Agreed...Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
Peace bd ;)
Printable View
Agreed...Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
Peace bd ;)
I take it this news is BS too ?
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06...nal.aid.flows/
Sorry for taking it personal but what does supplies ,ships, helicopter's and personnel cost ?
Example :
Some of the aid is already being put to use. MREs (meals ready-to-eat) from Germany and Italy are being distributed and medical assistance from Italy is being accepted. Planes and helicopters from Canada and Singapore are being used to transport evacuees. Emergency supplies from Britain, Japan and Mexico also are being delivered.
Canada is also sending three naval ships and a Coast guard vessel packed with supplies and 1,000 military personnel to the disaster area.
The United States is also awaiting the arrival of two Greek cruise ships to house evacuees.
Don't know why I can't let this go .....but moneys cheap use that for the rebuilding its going to take, mabye years if ever . Be thankful for the countries that gave their " people " and resourses to help. You can't put that in the bank . The poor soldier (insert country ) looking for aunt Mables dog gone missing . ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by peat moss
Peat, thank you for posting this link. I cried with tears of gratitude. I thought highly of Canadians before reading this. But even more so now. Your Country's rolling up their sleeves and working alongside us is appreciated.........actually any Country or individual's sincere show of concern and care right now help more than you know.
Thanks. So Much.
Rose, said it best. So, I'm just going to quote her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
Peace bd
Quote:
EU Backs Up Beleaguered US
Europe sends aid for New Orleans
Following a US appeal for assistance on 4 September, 13 EU countries are sending aid to deal with the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Experts teams (medical, logistics, communication, search and rescue), equipment (tents/blankets, water purification equipment, water pumps, meals, generators), and transport are now heading across the Atlantic.
Austria and Belgium have sent crisis intervention teams, the Netherlands has offered a naval frigate loaded with fresh drinking water, while Germany and the UK have sent over half a million ready meals (full list attached below).
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin has said as many as 10,000 people may have lost their lives in the ferocious hurricane and subsequent flooding. In response to the disaster, two former Presidents aim to help victims with a Clinton-Bush Katrina Fund, along the lines of the Tsunami relief fund they organised earlier in the year.
New York Senator Hillary Clinton and her husband have also proposed a Congressional enquiry into the response from the federal government, along the lines of the 9/11 probe. Mr Clinton told CNN: "Our government failed those people in the beginning, and I take it now there is no dispute about it. One hundred percent of the people recognize that - that it was a failure".
For now, though, the focus is still on bailing out the beleaguered city, as relief flows in from around the world.
Howard Hudson,
6 September 2005
Austria
“Crisis Intervention Team” from the Austrian Red Cross:
Team was deployed on 1st September 2005 in Houston/Texas and will stay at least till 9th September 2005.
Set up of a communication network using IT and communication equipment for assistance/support.
10 sets petrol driven dirty water pumps
500 pieces tarps/plastic sheeting
300 camp beds
Belgium
3 Medical teams of 31 personnel
Logistic team of 10 personnel
Coordination team of 4 personnel
Civil engineering team of 10 personnel
Diving team
Balloon-lamps
Low and high capacity pumps
Small generators
Denmark
Water purification units
Finland
Search and Rescue team of 30 personnel
France
Material prepositioned in the Antilles, including 300 tents, 980 field beds, jerricans and soap, 60 generators, 3 water purification plants, 30 pumps and other material. The material will be accompanied by a team of 12 persons.
Germany
Germany has sent 40.000 meals and is currently sending another 30.000 on bilateral basis. Expert teams will be deployed as well.
Italy
300 Adult camp beds
300 blankets
600 sheets
1 suction pump
6 liferafts
11.200 chlorine tablets
5 units of large first aid kits
baby food formula
Luxembourg
Team of five persons as of Tuesday, with two jeeps.
1000 camp beds and 2000 blankets.
Malta
Material and cash (no details supplied)
Netherlands
The NL ready to offer assistance.
Has offered 3 (giant) waterpump installations
A Navy-vessel (fregat Van Amstel) containing fresh drinkingwater supplies/medical supplies/helicopters/beds,etc is en route towards New Orleans.
Romania
2 Teams of medical experts
Sweden
First Aid Kits, Blankets, Meals Ready to Eat, Generators, Plastic sheeting.
2 heavy water purification plants and instructors for their use.
Equipment for restoring the cell phone net in disaster areas.
Sweden has an aircraft ready for immediate deployment.
UK
500,000 Meals Ready to Eat (MREs) in process of being moved.
Medical experts
Urban Search and Rescue equipment, incl. rigid inflatable boats
Marine engineers and high-volume pumps
Skilled personnel including engineers who could support recovery efforts for installations and systems, Technicians, staff trained in disaster management and emergency response activities.
Source: European Commission
Ah yes, Europe hardly donated anything :dry:Quote:
Originally Posted by knobber
Being one of the richest countries in the world, you shouldn't need anyone's fucking money, just initial people/supplies etc to sort out the mess your Gov't couldn't/wouldn't prepare for.
http://www.democracyarsenal.org/2005...a_the_glo.html
Maybe you should have a read of that too Evey, BD and F1 :dry:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kervick | Sep 7, 2005 1:18:39 AM
I think that European leaders decided exactly the same as I did:Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula1
I think if you substitute 'I' meaning manker for 'I' meaning any European leader, the sentiment will hold true.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
When did Donations become something that you expect. America should be expecting fuck all in donations and should be sorting out it's own problems. If anyone donates the Government should be very pleased, no matter how much or how little. You seem to expect everyone in the world to donate money to you just because you didn't put enough money into protecting yourself. Jog on America.
Well, it only becomes sarcastic if you are going to be hypocritical about your position that the man at the top should shoulder the blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Now that's ironic.
Careful, lynx.Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
The stock answer to that kind of statement so far is drivel akin to 'Omg, you think Bush can cause hurricanes!!11BBQ'
:dry:
:huh: Formula 1 posts something he heard on Fox News, and LAUGHS at what he heard. Brother Doobie and I state we are aware of it but will keep our thoughts on it to ourselves and now apparently conclusions have been jumped to about what we are feeling and thinking? No one bothers to ask us for clarification before telling us that we are ungrateful, our countrymen do not deserve even your concern because their government sucks and they are citizens of one of the richest countries on earth?
:unsure: wow.
No offence, you're a lovely lady, but I've always thought it particularly bad form to post something indicating that you're not going to say what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
Of course, others will draw conclusions. I didn't comment directly but my own conclusion was that you thought the European countries were pretty reprehesible for not donating. Hence my post above - I didn't directly address yourself and BD, because I couldn't be sure what you thought, however, F1 did ask for comments.
So I posted some.
manker you got some nerve making a "don't judge me, I'll do what I want post" and then you go on to say how you respect Everose but that you are going to use your post to pass judgement on her. Shame on you, that's pretty low.
Here's a very unique idea: let's stop attacking each other and pointing fingers and just say your peace. If you don't agree with someone, fine. Regardless of popular belief, that is a very natural human thing to do. But quit taking shots at each other.
Ok now the mayor of the city has issued a mandatory evacuation of the city of N.O. Everyone must go because of the health concerns. Everyone who won’t go will be forced to go by local authorities. Why doesn’t anyone ask the mayor why he didn’t enforce the mandatory evacuation before the storm? If the N.O.P.D would have had the authority before the storm arrived to do this we wouldn’t even be in this mess. Guess who is in charge of issuing that authority? The mayor.
And don’t anyone tell me that they had no means to get them out of there either.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...k_Hank/Bus.jpg
The mayor had all of these buses at his disposal and didn’t use one of them and now they are all ruined from the floodwaters.
Why didn't the President order him to issue a mandatory evacuation order if they all knew how bad it was going to be? :unsure:
Everose, would you care to tell me then what you meant by this post?
Sounds like you think bad things but are keeping quiet about it to me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by everose
No one figured this would happen to this degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBank_Hank
Hindsight 20/20. I agree with you that forced evacuations would have saved lives. It would have been unprecedented too.
I agree with your main point but whotf are you talking to? :huh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peerzy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Maybe he isn't and is just putting his opinion across? :unsure:
Well I hope that J2 immediately calls upon Gods resignation forthwith...Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Dan, your wrong mate.
Bush doesnt have the authority to order the evacuation of New Orleans until after the DHS declares it a National Emergency effecting the entire nation or something like that. The Mayor is the highest authority in the City.
However, im unsure as to whether the Governor of Lousiana could have ordered it, as the person in charge of the State.
I'm not wrong 'cos I just asked why didn't he. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Thanks for answering though RF :01:
"You" denotes a reference to someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB
Maybe it's one big rod...Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB
I doubt it...but it's hard telling these days.
Peace bd
I think Everose's only problem is she wears her heart on her sleeve , and is patriotic to a fault . I certainly appreciated her pm this morning . I wish my fellow Canucks were a little more that way ,sure hope cooler heads prevail in this thread .
Check you pm's Everose . :)
Okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Let's say he "shoulders the blame".
What then?
Does he offer himself up for political sacrifice, and place himself at the mercy of...whom?
What would be a proper method of flagellation for this trespass?
Should he put everything on hold (including the relief/rescue effort) while he is castigated by whomever?
I haven't lent my opinion to those here, but I will now:
There is plenty of blame to go around, and since Bush sits atop the totem pole, he shares it in proper measure.
The question seems to be whether he ought to be publicly whipped before he resigns (which popular opinion here seems to dictate he do out of a sense of propriety) rather than after.
You all might clear the air as to what we should expect him to do, positioned as you are as the arbitors of American affairs...
Well?
What would you deem appropriate, lynx?
I told you guys the state screwed this up.
The Red Cross was on the news tonight and they had trucks of food and water ready to go after the storm but the STATE would not let them in. They wanted to deliver food and water to the Superdome but the state wouldn’t let them in because it would encourage the people there to stay and the state didn’t want them to. That is the most appalling thing that I’ve heard. People were dieing in the Superdome and State officials wouldn’t let them in.
So let me recap all of this for you. The Mayor of the city has a parking lot full of buses that were at his disposal to get the poor, sick and elderly out of town that he didn’t use. He didn’t enforce the mandatory evacuation order that was given. The Governor never called up the National Guard and had them ready to go. Then the icing on the cake; the state won’t let the Red Cross in to deliver food and water because they want the people out of the Dome.
And this is all Bush’s fault?
Because it is not in his purview to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB
He could suggest privately that to evacuate might be prudent, but the decision would rest with the Governor.
If he did this, however, the Governor would have him on the hook immediately to provide a federally-funded and mighty comfy evacuation, don't you think?
Keeping in mind this would all have had to happen before Katrina came ashore, and could therefore have been all for naught, the possibility of political fallout would have kept the Governor from asking, and the President from offering.
I really hate to be interjecting reality into your anti-Bush free-for-all, but there you have it.
Surely you can see how this works? :dry:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBank_Hank
Quote:
Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.
The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.
The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.
As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.
My peace:Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkBarMan
I believe that the hurricane was created by nature but it's course was altered by man, specifically the Republicans who run this country. Why would DC want a hurricane to hit New Orleans so severely? Two reasons-
1. because the earth is overpopulated, and disasters like tsunamis and hurricanes get rid of people in a clean way, so they think
2. because DC sees black people who didn't(and would never) vote for Bush or swallow his bullshit lies a liability, and a financial drain. not to mention a place that they would refer to as a "liberal stronghold" of sorts, which they hate.
3. because it jacked up the price of oil, and caused panic, and republicans feed on fear.
edit:also i believe the sudden appearance of these gas guzzling SUV's was no coincidence either. it seems like they got real popular all of a sudden at a time when oil is scarce, which makes the problem worse. i have even heard rumours that some hummer dealerships in California had there fleets partially set on fire because the people were angry about the fact that they waste so much gas. and what is bush doing to promote other sources of energy, like natural gas or hybrid electric cars? some skimpy tax credits that don't even make a dent in the overall price of the hybrid/natural gas car.
there
I'm not letting you off that easily, J2.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
You are the one who, in the past, has called for resignations before the investigations have been completed. Surely you should be doing the same in this case. :rolleyes:
Personally I would be quite content to wait for the outcome of the investigation. But with Bush having put himself at the head of this investigation it hardly seems likely it will be thought impartial.
When I first heard about the waterside explosions the other day, I thought Bush had misunderstood what was required when asked to send in the troops. I thought he had decided to do something about theinsurgentslooters and had ordered an air strike. :unsure:
No mention of WMD this time. So far. :shifty:
That's because it's all around them in the water. Give 'em time, they'll find it.
You can hold the utmost respect for a person but still think their viewpoint on a particular issue is pish. However, in this case I stated clearly that I wasn't sure what 'Rose's viewpoint was - so I made a generic comment regarding an earlier post.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkBarMan
Nothing wrong with that.
As for my 'Don't judge me' comment. It wasn't about 'me' - it was about judging the bilions of people who decided that America have enough funds to clear up their own mess and their donations were needed more elsewhere.If you disagree with someone and post to that effect, you're effectively taking a shot at their beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkBarMan
Given this is a place to discuss opinions, how do you propose we avoid this.
Yes, the USA has the funds to deal with this.
However, those funds are tied up in red tape just like every others countries finances are.. funds can be promised immediatly, they cannot be delivered immediatly. In addition, as i said earlier.. the Federal and State will be more concerned with the infrastructure than in the individuals.
The Insurance Companies will hum and hah about business' and individuals.. ie: Their money will not come quickly.
A huge amount of people could not afford insurance, and so now have nothing.
To summarise.. The USA needs Aid? Damn right it does, just like any country would.
You cannot blame the American people because you do not like the policies and personalities of its Government.. you have to remember that a lot more than 50% did NOT vote them in (whoever is in power at the time).
You must remember that just over 50% of those that voted, voted them in this time.. that is not a huge majority of the population in anyones money.
You must remember that the majority of the people in trouble here are not even likely to be those that voted for them in the 1st place, and it shouldnt matter if they were.
FFS, show a little compassion here guys...
J2, I already pointed out Bush couldnt evacuate :P
Hank, the FEMA convoys were stopped by the FEMA management, in Texas.. not by the State.
The State did however stop other convoys such as the Red Cross.
In their defence, they were told that the FEMA convoys were on the way already, and claim to have been keeping the way clear for them as much as possible (or so they were saying in interviews)..
We aren't going to know what happened exactly for a long time, if ever... there are a lot of umbrellas up already.
Media.... are you remembering to take your medicine? :unsure:
We can make it rain, in certain circumstances....we cant direct the course of a Hurricane. Do you realise the energy that would require?
Before we can control the weather, we have to be able to predict it in the 1st place... we cant do this at the moment, this is why your given a % for the chance of rain.
For a momnet then I thought you were talking to the media...:blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
No J2, thats why I asked :mellow:
The media is all
I puke on the absurdity of the media & politics for its fascinatinatingly sensational manipulative yet highly "informative" techniques.
My apologies. :huh:Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB
With all due respect, lynx, you have nothing to let me off from...Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
You obviously refer to Kofi Annan; I can't think of any others off-hand whose resignations I've called for, and actually I don't remember specifically calling for his.
I'm still a bit stupified that none of you had a problem with the U.N. investigating itself, particularly at this juncture.
No one even seemed to think there was an agency/body with the moral authority to investigate the U.N. or Annan; you were all content more-or-less to accept his blanket denial of any wrong-doing or lack of stewardship in any matter whatsoever (Oil-for-Food, Sudan, etc.), but, I digress... :dry:
In short, you all seem positively eager to pronounce on Bush and the U.S. over hurricane Katrina; the U.N. was another matter entirely. ;)
So you are saying that you did indeed donate money? Because it sounds like you didn't, so that would include yourself as #1 in the billions you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
What saddens me with this topic is that it seems like people are losing focus that there are actual people, lots of people affected by this tragedy, and instead of keeping that in mind when posting, they just want to use this as a venue for America bashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Hey bash America, poopoo on Bush all you want, I don't care. But, this topic, this tragedy, these people they don't deserve it. If you hate America, anyone, from any country, that's fine, its your right, just don't lessen this topic with it.
These are human beings, people, your fellow man and woman; does it really matter they are from America? If so, then shame on you, all of you.
I've already said twice that I'm prepeared to wait, so I hope you aren't including me in your "all".Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Hypocrite.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4