Palestine Or Israel?

Rat,

Quote:

---

QUOTE 
Middle East experts say Arafat, who dislikes major rifts among Palestinians, was unwilling to risk a showdown with the increasingly popular suicide bombers, especially under pressure from Israel’s right-leaning prime minister, Ariel Sharon, who is reviled by Palestinians.


You want him replaced?

Are you mad?

---

No, are you?
I think Arafat's "interest" in the diplomatic process begins and ends with his own personal involvement.
Should Abbas be successful in forwarding the peace process, Arafat loses power.
Also, the proposed Palestinian constitution calls for the holding of free and democratic elections and the respecting of human rights, two conditions Arafat has shown zero interest in meeting.
If Arafat were sincerely interested in achieving a Palestinian state he would recognize that his continued presence is a factor in it's delay. He would publically and forcefully denounce Hamas, urge all Palestinians to support Abbas and step aside. I doubt that that will happen.

Quote:

---

Its the attitude of the Right Wing Israeli government and now the USA that is making the Pallestinian people more and more intollerant.

Look at the REASONS that support for Hamas is growing...its a fact that it is, but there are REASONS. Take those reasons away, and support falls off.

---

It is also due to support and aid from Syria and Iran. It would be Syria's ( a hereditary dictatorship) and Iran's (a theocracy) worst nightmare to have a democratic Arab state suddenly appear on their doorstep. As we type, students are demonstrating in Tehran and the mullahs don't seem terribly agreeable to the demands for democracy in Iran. A democratic Palestine would make their position untenable.
Take those reasons away and support may fall off, too.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by hobbes
If you are "pro-peace" why have you not attempted to find the middle ground with Clocker, who at no time has been "having a tantrum" or has needed to "calm down".

---

I have, by trying to get him to look at it from the opposite way round. i.e Palestinians being in the Jews position. I dont know if you've read all of this thread but he has lost the plot on more than one occassion.

I agree that the "laughing" bit was badly chosen but.. I've apologised for that already. It certainly wasnt intentional as it allowed him to ignore the question altogether. Hardly a 'victory' from my perspective.

Anyway getting back to it....

I think there are extremists on both sides who just want to kill civilians

I think that constant unquestioning US support regardless of Israeli atrocities increases the support for Hamas on the Palestinians side.

The Palestinian extremists would wipe out the Jews if the US dropped its support but NO ONE in this thread asides from clocker has even suggested that the USA should do that.

In a nutshell the Israelis get away with alot of stuff and it isnt even shown on most media channels. If it were any other country all hell would break loose. But because it rarely gets reported we have this consensus that its always those damn Palestinians who dont want peace, which therefore excuses any and all Israeli actions no matter how disgusting they are. This then increases Palestinian support for terror groups because democracy is doing nothing for them and so the cycle continues....

We've gotten to the position where people feel comfortable saying things like "Islam is evil" in public (on this forum) with little fear of criticism. I wonder what would happen if I stated "Judiasm is evil"? Unthinkable isnt it?

Anyway end of rant, end of my participation in this thread. I really cant see any consensus or agreement coming out of this no matter how patient/polite everyone is.

No malice intended here but... I genuinely think that some people participating in this thread are fuelled by hatred. Its as simple as that.

One final point for the US people reading this. Next time (if ever) you see a bunch of innocent Palestinian civilians (yes there is such a thing) killed in a totally unnecessary and indiscriminate attack... remember those are your hard earned tax dollars at work creating more terrorism for you guys to deal with in the future.

Quote:

---

One final point for the US people reading this. Next time (if ever) you see a bunch of innocent Palestinian civilians (yes there is such a thing) killed in a totally unnecessary and indiscriminate attack... remember those are your hard earned tax dollars at work creating more terrorism for you guys to deal with in the future.

---

Your final point is laughable :lol:
Raise my taxes!
I think it's quite necessarry to attack terrorists that exclusively attack civilians, and use almost just as exclusively children to do it.
Why don't you give us your opinion on that point?
What do you think of these terrorists using high school students for 99% of there attacks on innocent civilians?
This is the height of cowardice, don't you agree?

Thank you, hobbes.
Like cool water on a fevered brow, your post.

I was nearly overcome with the urge to stamp my foot. :P

BTW,EBP, where are you from?
I seriously doubt that the people of your country are any more unified on the questions of the Middle East than you think we Americans are. Our support of Israel is hotly debated from Congress to the corner bar.

I also think that I've managed to hold onto the plot fairly well. Your inability to persuade me ( to whatever the hell your point has been) by dazzling rhetoric does not reflect on my intellect or powers of concentration. ;)

Wow, full blown overt bias, should have been there from post one. Keeps credibility if you post your stance. You claimed to be unbiased and have lied.

There is nothing wrong with being pro-palestinean, in fact, I welcome the input of both sides. The problem stems from the inflexibility of religion, and when there is mortal conflict, compromise/resolution may not be possible.

Contrary opinion to yours does not indicate hatred, I have none, neither does Clocker. I think both sides are insane.

I want the name of the person fueled by hatred and not a generality.

Americans don't give a crap about Israel, but we have as many Jews here as in Israel and these people are influential in our government and thus our governmental policies reflect this.

You claim that the Jews are just as guilty of terrorism as the Palestinians, I will fully grant you this, if you wish.

This goes back to my point that peace is not desired and never will be achieved, until one side kills the other.


As far as Islam is concerned, it tends to be in conflict with the "freedom of religion" philosophy in America, particularly when part of the Palestinean charter avers that a goal is to kill the Jews (rather than accepting their right to practice their own religion).

As for the Jews, we have Seinfeld and Jon Stewart, funny likeable guys, so the American people have more "touchstones" with the Jews than the Palestineans. Many of my friends are Jewish, but I know them as people, not Jews and the fact that I am agnostic is not a problem for them.

My point is that Jews are real people to us, they don't act "crazy" or "cruel", they dress like us and speak English. As for Palestineans, they are those crazy people throwing rocks on TV.

I just wanted to point out how general American sympathy sides with Israel. Jews are real people, not images on the TV.

As for the intervention of the US, what should we do? Just tell me what you would like and I will give it some thought.

Respectfully and peacefully,

Hobbes


Added a link to illustrate my hatred http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthrea...?threadid=17747

Quote:

---

As far as Islam is concerned, it tends to be in conflict with the "freedom of religion" philosophy in America, particularly when part of the Palestinean charter avers that a goal is to kill the Jews (rather than accepting their right to practice their own religion).

---

Hobbes, have you read the new Palestinian Constitution?
It's easy to google ( sorry, see: new member title).
It looks like a wonderful thing and all references to eliminating Israel are gone. Human rights are included as are women's rights.
All wonderful.
And completely opposed to the way any Islamic state in the region is ruled.
Hence my concern re: Syria and Iran.

I don't know why I keep looking at this thread.

I think it's the slow-trainwreck mentality. ;)

:ninja:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by clocker@21 June 2003 - 03:59

Quote:

---

As far as Islam is concerned, it tends to be in conflict with the "freedom of religion" philosophy in America, particularly when part of the Palestinean charter avers that a goal is to kill the Jews (rather than accepting their right to practice their own religion).

---

Hobbes, have you read the new Palestinian Constitution?
It's easy to google ( sorry, see: new member title).
It looks like a wonderful thing and all references to eliminating Israel are gone. Human rights are included as are women's rights.
All wonderful.
And completely opposed to the way any Islamic state in the region is ruled.
Hence my concern re: Syria and Iran.

---

Its defenitly a step forward.

However the old charter was NOT "anti-jew" it was "anti-Israel".

Article 6 specifically states that Jews that were there already are classed as Pallestinians, people that came as part of the "Zionist Invasion" are the enemy...ie Israel.

If Israel had been a Christian State, they would still have been the enemy.


@ Clocker,

I do see your point re: Iran and Syria; funding comes from all over the region, and should be curtailed.

However this isnt since the mid '90s, this has been happening all along...

The increase in terrorism is since "The light at the end of the tunnel" was taken away from them....ie Israel (Sharron) unilaterally tearing up the previous Peace Process and reversing it.

The world has a choice:

Deal with the PLO, of which Arrafat is the leader, and which hasnt had a terrorist campaign in years (despite being attacked itself (Pallestinian Authority)) or deal with Hamas, which has the most support at the moment because the Pallestinian Authority is seen as not getting anywhere.

The trouble with dealing with Hamas is that its a Fundamental Organisation, that wants EVERYONE that is not practicing the Old Islamic Law (THEIR version) dead.

Israel is only the short term goal. Their long term Goal is the world...

In my opinion there is nothing you CAN negotiate with, with these people. At least the PLO is only a Nationalist Organisation...it can be negotiated with.

Negotiaiting with someone that was appointed, and isnt followed by any of the Pallestinians and so doesnt speak for any of them........seems a little backward, I mean none of them will listen. So whats the point?


So the answer appears to be (for me); let the Pallestinians SEE that the Pallestinian Authority is moving somewhere...give them the light at the end of the tunnel BACK.

This is not going to end terrorism overnight..nothing will. There are too many people wanting Vengeance for loved ones killed already, and there are the Religious Zealots (Hamas Hardcore) that will ignore it.

I think it will certainly turn the tide though, and in 10 years we may be back at the point we were 10 years ago....with the Majority of Pallestinians listening to the Authority, and then they CAN crack down on Hamas....if they tried at the moment, they'd lose the ensuing Civil War...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat Faced@21 June 2003 - 10:49

Quote:

---

The trouble with dealing with Hamas is that its a Fundamental Organisation, that wants EVERYONE that is not practicing the Old Islamic Law (THEIR version) dead.

Israel is only the short term goal. Their long term Goal is the world...

---

---

May I know where you get the idea that Hamas wants to take over the world? As far As I know,they only want their country to be free from zionists.....and I don't see anything wrong with that,Since they don't have much weopons other than rocks.I think it's only fair that they use other means (like "blowing themselves up") .

Salam/Peace :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by human_pet+21 June 2003 - 11:04--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (human_pet &#064; 21 June 2003 - 11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced@21 June 2003 - 10:49

Quote:

---

The trouble with dealing with Hamas is that its a Fundamental Organisation, that wants EVERYONE that is not practicing the Old Islamic Law (THEIR version) dead.

Israel is only the short term goal. Their long term Goal is the world...

---

---

May I know where you get the idea that Hamas wants to take over the world? As far As I know,they only want their country to be free from zionists.....and I don&#39;t see anything wrong with that,Since they don&#39;t have much weopons other than rocks.I think it&#39;s only fair that they use other means (like "blowing themselves up") .

Salam/Peace :) [/b][/quote]
I agree that theres nothing wrong with blowing themselves up. But getting some teenager to blow up a bunch of civilians is wrong. The true martyrs are the ones who blow up military targets.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by The Knife Thrower+21 June 2003 - 12:00--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Knife Thrower &#064; 21 June 2003 - 12:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Quote:

---

Originally posted by human_pet@21 June 2003 - 11:04
<!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced

---

Quote:

---

@21 June 2003 - 10:49

Quote:

---

The trouble with dealing with Hamas is that its a Fundamental Organisation, that wants EVERYONE that is not practicing the Old Islamic Law (THEIR version) dead.

Israel is only the short term goal. Their long term Goal is the world...

---

---

May I know where you get the idea that Hamas wants to take over the world? As far As I know,they only want their country to be free from zionists.....and I don&#39;t see anything wrong with that,Since they don&#39;t have much weopons other than rocks.I think it&#39;s only fair that they use other means (like "blowing themselves up") .

Salam/Peace :)

---

I agree that theres nothing wrong with blowing themselves up. But getting some teenager to blow up a bunch of civilians is wrong. The true martyrs are the ones who blow up military targets. [/b][/quote]
Civilians?um,correct me if i&#39;m wrong are they (civilians) also invaded the country?Who the heck told them that they can kick out the natives and make them refugees?I think Hamas are killing far more fewer civilians than the occupiers.

Salam/Peace

Salam/Peace :) :)

Human Pet,

Do you think that Hamas should support the newly proposed Palestinian Constitution?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by human_pet+21 June 2003 - 11:04--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (human_pet @ 21 June 2003 - 11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced@21 June 2003 - 10:49

Quote:

---

The trouble with dealing with Hamas is that its a Fundamental Organisation, that wants EVERYONE that is not practicing the Old Islamic Law (THEIR version) dead.

Israel is only the short term goal. Their long term Goal is the world...

---

---

May I know where you get the idea that Hamas wants to take over the world? As far As I know,they only want their country to be free from zionists.....and I don&#39;t see anything wrong with that,Since they don&#39;t have much weopons other than rocks.I think it&#39;s only fair that they use other means (like "blowing themselves up") .

Salam/Peace :) [/b][/quote]
I posted a link with the history and Goals of Hamas.

Hamas, although popular in Pallestine at the moment, did not even originate there. Its NOT a Pallestinian Organisation, fighting for their freedom from Israel. They are popular only because they fight Israel, while the PLO (Pallestine Authority) are seen as not fighting Israel at the moment.

Their goals are Fundamentalist Islamic, and they believe EVERYONE should be living by THEIR version of Islamic Law.

As they are Religious Fanatics, with a warped outlook on everyone not one of them, then its pointless &#39;negotiating&#39; with them...as we cannot give consetions to this sort of Organisation.

Neither I, nor anyone I know, wish to live by Islamic Law.....and thats the only thing they will settle for.

On the other hand, the PLO is a Nationalist organisation with stated goals that can be negotiated, and have been in the past. The Pallestinian Authority is widely believed to be the PLO in a civilized guise....as Arrafat is leader of the Authority, and if not still leader of the PLO...then certainly still has a lot of influence.

Christian and Islam are relatively same. Both religions believe in Adam and Eve. Both religions believe the theory of Adam and Eve. They believe in Noah, Mary, Jesus, David, Moses. They call
"Satan" "Sha-taan"
"Adam" "Aadum"
"Moses" "Mosa"
"David" "Daaud"
"Jesus" "Eesa"
"Mary" "Marium"
They even believe some of the stuff in the bible.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by clocker@21 June 2003 - 15:09
Human Pet,

Do you think that Hamas should support the newly proposed Palestinian Constitution?

---

Umm,Sorry,i&#39;ve not been reading the Newz Paper lately,when you say Palestinian Constitution,are you talking about the .... &#39;Road Map&#39; ? If you&#39;re talking bout the Road Map,I don&#39;t think it&#39;s right for other people to decide what to do with the land,it is for the natives to have a say, not other people,and btw ,I do not view that as a peaceful resolution but a form of surrender,and I do not support people who surrenders to their enemy...

Peace/Salam... :)

No, I&#39;m not talking about road maps.
I&#39;m talking about the Constitution


Edit: fix link

Quote:

---

Originally posted by human_pet+22 June 2003 - 12:51--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (human_pet @ 22 June 2003 - 12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-clocker@21 June 2003 - 15:09
Human Pet,

Do you think that Hamas should support the newly proposed Palestinian Constitution?

---

Umm,Sorry,i&#39;ve not been reading the Newz Paper lately,when you say Palestinian Constitution,are you talking about the .... &#39;Road Map&#39; ? If you&#39;re talking bout the Road Map,I don&#39;t think it&#39;s right for other people to decide what to do with the land,it is for the natives to have a say, not other people,and btw ,I do not view that as a peaceful resolution but a form of surrender,and I do not support people who surrenders to their enemy...

Peace/Salam... :) [/b][/quote]
You can support something that saves the lives of the people without supporting those that stole the land.

The two are not mutualy exclusive.


@ Clocker

That link doesnt work for me. Page not Available

Fixed link.
Retry.
www.jmcc.org/documents/palestineconstitution-eng.pdf+palestine+constitution&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]Or try here.[/url]

Borders Prior to June 1967....

That is, in effect, a recognition of Israel, and its right to be there....just not its current illegal borders, as recognised by UN resolutions

Its also a constitution based on Democracy, Free Market and Human Rights...including Religious Freedom.



And it was written at the request of.............the PLO.


ShockAndAwe........over to you.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat Faced@22 June 2003 - 17:33
Borders Prior to June 1967....

That is, in effect, a recognition of Israel, and its right to be there....just not its current illegal borders, as recognised by UN resolutions

Its also a constitution based on Democracy, Free Market and Human Rights...including Religious Freedom.



And it was written at the request of.............the PLO.


ShockAndAwe........over to you.

---

Pardon me for butting into line, Rat.

Hamas is going to gag on that constitution.

What is this "written at the request of the PLO&#39; all about?

Quote:

---

What is this "written at the request of the PLO&#39; all about?

---

Didnt you read the preface?

I believe you&#39;ll see it on page 5, after the list of consultants ;)


I agree with the Hamas comment though....they aint gonna like the "Religious Fredom" bit in particular.

I&#39;ve read that constitution, and they will never stick to it&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
If they did it would be a miracle. :blink:

Just a few notes here, as the board&#39;s being down has rendered my thoughts "un-syncable":

The first of two Mid-east summits held by President Bush, at Sharm el-Sheik, was a gathering of leaders of the Arab states; Bush&#39;s "Roadmap" proposal met with little reaction that could be characterized as positive-they would not even endorse Israel&#39;s right to exist as a Jewish state.

They did state an opposition to terrorism, but one would have to take this with a grain of salt given their proclivity for devoting much intellectual and religious reasoning to concurrently convince their native populations that killing Jews in "Palestine" should be considered resistance, not terrorism.

Neither would they endorse Mahmoud Abbas over Arafat as the head of the Palestinian state, thus depriving Abbas of the vote of confidence he needs to effectively press ahead with any coherent peace effort.

From all this it can rather safely be assumed the Arab states would prefer that the Palestinians none of them want in their own countries be offered an existence on par with, and, indeed, instead of, Israel.

Apparently, while nobody wants the Palestinians in their country, the Palestinians&#39; presence is still much preferred over that of Israel.

Jews all the way[COLOR=red] :ph34r: :P

Quote:

---

Originally posted by theprisoner@28 June 2003 - 11:45
Jews all the way[COLOR=red] :ph34r: :P

---

Quit waffling&#33; :P

im a jewish israeli and ill tell you what i think:
fat assed sharon should start wiv taking down those goddamn settlements which r ruining everything.
then, fat assed arafat and abu mazen should get those goddamn suiciders to hell and kill them.
and ONLY then will the peace process get going.
and ill tell you what?
come and visit israel, its a lovely place, no fear, do not fear of anything.
your chances of being killed by a sniper in the U.S.A are like 25 times higher than getting killed in israel...

Come visit, its great.
loadsa places to visit: dead sea, the golan hights, sea of galilee, jerusalem, eilat (most southern city in israel and probably most visited), my home town of Karmiel which hosts every year one of the biggest dance festivals in israel (3 nights and days) and is a town of 50,000.

a lot to do.
come visit,
tralalala

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tralalala@3 July 2003 - 08:17
im a jewish israeli and ill tell you what i think:
fat assed sharon should start wiv taking down those goddamn settlements which r ruining everything.
then, fat assed arafat and abu mazen should get those goddamn suiciders to hell and kill them.
and ONLY then will the peace process get going.
and ill tell you what?
come and visit israel, its a lovely place, no fear, do not fear of anything.
your chances of being killed by a sniper in the U.S.A are like 25 times higher than getting killed in israel...

Come visit, its great.
loadsa places to visit: dead sea, the golan hights, sea of galilee, jerusalem, eilat (most southern city in israel and probably most visited), my home town of Karmiel which hosts every year one of the biggest dance festivals in israel (3 nights and days) and is a town of 50,000.

a lot to do.
come visit,
tralalala

---

I think I like your attitude, Tralalala.

Will you consent to be our man on the scene? :D

hey, im your man.
i live here in israel, which i think is one of the most amazing and stunning countries on the globe to date.

you may ask me anything, but anything about the situation here and what is going on, and how everyone here feels aobut it.

hope i can be of any assistance,
tralalala

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tralalala@3 July 2003 - 08:59
hey, im your man.
i live here in israel, which i think is one of the most amazing and stunning countries on the globe to date.

you may ask me anything, but anything about the situation here and what is going on, and how everyone here feels aobut it.

hope i can be of any assistance,
tralalala

---

Superb.

I hope to avail myself of your views soon.

Oh-why not now?

Do you think Hamas, Al Aqsa, et.al. will ultimately abide by a peace agreement, long-term?

Do you think Arafat&#39;s time has passed?

Is he capable of relevance in a time of peace?

How do you feel about the historical anti-Zionist threat of annihilation?

Also, if you could satisfy my curiousity:

What does the average Israeli think of Benjamin Netanyahou?


BTW-the Lakers suck. :lol: :lol:

hamas, al aqsa, islamic jihad and the fatah will probably not agree for a long term peace treaty if they "wont get more land".
if there will be peace (god please bless us, we want peace&#33;), arafat will no longer be relevant for ANYTHING. only abu mazen who seems to be OK except the fact that he is one of those guys that do not agree that there was a holocaust...
anti-zionism? stuff it.
we, the jews, are the first religion, the religion the other 2 major religions (christianity and islam) came from, and we have been around for some 5000 years and we have survived. so if that is not enough, ill give you some more.

so is this enough for now?
lol
if you want any more info. im here for you nearly every day.

hope i helped,
tralalala

edit::
the AVARAGE israeli thinks netanyahu is not a disaster but could be better.
in my houshold, we think he is a creep.
he is annoying, lies, his financial suggestions are pathetically pathetic ( :) )
and all or most left wingers (like me) just do not trust or like him.
trust me (sorry for the expression), he is a peice of sh&#33;t who hasnt a clue about what hes talking aobut.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tralalala@3 July 2003 - 10:10
hamas, al aqsa, islamic jihad and the fatah will probably not agree for a long term peace treaty if they "wont get more land".
if there will be peace (god please bless us, we want peace&#33;), arafat will no longer be relevant for ANYTHING. only abu mazen who seems to be OK except the fact that he is one of those guys that do not agree that there was a holocaust...
anti-zionism? stuff it.
we, the jews, are the first religion, the religion the other 2 major religions (christianity and islam) came from, and we have been around for some 5000 years and we have survived. so if that is not enough, ill give you some more.

so is this enough for now?
lol
if you want any more info. im here for you nearly every day.

hope i helped,
tralalala

---

I&#39;m with you, here.

My prayers for the success of the process, and for you, too. ;)

How&#39;s that ceasefire working out? I saw one&#39;d been agreed to not too long ago.

:ninja:

correct.
all 3 terrorist groups (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Fatah which is arafats group...), have agreed for a 3 month ceasfire in which israel will get out of the occupied (sorry if im making spelling mistakes) territories (bethlehem, gaza, nablus and all those cities), and then, and only then will the peace process will get along with no interruption from these 3 groups (at least we hope).

right now, it seems to be working ok except the fact that around some of those settlements there were a few shooting incidences...

hope this clears it up for you MagicNakor,
tralalala

Certainly does. Just read in the paper that Bethlehem was being "abandoned," insofar that the Israelis were pulling out, although the Palestinian police officer interviewed didn&#39;t seem terribly optimistic it would last. I hope it works this time around.

:ninja:

i have an answer to your post question:

PALESTINE

tell me my good friend, what do you support with the palestinians?
the terrorism?
the killing?
the hiding between civilians?

you must understand that its abu mazen you support, not the terrorist groups.
abu mazen IS trying to stop terrorism unlike arafat (which i would rather refer to arafatso).

so, if you would kindly tell me if you support the first 3 things i mentioned at the top of this post and then make me think again, i would be happy.


p.s: i am an israeli and i know what im talking aobut, so convincing me that i am wrong may be a difficult procedure.

Picture removed by balamm



* I don&#39;t think so. If you have a comment to make that&#39;s fair but lets keep this a verbal exchange.

FLAMEBAIT

:ninja:

i think there is no land worth so many people dying, i think the leaders should lead their people to peace and happines not death as they have been doing so far :(

MUSLEMAN you are 100% correct.
if i were the leader i would have led the countries to peace long before...

but, the one let down was when Itzchak Rabin was assasinated on 4 november 1995. he was the prime minister that the whole country had faith in and he really was about to make peace till his tragic death.

nowadays, the leaders dont know what they are doing and we hope that there will be
peace one day in the not too distant duture...


hope i helped,
tralalala