Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
I'll go out on your limb, Busyman.
Throw andro in if you want; McGwire damaged himself irreparably with the taint of his appearance before the Senate, as did the rest.
We had Palmiero's ass on a platter (denied, then caught) and he's right back in there.
Management looked the other way, but I think their fortunes are subject to the spending habits of the fans, as, ultimately, are the players.
The controversy centers around the fact that while record books outlive those who create them, an asterisk can live as long as the record book; so, you see, that is what we're arguing about.
Go ahead, let Bonds break the record, but put an asterisk next to his name (as well as all the other "suspects") noting that "This player exhibited every sign and characteristic of steroid use that resulted in drastically-increased home-run production for several years of his career, along with a subsequent decrease in home-run production when suspicions of steroid (or other performance-enhancing drug) use caused the player public discomfiture, and made their drug-use inconvenient.
I'd be satisfied with that.
BTW-I'd say anecdotal/visual/statistical evidence of all these ballplayers' misdeeds is quite substancial, wouldn't you?
Yet you refuse to condemn Bonds, insisting we further examine McGwire...
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I'll go out on your limb, Busyman.
Throw andro in if you want; McGwire damaged himself irreparably with the taint of his appearance before the Senate, as did the rest.
We had Palmiero's ass on a platter (denied, then caught) and he's right back in there.
Management looked the other way, but I think their fortunes are subject to the spending habits of the fans, as, ultimately, are the players.
The controversy centers around the fact that while record books outlive those who create them, an asterisk can live as long as the record book; so, you see, that is what we're arguing about.
Go ahead, let Bonds break the record, but put an asterisk next to his name (as well as all the other "suspects") noting that "This player exhibited every sign and characteristic of steroid use that resulted in drastically-increased home-run production for several years of his career, along with a subsequent decrease in home-run production when suspicions of steroid (or other performance-enhancing drug) use caused the player public discomfiture, and made their drug-use inconvenient.
I'd be satisfied with that.
BTW-I'd say anecdotal/visual/statistical evidence of all these ballplayers' misdeeds is quite substancial, wouldn't you?
Yet you refuse to condemn Bonds, insisting we further examine McGwire...
There you go again making no sense.
Who said McGwire need further examination?:blink:
I said McGwire's HRs were overlooked despite his admission of using a substance banned in every other sport.
He doesn't needed further examination.
First you say WIPE records based on suspicion now you say put an asterisk based on suspicion. Make your mind up.
Then you have a double standard by making steroid use the only performance enhancer worth your ire.
It sounds funny when I hear, "Bud Selig is going to take a look at the newly released book to see what he'll do with Bonds."
WTF?!
Selig- "Well Bonds, I'm going to have to suspend you. The book had some damaging stuff in it."
Bonds - "The book is a drug test?"
Selig - "Well no. It just sounded really convincing."
:dry:
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
First you say WIPE records based on suspicion now you say put an asterisk based on suspicion. Make your mind up.
WTF yourself, dumbshit.
In case you haven't tumbled to the fact, I don't control what happens with the record book, and if I did, we would not be discussing it; I've couched the "erasure" idea as optimal, in my opinion.
I propose the "asterisk" scenario as a realstic and fitting outcome.
You must realize how this "I can't be bothered to read the whole thread" thingie seriously handicaps you...
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
First you say WIPE records based on suspicion now you say put an asterisk based on suspicion. Make your mind up.
WTF yourself, dumbshit.
In case you haven't tumbled to the fact, I don't control what happens with the record book, and if I did, we would not be discussing it; I've couched the "erasure" idea as optimal, in
my opinion.
I propose the "asterisk" scenario as a realstic and fitting outcome.
You must realize how this
"I can't be bothered to read the whole thread" thingie seriously handicaps you...
Cool, your proposal makes no sense.
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
WTF yourself, dumbshit.
In case you haven't tumbled to the fact, I don't control what happens with the record book, and if I did, we would not be discussing it; I've couched the "erasure" idea as optimal, in my opinion.
I propose the "asterisk" scenario as a realstic and fitting outcome.
You must realize how this "I can't be bothered to read the whole thread" thingie seriously handicaps you...
Cool, your proposal makes no sense.
Seems like a fantastic idea to me.
Could you explain why you consider that putting a simple asterisk next to Bonds' name in the record books is not a reasonable compromise.
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Cool, your proposal makes no sense.
Seems like a fantastic idea to me.
Could you explain why you consider that putting a simple asterisk next to Bonds' name in the record books is not a reasonable compromise.
1. There's has been no proof.
2. This wasn't done with previous rule breakers.
The asterisks and expunging would have to be retroactive to every player in the history of the game.
Sorry to say it but the case for the above would apply to folks with positive tests and admissions.
I honestly think people sound mad with the "he was highly suspected" stuff.
The Villanova basketball team beat Goergetown in the NCAA Championship and there were rumors and witness accounts of psome players being on drugs ftw.
However, no proof of it existed and their win stood.
I can't all of a sudden change my stance on proof in a mere sport (this is not government) 'cause Babe Ruth's record is about to be broken.....again :dry:
Maybe this would held more water with me if this stance was taken before with most other drugs.
It seems this is a "special case" because of Bonds. Bonds has received death threats before he broke the HR records and he receives them now. I am not surprised over the "outrage".
The "outrage" is very late considering what has transpired in sport previous to this debacle.
My consistent stance is that even if a player tests positive now, I wouldn't wipe or asterisk the records.
I would either suspend them for a year or even ban them from the sport. History will remember what transpired. No asterisk needed.
Funny that in Bonds' case, so far "he said" has transpired.
I'm surprised no one mentioned wiping the record for that season.
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
My consistent stance is that even if a player tests positive now, I wouldn't wipe or asterisk the records.
I would either suspend them for a year or even ban them from the sport. History will remember what transpired. No asterisk needed.
Funny that in Bonds' case, so far "he said" has transpired.
I'm surprised no one mentioned wiping the record for that season.
Hank Aaron had death threats, too; many more than Bonds, I'm sure.
It has been reported Bonds has failed drug tests, and more than once, too.
He and the owners have successfully stonewalled any attempt to access the records, and all he need do is deny, deny, deny, and history will record otherwise.
Well, yeah, Barry did it while it wasn't against the rules, after all, and McGwire did the same; Jose was legal as far as Big League ball was concerned, too.
Fuck it; let it slide.
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
My consistent stance is that even if a player tests positive now, I wouldn't wipe or asterisk the records.
I would either suspend them for a year or even ban them from the sport. History will remember what transpired. No asterisk needed.
Funny that in Bonds' case, so far "he said" has transpired.
I'm surprised no one mentioned wiping the record for that season.
Hank Aaron had death threats, too; many more than Bonds, I'm sure.
It has been reported Bonds
has failed drug tests, and more than once, too.
He and the owners have successfully stonewalled any attempt to access the records, and all he need do is deny, deny, deny, and history will record otherwise.
Well, yeah, Barry did it while it wasn't against the rules, after all, and McGwire did the same; Jose was legal as far as Big League ball was concerned, too.
Fuck it; let it slide.
I dunno. Maybe Congress will get involved...again.:lol: :lol: :lol:
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
There are no steroids in baseball, only players Chuck Norris has breathed on. :shifty:
Re: Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds
In the book, the author claims Barry Bonds remarked to Ken Griffey Jr. that he was going to start using "some hardcore stuff" to increase his hitting power.
Ken Griffey doesn't recall such a remark and doesn't know how the author obtained the quote.
In spring training, Bonds was 3 for 3 with one homer against the Rangers.
Oh and should Sammy Sosa have his record wiped too?
He did hit alota HRs and then there was that corked bat............
