Printable View
i dont know if this has any meaning to anything but when trinity dies he reaches into her body as opposed to smith where he stabs into a persons body. and neo can bring a person back to life but how? and smith can duplicate himself.
kinda the same but not really?
Did anyone know, the girl who eats the cake is the 'lady in the red dress' from the first movie? Haha :lol:
Nope the trailer after the Reloaded movie is a lot different than the one in the forums. Good to see them both. Not sure why there is already two trailers for revalutions now though.Quote:
Originally posted by ripley02@19 May 2003 - 15:31
all i gotta say after seeing this over the weekend is DAMN!! it was totally bad ass in every way but i see i wasnt the only one who was a bit confused. and i cant believe i missed the revolutions trailer. but i think i dl'd it from another thread so i hope it's the same one!!
i think revolutions is gonna finally answer all these questions, at least we can hope it does.
The architect said the oracle did this to 99%, Neo being "The One" may therefore be the 1% she missed!Quote:
so he could be the one as well since there is speculation over neo being part human part machine.
i do not really agree with this one since the oracle set it all up to get rid of abnormalities in the matrix which would mean he has to human.
Neo reaches into trinity's body and takes out the bullet (you have to look closely). She then dies but he reaches in again to get her heart pumping. Weird.Quote:
Originally posted by ripley02@19 May 2003 - 16:14
i dont know if this has any meaning to anything but when trinity dies he reaches into her body as opposed to smith where he stabs into a persons body. and neo can bring a person back to life but how? and smith can duplicate himself.
kinda the same but not really?
taken from Dark HorizonsQuote:
The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions (MAJOR SPOILERS): The hour of video throughout the "Enter the Matrix" computer game which was written/directed by the Wachowskis and filmed concurrently with the two movies, contains major spoilers for "Revolutions" and some backstory for "Reloaded". 'TwelveStones' has gathered the key juicy info he could find during these video segments and reveals them here - be well aware though that all this includes MAJOR spoilers for Reloaded and Revolutions so don't go shooting the messenger ok. Lets begin:
"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".
Huh...well the more and more I read all of this stuff. The more and more it seems to be leaning towards a double matrix theory. And if the Oracle does mean Neo...well than that just about puts the nail in the coffin...
I certainly agree with your thought.Quote:
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 06:24
Okay, now heres my thoughts.
1. The ending first and foremost. Who was that guy? Across the way from neo?
2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"?
1. That was definetly Smith.
2. I think Neo stop those machines because they are still conected to the matrix. I
think they never got out. I think in the first movie they broke from one matrix world to
another. So they are closer to getting out. The question is besides "what is the Matrix"
How manu subworlds has the matix designed for everyone. I think Neo was able to stop
those machines because he is still in the virtual world therefore having unlimited power.
I hope of course that the third movie will tie everything together. B)
I think this hobo is the man Neo sees being escorted out of the restuarant as they arrive to meet the Frenchman.Quote:
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@20 May 2003 - 00:10
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours".
Matrix within matrix... hmm.... very interesting. But I'm more interested in the French guy.
1) He was introduced by Oracle to Neo in the park b4 the infamous 'I need more' Smiths and Neo fight. Oracle hinted that he was an old program and mentioned the sentance 'What does a person in power wants? More power'.
2) When Neo & gangs met up with him in the restuarant, he question Neo 'do u know why u r here?' and he concluded by saying 'U r here because u were told to do so'. He later demostrate his programming skill in that special cake served to the lady (someone mentioned she is the Lady In Red, I didn't even aware).
3) His wife bring Neo & gangs to the washroom and propose a kiss from Neo in exchange for the key maker. 'He was like u when we first came here' she said.
4) When Neo defeated all his bodyguards (his protectors were sent to recapture key maker), the French guy mentioned 'I'd survive the previous 5 attack' (not the exact words though) b4 he turned and fleet.
Q: What role does he play in the matrix?
No doubt he is one of the VIP (very important program). He has 2 protectors (the twins), and even Oracle mentioned he is a man in power. He is very much like the Oracle, he emphasize 'cause and effect' while she focus on 'choice'; they both specialise in human behaviour and always experimenting & observing human reaction (their approach are different). They are very human (the caring, kind and wise Oracle. The evil and power hunger French), is this a programming fault when AI come too close in contact with human?
Q: What's with the power thing?
He can bend rules, or in his context change the programming code of object (a normal cake becomes a sexual stimulant). What is the power he seek after? Doing whatever he wants? Taking over matrix? Reforming the matrix world?
Q: Is he The One as propose by others?
1st approach - Yes he is.
He had to be the 1st generation as he mentioned 'I'd survive the previous 5 attack'. What I meant is he had to fight against his conscience and eventually he give in to his evil part. But the Architect did mentioned all previous The One choose to restart matrix and became part of the rebuilding process. Can it be a pact is made between him and the Architect. The Architect may paint him a picture or revealing the whole truth to him which is so depressing that The One had to admit the continuing of matrix is the only way for human survival. The Architect may then propose the rebuilding process, asking The One to join him in the continuation of human-machine survival. Architect may offer him a vital role in the process, one that is in search of human behaviour or essence of human emotion. In exchange, The One will agree to merge with the matrix giving his unique codes he carried in his body for Architect to study.
He and his wife resemble Neo and Trinity, which account for his wife sentence in the washroom. So why he ended up as more-or-less a bad guy? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupt absolutely? Why he kept the key maker? He do not want more fallen angels to emerge? Side-track abit, by this school of thoughts, Oracle can be considered one of the fallen angels or previous The One.
2nd approach - No he isn't.
He is a program and remains a program. The sentence 'I'd survived the previous 5 attack' atates very clearly he is the target of The Ones, maybe his responsibility is to safeguard the passage to the source (initially). His wife's sentence in the washroom just indicate he may be a program to simulate human in order to study and better understand human behaviour and emotions. He chose one of the human and reveal the truth to her and experiencing the most crucial emotion and feeling of human - Love. As he get more involve with human, he was corrupted, he become addicted to power and sex. But again, why matrix given him that much control? Why didn't agents being sent to 'delete' him? Why he didn't re-programme his wife to be the most ideal wife in the world?
This can keep going, and his twins protectors interests me so much that I like to address them seperately, next time maybe.
Man o man...tyk...your really bringing it to the table. Youve posted more in your first two than most do in there first 50. Keep up the good work man, Im going to reread this tommorow morning when I dont have to hold my eyelids open.
Just a couple of thoughts on a few points I saw raised, and some of my own:
1) The rave/party/celebration/sex scene: The party was ok, but went on too long. How long do we need to look at people jumping up and down and groping each other in slow motion? The sex scene was totally gratuitous... It was 6 months since the end of the first movie, and the Neb has obviously been to Zion at least once since then. Everyone (the movie-goers) knew Neo and Trinity were doing the nasty even without it being said. Again, it was way too long.
2) Bane (the guy Smith infected) cutting his hand: I can't believe how much people are reading into this scene. Smith was going to assassinate Neo in real world, that's all, but the kid ruined it by calling out for Neo to wait up and causing everyone to turn around. The element of surprise was gone, so he had nothing to do but wish Neo luck. I can't be sure why he was cutting his hand, but the more I think about it, he did it because he (Smith) could; because he was human.
3) The Merovingian: No, he wasn't one of "the One"s... His statement of "I've survived the previous Neo's, and I'll survive you" or some-such was more like saying "No matter what you do, I'll still be here. I'm that bad-ass." When Neo stops all those bullets and he says, "So, you've got some skill"; that was a "I'm going to make a witty remark to hide the fact that I'm wetting my pants right now."
4) Neo's chat with The Architect: A friend of mine came up with the idea that all those TVs with all those Neo's, were actually all of his possible reactions (calculated by the Matrix, maybe?). You'll notice that at least twice, they all start shouting and stuff, and the camera zooms in on one of the TVs, possibly representing the reaction the "real" Neo had.
Hmm... I know there's more...
Oh well. Now, something a bit more general:
1) Birth in the Matrix: Do the "parents" decide to have a child, and the machines create a human child in the real world, or is it the other way around; do the machines create a child, and then its birth is programmed into the Matrix?
i justkinda skipped all of your coments past page 3 too lazy, so forgive me if this has already been stated these are some of my speculations,
1) the matrix sorta "rewinds" each time and thats how there were 5 neos/matrix's
2)the archetect said basically said to neo humans can make thier own choices making them superior to the machnes , and he expected neo to choose the door he didnt.the whole movie to me has a theme based on choices
3) the oracal knew smith would show up there to prepare neo and show him what smith had become
4)the twins are ghost programs that were supposed to be deleted, mervo... wife was a vampire and the guy she shot wasa werewolf, which was explained inteh movie
5)i wish i could remember what else i was gonna type but ill elaborate on these theorys later too tired 430 am...
6)bottom line the wachowski's make everything happen fora reason so no matter what even how subtle somthing seems it will play a part later, dont over rule any theory with evidance unless it was clearly rejected by somthing stated in the movie
thats it for now sooooooooo tired and i still cant find a working copy of this damn movie!
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie!!! Woo hoo!!
Neo & Architect talk
It certainly explains its not a matrix in a matrix thingy thats got ever1 believing it.......................
excellent link hazzy hazz.
After reading it, I understand it a little better
and get a little more insight to what the architect
is saying.
It also definitely proves that zion is real and not
another matrix (the matrix in a matrix thing is, in my
opinion, pretty stupid and corny to be in the next movie)
:lol:
The script was a great read..... But it only shows the movie isn't consistent and doesn't follow a logical thought process, yielding a FANTASY classification.Quote:
Originally posted by Hazzy Hazz@20 May 2003 - 13:19
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie!!! Woo hoo!!
1. If the machines already know which door Neo is taking, wouldn't they have a backup plan? Surely they aren't going to let their power source die for a lousy 1% improvement in crop yields. They can't be that stupid.
2. Why are the machines hell bent on 100% crop yields? This is illogical. Only a human would have the arrogances to believe 100% was possible. A super smart computer would know that there are forces (As Frenchy put it "cause and effect, action... reaction".) it couldn't control.
3. The thing I find very puzzling is why the machines elected to alter the Matrix to increase crop yields verses other means. Genetic alterations, selective breeding and others.
Who knows, maybe Peter Pan and Tinker Bell will save the day!
machines are built on logic that is why they believe that 100 % is possible. to them it is only bad programming that leads to the 1%. they are kinda debugging the matrix still.Quote:
2. Why are the machines hell bent on 100% crop yields? This is illogical. Only a human would have the arrogances to believe 100% was possible. A super smart computer would know that there are forces (As Frenchy put it "cause and effect, action... reaction".) it couldn't control.
I believe your logic is flawed, machines would follow all the rules and laws of nature and would be aware that 100% was impossible. (see Gaussian distribution / Normal Curve) Humans filter the rules and laws of nature to suit there desires..... HOPE is a prime example. Machines would never consider HOPE as a possible option.Quote:
Originally posted by 4play@20 May 2003 - 17:06
machines are built on logic that is why they believe that 100 % is possible. to them it is only bad programming that leads to the 1%. they are kinda debugging the matrix still.
Hope is driven by man's inability to control his emotions which cloud his logical thought processes through weak memories of the rules.
Meaning, man has difficulty remembering evey little detail about the world around him including the laws of nature.
Plus man has to contend with emotion, a very powerful influence on the thought process.
So when you mix emotion and poor memory you come up with HOPE.
Neither of which a machine would have to contend with.
MATRIX HIDDEN EXTRA'S:
Go to: http://www.matrixmovie.com/
-Click on: 'Enter High Bandwidth'
-Click the yellow round thing on the upper right
-Click twice on the square next to 'Low bandwidth'
-Click 'next to 'Access panel 3'
Now you can HACK THE MATRIX SECRETS.
This are the codes:
11011011 3d view nebuchadnezzar
10110110 Bonus clip Stunt coordinator
00011000 Bonus clip Concept Illustrator
10000001 Previous matrix website
11101001 Trinity concept art
11010100 Animatrix Desktop Art
01101111 Hexadecimal menu
both topics on the revelation of a matrix within the matrix and trinity being an agent will be covered in the third installment.
I don't believe this proves Zion is reality. Zion could possibly be an independent matrix, isolated to protect the master matrix. Its like a holding cell until the architect and his team can figure a way to keep them happy and merge them back into the master matrix.Quote:
Originally posted by Hazzy Hazz@20 May 2003 - 13:19
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie!!! Woo hoo!!
Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.
Something rather confussing the architect did say was "99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level."
It sounds like he's saying it didn't matter whether the individual was (unconscious/conscious) in or out of the Matrix 1% refused the program.
Wouldn't it make sense to keep them contained in an isolated matrix until you have a solution...?
I don't believe this proves Zion is reality. Zion could possibly be an independent matrix, isolated to protect the master matrix. Its like a holding cell until the architect and his team can figure a way to keep them happy and merge them back into the master matrix.Quote:
Originally posted by scruge+20 May 2003 - 14:17--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (scruge @ 20 May 2003 - 14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Hazzy Hazz@20 May 2003 - 13:19
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie!!! Woo hoo!!
Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.
Something rather confussing the architect did say was "99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level."
It sounds like he's saying it didn't matter whether the individual was (unconscious/conscious) in or out of the Matrix 1% refused the program.
Wouldn't it make sense to keep them contained in an isolated matrix until you have a solution...? [/b][/quote]
Maybe it is not that the 1% was the one par say, but they were people like morpheus or trinity and they could be taken out of the matrix and that is why they wouldn't turn to agents. Now if that is true then Neo is part of the one precent, but he rejected the program entirely and ther for is able to see it as just a program. The only reason why he didn't orginally see it this way is that he was confirable in the matrix and didn't need to see the true matrix. Once morpheus removed him he was forced to see this and came to recognize it.
i dont know if anyone else has any thoughts like this but, when revolutions comes out and is supposed to answer all these questions about "what is the matrix". it would be funny when come to find out that the answer wont be half as complicated as most people make it out to be!
Watched Matrix:Reloaded the other day and having thought about it have decided that I didn't like it as much as the first film. The sequences within the Matrix were excellant but what the fuck was going on with the "Rave in Ewok Village" section. What a crock of shit!! The producers must have been kicking themselves when the first movie was such a hit, Reeves is so wooden it's painful to watch him sometimes. Fishburne hammed it up a bit too much but I'll forgive him for the "Truck-Fight". In fact the whole "Freeway" sequence was breathtaking!! Also the way in which the video-game fills in the plot gaps is good. Game is a bit short and too easy though!! I'm undecided whether there is a Matrix within a Matrix as discussed earlier in the thread. I'll have to see it again, the Architect section posed more questions than it answered. Overall I'd give it 8 out of 10. :D
Monica Bellucci made me "pitch a tent". :lol: B) :lol:
Excellent point! We should all think on that one...Quote:
Originally posted by scruge@20 May 2003 - 15:17
It sounds like he's saying it didn't matter whether the individual was (unconscious/conscious) in or out of the Matrix 1% refused the program.
Wouldn't it make sense to keep them contained in an isolated matrix until you have a solution...?
they would have to keep the variants happy somewhere would they not? that would make perfect sense...
But in the mean time its kinda fun thinking about where the movie may go. Its a good exercise for the brain.Quote:
Originally posted by ripley02@20 May 2003 - 23:53
i dont know if anyone else has any thoughts like this but, when revolutions comes out and is supposed to answer all these questions about "what is the matrix". it would be funny when come to find out that the answer wont be half as complicated as most people make it out to be!
Some questions,
- Why did Oracle in "Matrix 1" says Neo was not the ONE, but she, like the Architect, is supposed to be the smartest program around and to know all of the stuff. Still, Neo is the only one that can do the cool stuff like flying and stopping bullets.
- What about the Agents? Where do they come from? Are they supposed to be antiviruses created by the Architect to stop anyone how kinda enters the Matrix with knowing that in reality this is not the real world?
- The two white guys and the french guy, do they only exist in the Matrix or is there a place for them too hook into the Matrix like Neo, Morpheus etc. does.
- How come the chineese guy who protects the Oracle was not seen in Matrix 1?
- How did Smith got into that corridor of infinite doors?
- When Neo flys through that door with Morpheus into that small room with only the other door that led to the architect, what if he had some explosive and detonated one of the walls in the background, whare would he exit? Would he create some kinda of crack in the matrix.
Morpheus was still in that room with the dead key-maker, on about the end they show Morpheus in the ship not connected to the matrix, how did he got out of the matrix? How did he got out of that room? Was it something like opening the door, which the key-maker closed, and he would be on some other place where he could find a phone to exit the matrix. I don't think he could be located i that room. Why don't they use mobiles to enter, exit the matrix or don't they have them?
- In the "real world" ther must be some centre which controls every human connected to the matrix. I would like to see something like this in Revolutions.
You may think I've got so many stupid questions, but I'm really interested in every detail.
Cheers.
1)I dont think you really got a grasp of the 1st matrix. The Oracle sadi that Neo wasnt the One on purpose even though she knew he was the one. She did this because if Neo believed he was the "one" he would not go and save morpheus. Going to save Morpheus brought his true powers out (esp. when fighting smith in subway). Therefore, if the oracle said he wud be the "one" he wouldnt actually be the "one".
2)I guess you could call the agents. Anti-viruses. They stop anything that threatens the matrix.
3)The French Guy and the Twins (this is still being debated) are seemingly programs in the matrix and not humans connected to the matrix.
4)No one knew the Matrix was gona be such a success. The protector probably wasnt thought of/ not needed for the first movie.
5)I have no idea, i am wondering this myself since Smith is no longer an Agent.
6)No idea what you are talking about
7)This whole getting out of the matrix thing is also being discussed. they never showed Neo/Morpheus/Trinity getting out of the Matrix although they showed Link. (However they could still be in the matrix and Link could just be a program hmmmm).
They probably need a direct line to get out of the matrix and cant use mobiles. It would also be too easy if they could just use a cell phone or something.
8)This would be interesting
The thing is this though, in the first matrix Morpheous tells neo that the first "one" remade the matrix etc and was propechisied to return. I take that as this first one was able to free himself at least from the program in the sense they knew it was a crock and got others together so when they were spit out of the matrix they built zion. but then again that sounds off because once the things that removed neo took them out they wouldn't be able to swim etc due to atrophied limbs from non-use. So my next conclusion then is that after the previous matrix failures due to program rejection the machines under the the oracles(she's studied human emotion etc. and can calculate response being a program under a given set of circumstances based on this knowledge i.e neo knocking over the vase, or his uncertainty and saying he wasn't the one) thought I'd be best to create a city like Zion for them to flee into. But damn it they'd still have to take people out like the architect was going to have neo pick to rebuild zion. But that being the case as the architect said with neo having to pick thirteen out of the matrix to rebuild it then that means the machines could've done this themselves the first time they decided to build a zion and wiped the memory of the matrix actually putting the people in zion out of the founders of zions mind. that would mean it's not another matrix but a sort of failsafe for the program which kept lets say "corrupt" files from mucking up the system and figuring out to to truely defeat the enemy. Hmmm. As for neo stopping the squiggly's I'm thinking that the "ones" take on program attributes and the hardware the still posess which is in interaction with the matrix software can sense and affect other matrix programs on matrix software possessee's. An example of programs being able to sense other programs was the Oracles protector sensing former agent Smith and hustling her out of there for neo to fight or the Dangerous French guy program wife knowing that the chick at the table was blowing the French guy when he went to the bathroom. But once again while language said in reference to rogue programs lead me to believe the twin dreadlockred programs and the dangerous program were holding the keymaker in quarintine but later on the freeway decided to delete him in the agent own words which the keymaker knew was his fate but then why was he bleeding when shot? Could the matrix give older programs like this "keygenerator" human like quailities for easier deletion? Look how the "mother" of the matrix needs to be protected from other programs. I mean "silver bullets" to kill that old program guarding the keymaker? Hmm I'll iron this out further at some point.
I'll answer some questions now:
1. She said he was not the one because he didn't believe in himself from how he was acting and her being well versed in human behavior knows what to say to get a person or processor if you will to do it's job. The sitution shwe saw coming would force him to believe in himself asides his oldness when being freed and surviving it mentally.
2. The twin brothers and the French guy as well as hs wife and the dudes that attacked neo in that hall as Mor and trin got away with the keymaker are programs. The Oracle told neo a dangerous program was holding the keymaker and the French guy that program told neo the fortune tellers days were numbered so I think he's a program too to know of her faced other ones which would mean he's been around across the times which would have to be decades if not centuries zion was built and destroyed several times.
3. different circumstances this time. Perhaps the Oracle is taking on Rogue program in need of deletion characteristics and needs destroying for betraying her programming objective and becoming a ""beliver" as she says in neo.
4. Smith has virus characterictics with the duplication and can sense neo as he said so he probably can see these areas in the matrix program to get into them.
5. If he detonated something it wouldn't have mattered. Blowing up the whole building didn't destroy the matrix after he left the Architect.
6. morpheus left the room at the same time Neo went to see the architect. Remember the keymaker says to morpheus "that door will lead you out or home" and to neo you know which door to go to to get to the source.
7. I explained how he got out which answers this question also but to add they need a hardline wired into the matrix which a mobile or cell phone isn't.
I read an interesting point made by someone on another forum.
Remember when Smith assimulates the goatee guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.
How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????
Who had the device? Neo and crew or goatee dude? I remember i saw that guy with a knife but it looked like he only shook his hand. i'm downloading a copy right now. I'll get back to you on this.Quote:
Originally posted by scruge@21 May 2003 - 04:16
Remember when Smith assimulates the goat-t guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.
How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????
Who had the device? Neo and crew or goatee dude? I remember i saw that guy with a knife but it looked like he only shook his hand. i'm downloading a copy right now. I'll get back to you on this. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by slick nick+21 May 2003 - 04:25--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slick nick @ 21 May 2003 - 04:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--scruge@21 May 2003 - 04:16
Remember when Smith assimulates the goat-t guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.
How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????
At the very begining of the movie when you see the two guys drop down through the skylite to get away from Smith. The goatee guy hands his partner the device and says you go first. The guy exits the matrix and then Smith drops down and assimulate the goatee guy before he exits. The partner carring the device out of the matrix, later in the movie gives the device to Neo while in Zion.
At first, thanks for the early responses to the questions I asked.
What is the Oracle? I know that she is a really smart program, but if the Architect created the matrix and everything else, so what is then the Oracle's purpose. Why was she created by the Architect too. Did the Architect took in consideration that if somebody could have freed himself out of the matrix that he/she could get advice from the Oracle? Didn't the Architect considder that Oracle's creation is the most important part of the matrix and that she could be the key to everybody, i.e. the french guy, the key-maker and even to himself.
There is a lot of debate regarding the role of the Oracle.Quote:
Originally posted by Alucard1475@21 May 2003 - 04:56
At first, thanks for the early responses to the questions I asked.
What is the Oracle? I know that she is a really smart program, but if the Architect created the matrix and everything else, so what is then the Oracle's purpose. Why was she created by the Architect too. Did the Architect took in consideration that if somebody could have freed himself out of the matrix that he/she could get advice from the Oracle? Didn't the Architect considder that Oracle's creation is the most important part of the matrix and that she could be the key to everybody, i.e. the french guy, the key-maker and even to himself.
I think she is an anomaly, a program gone good.
I think her purpose in the earlier iterations of the matrix was to help counsel 'the one' , and to keep him on track.
I believe now she is in favor of releasing the humans from the matrix which has now made her an enemy. She now has a body guard and meetings are in different places. The Frenchman even mentions her days are numbered, as if to say we're closing in on her.
I stated this earlier as a thought and I still can't comprehend why the machines would destroy Zion and rebuild it. I mean what is hte point? It makes no sense to destroy something that you don't want just to rebuild it. The humans are trying to destroy the machines. The machines aren't going to tell Neo the truth. They will lie to him to confince them they are doing otherwise. Seems like a waste of resources to rebuild a real world over and over. Makes more sense if Zion was a Virtual Reality made to see how the humans could fight back. And if they have destroyed and rebuilt Zion in a real world they would know how to get their the quick way. They wouldn't have to bore.
I think it's like they said. On a subconscious level people will know something isn't right. Giving them hope through having a zion occupies them in the mean while until things reach a critical point when the anomaly makes his way to the architect. They aren't keeping it because they want it but for the purpose it serves which is a place for the corrupted. The littlest thing which doesn't ring true like the squigglies quickly reaching Zion would tip people off that they made zion and be the subconscious thing that would mess up the program again.Quote:
Originally posted by kildred11@21 May 2003 - 06:30
I stated this earlier as a thought and I still can't comprehend why the machines would destroy Zion and rebuild it. I mean what is hte point? It makes no sense to destroy something that you don't want just to rebuild it. The humans are trying to destroy the machines. The machines aren't going to tell Neo the truth. They will lie to him to confince them they are doing otherwise. Seems like a waste of resources to rebuild a real world over and over. Makes more sense if Zion was a Virtual Reality made to see how the humans could fight back. And if they have destroyed and rebuilt Zion in a real world they would know how to get their the quick way. They wouldn't have to bore.
On another note i just watched that scene and indeed the two guys have a paper or envelope when re-entering zion that I think is delivered to neo later from the oracle. te only thing is though they didn't say who they got it from before Smith assimilated that dude. I think mjust like skills and weapons can be downloaded into the matrix things can be brought out with people to be converted into disc for data retrieval by the intended like neo.
from a counter strike forum i visit... good explanations/opinions there....Quote:
***SPOILER***
Do not bitch about this ruining anything. You have been forewarned.
"Zion is basically the Recycle Bin. Zion was destroyed six times before, because that is what the one was written in for. As the architect said, 99% of people accept the Matrix without question. The Oracle is software written to monitor, who allows the matrix to be executed upon them and to help extradite the removal of the others, who do NOT accept, to Zion through "prophecy". Prophecy that is scripture written around the knowledge of who would be the next One. She got the humans to buy it, through prophetic manipulation of her followers including Morpheus. Once too many people fill up Zion, they have to empty the bin and start over. Why do they keep allowing Zion to be rebuilt and destroyed? Simple. The Matrix is not a closed system. People who have compromised the integrity of it by not accepting the internal programming are not welcome entities. If not taken out by agents, they can merely unplug themselves and retreat to a hole, an "anthole" if you will several hundred miles below the crust of the Earth, to be wiped away every so often. If you have variables in an array that compromise it's validity, it is preferable to pop themm off of the stack than to keep them in. And when Zion hits "critical mass", that is when the "One" is called back into the main OS to shut it down. One can not operate new software on a server without rebooting, which is Neo's simple task. He is the reset button. He allows the upgraded Matrix script (Revision Number 7, now) to go into effect, hopefully not being subject to an anomaly, a bug, which is what Neo is, albeit a bug intentionally put into the system to allow for the unexpected failure in groups of humans attached to the Matrix. I believe Agent Smith is the deciding variable. I think with Neo crossing with him, Neo has acquired a bit of him, and vice versa, and I think Agent Smith is the key to ending the cyclke, once and for all."
SPECIAL THANKS TO BLACKLODGE77 FOR COMPILING THAT EXPLANATION.
This comment was edited at 05/18/2003 1:41 AM
i can't sit here and read 13 pages worth of theories. but has anyone mentioned the theory about a matrix inside a matrix? i'm just curious as to peoples thoughts on that.
heres the whole architect script, as it is pretty important to this discussion...
ARCHITECT TRANSCRIPT:
Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably here.
Neo: You haven't answered my question.
Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker than the others.
Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me.)
Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.
Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.
Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.
Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
Architect: Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answer functioned it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left
unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.
Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bullshit.
Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire
human race.
Neo: You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.
Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, vis-a-vis love.
Neo: Trinity.
Architect: Apropo. She entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
Neo: No.
Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion, the door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple
and obvious truth: she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.
Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.
Architect: We won't.
if you did, you would know the answer to that, lol...Quote:
Originally posted by kaizix@21 May 2003 - 01:20
i can't sit here and read 13 pages worth of theories. but has anyone mentioned the theory about a matrix inside a matrix? i'm just curious as to peoples thoughts on that.
but we are seemingly leaning toward zion being almost a 2nd matrix, i think... but we dont know for sure... at least the zion, or real world we see at the end of reloaded, being a 2nd matrix.