Let me ask u Ppl
how ull react when somebody come to ur home and overtake it from u and say that this is theyr home, offcorse u do any thing to bring ur home back
same is happning with phalastinian Ppl. now u deside to be with which one :rolleyes:
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Let me ask u Ppl
how ull react when somebody come to ur home and overtake it from u and say that this is theyr home, offcorse u do any thing to bring ur home back
same is happning with phalastinian Ppl. now u deside to be with which one :rolleyes:
I think you will find that members here, who are by and large uninvolved in your unfortunate circumstance, favor a strategy of restoration; we think you should get your home back.Quote:
Originally posted by bawa@Klite_user@8 July 2003 - 06:49
Let me ask u Ppl
how ull react when somebody come to ur home and overtake it from u and say that this is theyr home, offcorse u do any thing to bring ur home back
same is happning with phalastinian Ppl. now u deside to be with which one :rolleyes:
As I say, though-we are not in your shoes-you must deal with vengeful thoughts (if you have them) on your own.
guys guys listen, its nowhere like taking over someones home, they use terrorism which is used widely over the globe (september 11, bali, kasablanka etc.).
so, now you decide which way you look at it.
remember, im israeli and i have much more experience with being bombed (closest was some 40 kilometers away from my town which has been bombed several times- haifa).
tralalala
Yes they do use terrorism, but as we have stated on this thread...so does the Israeli Government, in my opinion.
Doesnt make either side "right" or "wrong"
peace is hard... both presidents/governments would have to be the same person
for a 100% easy Declare of Peace.
Israel all the way ;) ;) ;) :ph34r:
excuse me, how do the israeli troops use terrorism? by killing the people who are behind the killings of hundreds of innocent israelis???
ill tell you something even more shocking about the paelestinians: the people who are behind these suicide attacks (not many, maybe 5-10% of palestinian population) hide in between kids, women and the elderly.
they hide behind innocent people who want peace and thats the reason that sometimes there are some innocent palestinians killed...
its a shame but thats reality,
tralalala
I have seen Palestinian men carrying babies being shot in the head. I've seen Israeli troops respond to stone throwing kids with machine guns.Quote:
Originally posted by tralala
excuse me, how do the israeli troops use terrorism
I've seen the remnants of 4 apartment blocks that were destroyed by an Israeli missile. This was a successful assasination attempt on an a terrorist leader as he slept in his bed in his home. 150 innocent palestinians were also killed though. What else can you expect when you drop a missile onto a tightly packed residential area. You can hardly call it an accident.
I'm all for fighting terrorism but these tactics are something completely different.
Anyone who partakes in this kind of indiscriminate killing is a terrorist. I dont care which country they come from and whether they're wearing a uniform or not.
first of all the babies shot in the head are fake and its a fact ive seen it on our news channel.
second, the kids throwing stones dont get shot, they get warned with a shot in the air.
only then will the troops threaten them.
tralalala
Quote:
Originally posted by tralala+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tralala)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>first of all the babies shot in the head are fake [/b]
No the man carrying the baby was shot in the head. I've seen it on BBC news footage. Video footage of that nature would be very hard if not impossible to fake.
<!--QuoteBegin-tralala
second, the kids throwing stones dont get shot, they get warned with a shot in the air.
[/quote]
I've seen similar footage of kids being carried away with their guts spilling out. Again, hard if not impossible to fake.
I think the idea of the BBC, ITV and channel 4 news all faking this video footage is preposterous.
What about the missile attack that killed 150 innocent people?
You can't deny that the Israeli forces are, at least on occassion, using terrorist tactics involving indiscrimnate killing.
As a citizen of a country that was bombed for over 30 years by the IRA I have full sympathy with those trying to protect themselves from terrorism. But nothing can justify the actions I have been talking about.
When you watch the BBc or what ever else you must not see what is really going on. I live in Israel and around my city we are surounded by palastinians. Eveyday I go to work I get shot at or stones are thrown at my windows. anyone who owns a car here has to get bullet proof windows- and that doesn't always help.
I go into Jerusalem and I try not to get close to any other person. Who knows if he doesn't have excplosives in his bag. I mean come on, how can you ask us to live like that and not kill the terrorists that are responsible for the fact that some of my friends have been killed in bombings? who some of them so badly wounded that they'll never be able to talk about it. How can you expect us to sit down in our houses and do nothing while our family is being killed??? Is that what you would do??
you say:"I support Jews to have their own place to settle, but if they lost the land in a war, to the victor go the spoils."Quote:
Originally posted by kAb@17 May 2003 - 03:44
Who do you support?
IMO-
I support Jews to have their own place to settle, but if they lost the land in a war, to the victor go the spoils.
Unless they can prove that the Bible which allows them Israel is non-fiction, I don't believe it.
The palestinians deserve their land back, but I don't agree with their ways of obtaining it.
How to settle this conflict? The palestinians have to agree to live peacefully with the Isrealis, but get rid of those idiotic checkpoints 1 by 1. Palestinians should not be restricted to their little patch of land, they owned all of Isreal at one point, can they not all coexist?
for your information the jew captured israel by war, they didn't recieve just because they believe that it belongs to them. You have your facts wrong, it's the pales. who believe they can get the land as a present that it belongs to them.
Maybe you should know your facts before you state your opinion.
Every one needs to calm down.
There has been so much blood spilt. I don't believe killing people will ever make Palestine/Israel or this world for that matter, a safer place to live in. What is the truth? Who is right, who is wrong. The answer probably is, we just don't know.
First the killings must stop. No more retaliation. Maybe even a little less media coverage.
I have friends who are Palestinian and I have friends who are Israelis. I do know they are all human beings. Every one has the right to live in peace; that their children may grow up in a safe and loving environment. This possibity has been stolen from the children of your region. They will grow up with hate and revenge embedded in their hearts. That's why it is important to try and create NOW the prerequisite for peace for your people in the future.
Somebody has to take the first step to end this constant downward spiraling. Maybe it should be YOU.
@ edit. The topic was Who do you support, Palestine or Israel> I support Israel and Palestine.
missile attack that killed 150 palestinians=reaction of troops to a suicide attack some 3-5 hours earlier...
second, babies shot in the head and kids with their guts spillin out is kinda gross, dont pur it that way mate... these are the answer to palestinian militant terrorist groups that are out there to stop the peace process, what they want- the whole of the land of israel to be palestine. what we, the israelis want- peace and quiet...
take a moment to think about what your saying before posting.
tralalala
p.s: i am israeli, i have the experience to tell you what i typed above, so with all due respect, i think i deserve a little more respect ot my words...
Not getting any more peaceful though. Tommorow or next week the next attack as retribution. Nobody is winning everyone is losing. This is thus not the solution. As for respect, that can't be forced either.
so whats your suggestion smart arse?? ^_^
tralalala
Read again what I wrote earlier, go and sit down and think about it. You say you want respect for your words, you could possibly get it, if you were more polite?
Manners maketh man!
i know but what you say maes no sense...
maybe consider editing your post or something?
tralalala
Now what exactly makes no sense. If I had the answer to the problem there would have been peace many years ago. What would you wish for me to edit? If it would bring peace and quiet I would gladly do so.Quote:
Originally posted by tralalala@21 July 2003 - 19:07
i know but what you say maes no sense...
maybe consider editing your post or something?
tralalala
as i said a few posts ago, you cannot make anyone change their mind...
tralalala
Then the killings will go on. Tralala, that's why I believe that someone has to make the first move, and put an end to this violence, by not retaliating. Sooner or later you both will have to find a way to live side by side. Why not sooner?
are you trying to say that if one side stops the other side will stop sometime too? I'm sorry to say but thats not whats going to happen the other side will just kill us.
There really is no good answer.
Yes! Sooner rather than later, that's the only sane answer! Stop all the killings.
Lets us hope that the truth will help.Quote:
Originally posted by tralalala@21 July 2003 - 19:16
as i said a few posts ago, you cannot make anyone change their mind...
tralalala
the fact is that not all plastenians and Israelie's can live together so there will always be wat between them there is no hope for peace because neither side WANTS peace!
Quote:
Originally posted by tralalala+22 July 2003 - 04:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tralalala @ 22 July 2003 - 04:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>p.s: i am israeli, i have the experience to tell you what i typed above, so with all due respect, i think i deserve a little more respect ot my words...[/b]
with all due respect, could you explain your allegiances, they seem a bit confusing
- in your sig you advertise a basketball team from california USA
- in your sig you claim to be proud to be british
- in this quoted post you claim to be israeli
if you feel that your israeli roots aren't getting you enough respect maybe it's because your board image doesn't reflect any israeli influence
[i think that spell checking might help get your words more of the respect you feel they deserve]
@brynasmith :: being scared of terrorism sounds a bit like a relaxed version of a military curfew.
helicopter rocket attacks, armoured bulldozers, sniper towers, checkpoints and attacks upon ambulances seem a bit more extreme in terms of threat levels when compared to rock throwing and the occasional kamikaze sniper or human-bomb
i don't envy the plight of israelis but i cannot support their actions either, sharon is a war-criminal as well as being prime minister & the IDF is a state terrorist organisation
[i do support the israeli imprisoned conscientious objectors]
israel is specifically a jewish state ie. religiously biased state, and i can't support any such exclusionist regime, to be so biased is just as evil as german national socialism or south african apartheid
excluding people in a nation is wrong and should be deplored
the fact that israel would fold without US assistance is true, but nowadays the crunch that the IDF would cause upon folding is something which the world cannot afford [nuke blackmail giving the USA a taste of their own medicine]
<!--QuoteBegin-ShockAndAwe^i^@ 5 June 2003 - 07:53
All the politically correct talk in the world can't hide true Islam.
It's evil!!
[/quote]
by writing this you just demonstrated the fascist bigotry which underlies the hypocrisy of the USA in so many situations, S&A
do you think you'd be happy if a superior military power conquered north america and said that the USA could have it's own state in arkansas and new mexico? i doubt it
yet this is what you seem to feel palestinians should have been happy with!
in fact i doubt if you could even empathise with most of the souls on earth, you surely miss the point of pink floyd's message
all in all, you are just another brick in the wall
a wall which traps, restricts and obscures the truth
a wall that one day will crumble (i pray)
you also don't understand salmon rushdie's writing either [BTW salmon will tell you that he writes fiction (which means he made it up, FYI)]
you have issue with those who criticise the USA while you expunge pure bile filled intolerance like this :: why should anyone respect your opinion in this light?
ok im 25% plo and 75% lebanese my family used to live in palistine and we got kicked out all of our money was takin and cows and horses and shit this was like 50-70 years ago and now my family lives in lebanon i live in detroit wit my parents and sibbling wat im tryin to say is that the palestinians were there first and no matter wat land cannot be taken away unless sold i think that jerusalem shud just be its own country where no1 can live and it shud just be a place for worship and government and palestine of israel or watever u wanna call it shud be split equaly.....o and im surprised non of u guys c wats goin on there jews r treatin my people worse than hitler was treatin them and still arabs r the terrorists try downloadin occupation 101 its a documentery i dont it came out but watch the preview and ull no wat i mean thx 4 listenin
www.ocupation101.com
edit:site posted
i was born in london, britain and came to israel at the age of 5 months.
second: you know, the lakers dont have supporters only inside the USA... some supporters are on the other side of the globe man...
tralalala
I sincerely hope that this is not true and to be honest, I don't believe you.Quote:
Originally posted by brynasmith@22 July 2003 - 07:25
there is no hope for peace because neither side WANTS peace!
In any case, to reach peace, many offers will have to be made by both sides.
In China and other eastern countries, there used to be a tradition between two countries who were at war, of marriage between the children of the rulers of the two countries.
Maybe an idea for Palestine and Israel?
that's hep GQuote:
Originally posted by tralalala@22 July 2003 - 21:05
i was born in london, britain and came to israel at the age of 5 months.
second: you know, the lakers dont have supporters only inside the USA... some supporters are on the other side of the globe man...
tralalala
i just wanted to point out that there's a certain amount of ambiguity to your ID in this brave new world of pixels
shalom
You think that everyone here in Israel wants peace?
OK there are SOME people that want peace- Some Israelie's and some palastiniens, but both of them also have a good %% that don't want peace they want to live without the other at all, and because of that any agreement that is met will not be recieved by everyone and thus will bring to more problems than there already is.
you write: being scared of terrorism sounds a bit like a relaxed version of a military curfew.
helicopter rocket attacks, armoured bulldozers, sniper towers, checkpoints and attacks upon ambulances seem a bit more extreme in terms of threat levels when compared to rock throwing and the occasional kamikaze sniper or human-bomb
i don't envy the plight of israelis but i cannot support their actions either, sharon is a war-criminal as well as being prime minister & the IDF is a state terrorist organisation
Do you know that every attack the Israelie's have made has been as a respond to attacks the arabs have done, are you trying to say that it isn't right for them to do this? that we should just sit here and let them bomb us all away?
@Brynasmith:
What more problems could there possibly be, than there already is?
I am afraid so if you wish to put an end to the spiral of violence.Quote:
Originally posted by brynasmith@22 July 2003 - 20:27
are you trying to say that it isn't right for them to do this? that we should just sit here and let them bomb us all away?
Tibz, you write: wat im tryin to say is that the palestinians were there first and no matter wat land cannot be taken away unless sold
Obviosly you don't know your history, but the jewish nation was is in Israel before the Arabs or anyone else, and there has never been a time when Isreal didn't have any jews in it, sometimes there were very few that people may not remember but they were there. So what does that mean? that the arabs should leave? maybe now you think a little diffrent hu?
Another thing: land also changs hands by war, no? isn't that whats happened throughout the history? are you saying that that doesn't count? than maybe you should try and fix the WHOLE world and not only Israel.
life here in Israel can be a lot worse, like someone here already gave the great Idea that there shouldn't be anymore check points, do you know what that would mean???!!!
Do you know how many bombers the israelie's catch by those chack points??!!! and do you know that those would be bombers get realesed a few days later because they didn't DO NOTHING!! think of what would be if there were no check points?? I wouldn't be alive to tell about it.
Do you know that the Israelie goverment pays the family's of the suiside bombers money to live after they are dead?? they do that even after that bomber kills people, I wouldn't say that the goverment are war criminals (not that I agree with the fact that they give them money to live on)
So the UK should have bombed the crap out of The Republic of Ireland when being attacked by the IRA?Quote:
you write: being scared of terrorism sounds a bit like a relaxed version of a military curfew.
helicopter rocket attacks, armoured bulldozers, sniper towers, checkpoints and attacks upon ambulances seem a bit more extreme in terms of threat levels when compared to rock throwing and the occasional kamikaze sniper or human-bomb
i don't envy the plight of israelis but i cannot support their actions either, sharon is a war-criminal as well as being prime minister & the IDF is a state terrorist organisation
Do you know that every attack the Israelie's have made has been as a respond to attacks the arabs have done, are you trying to say that it isn't right for them to do this? that we should just sit here and let them bomb us all away?
Crap.
If you lower yourself to the level of terrorists then dont be surprised when you in turn are called terrorists.
The Jews were in Israel and Left.Quote:
Tibz, you write: wat im tryin to say is that the palestinians were there first and no matter wat land cannot be taken away unless sold
Obviosly you don't know your history, but the jewish nation was is in Israel before the Arabs or anyone else, and there has never been a time when Isreal didn't have any jews in it, sometimes there were very few that people may not remember but they were there. So what does that mean? that the arabs should leave? maybe now you think a little diffrent hu?
The Articles of the PLO when it was founded, described Jews that were already in Palestine before the creation of Israel as Palestinians, its the invaders that came AFTER that they objected to.
As to saying that the Jewish nation was there before the Arabs....wasnt Israel the "Promised Land"? And wasnt it occupied BEFORE the Israelis moved in even then?
Its immaterial though...because you have just stated that USA should be given back to the Native Americans and Australia to the Aborigini's.....etc etc etc
Israel exists now, its a done deal.....it was the Creation of Israel by the UN that was the mistake, however there is no turning the clock back. It exists and is the home of Israeli's born and bred there, taking it away now is as bad as creating it in the 1st place.
You stated earlier that Israel was created by war....exactly.
By the same tactics you are now condemning in the Palestinians...ie Terrorism.
If you want to debate, then debate....but please at least add facts to your beliefs, instead of "I say, therefore its right"....makes you sound like Bush.
here here Rat Faced, you took the words out of my mouth,
put simply
somebody has to stop punching before the fight can end
[BTW :: it seems that joshua in the first israeli invasion of Canaan was the leader of the first military genocide, prior to joshua's subjugation of the land of milk and honey armies integrated the cultures they conquered into their own fold and/or took tribute, it's no real wonder why ultra-orthodox fanatics shoot at and attack archaeologists trying to study in israel, they don't want more evidence of this jewish first coming to light]
before the jews came to Israel there were 7 other MAIN nations living there. NONE of these nations are still here today. My family has lived in Israelfor a 1000 years and they weren't the only jews living here.
I'm know the we the Israelie's shouldn't do what we are doing, but what do you Want US to DO??? Everyone has to defend themselves from voilince, is there anyway other to do that?? what do you want us to do?
You"ve already been given the answer to that, but you just ingnore it and start asking the same question again.