Is this a historic day?

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Originally Posted by JPaul

See that's okay, other than "American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats." which is just hideous.

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It's better when you can hear the accent.

Dbl post.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The result was more a function McCain's poor strategy than Obama's excellence.

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So any Democrat could have won?
McCain lost the election, Obama didn't win it.

Lovin the denial, Kev.
Repubs are scrambling to explain that this was McCain/Palin's fault, if only a better candidate was around, he- and it would be a "he" wouldn't it?- could have explained the righteousness of the Republican philosophy.

I would posit that McCain actually did better than anyone had a right to expect and American voters were just sick to death of the crap that recent Republican administrations have been shoving down our throats.

In other words, Obama would have beaten anybody your party put up.

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That last assumes Obama was unbeatable, period, which is just plain wrong.

McCain did do better than he should have done on the face of things, which indicates Obama'a vulnerability on many points - I would posit that had McCain played a better game, and let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally, he may even have won.

Suffice it to say that the fact Obama got a mere "solid victory" as opposed to a "landslide" over a candidate like McCain tells the truer story.

Bush beat Kerry by a few percentage points in '04, and you libs started with your "but that isn't a mandate" crap; must you be bitter in victory as well.

Fact is, if Obama was everything you think, he should've beaten McCain like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64.

EDIT-

It was Bush-hate and Obama'a tying McCain to Bush in every way he could (and there was not an appearance by Obama or his surrogates anywhere, anytime, when they failed make the connection) that won him the election.

Period.

:lol:

He didn't win well enough so that's like a fail

FFS Kev, can you hear yourself.

I don't think he can. That's why he posts innit.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

That last assumes Obama was unbeatable, period, which is just plain wrong.

McCain did do better than he should have done on the face of things, which indicates Obama'a vulnerability on many points - I would posit that had McCain played a better game, and let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally, he may even have won.
"Let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally"?
I have no idea what the statistics say but my impression of the McCain campaign was that it was unremittingly negative.
I can't recall any reasons to vote for McCain, just reasons not to vote for Obama. Between Palin's "pals around with terrorists" mantra and the ACORN nonsense I would say that the McCain camp was always aiming for Obama's eyes but they were such poor shots they kept hitting their own feet instead.

Suffice it to say that the fact Obama got a mere "solid victory" as opposed to a "landslide" over a candidate like McCain tells the truer story.
Bush beat Kerry by a few percentage points in '04, and you libs started with your "but that isn't a mandate" crap; must you be bitter in victory as well.
Interesting how the Repubs love the electoral college when it works for them and hate it when it doesn't.
With even thinner margins of the popular vote in 2000 and 2004 than this time, Repubs were happy to accept a "mandate" based on the electoral college votes and proceeded to unleash eight years of scorched earth neoconservatism.
Now however, Democrats are supposed to step lightly because Obama didn't win by enough votes to constitute a "landslide".
How convenient that would be for you should he follow that advice...in 2012 you'd get to say, "Look how ineffectual Obama was, he got nothing done".

Screw that...go big Obama.

Fact is, if Obama was everything you think, he should've beaten McCain like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64.

EDIT-

It was Bush-hate and Obama'a tying McCain to Bush in every way he could (and there was not an appearance by Obama or his surrogates anywhere, anytime, when they failed make the connection) that won him the election.

Period.

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How hard do you think it was to tie McCain to Bush?
His record was pretty clear and who else was more of a "maverick"?
And why is it that Republicans refuse to take any responsibility for the "Bush-hate"?
You aided and abetted Bush for eight years and suddenly seem surprised to learn that his- and by extension, your- approach was reviled and hated.
Really, what did you expect?

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Originally Posted by JPaul

:lol:

He didn't win well enough so that's like a fail

FFS Kev, can you hear yourself.

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Yes, I can.

It's called post-vote analysis.

You aren't familiar, I gather?

Would you regard yourself as uninformed as to the history of your football; never inclined to speak of events recently past.

Will you have anything to say about Calzaghe/Jones on Sunday should (God forbid) Joe lose?

Do you require that I generate an extended post congratulating Obama?

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

That last assumes Obama was unbeatable, period, which is just plain wrong.

McCain did do better than he should have done on the face of things, which indicates Obama'a vulnerability on many points - I would posit that had McCain played a better game, and let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally, he may even have won.
"Let Obama have it right between the eyes occasionally"?
I have no idea what the statistics say but my impression of the McCain campaign was that it was unremittingly negative.
I can't recall any reasons to vote for McCain, just reasons not to vote for Obama. Between Palin's "pals around with terrorists" mantra and the ACORN nonsense I would say that the McCain camp was always aiming for Obama's eyes but they were such poor shots they kept hitting their own feet instead.

Suffice it to say that the fact Obama got a mere "solid victory" as opposed to a "landslide" over a candidate like McCain tells the truer story.
Bush beat Kerry by a few percentage points in '04, and you libs started with your "but that isn't a mandate" crap; must you be bitter in victory as well.
Interesting how the Repubs love the electoral college when it works for them and hate it when it doesn't.
With even thinner margins of the popular vote in 2000 and 2004 than this time, Repubs were happy to accept a "mandate" based on the electoral college votes and proceeded to unleash eight years of scorched earth neoconservatism.
Now however, Democrats are supposed to step lightly because Obama didn't win by enough votes to constitute a "landslide".
How convenient that would be for you should he follow that advice...in 2012 you'd get to say, "Look how ineffectual Obama was, he got nothing done".

Screw that...go big Obama.

Fact is, if Obama was everything you think, he should've beaten McCain like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64.

EDIT-

It was Bush-hate and Obama'a tying McCain to Bush in every way he could (and there was not an appearance by Obama or his surrogates anywhere, anytime, when they failed make the connection) that won him the election.

Period.

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How hard do you think it was to tie McCain to Bush?
His record was pretty clear and who else was more of a "maverick"?
And why is it that Republicans refuse to take any responsibility for the "Bush-hate"?
You aided and abetted Bush for eight years and suddenly seem surprised to learn that his- and by extension, your- approach was reviled and hated.
Really, what did you expect?

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The fact you brought up the electoral college indicates your misapprehension.

I said Bush/Kerry, not Bush/Gore, so who is hung up on the electoral college.

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

I find tremendous irony in saying to you that while I spent considerable time criticizing him, you could never find favor with anything he did; your modus operandi would have been to find an "oil" motive behind his aid-to-Africa program.

In any case, we have a new program to watch, and I, unlike you, will not begin it by defaulting to fawning worship of the new "messiah".

He will do what he will do, and I will laud or criticize as I see fit.

I look forward to your first criticism of Obama, should it ever occur...though I am not holding my breath. :whistling

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by JPaul

:lol:

He didn't win well enough so that's like a fail

FFS Kev, can you hear yourself.

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Yes, I can.

It's called post-vote analysis.

You aren't familiar, I gather?

Would you regard yourself as uninformed as to the history of your football; never inclined to speak of events recently past.

Will you have anything to say about Calzaghe/Jones on Sunday should (God forbid) Joe lose?

Do you require that I generate an extended post congratulating Obama?

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Post-vote analysis? I see where you get your information, from the disfunctional republican ignorant Foxnews, lol lol lol and they call it fair a balance lol.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by clocker

How hard do you think it was to tie McCain to Bush?
His record was pretty clear and who else was more of a "maverick"?
And why is it that Republicans refuse to take any responsibility for the "Bush-hate"?
You aided and abetted Bush for eight years and suddenly seem surprised to learn that his- and by extension, your- approach was reviled and hated.
Really, what did you expect?

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The fact you brought up the electoral college indicates your misapprehension.

I said Bush/Kerry, not Bush/Gore, so who is hung up on the electoral college.

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

I find tremendous irony in saying to you that while I spent considerable time criticizing him, you could never find favor with anything he did; your modus operandi would have been to find an "oil" motive behind his aid-to-Africa program.

In any case, we have a new program to watch, and I, unlike you, will not begin it by defaulting to fawning worship of the new "messiah".

He will do what he will do, and I will laud or criticize as I see fit.

I look forward to your first criticism of Obama, should it ever occur...though I am not holding my breath. :whistling

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But there is nothing positive about Bush, nothing at all, from stealing two elections, to bankrupt the country, to do away with our personal freedoms, there is nothing positive about his presidence.
The guy is dumber than a plastic doll, he doesn't know right from wrong.
Obama is not amessiah, he is a regular inteligent man, that America hopes he will fix Bush's mess.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

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Ah, the Fox News "fair and balanced" strategy.
Your support of Bush was "qualified", my dislike was "knee-jerk hatred"...in essence- you're intellectual, I'm not.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

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Ah, the Fox News "fair and balanced" strategy.
Your support of Bush was "qualified", my dislike was "knee-jerk hatred"...in essence- you're intellectual, I'm not.

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Ah, I see Obama's been good for you already - that post was only knee-jerk.

Nice try.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

If you had been paying attention, you'd have noticed my support for Bush was of a qualified flavor, whereas your aversion to him was blanketly total - in short, your knee-jerk hatred didn't allow you to see any positives whatsoever.

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Ah, the Fox News "fair and balanced" strategy.
Your support of Bush was "qualified", my dislike was "knee-jerk hatred"...in essence- you're intellectual, I'm not.

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He's got a point like.

Hey, don't get me wrong, feel free to sing hosannas to the man if you like.

See there's you with the emotive stuff again.

Just accept that some people in your country are pleased that someone with similar political views to them has been elected.

I think I can speak for the rest of the World when I say that if the choices for most powerful man in the World are Bush or Obama we'll give Obama a wee shot.

When I say a wee shot I obviously amn't suggesting you kill another one of your leaders.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

See there's you with the emotive stuff again.

Just accept that some people in your country are pleased that someone with similar political views to them has been elected.

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Though there isn't a man or woman amongst them who can claim to know the slightest about what those views are, I will assure you I do accept it; that's the way elections have worked, all my life.

Where is the caveat that says I have to like it.

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

I think I can speak for the rest of the World when I say that if the choices for most powerful man in the World are Bush or Obama we'll give Obama a wee shot.

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I wonder why you mentioned "Bush" rather than "McCain" as the choice to be made.

Curious...or perhaps not.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

When I say a wee shot I obviously amn't suggesting you kill another one of your leaders.

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Ah.

Good one.

Boothe, Czolgosz, Guiteau, Oswald, Sirhan, and Ray - all well-known conservatives.

EDIT-

Just for the record, none of you has a case of Bush-fatigue exceeding my own.

I mentioned Bush because he's the current one. Tho' I do take your point that it was kind of a mental way of looking at it.

I think if the choices were McCain and Bush, McCain would be in by a landslide.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

EDIT-

Just for the record, none of you has a case of Bush-fatigue exceeding my own.

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:naughty:

Still got it big man.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.

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Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

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Originally Posted by clocker

Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

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His arms don't look right :unsure:

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Originally Posted by clocker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.

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Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

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Apparently he can't raise his arms above elbow level. So would be shite at Volleyball.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Apparently he can't raise his arms above elbow level. So would be shite at Volleyball.

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True, that.
Then again, that's why we have an Army.

a volleyball army?:O

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Originally Posted by Proper Bo

a volleyball army?:O

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They'd probably win hands down :pinch:

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Originally Posted by enoughfakefiles

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Originally Posted by Proper Bo

a volleyball army?:O

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They'd probably win hands down :pinch:

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That was the only option for McCain

:coat:

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Originally Posted by JPaul

I mentioned Bush because he's the current one. Tho' I do take your point that it was kind of a mental way of looking at it.

I think if the choices were McCain and Bush, McCain would be in by a landslide.

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Gee.

I thought I liked British humor.

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Originally Posted by clocker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Just for the record, the sum total of his policies is:

1. Change

2. Hope

3. More of the first two.

4. Talk to, and negotiate with, anyone at all

5. Invade Pakistan

6: Big dose of socialism/communism

7: Bankrupt the coal industry

8. Big bux to fight global warming

9: Confiscatory tax levels beginning at:

a: 250K

b: 200K

c: 150K

d: 120K

e: 42K

f: pick'em

There really wasn't anything else on the menu, that I could see.

Oh, and lest I forget-

10: Less Bush.

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Had you been willing to gather information anywhere else other than Fox News you might have been able to educate yourself more extensively.

Be that as it may though...what exactly were the cornerstones of McCain's platform?

-"I'm a maverick"

-"I was a prisoner of war"

-"Joe the plumber"

-"I'm so proud of Sarah Palin"

Did I miss any of the big ones?

---

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Apparently he can't raise his arms above elbow level. So would be shite at Volleyball.

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True, that.
Then again, that's why we have an Army.

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Here's one for you.

You are ignoring the effect of your method of consumption.

I watch Foxnews, BBC America, MSNBC, CNN, CNNHN, CNBC, and Bloomberg.

Regularly.

You catch all of your Foxnews watching Youtube videos.

What else you may or may not watch is of little consequence, but, judging from the number of mentions The Daily Show gets, I could probably peg that, too.

All that said, you've got a point - it's just that McCain has the street cred you complain Palin lacked, that Obama didn't need, and that Biden...well, then, there's Biden; nuff said.

McCain obviously thought he didn't need it against your upstart.

Just that simple. :whistling

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Gee.




Here's one for you.

You are ignoring the effect of your method of consumption.

I watch Foxnews, BBC America, MSNBC, CNN, CNNHN, CNBC, and Bloomberg.

Regularly.

You catch all of your Foxnews watching Youtube videos.

What else you may or may not watch is of little consequence, but, judging from the number of mentions The Daily Show gets, I could probably peg that, too.

All that said, you've got a point - it's just that McCain has the street cred you complain Palin lacked, that Obama didn't need, and that Biden...well, then, there's Biden; nuff said.

McCain obviously thought he didn't need it against your upstart.

Just that simple. :whistling

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No, we get Fox, CNN, Bloomberg, Skynews, BBC, CNBC, EuroNews, Indian News (NDTV), Chinese News (CCTV9) - last three all English language - on Sky.

Of course the time difference means that I don't see the later Fox shows (CNN is geared for Europe) so it is 10.00ish here by the time Cavuto is watching the Wall Street bell ring. I did see Annie on his show the other night though.

We did have Al Jazeera for a while too

I would suggest that The Daily Show has more integrity than Fox since it at least admits it's a comedy show.
And it's not true I don't watch Fox at the source...I love to see Sean Hannity make an ass of himself in real time.

McCain squandered whatever "street cred" he may have accrued when he populated his campaign with the same sleazy operatives who smeared him 2000. Nothing says "I'm going to sell my soul to get elected" more clearly than hiring the same guys who claimed he had a black baby during the South Carolina campaign.
He built his own Swift boat, planted Palin on the prow, then proceeded to run it aground.
Boo-fucking-hoo.

Obama was smarter, more focused and tougher...that's why he won.
Just THAT simple.