It's ok, hap[pens to many people.. Easy to mis-post when typing something about a topic so "delicate"...
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It's ok, hap[pens to many people.. Easy to mis-post when typing something about a topic so "delicate"...
The jews who attacked the British and slaughtered innocent civilians were terrorists, you call them freedom fighters; the Palestinians who oppose the illegal occupation of their lands are called terrorists by you, they look far more like freedom fighters to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Quote:
THEY FLED THE COUNTRY IN 1948.
THEY NEVER RETURNED.
NOW THEY SUDDENLY WANT TO COME BACK TO GIVE US A HARD TIME.
NO WAY ARE ISRAEL OUT OF ORDER HERE.
Your last comment contradicts your 1st.Quote:
Israel is NOT rightfully theirs, never was, never will be.
Israel belongs to the Jews, and has done for 57 years, and thousands of years prior to that.
Why?
You fled thousands of years ago, now you all want to come back..
Seems you just lost yourself your own argument.
In addition, if you wish to go the religious route... didnt Jehovah tell you all to not come back to there when you all left?
The Jews that were there for centuries, and the Arabs that were there for centuries lived in peace with each other until the Jews started bombing the hell out of them and the British.
If we should not have dialogeaue with terrorists, then Israel wouldnt exist...as it was created with such dialogue with such terrorists.
The Facts:
Israel is in contravention of numerous UN resolutions.
Nations have been invaded and occupied for less, you get the truth told about your nation and dont like it.
Sky News is owned by News Corporation (Fox News)- Rupert Murdoch. If you think THEY are biased, then your quite correct... on the side of the Israeli's.
The BBC reports the actions of BOTH sides.. you may not like the fact they report the Israeli attrociaties AND the Palestinian ones but they do.
The Journalists have their own little website that says how unbiased the worlds news services are: Israel comes 135th in that list, the UK is in the low 20's.
If you want to know the TRUTH, as the Journalists want to report it.... read the Finnish Newspapers, as they have the most free/truthful press in the world.
Tralalala, the Palestinians helped teh Brits in WWII too.. and i always thought it was the world that was appalled at what was happening to the Jews, not the Jews were helping the allies. :ph34r:
OMG have you ever studdied history?!!?Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDeLeo
Open a history book, it won't hurt.....
"You invaded them in 1967"... did you ever hear why? All surrounders of Israel were planning to slaughter the Jews and drive them into the sea. Israel, with it's intelligence, managed to get that info and get them before they attacked - the whole Egyptian air force was demolished in 1 day. The war lasted 6 days (thus, the 6 day war). Israel took over the Sini desert as a result of the war, East Jerusalem, The Gaza Strip, The Golan Heights and the West Bank.
Since then, Israel has returned Sini to the Egyptians as part of the peace treaty in 1979.
Gaza will be returned to the Palestinians within 2 months, same with the West Bank.
East Jerusalem will currently remain under Israels authority until firther discussions.
The Golan Heights will remain Israel's forever. It was taken over to stop the Syrians from destroying Kibbutzim (villages) by bombing them from the mountains.
"Illegaly stole..." - I think you mean taken over by as a result of a WAR.
What about Falklands...?
I could easily say Britain illegaly stole land from Argentina..
Regugees illegaly driven from the country? The fled, ran away, there was WAR.
What happened in WW2? Jews fled too, they never went back did they? You don't see Jews sqeualing to go back and live in Germany or Austria or any other country invloved do you??
You say their land is their land - yup, Gaza strip and West Bank and East Jerusalem.
That is their land, always had been always will be.
The Jews you claim were terrorists actually attacked British soldiers - hardly innocent civilians.
I can't recall readin anywhere that British civilians ever lived in Israel, apart from the soldiers, who once again may I remind you did not do what they promised.
It's all a matter of readin THE FACTS.
@RF: I stand corrected.
What I meant is that what they claim as theirs sometimes, is the whole State of Israel, as well as the rest (Gaza, West Bank etc..).
They fled their land, and now want ours.
God was the one who brought us back to Israel from Egypt.... :dry:
"Jews started to bomb the hell out of them.." - Did you not read my post from before?
The Brits declared they would let Jews emigrate to Israel from Europe, and did they do that? Nope.
That is why Jews started attacking them, as Jews were stuck at sea with no land to go back to, and no land to get in to.
In 1939 all Arabs living in Israel decided to start screwing the Jews, and attacked them on the main routes to big cities (Jeruslalem, Tel Aviv, Tiberias etc..). That is why they were also attacked by the Jews.
About journalism: Did you never notice that all (or most) pics showed by those media stations are of an Israeli tank in front of a Palestinian kid with stones?
Now I ask myself -
A) wtf is that kid doing out? Give him some education instead.
B) Why do those channels never show the heads of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah in their big areas where they get together and shoot guns, make bombs, dress babies in their clothes with a Kalashnikov gun in his hand.. eh? That you never see......
And then you wonder why I say that they try to show Israel as the "bad people"...
This just in:
A suicide bomber killed 2 or 3 (not verified yet) and injured some 46 others, 6 of them critically, in the Netanya mall.
The Jihad claimed responsibility.
Yet anothe Muslim attack on innocent civilians in Israel......... This is the first attack since the mettings in Sharm El-Sheikh (almost a year ago).
You really are trying to eat your cake and have it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Yet another ... implying it is a regular occurance.
(almost a year ago) .... implying that the attacks are infrequent.
You can't really use the same fact to support opposing views you are trying to put forward.
Yet another does not mean it happens every day.
This is attack number god knows how many in Israel, that's why I used that phrase.
Yes, in the past 2 years it is infrequent, but in general, attacks on Israel are generally a thing that happens every now and again.
It used to be twice a week, it is now once a year, yes, not as frequent, but it still happens.
My sympathies with the families of those involved. :(
There are currently over 100,000 Jews in Germany, however i'd agree that at the moment i'd rather be in a different country to Austria at the moment if i were Jewish (currently 10,000).. or a member of any other minority for that matter.Quote:
You don't see Jews sqeualing to go back and live in Germany or Austria or any other country invloved do you??
The "Freedom" Party has altogether too much power there, and its pretty obvious what tendancies this party has :(
I'm not trying to be "Anti-Israeli" Tralala.. however, until you can see yourselves through the eyes of your enemies, then it doesnt matter how much talking is done, you wont understand the hate and there wont be peace.
That works for both sides in the conflict, even when you think that the issues are "Self Evident". They believe they are in the right, just as much as you do.. and the evidence does not place Israel as "Can do no wrong", sorry to say.
As to religion:
I was on about the despirtion of the tribes throughout the world, and told only to return when you followed ALL of the Commandments.
Last i heard; Thou Shalt Not Kill, is still a Commandment and there are still Divorces in Israel for Adultary, people go to jail for Theft etc etc.
Therefor, by your own religious Texts, you arent yet due to return to "The Promised Land"... your still Human. :P
I think the only way agreement will be reached is if Israel withdraws to the Mandate boundaries and some sort of 'defence' agreement is signed by all concerned.
It has to come. Whether it be next year or next century. America is now being 'nudged' into acceptance along those lines. Too many countries are demanding a settlement.:)
[QUOTE=Rat Faced]My sympathies with the families of those involved. :(
Only 10 were sent out of Israel.Quote:
As to religion:
I was on about the despirtion of the tribes throughout the world, and told only to return when you followed ALL of the Commandments.
Last i heard; Thou Shalt Not Kill, is still a Commandment and there are still Divorces in Israel for Adultary, people go to jail for Theft etc etc.
Therefor, by your own religious Texts, you arent yet due to return to "The Promised Land"... your still Human. :P
2 remained and always did: Judea and Benjamin.
The rest are what are now known as the lost tribes.
And about the other matter: What is your suggestion then?
@BB:
It will come within 2-3 years, my promise :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBob the 4 ft Tall Giant
Ummmm, isn't that the "rodamap"??
That's what Israel is currently in process of coordenating with the Palestinian Authority :duh:
No, its not.
Israel will keep some of the West Bank.
The Paestinians want all their land.
Even if Israel substitutes some of its own land in compensation for the land they keep.. it wont work. (and they would never do this)
They dont want YOUR land, they want THEIR land.
And on top of this; what about Jeruselem?
Right, I see what you mean:
There is a big city across the green line (not far across though) called Ariel.
There is no way we could possibly transfer this city.
Instead, Palestine will receive a nice portion of different land at the south of the West Bank.
About Jeruslaem:
I am not too sure, as I do not know what is going on right now, I will try and find some info. about this and will keep you posted.
This report says the last suicide attack was on the 25th of february... :huh:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4677695.stm
However, it does seem that the security guards did their job, in not letting the guy into the mall...
Their land?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Are you aware of the fact that some of "their land" used to be desert, and pretty much uninhabitable.
The Israelis have, inch by inch, cultivated and otherwise put considerable work into making some of it what it is today.
Not sure there had been as much fuss, had it still been desert.
Well, I must say that if bloody Arafat hadn't put away his billions of dollars in bank accounts in Switzerland, and had used it to cultivate and help out the Palestinians, I bet you there would have been peace even before Rabin was murdered...
BTW colin, that link you gave me got me the article about the explosion in Netanya, the one that took place yesterday.... :huh:
Yeah I know, but in that article it said about there being about 4 months peace since the previous suicide bomb...Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Well, it must have been some shooting insidence in the West Bank or somethig (serves those maniac settlers right for not moving out of there).
The last major bombing INSIDE Israel was a long time ago, considering the ammount of attacks we've had...
Suicide bomb attack on a nightclub in Tel Aviv - 25/02/05Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Images of suicide bomb attack
follow-up article
another follow-up article
an article the following week
another article about the same event
Did the BBC just invent this one then?? :unsure:
I remember the bombing of some cafe within the past year. :huh:Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
So if l steal your car and put new tyres on it, l can claim it as mine?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Most of the "desert' is sitting on top of water, aquafers, in total the "desert" they stole contains over 60% of the Palestinian's water, which they sell back to them for many times the price they charge the Jewish settlers.
Stealing land is srealing, and illegal under international law, it makes not one iota of difference if it's desert or rainforest.
Did Britain steal land from American Indians? Did the USA?Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDeLeo
Did we steal America from Britain?
Did Britain steal land from countless others.
@Busyman: Yeah, the bombing at "The Stage" club// it was almost a year ago :) :(
@Rio: You don't seem to want to listen to anyone do you..
First off, the water in that aquafer is pollouted, and has been for a very long time (yes, by the Palestinians that live above it). So I don't think bad water will do them much good don't you? ;)
And second: Once again, for maybe the tenth time - Israel was at war with 3 different countries, we managed to not only win the war, but also capture the land you are talking about - that is what war does, people take lands and lose lands.
An example - World War 1... (Versay agreements tell you anything?).
So, Israel wins a war, wins land, and cultivates parts of it. You can't give back ALL of the cultivated land 40 years later, that is ludicrouse.
That is why Israel is offering the southern part of the West Bank to seal the deal, and I don't see why that should matter.. the Aquafer is under both areas, both areas a deserts, and, ummm, the only difference is the peoplesthat live there.
Take your own advice kid, something other than Israeli ones. Study UN resolutions Israel has ignored over the years while you're at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Your attitude, which l find quite typical, is a sympton of all that is wrong in your country. Your air of superiority is sickening.
l'm sick of listening to you Rafi, or whatever your name is, you talk nothing but bullshit Israeli propaganda. Where you get crap like that about the aquafer water is beyond me, l don't think you're intelligent enough to make that crap up, so someone is probably pumping it into you. l just hope this gets cleared up one way or the other so people like you can settle down and stay where you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
Is this going anywhere? :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
I don't know. Is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDeLeo
You probably can look under your own feet and see stolen land. :ermm:
Kudos to the Nederlanders...
They build new land out of the sea ! :01:
It's nothing like stealing a car.Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDeLeo
First of all, as tralala says, legally it was conquest. War-time rules and all that.
And the civilians involved today aren't responsible for driving anyone off, for the most part, as far as they are concerned, they (or rather their grandparents and parents) settled empty areas.
(Not counting illegal settlements of course, which is a whole 'nother thing, and not condoned by everyone in israel.)
Second of all, the aquifers you mention stretch past Israeli territory (I think). I'm fairly certain it would be possible to drill down from Palestinian territory.
But Israel does oppose that on some fairly dodgy grounds (one being that the palestinians don't have the resources to preserve the integrity of the aquifers and thus would be risking mixing saltwater in the freshwater), this is true.
But yes, it is about water more than it's about land. For the governments involved (the nutters with the bombs probably don't get exactly what they are fighting for). The definition of what is their land is pretty fluid. What water they are entitled to is more concrete, though. All the water they need, perhaps. If I'm not mistaken Israel is, on directions from the UN, supposed to compensate Palestine for water lost, how far they are complying with this today, I'm not sure of, though.
Also, there's a considerable cost involved in drilling down and extracting the water safely, it could be that Palestine can't afford it. Of course, if they could claim back "their land", they'd have pre-built Israeli installations paid for by Israel. And wouldn't that be practical.
Did you really just say....Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
...words to the effect of...
"their land is fluid and their water is concrete" ???
Excellent!! :w00t: :tease: :clap:
There is no legal Law of Conquest, this was something done in the past BEFORE countries started talking and being civilized and created International Laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
If you followed that argument, the only countries in Europe are the UK, Russia and USA plus the ones that stayed neutral in the last war.
Tje question is Rio, where do you get your crap from? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDeLeo
No one is forcing you into this thread mate...
and about your previouse post: Typical superiority? The way our countryis?
Go on then, what's your suggestion - what should we do instead of what is going on now?
Suggesting to give back "thier land" is going nowhere, give us a proper, full explained suggestion.
@SnnY:
Israel is giving millions of dollars yearly to encourage the growth of the Palestinians ability to get the water they don't have, and to help victims of thier own problems.
Yes, the aquafers are also in Israels land :)
Again - the land they will get will be sort of empty, but Israel will of course pay the cost of building basic machines for getting water, and building houses and co.
Yep :DQuote:
Originally Posted by barbarossa
@Rat: What I meant was that once the situation had stabilized after the war, the people who inhabited the place were the Israeli and that, since it was a war situation, there were no working laws in the transition period.
Had the french fled france, and the country been settled by Germans, and the Germans won the war. France had been Germany.
If there are no laws during one period, possession is nine tenths of the law, once the dust settles, and the winner sets the terms, it's how it has worked throughout history.
Not saying I like it, but you might as well call it conquest.
i'm pretty certain he's a descendent of crooks in a stolen country anyway :stuart:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
if land is taken in war, then isreal is at war with palastine. does this mean the terrorists aren't terrorists?
As Rat Faced has pointed out, there is no legal right to confiscate or occupy land taken in a war.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Resolution 446 (1979)
Easy, abide by United Nations resolutions, as you insist other countries do. Get back to the pre-1967 borders and vacate the land you illegally occupy. And if this is "going nowhere", as you suggest, it's because Israel is not prepared to do what is right. Thankfully most of the world is against you, it's just a pity more places aren't prepared to boycott the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tralaland
Here you go Tralalal, a few things you can take notice of to help you understand why so many people are against your country for the way it treats the Palestinians and it's other neighbours. l wonder if we would now be waging a War on Terror if Israel had complied with UN resolutions from the beginning?
Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.
Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.
Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.
Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.
Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.
Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.
Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.
Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.
Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.
Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.
Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.
Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.
Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.
Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.
Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.
Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.
Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.
Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.
Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.
Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.
Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.
Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.
Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.
Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights
is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.
Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.
Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.
Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
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Of course, you could just ignore what the rest of the world wants and act like God's chosen people.
I already answered that in part.Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDeLeo
Israel is only doing what other countries like the US are doing, ie: going by their own laws instead of UN's resolutions, when the war was over they lived there, after all. Also, the people that live there now aren't the same people that lived there in 1967, people have had time to live there and grow old since the area was taken, while many palestinians, whose land it is according to you, then, have never set foot on the same soil in their lives.
If we are going to start demanding that large populations be moved from areas that their ancestors stole from others, we'll have to evacuate the US, Australia, the north of Sweden and so on, depending on how far back in history you'd like to go.
And furthermore, palestinian terrorism, or freedom fighting if we'll go by your definition, is equally contradictory to the UN's wishes, and seeing as how PLO was/is a big player in Palestine's government and was responsible for terror attacks in the past and most likely condones and possibly has a stake in the occasional attack today, and presumably has a considerable backing from the people, the powers that be in both countries have issues with following the UN's recommendations.
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
All we can do now is make sure no new land is "stolen"....anywhere.