Religion

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Originally Posted by JPaul

This is what you stated. I twisted nothing.

"A war with a point is one in which one side is attempting to secure money, resources, power. These are tangible things, things of value in our material world."

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Where did I say that wars for other reasons could not have a point? where did I say that there were no exceptions to wars for material needs? Right, never. So how can you state that I said "war was pointless unless it was for material gain"? I never said that.

I said wars for material needs have a point, fighting over a man made God has no point.

It is really that simple. You have twisted my words.

That is really immaterial too me though. The only "point", I wish to make is that wars motivated by a belief in a man-made God are pointless.

You asked initially what a war with a point was. I provided an example, material gain.

And I graciously explained why I though religious wars were pointless.

If I believe in a unicorn and you believe in a cabbage, and I kill your followers in the name of the unicorn. You are all dead, and the unicorn still doesn't exist.

If I think you have neat toys and I kill your for you toys, I at least have twice as many toys and enjoy life twice as much, even though your dead.

Apologies that this is a few hours late

Happy Yule to everyone

Solstice

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

Can I just ask what wars have been conducted because of differing views on god?

I only learnt about the major wars (WWI and WWII, Vietnam & Gulf Wars) at school so I'd be genuinly interested to learn about wars fought solely in the name of god.

I know the Lilliputians went to war with the Island of Blefuscu over how to break eggs open but as they are both fictional empires I think we can discount them...

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Certainly you can ask.

I have, in this thread, attempted to simplify the subject or reduce it to it's simplest elements and not publish a thesis on the history of religion and war. As DAve mentioned, many wars are political or personally ambitious and dressed up as a "religious crusades".

It really doesn't have to boil down to a formal war, we can just think about conflict. God is an invention that was intended to create inner peace, a portal of salvation. Ironically, when we mix people of varying religions, the different requirements of the particular religions cause conflict. Conflict is the anti-thesis of what religion was intented for.

The problem is that no religion truly voices the will of God, and when viewpoints contradict, there is no middle ground.

Certainly you can think of situations in which religion has caused strife in this world.

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That conflict, which has raged for 21 years, taken more than a million lives and displaced five million southern Sudanese, erupted when the mostly Christian, black-Africans in Southern Sudan took up arms to seek independence from the Arab-dominated government in Khartoum. The denial of access to education, jobs, and political power based on the racial and religious composition of Southern Sudan, reveals the brutally racist nature of the Khartoum government.

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Here is a nice example. I'm sure it is not perfect, as there are both racial and religious elements. Just Google genocide in the Sudan.


Addendum: I found this link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm


Look at Uganda in the yellow chart. I am not vouching nor supporting this site. Just what I found when I Googled.

Thanks for the response Hobbes.

My opinion sides with your own and Swift in Gulliver's Travels*, that conflict in the name of religion is ridiculous. I still think that religion is very important in the world but the things done in its name are truly tragic and very wrong.



*I've been writing an essay on Jonathan Swift all day today so you'll have to forgive my name-dropping.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

...but the things done in its name are truly tragic and very wrong.

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This could be a little more discriminating, 'cheese, but nevermind, I know you know what I mean. :)

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Originally Posted by j2k4

This could be a little more discriminating, 'cheese, but nevermind, I know you know what I mean. :)

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I'm not sure I do, though looking back on my post it is poorly worded.

My post wasn't intended to be discriminating, just my own belief that the things people do in the name of religion that cause others suffering are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

I'm not sure I do, though looking back on my post it is poorly worded.

My post wasn't intended to be discriminating, just my own belief that the things people do in the name of religion that cause others suffering are wrong.

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Delete "the"; insert "some", maybe?

Just pluck a few hairs from that broad brush?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Delete "the"; insert "some", maybe?

Just pluck a few hairs from that broad brush?

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Point taken.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Let me make my point in simple terms. The argument that all wars are based on religious differences is at best trite.

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No one said all wars were but er..great point? :huh:

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Let me make my point in simple terms. The argument that all wars are based on religious differences is at best trite. It is one of those things which has become part of conventional wisdom and is regularly trotted out by your Uncle Nobhead at family gatherings, when the conversation lowers to a dull rumble. The same person will also tell you that the rain forests are the "worlds lungs" and that we would die withing 15 minutes if they were taken away. They believe it because it has been repeated often enough by others of their ilk, so it must be true.

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Yes, I understand your irritation. It is akin to our unofficial forum motto: post anything and everything that is against America and/or Americans and have a sneer or giggle.

Then again, that is an issue completely separate from what I have been talking about.