12 month old son. Was HE entitled to hold a grudge? And did the US then bomb Syria?


:ph34r:

in the years of the shah rule in iran the americans through the embasy ofcourse gave his opresive government every support they could, even though he arrested, tortured, murdered alot of the shi&#39;ite muslims, a wellknown fact.. well to my iranian friends anyway is that before the revolution the CIA helped the shah supress the growing (whats the word) dis-content? well support for Ayetollah Khomaini and so on, so.... ummm whats your point? :P
second Salman rushdie is a Religious thing and has nothing to do with america... lol propaganda machine
American colenel hes a soldier, if this is referring to the time america had a base in south lebenon or something then sounds to me like they shouldnt have been there, military VS military, Iran hasnt openly attacked america only america in lands that are Islamic and ask for its help. again 1996 bombings of US military not civilians and secondly i find it really hard to believe because Saudi and Iran have not had the best of relations considering Saudi is run by the Wahabite&#39;s and Iran by the Shi&#39;ites and Wahabites consider the shi&#39;ites infedels and should be exacuted and so on, Iran couldnt operate in saudi even if it wanted to and i dont see how because iranians arent even allowed inside saudi only in time for pilgrimage and even then there movemnts are limited to the holy cities... unless Al qaida or wahabites accepted funding from Shi&#39;ites and support which sounds very odd to me.
But Iran did help in the truck bombing of the US base in occupied lebenon which seems fair to me considering its occupied land and all :P :)
none of this really shows me Iran is a threat, Leb and Iran are allies even the christian government of Leb call them there allies so just as america gets military support from England, Leb gets support from Iran... alls fair in love and war (apparently this only goes for the West&#39;s military :lol: )

i don&#39;t think that the history of the crusades has no impact on the perception of the west in the middle east,
but i think that the history of US intervention in the region and the results of that intervention since the end of WWII have much greater impact on the perception of the west in the middle east.
there seems to be a blindness for these strings of history in much of the voiced american opinion, failure to account for the american involvement in afghanistan, egypt, iran, lebanon, saudi arabia, turkey not to mention israel/palestine negates the plausibility of most of these explanations.
i fear this retards US foreign policy and our discussion of it for the foreseeable future.

I agree with Clocker in so far as, anyone considering an isolationist policy towards the Middle East is seriously naive.
Also Iran could potentially be a very serious threat as it is building a nuclear reprocessing plants.

I&#39;d be interested to know when Clocker and ILW think the US should invade China? And North Korea? And Pakistan? And India?

Or can they fight back??


EDIT: Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders... But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it..~Buddha

It&#39;s easy to copy these things, seems to be far harder for some people to understand them&#33;&#33;


:ph34r:

OK i&#39;ll make it really simple for you, since u seem to try and guess (wrongly) what people are saying when they don&#39;t wholly agree with u, Iran COULD be a serious threat. Just like any nuclear power COULD be a serious threat. I was merely answering those people who are under the impression that Iran is a minor militarily power and so far away that it doesn&#39;t pose a threat.
NB If anyone is about to point out that nuclear reprocessing is for power generation then i suggest you do your homework.

And I&#39;m merely pointing out that the United States is very good at attacking countries that "Pose" a threat, but not too keen to attack countries that can actually fight back. North Korea does all the things these other, muslim, countries are accused of, and more. They openly support terrorism, supply weapons to terrorist organisations, and to countries where UN arms embargos stand. They have developed nuclear weapons, threatened to use them on their neighbours .... etc, etc.. Why does the US not attack them?? Could it have anything to do with getting their butts kicked by the Chinese last time they tried?? They got an armistace agreement last time on the threat of using nuclear wepons, that won&#39;t work this time will it?

The US is a bully&#33;&#33; Look at their record. Cuba is a good example&#33;

If the United Nations is a good idea, we should use it, if it isn&#39;t we should get rid of it, or reform it. No-one appointed the US as the world&#39;s policeman.


:ph34r: