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Boxing is a completly different issue. Boxers do not NEED the money to live. they could get a job like anyone else. Homeless people require this money to actually survive, and people exploit them for entertainment. Dont start comparing organized sport with willing participants to people exploiting the poor for their own entertainment.
Well she said our society............... like hers or yours is perfect.Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman+27 April 2004 - 08:27--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 27 April 2004 - 08:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by SnnY@26 April 2004 - 21:21
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@27 April 2004 - 02:18
how dose homeless people hurting eachother effect you guy's in another country.Seem's like it upset's you guy's alot -_-
we'd be pretty daft if we only cared about the people on our doorstep.
EDit: titki: I gots this thingie called a profile. :P :)
Now it's bedtime for mister S.
And don't take it too hard, if you don't agree with what's wrong, then I'd say yer right, regardless of yer nationality. Just don't call people bitches in the context you did, it kinda' pisses me off.
Fights happen
Being paid to fight.....happens
American film making has always been a little more colorful. We do not have just one dominant culture.
You folks amaze me with your moral high ground. [/b][/quote]
I don't see my society as perfect, I don't even see it as being completely of my choosing. And as for what she said, that's her business.
Regardless of any of that, is it right to use people in this manner?
It is a form of exploitation is it not? To use these people who'll do anything for a bit of food or money isn't right, since they've got no options.
I don't agree with callin' it "typical american entertainment" 'cuz I gotta hope every american won't agree with this kind of thing.
The only aspirations to moral high ground I'd really like to claim to have with regards to this matter is that we don't have, and don't agree to, Bumfights in my country.
The rest got here through my getting annoyed with some yoyo who said "I don't get why everyone has such a bad attitude towards the US" or whatever, as if it was a one-sided thing. The attitude comin' the other way ain't exactly celestial in nature.
If that makes no sense, then I guess I gotta stay out o' these discussions at three in the mornin'.
Wierdest thing is they are paying them! Go to Manchester city centre after 10pm and you get the same kind of stuff for free. Must be a lot cheaper for them to give a backhander to a CCTV provider. Leave a few bottles of diamond white lying around and you got a Battle Royale.
Which boxers don't need the money, don't be naive? You think rich kids go into boxing. Boxing is a way out for the underclass and the young kids with talent are exploited. For every boxer you have heard of, 1000 exist. When they don't cut it, when their promoters give up on them. They are thrown back into their world of poverty with a retirement package comprised of brain damage.Quote:
Originally posted by RGX@27 April 2004 - 16:05
Boxing is a completly different issue. Boxers do not NEED the money to live. they could get a job like anyone else. Homeless people require this money to actually survive, and people exploit them for entertainment. Dont start comparing organized sport with willing participants to people exploiting the poor for their own entertainment.
The sports world is full of exploited people, you just don't know their names.
But....
The whole issue centers around the characterization of a society because of the existance of "Bum fights". It sickens me, honestly, and yet I am thrown into this "sick society" generalization by the morally superior.
I am tired of this bullshit. Such things exist in every country, we just put it on a shinier box and market it better. Get over yourselves.
Amen to that Snny.Quote:
And quit talking about "our society" as if it was a unit
If people could talk about their opinion of bum fights, that would be fine, but people like Brenda, just rub people wrong.
Look how irritated and defensive Snny got when he got lumped with his country rather than being considered as a person. Very atypically angry posts he made. Being American, I have to deal with this daily.Quote:
its sick..... it just shows how fucked up your society is
People everywhere can and will do anything for a buck. And when people can be exploited for money, there is always some capitalist to jump on the opportunity. Doesn't me I like it or approve of it, it is just reality.
Which boxers don't need the money, don't be naive? You think rich kids go into boxing. Boxing is a way out for the underclass and the young kids with talent are exploited. For every boxer you have heard of, 1000 exist. When they don't cut it, when their promoters give up on them. They are thrown back into their world of poverty with a retirement package comprised of brain damage.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes+27 April 2004 - 15:48--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 27 April 2004 - 15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RGX@27 April 2004 - 16:05
Boxing is a completly different issue. Boxers do not NEED the money to live. they could get a job like anyone else. Homeless people require this money to actually survive, and people exploit them for entertainment. Dont start comparing organized sport with willing participants to people exploiting the poor for their own entertainment.
The sports world is full of exploited people, you just don't know their names.
But....
The whole issue centers around the characterization of a society because of the existance of "Bum fights". It sickens me, honestly, and yet I am thrown into this "sick society" generalization by the morally superior.
I am tired of this bullshit. Such things exist in every country, we just put it on a shinier box and market it better. Get over yourselves.
Amen to that Snny.Quote:
And quit talking about "our society" as if it was a unit
If people could talk about their opinion of bum fights, that would be fine, but people like Brenda, just rub people wrong.
Look how irritated and defensive Snny got when he got lumped with his country rather than being considered as a person. Very atypically angry posts he made. Being American, I have to deal with this daily.Quote:
its sick..... it just shows how fucked up your society is
People everywhere can and will do anything for a buck. And when people can be exploited for money, there is always some capitalist to jump on the opportunity. Doesn't me I like it or approve of it, it is just reality. [/b][/quote]
What I was saying was that these boxers usually have more of a choice than homeless people. I dont think there are many homeless boxers out there that are coming back from the gym to a park bench, do you? They get a retirement package of brain damage, well I guess they cant really blame anyone else for that.
These people are homeless, they live day by day, trying to scrounge money. Some middle class dick with a video camera comes up to them and offers them $20 to fight another homeless guy down the road, for his own entertainment. When you dont know where your next meal is coming from, that seems like a mighty good idea. Basically, its like the gladitorial arenas of old, where people fight for others pleasure in order to keep their living, as danb says, just like boxing. The difference is that boxing is usually a choice, for these guys its whether they eat this week or not. Im not denying that there are people out there who box for money to keep food on the table, but there are rules and choices.
:o you opened up a can of worms here masterpiece was that your intention i wonder ;)
unfortunately most of the world dont like america now thats not meaning individual americans its more the wonderful foreign policies of the govenment....
which aint your fault as i understand it they didnt even get the vote of the majority
anyhow thats enough of that ....
i guess what i is tryin too say is dont take it so personally when someone expresses there objections to something they feel strong about.
and to call them a bitch...... whats that about?
right thats enough from me
live and let live people :)
she has just checked her posts and she cannot find any reference to 'our society'Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@27 April 2004 - 07:27
Well she said our society............... like hers or yours is perfect.
when I said that your society was fucked up for watching such programmes (and calling them entertainment) I was not suggesting that the society in which I live in is in any way superior or inferior, I am in fact embarrassed of my own society and hope that I will someday be given the opportunity to improve it. I was simply speaking from the heart. I am deeply saddened by any society that casts people out, turns its back on people in need, laughs at peoples misfortunes, exploits people misfortunes and then packages and sells peoples misfortunes. To trade on dispair is not a nice thing. There are not many nice societies in this world I certainly do not live in one, but i do try to make it better
and is not the opposite also true? :smoke: dosent America think as a whole superior to the rest opf the world? [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by jazzthefunk+26 April 2004 - 20:06--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jazzthefunk @ 26 April 2004 - 20:06)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lee551@27 April 2004 - 00:58
i dont mean to offend anyone here, but it does seem that lots of un-americans think that their countries are always better than the usa. :rolleyes:
I believe your thinking of the French.
Peace brotherdoobie
RGX,
There is no reason for these people to be homeless, it is a lifestyle choice. 40% or so alcoholics. Most are single men or women, there are many fewer homeless families and this is a condition which is usually transient, not a lifestyle.
If you are able-bodied enough to fight, you are able to work. It is a choice, you show up to work on time and move boxes, or you can simply get off your ass and take a swing at the drunk sleeping next to you for 20 bucks. Their lifestyle is simply a result of poorly chosen priorities. I like to drink, but my responsibilities come first.
A significant number of street people are mentally ill, and it would be a shame to prey on these individuals. Yes, they could all be housed in State instituitions, but unless they are considered a danger to themselves or others, they cannot be forced to stay. Mentally ill people are not stupid, and they don't like being locked away, so many opt for this life over institutionalization.
This is not really the reason I responded to the thread, I just think that the Bums do have a choice. I only commented on your post because people tend to forget what happened to all those old college stars that never made the Pro's. Do you realize how many black athletes have gone to fine schools and made lots of money for that school and ended up with nothing upon graduation. No job and a shit degree in Physical Education. They return to world of gangs and drugs they grew up in, the one coach promised to free them of.
Exploitation has many faces.
she has just checked her posts and she cannot find any reference to 'our society'Quote:
Originally posted by brenda+27 April 2004 - 17:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (brenda @ 27 April 2004 - 17:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@27 April 2004 - 07:27
Well she said our society............... like hers or yours is perfect.
when I said that your society was fucked up for watching such programmes (and calling them entertainment) I was not suggesting that the society in which I live in is in any way superior or inferior, I am in fact embarrassed of my own society and hope that I will someday be given the opportunity to improve it. I was simply speaking from the heart. I am deeply saddened by any society that casts people out, turns its back on people in need, laughs at peoples misfortunes, exploits people misfortunes and then packages and sells peoples misfortunes. To trade on dispair is not a nice thing. There are not many nice societies in this world I certainly do not live in one, but i do try to make it better[/b][/quote]
Societies don't make those videos, people do.
You owe me, and really all Americans, an apology for sweeping us up together as a fucked up society based on the existance of Bumfights.
I am sickened by the concept, and although some tout that these videos are staged, I am sure real fights exist.
Remember the glorified version of Bumfights called:
Lionheart.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~rlevy/images/lionheart.jpg
Honour or revenge, he has no choice...
When the streets are a jungle...there can only be one king.
edit: IMDB picture replaced.