Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Well then, I'm ready for another topic. Thanks for all of your input, or is that inputs?
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
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Originally Posted by hobbes
I'm sorry, but the original poster was complaining that 6 million pounds of tax money was being given to build a private interest school in his area and he was objecting that his tax dollars go to fund something that he doesn't want and serves to separate, rather than unite the community.
If the community is fully vested in schools, the construction of another one is superfluous and just caters to special interests. Rat had argued that the money given cover the "state curriculum" only, but I say the 6 million is being spent on a school which is not needed. That is simply giving 6 million away so that people can continue to create their little Sihk world in the UK. I would be appalled that my money was being spent in such a way.
I have been attempting to test the limits of such a policy by asking where this stops. Maybe we could have an Italian school, an Indian school, a Chav school (or is that and oxymoron). Nice way to segregate your community.
Many foreign cultures do loathe to give up their traditions. My experience is that it is a major conflict in Indian families. As an example, the children want to marry who they meet, their parents want it to be arranged. The adult Indians which to segregate their children, so as not to be tempted by outside influences. A friend was told to get rid of his white girlfriend or be disowned by his family. My Muslim collegue took his female child from school because he feared that she would taste the freedom and learn the attitude of the American woman. In his culture women are property, in fact, he had 2 wives. So people do have strong desires to keep their heritage alive. That is natural, but I see no reason for the local government to support that.
Jpol, I take it you've heard of West Side Story. Certainly those Italians didn't want to mix with those Puerto Ricans. We have a long history of racial segregation in the US, which has been quite divisive. I just hate to see you guys going down that same path. You know, learn from history and all that.
I, of course, have consistently supported the parents right to choose where their children go to school, why that was brought up is beyond my understanding. I just think it should be out of their pockets if they want a special school, not out of mine.
I grew in a suburb with 3 elementary schools. Had the Jews wanted to build a fourth, we would have said "fine". Had they then asked for my money to build it I would have declined. "We don't need it, it serves no purpose to me. You want it, you build it." Had we needed an extra school because of class size issues, I would want the new school to be open to everyone. Sure anyone CAN technically go to the Jewish school, but what Catholic parents would send their children there. It is an exclusionary school using my money.
The final point is this.
In a sikh school, 2+2=what, how is "the" spelled, do they learn to read? Yes, they do. This is the purpose of education.
What role does religion have in meeting the educational goals of the State? None.
So why are religions invoved in schools?
Why can't I request 6 million pounds to build a school based on fried chicken. I want a place for my kids to grow and learn under the auspices of a chickenocentric curriculum which also fulfills the State requiremnets.
Fried chicken has nothing to do with the State curriculum, but then again neither does religion. Both should be equally worthy of public funds.
Would I be considered rash if I told chicken man to build his own school. Would I be rash to tell a "white supremist" to fund his own school. Why this special treatment of religion?
In summary, I disagree with the policy as it supports segregation and because education and religion are as related as fried chicken and education.
Logical Post Of The Thread. ;)
I agree though that if the UK likes it that way, so be it.
In America, private schools still have to have the state curriculum but also are privately funded. Parents pay the required tuition. I, the taxpayer, pay nothing for another child to learn Catholism, for example. Take note of some our colleges...you have Catholic University, Army, and Navy. Guess what extra teaching you get in those colleges but.......the individual pays for it.
There is a wrinkle that is being debated right now....school vouchers. It seems the UK is way past that and basically takes taxpayer money outright for private or should I say specialized schools.
NIMBY
You want your child to learn Catholism along with math, take 'em to church more often and put up the funds for tuition to that private school.
The wrinkle here is that there could be a Jewishm, Sikh, and hobbes' Jedi school in the area of where I live and.....I have to pick one....but I like none of them. :no:
Someone mentioned segregated schools....there are none in America.
There are predominately white, black, hispanic, etc. schools but no such thing as "separate but equal."
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
busy...just checking....you do understand that the british tax payer does NOT pay for the "religious" part? ...they just pay an allowance for the national curriculum. which they would pay anyway if it was just a state school
Quote:
The wrinkle here is that there could be a Jewishm, Sikh, and hobbes' Jedi school in the area of where I live and.....I have to pick one....but I like none of them.
.there would be a state school. The "independent" schools have to be viable to qualify for state help if it is a new construction.... and they do actually benefit the tax payer as they are a cheaper choice than the state bearing the full cost of a new school
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
busy...just checking....you do understand that the british tax payer does NOT pay for the "religious" part? ...they just pay an allowance for the national curriculum. which they would pay anyway if it was just a state school
Yes but no. I'm not exactly sure what the state (in America)contributes for private school (if any) but the parent bears the brunt of payment. It doesn't seem this way in the UK.
.there would be a state school. The "independent" schools have to be viable to qualify for state help if it is a new construction.... and they do actually benefit the tax payer as they are a cheaper choice than the state bearing the full cost of a new school.
Riiiight they are cheaper on the taxpayer because of the 10% thingie. That is paltry when the government is 90% funding a "Sikh" school. Oh I forgot...the Sikh part is only worth 10%. :lol: :lol: :lol:
hobbes' made very good points. I could start a 10% Jedi Academy or 10% white history college. I still have the regular curriculum of American history (and a little black history in February :dry: ), but a gain a full extra 10% of white history. :w00t:
:dry:
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Riiiight they are cheaper on the taxpayer because of the 10% thingie. That is paltry when the government is 90% funding a "Sikh" school. Oh I forgot...the Sikh part is only worth 10%. :lol: :lol: :lol:
hobbes' made very good points. I could start a 10% Jedi Academy or 10% white history college. I still have the regular curriculum of American history (and a little black history in February :dry: ), but a gain a full extra 10% of white history. :w00t:
:dry:
No there had to be a need for a new school to begin with because of the size of the population...they don't just build new schools because someone wants one. So the saving is made because they put forward an acceptable business plan. BTW. the same goes with tech. schools.
the school ideas put forward by hobbes would be rejected because they are silly or socially unacceptable
the funding %'s you speak of was the build cost...not the running cost.
My niece goes to a church school in England....the difference between her school and the one down the road?...they have a religious morning assembly and as a condition for attendance she has to go to church a minimum amount of times per term.
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
No there had to be a need for a new school to begin with because of the size of the population...they don't just build new schools because someone wants one. So the saving is made because they put forward an acceptable business plan. BTW. the same goes with tech. schools.
the school ideas put forward by hobbes would be rejected because they are silly or socially unacceptable
the funding %'s you speak of was the build cost...not the running cost.
My niece goes to a church school in England....the difference between her school and the one down the road?...they have a religious morning assembly and as a condition for attendance she has to go to church a minimum amount of times per term.
The author of the initial post made no comment that a new school was needed.
If more schools are needed, it is up to the state to ante up, not to give money to private interests to build thier own schools.
A religion creating a school as a means of recruitment is completely inappropriate, just as a school based on chicken is inappropriate. These are private interests invading the public domain. Neither provide any service in regard to the goal of education.
Some corporations donate to schools to encourage them to enter their field, but these corporation get no money from the government and are not allowed to change the curriculum.
I mean seriously, given a national or state budget, how critical is the need for religious endorsement to provide an adequate number of schools. They are absolutely not needed.
Where is the Microsoft highschool? Certainly Bill Gates could help out the State more than any religion. Why can't he have one, funded by the public, with computer classes that he funds.
We don't like private interests meddlig with our kids, I guess.
They offer their services, with support from the state, to further thier agendas. Their assistance is not needed and they are fuctioning as a divisive aspect in a community.
BTW Vidcc, what do mean by socially unacceptable. Why would people object to teaching about chicken? If you are referring to "white supremists", they would phrase their goals to appear socially acceptable. Where does it stop?
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
No there had to be a need for a new school to begin with because of the size of the population...they don't just build new schools because someone wants one. So the saving is made because they put forward an acceptable business plan. BTW. the same goes with tech. schools.
the school ideas put forward by hobbes would be rejected because they are silly or socially unacceptable
the funding %'s you speak of was the build cost...not the running cost.
My niece goes to a church school in England....the difference between her school and the one down the road?...they have a religious morning assembly and as a condition for attendance she has to go to church a minimum amount of times per term.
Yes, here that's called private school. The way you say it...a Jewish school, Catholic school, military school, Sikh school, Islamic school, etc., are just neighborhood schools. That's preposterous.
Schools should teach without religion involved, otherwise receive no government money. In essence, government is selling out to religion because of classroom size. :blink:
btw I think a Sikh school even partially built with my taxpayer money is unacceptable. Good thing I don't live in the UK but alas we have our own school voucher debate here in the states.
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
The author of the initial post made no comment that a new school was needed.
so what?
If more schools are needed, it is up to the state to ante up, not to give money to private interests to build thier own schools.
But it is the wish of the community the school is placed in
A religion creating a school as a means of recruitment is completely inappropriate, just as a school based on chicken is inappropriate. These are private interests invading the public domain. Neither provide any service in regard to the goal of education.
It isn't a means of recruitment as the children would already be of that religion...unless you think that parents have no rights raising their children in regards to religion
Some corporations donate to schools to encourage them to enter their field, but these corporation get no money from the government and are not allowed to change the curriculum.
the religion recieves no money from the government... the same applies...what do you think is different?
I mean seriously, given a national or state budget, how critical is the need for religious endorsement to provide an adequate number of schools. They are absolutely not needed.
Again the state does not pay for anything other than the national curriculum and it give parents a wider choice...a wider choice for all parents, not just those that can afford private schools
Where is the Microsoft highschool? Certainly Bill Gates could help out the State more than any religion. Why can't he have one, funded by the public, with computer classes that he funds.
Bill Gates (microsoft) already sponsers computer education and i am sure any community would be more than happy to have him help fund a new school.
We don't like private interests meddlig with our kids, I guess.
They offer their services, with support from the state, to further thier agendas. Their assistance is not needed and they are fuctioning as a divisive aspect in a community.
If their assitance is not needed how come so many have waiting lists and parents register their children practically from birth in hope of securing a place? I guess i should say it may not be needed but it is wanted
BTW Vidcc, what do mean by socially unacceptable. Why would people object to teaching about chicken? If you are referring to "white supremists", they would phrase their goals to appear socially acceptable. Where does it stop?
the chicken school would be a "silly" one and the "white supremists" would be a good example of socially unacceptable, even if their goals were rephrased it wouldn't take much to see through it....look at how you saw through the stickers on the evolution text books.....
the state does not pay for special interests.
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Yes, here that's called private school. The way you say it...a Jewish school, Catholic school, military school, Sikh school, Islamic school, etc., are just neighborhood schools. That's preposterous.
In the Uk they are... i am well aware of the US school system, i spend a lot of time on my childrens education
Schools should teach without religion involved, otherwise receive no government money. In essence, government is selling out to religion because of classroom size. :blink:
i didn't suggest the government "sells out" i said the tax payer benefits...and i said that if there wasn't a NEED for a new school then the only way a religious school would be built is through raising all the money themselves
btw I think a Sikh school even partially built with my taxpayer money is unacceptable. Good thing I don't live in the UK but alas we have our own school voucher debate here in the states.
i see no problem with government grants if the state requirements are met.
I too believe that state run schools should be free from specific religious theory teaching, however i see no problem with the state paying for the compulsory education curriculum in such schools.
Of course if that school charges parents fees then any amount the school charges should be taken off of what the state pays.
Re: Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
the chicken school would be a "silly" one and the "white supremists" would be a good example of socially unacceptable, even if their goals were rephrased it wouldn't take much to see through it....look at how you saw through the stickers on the evolution text books.....
the state does not pay for special interests.
In the Sikh school case.....90% funded.
The point is if the Sikh's want a school, they should totally build it. Not use other taxpayer money to teach religion which they are undeniably doing. Separate church and state...right? This is clear sell out.
Good point about Microsoft but then again, computer education was always there. Someone else pays for it in MS' case. Computers are part of school. If Microsoft wanted to fund the whole school facility, I say let them go at it......but they have no say in the curriculum. Even then there is the possiblity of corruption. Allowing MS a say is bending over to special interests for cash...even if it's cash for the state.
The Sikh idealogy, in this case, is the special interset.
