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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by Busyman
Well now since they don't have to learn English then this whole argument is a wash and part of the problem...them not learning English.
perhaps you should take an English remedial class because you seem to be having a problem yourself
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
And I've said they should learn English to become a citizen
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I don't have a problem with Comcast's Spanish Pack, just merely pointing out that many hispanics not having to learn English is the object of marketing gurus attention.
America is placating them.
no, that is a business seizing and exploiting an opportunity....how is that "America"
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I am forced to learn their language if I want to communicate in a place of business. Hamburger and fries please. H-A-M-B-U-R-G-E-R A-N-D F-R-I-E-S. :angry:
Well just don't go to that outlet...you are not forced to.... if a company loses customers because they can't understand then the company will fail because of bad business choices....It's not rocket science
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
perhaps you should take an English remedial class because you seem to be having a problem yourself
no, that is a business seizing and exploiting an opportunity....how is that "America"
Well just don't go to that outlet...you are not forced to.... if a company loses customers because they can't understand then the company will fail because of bad business choices....It's not rocket science
Nice shot at me Mr I'm DYsfFuckiNgleXIc. :dry: I didn't dispute your "learning English" statement. YOU read....see my statement in bold.. :dry:
Going to another outlet inconveniences me. What happens when the "other" outlet is the same? (which has happened in Hyattsville, MD)
America is run on capitalism and the oppurtunity furthers those few in that business. Politicians also make up part of America and placate to the same demographic.
Them not having to learn English is placating to them. Since they can get jobs here and have industry change to their liking their is not much incentive to learn English. They may be content to mow hobbes' lawn or do many other jobs at less than minimum wage which, in numerous cases, gives better quality of life than they previously had.
I say change the law and THEN let the chips fall.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
India has it's own flag.
You mean its still called India! :ohmy: English is the only thing that is holding them together. :rolleyes:
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
And i've said they should learn English to become a citizen...i have also said that if you wish to just speak one language that is your choice. Who has suggested that you would or should be forced to learn a second language?.
Then what is the move to make Spanish an "official" language in aid of?
If doing so means (as it most certainly does) that all public notifications and signage will present in both languages, the unavoidable effect will be that many choose one OR the other out of habit/laziness, which are both major components of the human condition.
No race of people on this earth go about habitually doing things that are not required in order to survive.
The goal is a bilingual society/culture, and the effort to bring this about is handicapped, NOT AIDED, by this measure.
This is inarguable.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by j2k4
Then what is the move to make Spanish an "official" language in aid of?
If doing so means (as it most certainly does) that all public notifications and signage will present in both languages, the unavoidable effect will be that many choose one OR the other out of habit/laziness, which are both major components of the human condition.
No race of people on this earth go about habitually doing things that are not required in order to survive.
The goal is a bilingual society/culture, and the effort to bring this about is handicapped, NOT AIDED, by this measure.
This is inarguable.
Firstly Spanish is just the one used in the example, however it is probably the one to go for because of the amount that already speak it.
Secondly I am not arguing that we should have a second official language at this time in history. As it stands the there wouldn't be anywhere near enough people that speak a different language other than English...but who knows about 50-100 years from now... English may still be the official language but it might be the lesser used.....
I am arguing that it would be beneficial and not a hindrance for any country to have the ability to communicate in more than one tongue.
But let's say suddenly we did get a second official language, do you think that you as an adult would be compelled by law to learn it? do you think that in AMERICA a law would be passed to make you put things in both languages? After all we don't even have laws where the total price of goods is shown inclusive of tax. Do you think it would make any difference at all to your life? Those that want to learn it will those that don't will not...that would be their loss.
The only real difference I see would be that our children would be taught the two languages by law instead of choice.... so within a generation the nation as a whole will be able to speak both..thus removing your divisive stance, and having a second language is not a hindrance.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Hobbes and busy
You are showing my point about "they should become us". The only division is because of your attitude. Government puts official forms into different languages because they are often complex. There are Americans that speak only "English" that have trouble understanding some of those forms. What road signs are in two languages? I live in this bi-lingual state and I have seen none apart from a few right on the boarders in TX,AZ and CA which are more for the benefit of tourists than immigrants (this happens the world over)
instead of seeing an opportunity to gain, you see an attack on your own myopic world. instead of thinking of how to profit from something you close your eyes, cover your ears and shout "nonononono"
the point about 57 different languages is complete bollocks and I said it would be unworkable.
hobbes said you studied languages at school..... do you remember much? would you be more fluent if you got the chance to speak those languages.
Your view that people wouldn't bother learning a second language says more about your own myopic attitude. I know only one Spanish speaker that isn't fluent in English, and she is working hard to change it.....why... because only government forms are in both languages and she needs English to do everything else. She can communicate in spoken word reasonably but the written word is harder for her.
Vidcc,
I read this post and I feel you haven't listen to a word I said.
When I talked about my Ukrainian friend, where did I ask him to become us? I said this ability gave him a sense of uniqueness. So I say you have stopped listening and starting arguing.
I have never stated that I felt that 2 languages was an "attack". I said it helps no one, particularly those who don't speak English. I'm going to be fine, but if you live in a town where everything is in Spanish, you are pretty much locked in there.
Why do we add Spanish as official and not Chinese or any other? If we add Spanish, we should add them all. If we don't add them all, why should we add Spanish?
One country, one official language so that everyone can communicate wherever we roam in our own land. They have done it in India, they have done it in China, by creating a single language for all to speak, whilst the locals maintain their regional languages. My Indian co-worker can't understand his wife's regional dialect at all, they met simply because they spoke the common language.
This language thing to me is no threat whatsoever. It actually isolates those who which to live their lives in their native tongue. It promotes isolated communities, like little Havana or the multitude of Chinatowns. To have the government cater to these special interest helps to preserve isolation, not encourage intergration.
You might need to come to San Antonio sometime and meet the thousands of people who don't speak a word of English. They are not striving to learn, not in the least, and I don't think that it a good idea to encourage this behavior. Thankfully their children learn English in schools, but if we allowed schools to teach in Spanish, where would they learn? My view is not myopic, I observe this everyday. People tend to do exactly what they need to do to get by.
I find this whole myopic view thing as petty and argumentative. We have a country, with one currency and we can all communicate with one common language.
I have yet to see how a second official language helps anyone.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
Firstly Spanish is just the one used in the example, however it is probably the one to go for because of the amount that already speak it.
I am arguing that it would be beneficial and not a hindrance for any country to have the ability to communicate in more than one tongue.
But let's say suddenly we did get a second official language, do you think that you as an adult would be compelled by law to learn it? do you think that in AMERICA a law would be passed to make you put things in both languages? After all we don't even have laws where the total price of goods is shown inclusive of tax. Do you think it would make any difference at all to your life? Those that want to learn it will those that don't will not...that would be their loss.
The only real difference I see would be that our children would be taught the two languages by law instead of choice.... so within a generation the nation as a whole will be able to speak both..thus removing your divisive stance, and having a second language is not a hindrance.
Why should people learn 2 languages when 1 works perfectly well. That is adding pointless complexity.
India has hundreds of dialects, but are able to unite though a single "official" one. This does not mean that people speak the official ones in casual conversation or in their homes, but it does mean that you can travel anywhere you please and still be understood.
This is simply about fostering communication, not about fearing some overthrow of your sacred tongue.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by hobbes
Why do we add Spanish as official and not Chinese or any other? If we add Spanish, we should add them all. If we don't add them all, why should we add Spanish?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Firstly Spanish is just the one used in the example, however it is probably the one to go for because of the amount that already speak it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
One country, one official language so that everyone can communicate wherever we roam in our own land. They have done it in India, they have done it in China, by creating a single language for all to speak, whilst the locals maintain their regional languages. My Indian co-worker can't understand his wife's regional dialect at all, they met simply because they spoke the common language.
This language thing to me is no threat whatsoever. It actually isolates those who which to live their lives in their native tongue. It promotes isolated communities, like little Havana or the multitude of Chinatowns. To have the government cater to these special interest helps to preserve isolation, not encourage intergration.
You might need to come to San Antonio sometime and meet the thousands of people who don't speak a word of English. They are not striving to learn, not in the least, and I don't think that it a good idea to encourage this behavior. Thankfully their children learn English in schools, but if we allowed schools to teach in Spanish, where would they learn? My view is not myopic, I observe this everyday. People tend to do exactly what they need to do to get by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
The only real difference I see would be that our children would be taught the two languages by law instead of choice.... so within a generation the nation as a whole will be able to speak both..thus removing your divisive stance, and having a second language is not a hindrance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
I find this whole myopic view thing as petty and argumentative. We have a country, with one currency and we can all communicate with one common language.
I have yet to see how a second official language helps anyone.
And i have yet to see a valid arguement how it would hinder anyone having the ability to speak more than one language. Look at the world of commerce today..where do you see the growth heading and what do you think the USAs standing will be on the international market in say 50 years. At the moment we are at the top but we are losing our grip as the wolves at the bottom of the hill get stronger.
Your arguements just look at today...I am looking at the future and the younger generation.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
And i have yet to see a valid arguement how it would hinder anyone having the ability to speak more than one language. Look at the world of commerce today..where do you see the growth heading and what do you think the USAs standing will be on the international market in say 50 years. At the moment we are at the top but we are losing our grip as the wolves at the bottom of the hill get stronger.
Your arguements just look at today...I am looking at the future and the younger generation.
There is no point to additional official languages. It encourages the development of and isolation provided within pockets of society that wish only to create a little version of home and are assisted by our own government.
It adds nothing to our country as a whole and encourages separation.
You have failed to show that having one language requires a second. Why should our children learn two languages when 1 is fine? And if they do learn more than 1, which one?
And just because they learn more than 1 language in school, why should that be recognized as official.
It is pointless duplicity.
If I spoke fluent Spanish as well as English, it would not hurt me, but I have better use for my time then learning another language when 1 is sufficient. Maybe I would rather learn a second career than spend my time learning a language for no apparent benefit or reason.
By the way Vidcc, your recommendation that Busyman receive remedial English tells me you are simply arguing not discussing as you were the one asking tolerance for those with dyslexia.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
And i have yet to see a valid arguement how it would hinder anyone having the ability to speak more than one language.
And here lies the crux of our different perception, vid.
There is no argument, "valid" or otherwise, against learning a second language; there is not, however, any compelling reason for doing so, and neither is there proper entree for the state or federal government to elevate any other language to official or "co-equal" status.
It should be apparent that anyone, if asked, would aver the ability to speak a second language would be of benefit somehow, but to give it state sanction absent a concommitant requirement (which would be oppressive) to learn it is illogical at best.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by SideSwiped
sorry double posed unintentionally
Jeez, I talk her into coming back, and she puts me to work :huh:
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by hobbes
By the way Vidcc, your recommendation that Busyman receive remedial English tells me you are simply arguing not discussing as you were the one asking tolerance for those with dyslexia.
1. I never asked for tolerance, I just explained something when you picked on my posts for spelling mistakes one day.
2. Lately you may (or may not) have noticed that I respond to busy in the same way he posts....
3.Wtf has that got to do with you?
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by j2k4
And here lies the crux of our different perception, vid.
There is no argument, "valid" or otherwise, against learning a second language; there is not, however, any compelling reason for doing so, and neither is there proper entree for the state or federal government to elevate any other language to official or "co-equal" status.
It should be apparent that anyone, if asked, would aver the ability to speak a second language would be of benefit somehow, but to give it state sanction absent a concommitant requirement (which would be oppressive) to learn it is illogical at best.
well i think that we have exhausted both sides of that .....it is getting repeatative.... so time to move on
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
1. I never asked for tolerance, i just explained something when you critisied my posts for spelling mistakes one day.
2. Lately you may (or may not) have noticed that i respond to busy in the same way he posts....
3.Wtf has that got to do with you?
My point was that the ideal is to discuss.
When we make comments, as you did, it means that this desire is gone and that we want to argue.
To argue means that we will defend our point beyond logical opposition as it is about being right, not what is right.
Such a position really hurts a discussion forum.
We must all be secure in ourselves to admit when we are wrong, or even to admit that someone else might have a valid point.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by hobbes
We must all be secure in ourselves to admit when we are wrong.
Yes, and one way to minimize that particular need is to practice what I like to refer to as "wrong" avoidance.
It's just easier to be right. :D
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
2. Lately you may (or may not) have noticed that I respond to busy in the same way he posts....
Well you are doing a shit job. I considered myself rather mild (at least to some member's liking) in this thread. You act as if someone is attacking your posts when they aren't. You are disputing points that people agree on. If they say it again it doesn't mean you haven't said it.
Remedial class is on you little buddy.
Keeping trying to respond the way you think I post. You are vidcc and I am Busyman and the posts will reflect such.
Now to the topic...... :dry:
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by Busyman
Well you are doing a shit job. I considered myself rather mild (at least to some member's liking) in this thread. You act as if someone is attacking your posts when they aren't. You are disputing points that people agree on. If they say it again it doesn't mean you haven't said it.
Remedial class is on you little buddy.
Keeping trying to respond the way you think I post. You are vidcc and I am Busyman and the posts will reflect such.
Now to the topic...... :dry:
Why should i base on one thread...i've been doing it on the others.....
you have a higher view of your posting method than others have ...now stfu. gtfo. buy a vowel.... and remember there are other words that don't start with "F"
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
Look at the world of commerce today..where do you see the growth heading and what do you think the USAs standing will be on the international market in say 50 years. At the moment we are at the top but we are losing our grip as the wolves at the bottom of the hill get stronger.
OK, I'll bite.
Where do YOU see the world of commerce heading?
Which wolf is going to become dominant?
My guess would be China.
My brother does a considerable amount of business in China ( makes several trips a year) and ALL his business dealings are in English.
This is not some sort of xenophobic phenomonon, simply a matter of convenience...written Chinese is a nightmare, not really workable for dealing with the rest of the world, so they are adopting English as the language of choice to deal with us round eyes.
Seems to me that most of the pressure around here (Denver) is to accomodate Spanish speaking folk, but, using your logic, that makes no sense as it is highly unlikely that Mexico is going to become an economic superpower anytime soon.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
Why should i base on one thread...i've been doing it on the others.....
you have a higher view of your posting method than others have ...now stfu. gtfo. buy a vowel.... and remember there are other words that don't start with "F"
Who said anything about higher posting method? You must view it that way seeing that you are on every inch of my nut sac like you are on every inch of my posts.
Who knows your shit rationale behind how you post by trying to copy me (word for word it seems)? You do a shit copy and paste job seeing that you are Drawing Room veteran. Maybe you should stick to doing drawrings little fella.
Go Fuck yourself
Shut the Fuck Up and Get The Fuck Out
FfFfFfFfFfFfFuck you
Aww Fuck
I Fucked up..........fucking damn fucking you, you fucking win I fucking guess your were fucking right.
edit: I'm sorry let me write it so you'll understand it.....
Og Fukc yoursfle
Moving on....again. :dry:
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by clocker
OK, I'll bite.
Where do YOU see the world of commerce heading?
Which wolf is going to become dominant?
My guess would be China.
My brother does a considerable amount of business in China ( makes several trips a year) and ALL his business dealings are in English.
This is not some sort of xenophobic phenomonon, simply a matter of convenience...written Chinese is a nightmare, not really workable for dealing with the rest of the world, so they are adopting English as the language of choice to deal with us round eyes.
Seems to me that most of the pressure around here (Denver) is to accomodate Spanish speaking folk, but, using your logic, that makes no sense as it is highly unlikely that Mexico is going to become an economic superpower anytime soon.
Actually I don't know of any big Spanish superpowers in commerce. I'm sure they are there but they don't make news.
As you said... Mexico. No
All of South America. Nope
Spain..No
Central America. No
Some of those areas are stuck in the er..stucko as it is. Some of those folks come here as a refuge..economic and socio-political.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by clocker
OK, I'll bite.
Where do YOU see the world of commerce heading?
Which wolf is going to become dominant?
My guess would be China.
China and indeed Asia in general do seem to be the front runners at present but if you look at outsourcing it's a case of "go where it's cheapest". and Latin American could easily compete given the will power to do it.
Not in our lifetime but there possibly will come a time when we see Asia and Latin American outsourcing jobs to the USA.
You mentioned all trade being done in English...That's probably because AT PRESENT English is the standard. This may have a lot to do with who is the strongest economic influence at the moment and with the changing tides we may see a more dominant nation demanding we deal with them rather than the other way round (if that makes sense).
My point being that as time goes by more nations are developing and the US has greater competition
Spanish was just an example of a possible second language in the US purely based on numbers. Who knows, in 100 years it may be the dominant language.
@ busy
you seem to be frothing at the mouth.
http://images.animationfactory.com/a...lode_lg_wm.gif
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
China and indeed Asia in general do seem to be the front runners at present but if you look at outsourcing it's a case of "go where it's cheapest". and Latin American could easily compete given the will power to do it.
Not in our lifetime but there possibly will come a time when we see Asia and Latin American outsourcing jobs to the USA.
You mentioned all trade being done in English...That's probably because AT PRESENT English is the standard. This may have a lot to do with who is the strongest economic influence at the moment and with the changing tides we may see a more dominant nation demanding we deal with them rather than the other way round (if that makes sense).
My point being that as time goes by more nations are developing and the US has greater competition
Spanish was just
an example of a possible second language in the US purely based on numbers. Who knows, in 100 years it may be the dominant language.
@ busy
you seem to be frothing at the mouth.
http://images.animationfactory.com/a...lode_lg_wm.gif
I leave the frothing to you. The way you've been on my nut sac I doubt that's froth around your mouth.
Ya just can't leave it alone can ya? Keep licking and get this expression of your face (among other things). :ohmy:
Regarding the rest of your post, it kinda goes without saying....
We have competition (and have had it for years)
Other nations could rise up and become economic superpowers.
Who knows, Spanish may be dominant but maybe not.
Uhh yeah. :dry:
If one of the biggest industrialized nations (us) placates to Hispanics then it just might become a dominant language.
Why do it in the first place? :huh:
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by Busyman
I leave the frothing to you. The way you've been on my nut sac I doubt that's froth around your mouth.
Ya just can't leave it alone can ya? Keep licking and get this expression of your face (among other things). :ohmy:
:rolleyes:
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by vidcc
:rolleyes:
edit:nvm not neccesary anymore
:lol: :lol:
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
China and indeed Asia in general do seem to be the front runners at present but if you look at outsourcing it's a case of "go where it's cheapest". and Latin American could easily compete given the will power to do it.
Naturally, "given the willpower" any nation could rise to competitive levels, but cheap labor and willpower alone won't do it.
Creating the necessary infrastructure to support a thriving economy takes decades, especially now that education supercedes raw material/manpower as the critical factor.
India, Japan and (more recently) China have all directed concentrated efforts into their educational systems and the resulting outflow of qualified engineers and scientists almost guarantees their eventual dominance. This, coupled with very large populations (well, not Japan so much) AND access to vast quantities of raw material (especially in the case of China), makes them almost a sure thing.
Given that the power elite of these countries are all learning English as their second language it seems likely that it will remain the dominant language of business at least, for the forseeable future.
But who knows?
Our great grandchildren may all converse in Urdu given the right circumstances.
But prolly not Spanish.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Naturally, "given the willpower" any nation could rise to competitive levels, but cheap labor and willpower alone won't do it.
Creating the necessary infrastructure to support a thriving economy takes decades, especially now that education supercedes raw material/manpower as the critical factor.
i think that goes without saying
Quote:
India, Japan and (more recently) China have all directed concentrated efforts into their educational systems and the resulting outflow of qualified engineers and scientists almost guarantees their eventual dominance. This, coupled with very large populations (well, not Japan so much) AND access to vast quantities of raw material (especially in the case of China), makes them almost a sure thing.
Given that the power elite of these countries are all learning English as their second language it seems likely that it will remain the dominant language of business at least, for the forseeable future.
But who knows?
Our great grandchildren may all converse in Urdu given the right circumstances.
But prolly not Spanish.
again spanish was just an example
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Naturally, "given the willpower" any nation could rise to competitive levels, but cheap labor and willpower alone won't do it.
Creating the necessary infrastructure to support a thriving economy takes decades, especially now that education supercedes raw material/manpower as the critical factor.
India, Japan and (more recently) China have all directed concentrated efforts into their educational systems and the resulting outflow of qualified engineers and scientists almost guarantees their eventual dominance. This, coupled with very large populations (well, not Japan so much) AND access to vast quantities of raw material (especially in the case of China), makes them almost a sure thing.
Given that the power elite of these countries are all learning English as their second language it seems likely that it will remain the dominant language of business at least, for the forseeable future.
But who knows?
Our great grandchildren may all converse in Urdu given the right circumstances.
But prolly not Spanish.
Good points.
China didn't have in influx of English speakers in their country. They injected English into their education due to English dominance in the global marketplace.
Our country, in contrast, seems to be watering itself down by creating a complexity that previously did not exist. The fact that the up and coming superpowers are learning our language is a good indication that we should not sit another language side-by-side with ours in any way....especially Spanish.
Even though China is learning English, you would think that we should learn Chinese but again, they are placating to us so there's no need for vice-versa.
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by Busyman
Even though China is learning English, you would think that we should learn Chinese but again, they are placating to us so there's no need for vice-versa.
Don't you think that they are rising because in part (notice IN PART) because they have the sense to have a second language?
They see a need and answer that need...whereas here the opinion seems to be "why bother?"...... an attitude that could bite us on the ass in the future.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Don't you think that they are rising because in part (notice IN PART) because they have the sense to have a second language?
They see a need and answer that need...whereas here the opinion seems to be "why bother?"...... an attitude that could bite us on the ass in the future.
As to your first:
Parse the reasoning for their move, vid; also, I am not aware they have given English any official standing, I think they are merely cognizant of the habit of the world marketplace, which follows the U.S.'s lead.
Not France's, not Germany's, not Japan's....ours.
Get over your guilt at being numero uno.:lol:
As to your last:
It would seem clear that the trend toward "official" culture-tweaking is currently biting us on the ass; never mind "someday".
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Re: forgetting your roots
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Originally Posted by j2k4
It would seem clear that the trend toward "official" culture-tweaking is currently biting us on the ass; never mind "someday".
Clear..how so?.
what do you see biting us on the ass?
forget immigration...
I see our constitution being abused and ignored and although it may be something you like i am not too keen on our government heading towards an almost theocracy.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Don't you think that they are rising because in part (notice IN PART) because they have the sense to have a second language?
They see a need and answer that need...whereas here the opinion seems to be "why bother?"...... an attitude that could bite us on the ass in the future.
No, I don't.
Actually, I think it's totally due to the fact that English is the dominant language of both commerce and science and Chinese is too awkward and unwieldy to supplant it.
I would be supportive of pushing a second language if I thought most Americans had a marginal grasp of English first.
Sadly, this is not the case.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Don't you think that they are rising because in part (notice IN PART) because they have the sense to have a second language?
They see a need and answer that need...whereas here the opinion seems to be "why bother?"...... an attitude that could bite us on the ass in the future.
Clocker already addressed your first point rather easily.
To your second..
I do say why bother.
We already have educational institutions to teach foreign language.
English seems to be at the top of the heap so to speak.
If we are to look to the future, what language is the future?
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Clear..how so?.
what do you see biting us on the ass?
forget immigration...
I see our constitution being abused and ignored and although it may be something you like i am not too keen on our government heading towards an almost theocracy.
Immigration cannot be ignored, vid; it is part and parcel of my point.
If the misguided idea of accomodating the Spanish language had never taken root to begin with, nor fertilized so richly by our government, we would not be suffering the torrent of illegals across the border.
It is really just that simple.
We have historically opened our borders to immigrants who desired to come here to live in the country we have built over these 200-plus years.
The impetus for the emigre was what he could do for himself, freely and without sacrificing personal dignity.
For centuries, this has been enough, and it should still be so; we have never needed to entice immigrants by offering an ever-widening palette of appetizers, you see?
The entree is meant to be self-service.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
If the misguided idea of accomodating the Spanish language had never taken root to begin with, nor fertilized so richly by our government, we would not be suffering the torrent of illegals across the border.
It is really just that simple.
Let me see if i've got this right.
you are saying that we have a flood of illegal immigrants becuase of the language? :blink:
I would say it has more to do with the fact that they can earn more money here even when being paid under minimum wage....... and much of that money leaves our economy as it is "sent beck home". If illegal immigrants couldn't earn more here than at home i doubt we would have many crossing even if our native language was the same.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Let me see if i've got this right.
you are saying that we have a flood of illegal immigrants becuase of the language? :blink:
I would say it has more to do with the fact that they can earn more money here even when being paid under minimum wage....... and much of that money leaves our economy as it is "sent beck home". If illegal immigrants couldn't earn more here than at home i doubt we would have many crossing even if our native language was the same.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
If you owned a movie theatre and left the emergency exits open, your theatre would constantly be full, but there would be very little traffic past the ticket-taker, and you would go broke.
Is that better?
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
If you owned a movie theatre and left the emergency exits open, your theatre would constantly be full, but there would be very little traffic past the ticket-taker, and you would go broke.
Is that better?
No that's worse..to me that says the problem is insecure borders... which is just something that makes it easier for illegal "economic immigrants" to enter...it still says nothing about how the language encourages it.
you can have open boarders, you will only get immigration if the immigrants can benefit.
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Re: forgetting your roots
I'll put plainly...(I've said it before)
The rise in the Hispanic population is due illegal immigrants.(I know that many become "legal")
The only advantage in us learning Spanish (besides self-enrichment) is to communicate with Mexican immigrants that America seems to be allowing far too many of.
What sense does that make?
Once they get here there isn't an ounce of pressure for them to learn our language. Instead we make concessions for them.
Stupidity.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
No that's worse..to me that says the problem is insecure borders... which is just something that makes it easier for illegal "economic immigrants" to enter...it still says nothing about how the language encourages it.
you can have open boarders, you will only get immigration if the immigrants can benefit.
They not only benefit economically but they benefit culturally. I agree with your first point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Them not having to learn English is placating to them. Since they can get jobs here and have industry change to their liking their is not much incentive to learn English. They may be content to mow hobbes' lawn or do many other jobs at less than minimum wage which, in numerous cases, gives better quality of life than they previously had.
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Re: forgetting your roots
Busy get off the spanish language. IT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE
on the second post about them not having to learn English i will say again that schools will teach both so in a generation nearly the whole country would speak BOTH...not one or the other. there would not be spanish only school or english only schools
