does religion really represent god?

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Originally Posted by thewizeard

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

Yes

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..Perhaps ..but then one must consider the following; many people who might have an argument with you, will not kill you for it, as otherwise they believe that they might not go to heaven, but to hell. So in many ways religion has a social function. On the other hand there are some, that if you even dare to draw their Prophet on paper; they will deem that dis-respectful and possibly attempt to make a quick end on your life.

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Exactly, that's why sweeping generalisations don't work. A lot of people's social conscience is based on their religious teachings.

How much of the good in the world today is done in the name of religion. How many people are alive today because some uneducated ignorant Christian dug a well and thee was clean water available where there never was before. Or taught in a school (even though they themselves were uneducated and ignorant)and helped educate people. Who then went on to educate others.

Religion was once necessary as a form of governance. It made a good substitute for a constitution and the regulation of public life, back when life was so shitty that being thrown in prison for transgressions or being ostracised was no deterrant to aberrant behaviour. When life is that shitty the only thing you can control people with is the fear of the flames of hell licking your ringpiece for all eternity. Now we have political structure, and religion is relegated to primarily forming a social identity.

When someone screams and shouts in the street, burning effigies and threatening people with violent fatwas because they drew a picture the protestors don't like, I don't for a minute believe it's got a thing to do with standing up for God. It's simply a protest at people not showing the deference you believe your social club deserves.

Some stuff written in religious scripture is good.

If you like, you can read it. There might be occasions where you'll think; 'That's a good thing'. The people who wrote it were, by and large, clever chaps who thought a lot about values and how people should live their lives. In fact, most of them dedicated their entire lives to theorising about just that and then writing it down.

Of course, there's some absolute pish too and some is irrelevant in contemporary society - but if you can read it with an open mind and take the bits that suggest how to improve the way you treat other people and the way in which you think about yourself, then it might just work for you and improve your life somewhat. It will, at the very least, make you more informed about what millions of other people hold dear to them.

You don't have to believe in a superior being, a creator - I certainly don't - but that's not to say that religion is useless. Don't just say religion is bad without reading about what it tries to teach 'cos, as I said, some, no, most of it is good stuff.

half of the bible isn't true..

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Originally Posted by manker

Some stuff written in religious scripture is good.

If you like, you can read it. There might be occasions where you'll think; 'That's a good thing'. The people who wrote it were, by and large, clever chaps who thought a lot about values and how people should live their lives. In fact, most of them dedicated their entire lives to theorising about just that and then writing it down.

Of course, there's some absolute pish too and some is irrelevant in contemporary society - but if you can read it with an open mind and take the bits that suggest how to improve the way you treat other people and the way in which you think about yourself, then it might just work for you and improve your life somewhat. It will, at the very least, make you more informed about what millions of other people hold dear to them.

You don't have to believe in a superior being, a creator - I certainly don't - but that's not to say that religion is useless. Don't just say religion is bad without reading about what it tries to teach 'cos, as I said, some, no, most of it is good stuff.

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This is what I was saying about the use of religion as a civilising influence on a barbaric era in civilisation. Most of the tenets of all faiths have already been enshrined in democratic law in a secular way in Britain......all the important ones anyway. Religion is a relic...like the appendix, a vestigial remnant of man's evolution.

Like you I already accept a lot of the moral codes of religion into my life. My dad always said that you don't need to go to church. You just have to follow what Jesus teaches and you'll be ok. He believed as I do that Jesus was a revolutionary, not the son of God. You don't need to have religion to have morality and ethics.....and I would say that if it takes the fear of a wrathful creator to adopt them then that makes you a pretty abysmal human being. There are times when it really amuses me that people I've met who call themselves Christians seem to have fewer moral standards than I do, and think that as long as they accept that they are weak and throw themselves upon God for understanding and forgiveness it's ok. It's a lot tougher to look yourself in the mirror as your own moral guardian and make excuses to yourself. There can be no harder judge of you than you.

The only things religion can possibly offer now in the modern era are a) a way to reinforce group bonding...to set yourself apart from groups of other people b) If you have a shitty life to give you hope and a belief that you've suffering for a reason c) to give you comfort when you're lonely or frightened. And really, for the last two society/humanity should be ashamed that people have been forced into that.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who doesn't believe in God. Or for those who do believe in Her not wishing to be part of a particular religion. To each their own, it's beliefs we're talking about here. Even the Pope has said that we (Catholics) do not have a monopoly on truth.

What I do object to is people saying that those who believe in God or who follow the teachings of a particular religion must be ignorant and uneducated. I know plenty of people who believe in God who are neither of these things. I know of plenty who are exceptionally well educated and intelligent. I also know plenty of atheists who aren't going to cut themselves thinking.

To each their own and a bit of respect for other people's beliefs, that's the ticket.

What about people who say grownups shouldn't have imaginary friends.
Are they being judgmental. :unsure:

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Originally Posted by benchez

What about people who say grownups shouldn't have imaginary friends.
Are they being judgmental. :unsure:

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You still think Allen5 is real don't you.

:earl: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who doesn't believe in God. Or for those who do believe in Her not wishing to be part of a particular religion. To each their own, it's beliefs we're talking about here. Even the Pope has said that we (Catholics) do not have a monopoly on truth.

What I do object to is people saying that those who believe in God or who follow the teachings of a particular religion must be ignorant and uneducated. I know plenty of people who believe in God who are neither of these things. I know of plenty who are exceptionally well educated and intelligent. I also know plenty of atheists who aren't going to cut themselves thinking.

To each their own and a bit of respect for other people's beliefs, that's the ticket.

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First of all I would like to hear an intelligent person explain to me what their understanding of the concept of 'religion' is, because when I've had discussions with intelligent people who say they follow a faith in the past it's become apparent that they don't actually have the correct understanding of it.

For instance, Wiki says this is the definition of religion:

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A religion is a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

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If I ask them however if for instance they believe that when they take the sacrament that the wine and wafer turn into the body and blood of Christ in their mouths, they umm and aah. Or if I ask them if they believe the Earth is only thousands of years old, they'll say 'well not exactly'.

To my mind the whole point of religion is that you follow a doctrine. Each religion has its own doctrine. You either follow that and call yourself a member of that faith or you don't and you don't. There can be no grey areas, or you're creating a new religion for yourself.

If someone did profess to be intelligent and claim that the Earth was thousands of years old I would argue that.