Where Is The Sense In

I didn´t intend to say or even imply that.

I was replying to Clockers argument that the UK was as bad as the USA and that, somehow this made your argument less ludicrous. ´"You did a bad thing, so you cant say I did a bad thing."

I fully agreed that the UK has a dreadful record, however at the time of which he spoke my ancestors were in Ireland. They were also the very people who he described as being the victims of the British.

I went on to point out that, if anything that made me have more in common with the black slaves than with their masters.

If that came across to you as me implying a greater empathy on my part than on yours then it was because the post was badly written. I apologise for any confusion and hope this clears it up.

Please bear in mind that it was you who brought up the idea that your democracy was wonderful from it´s inception. (Apart from the slight matter of the slavery thing).

It was then Clocker who brought up the fact the the UK had a poor history on equality. I couldn´t agree more.

I must clarify also:

I meant merely to point out that the ideas of freedom and equality were cornerstones of our founding philosophies and accompanying documents.

It is apparent to all that the United States did not begin to "practice what we preached" for a good while after it's inception.

Neither did I intend to give short shrift to the outrage of slavery; a prior post did an excellent job of delineating the astounding disregard for the value of slaves, and defined their status at that time as no more than highly developed animals.

My point is that, regardless of what has passed before, the higher concepts of freedom and equality are currently practiced in the United States as nowhere else, and for that, we receive no credit, even though we have achieved this level of "enlightenment" over a relatively short time, historically.

I hope this helps.

Give it up j2.

Any credit due the US JPaul will assign to the Germans.

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the higher concepts of freedom and equality are currently practiced in the United States as nowhere else

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Not to say anything about how the Dutch would feel about the quoted statement!.

That's good advice from clocker, take it.

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Originally posted by Neil__@2 August 2003 - 22:43
Thanks Becka
Like you said, a little perspective here.

There is a case for America, as a new country their full of history.
But your right.
A little perspective is here.

Britain "among others" has been conquered so many times it makes us steadfast and America has a time lag.
And unfortunately they seem to be trying to make up for it with media wars.
In that they aren't so different from us.

Neil

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I have to agree with JPaul, what the HELL does any of this mean?

For example..

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America has a time lag

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They can be blamed for alot of things, but I don't think they can be blamed for being in a different time zone.

The Atlantic Ocean is not their fault.. ;)

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Originally posted by nigel123@4 August 2003 - 11:02

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the higher concepts of freedom and equality are currently practiced in the United States as nowhere else

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Not to say anything about how the Dutch would feel about the quoted statement!.

That's good advice from clocker, take it.

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Actually most of Europe here, which has much stricter Privacy Laws than the USA, protecting the Freedom etc.....


Holland however....I agree, they take "Freedom" to the next level ;)


This is not to say that USA isnt "Free" they are, of course....definately within the top 20 on the planet :P

Read the ECHR and the DPA and see how they protect our individual freedoms.

Then look at the RIAA suing people in America for sharing files. In spite of constitution SP1

Then consider individual freedoms and how the EU compares to the USA with regard to freedom and equality.

Anyway it was j2 an´ Clocker that started it and they are smelly smelly smell smells

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Originally posted by JPaul@4 August 2003 - 18:58
Anyway it was j2 an´ Clocker that started it and they are smelly smelly smell smells

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Damn right. It's because they're American ;)

man....
some of these discussions are depressing. I feel bad for all of you. You point fingers at each other, make fun of, accuse, etc. Just because you were fortunate/unfortunate to be born to parents that lived in your particular country?
Home is where you hang your hat, a lot of people have no contol over where they live, and sure the hell have no control over where they were born. Maybe because I don't put any importance on where a person lives to whether or not I can understand or like them makes me different? Truly, I think we all share a level of embarrasment of certain things in our country's histories. Thing is, what could we have done to change them? mabe this could be another topic of discussion one day instead of "what can I say to piss off someone from a country other than my own"

If your happy where you are at, thats all that should matter. I could live in many other countries and still be as happy. from the sounds of it, some of you wouldn't be happy no matter where you lived :ph34r:

Fair point.

Let's all agree on everything and be done with individuality.

That way there will never be any argument or discussion. No more debate or difference of opinion.

That would be Utopia.

Good idea that man. Your generation can't cope with mature debate - best solution, don't do it anymore.

Excellent post - well presented, where can I hand my humanity in.