Michael Moore's Acceptance Speech

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Originally posted by ketoprak+26 March 2003 - 13:08--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ketoprak @ 26 March 2003 - 13:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SuperJude™@26 March 2003 - 12:59
ketoprak you are a fucking jerkoff.

You people happy? I used foul language. Enjoy&#33;

But a lot of you people are fucking jerk offs and I am sick of reading your feeble minded bullshit.

:angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:

-SJ™

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Thanks SJ, that was so deep and accurate.

People who decided this must have the same diplomatic line of argument as you do.

Makes me understand why we have this war.

:nuke: [/b][/quote]
BINGO&#33;


So some harsh words in text explain an entire war for you?

That is just pathetic.

Though of course I do think you have nothing to add to this board of course.

But still.

That was a sad reply, really.

-SJ™

I have a few more comments (consider these my opinions):

1.) Most countries/people in the world agree that Iraq is not an immediate threat to its surrounding territories or the U.S. AND The UN wouldn&#39;t back the Bush Admin up because neither he nor the UN inspectors had any proof that Iraq was any threat. Also, there has been no proof that Hussein directly supports Al Queda in any way.

2.) Not to say Hussein isn&#39;t a sadistic little fuckhead and deserves whatever he gets... Just that his people (oppressed, hungry, propagandized into ignorance) and our soldiers don&#39;t really deserve being cannon fodder just for Oil (or fodder in a big fun game of cowboys and Indians for Bush).

3.) This is a supposed democracy (if you don&#39;t count the last election) and therefore we really can change our current situation (No Conservative Idiots in `04&#33;) but unfortunately we have to stick around to do so - It&#39;s not a love it or leave it situation...

4.) I really do like the ideals this country was founded on (money, land, hemp, rebelling against the establishment i.e. England - Yah baby) and the "American Dream", however at this point (especially under the Bush admin) I see most of the Dream/Constitution being pissed on under the guise of preserving our freedoms and democracy. I see a country divided, watered down freedom (Thank you Patriot Act), less prosperity and way too much bloodshed.

And regarding religion, i have to Quote George Carlin on this one:

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Bullshit From The Sky
But Folks, I have to tell you, in the bullshit department a businessman can’t hold a candle to clergyman. Because when It comes to bullshit. Big-time, major-league bullshit. You have to stand in awe—in awe&#33;—of the all time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest.

Religion—easily—has the Greatest Bullshit Story Ever Told&#33; Think about it: religion has actually convinced people—many of them adults—that there’s an invisible man who lives in the sky and watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And who has a special list of then things he does not want you to do.

And if you do any of these things, he has a special place, full of and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to remain and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry, forever and ever, till the end of time. But he loves you&#33;

He loves you, and he needs money&#33; He always needs money. He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, but somehow… he just can’t handle money. Religion takes in billions of dollars, pays no taxes, and somehow always needs a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy shit&#33;

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...One of the many reasons i choose to be agnostic (notice not atheist).

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Originally posted by SuperJude™+26 March 2003 - 13:18--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SuperJude™ @ 26 March 2003 - 13:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

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Originally posted by -ketoprak@26 March 2003 - 13:08
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperJude™

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@26 March 2003 - 12:59
ketoprak you are a fucking jerkoff.

You people happy? I used foul language. Enjoy&#33;

But a lot of you people are fucking jerk offs and I am sick of reading your feeble minded bullshit.

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

-SJ™

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Thanks SJ, that was so deep and accurate.

People who decided this must have the same diplomatic line of argument as you do.

Makes me understand why we have this war.

:nuke:

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BINGO&#33;


So some harsh words in text explain an entire war for you?

That is just pathetic.

Though of course I do think you have nothing to add to this board of course.

But still.

That was a sad reply, really.

-SJ™ [/b][/quote]
:ninja: :ninja: My mother always told me not to answer to provocations :ninja: :ninja:

I will indeed refrain from :flame: ing you.

So then mamas boy, why did you reply huh?

Shows a distinct lack of character and conviction doesn&#39;t it?

Hmmmmm........




-SJ™

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Originally posted by ketoprak@26 March 2003 - 10:14
Back to topic :

Monday, March 17, 2003
A Letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush on the Eve of War


George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC


Dear Governor Bush:

So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I&#39;m glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn&#39;t sure if I could take much more. So I&#39;m glad to hear that today is Truth Day, &#39;cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:


Michael Moore possesses the truth: He IS the oracle.


1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON&#39;T FIND THEM&#33; Why? &#39;Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us&#33; No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don&#39;t want to kill him&#33; Funny how that works&#33;


There is "virtually no one" INCLUDING those on Fox News and talk radio, who is "gung ho" for war. The fact a MAJORITY of Americans SUPPORT the war does not impress Mr. Moore. His supposition proves nothing other than that he knows where the anti-war crowd hangs out.


2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here&#39;s what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.


This is sOOOOOOO tired. Even the liberal press (WHO, IN 2000, COMPLETED THE COUNT SO AS TO BE ABLE TO PUBLISH THE "FACTS", CONCLUDED BUSH DID INDEED WIN, EVEN INCREASING HIS FINAL WINNING MARGIN) admitted (albeit on page 20, in most cases) Bush won, and any legal challenge mounted by Gore would have failed.


3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.


Bill Maher-another oracle, even more clever than Mr. Moore-who proclaims himself a "libertarian", then leaves his ass hanging out for any reasoned debate. If he didn&#39;t control the microphone and the agenda, his points would blunt themselves.
Mr. Moore does not "live" in the "world" and has no claim to speak for anyone. He reminds me of a "white" Jesse Jackson in this regard.


4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope&#33; But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you&#33; How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won&#39;t have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.


The Pope should deal with (as Mr. Moore says) the issues which beg his attention: PEDARIST PREISTS. When would the Pope EVER speak in favor of a war? I predict Mr. Moore will soon be blasting Papal interest in some other "Moore" cause.


5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces&#33; If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let&#39;s see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What&#39;s that you say? You don&#39;t THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don&#39;t think so either&#33;


Mr Moore finally makes a marginal point.


6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn&#39;t even have this country known as America if it weren&#39;t for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can&#39;t get out of.


Yes, we DO love the French-just not right now.


Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I&#39;m guessing there aren&#39;t a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn&#39;t like to see a good ass-whoopin&#39; every now and then (especially when it &#39;s some third world ass&#33;). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year&#39;s election. Of course, that&#39;s still a long ways away, so we&#39;ll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet&#33;


Among other things in this paragraph, Mr. Moore mis-spells "ass-whuppin&#39;".


But, hey, who knows -- maybe you&#39;ll find Osama a few days before the election&#33; See, start thinking like THAT&#33; Keep hope alive&#33; Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil&#33;&#33;


No, Mr. Moore, it&#39;s THEIR oil, and we know it.


Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com

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And your contention would therefore be this letter "proves" Mr. Moore is right and Bush is wrong?

**Please excuse my ineptitude with the editting functions; I have added my own commentary to Mr. Moore&#39;s letter. I apologize to anyone who reads it again just to get my point.

Okay, I just spent the last 45 minutes or so reading through this entire string and I have (as usual) a few (maybe more) comments to make to all.

First, agnostic or atheist, beleiving that there isn&#39;t a GOD or that it is unknown seems to be splitting hairs. I see the differences, however small, there is a difference, but this is one case where you either have to beleive that there is or is not, as for the knowing for sure, leave that for when we will all truely need to know, hopefully soon after death in my book.

Second, The United States Of America is a great country, however not without faults. The US has always tried to be the worlds police force, nine times out of ten the world is very happy to have this arrangement. After the Gulf War (desert shield/desert storm, for those of you wearing diapers back then) the UN gave Saddam a list of rules to follow. He has not followed those rules and the UN has decided to not back those rules.

This would be similar to a parent making rules for the children, let us say "No TV after 8pm, lights out at 8:30 pm". Now it is 9pm and the TV is on and so are the lights, should the parent confront the children or simply let them continue without repurcussions? I say the parent turns off the TV and the lights, warns the children to follow the rules and the next time takes action.

Now depending on your culture action could be taken as a spanking, timeout, loss of other privledges, etc. My main point here is the repurcussions should reflect the weight of the rule. Saddam was not following the rules, actions were taken and those actions were not met with any urgence or truth from Saddam.

Third, I am not a supporter of the war, however I am also not an avid opponent of the war. I (deep down) think that this war is for more than IRAQI freedom, oil or what ever else you can imagine. I think that this war is farther reaching than most could understand, this war will in my opinion not result in better lives for either side, at least not in the near future. However as I have stated in previous strings regarding the war effort, there are millions of jewish people who would have loved the US had we stepped in and taken Hitler out before he began murdering innocents, I think Saddam must be stopped, before he (for lack of a better explanation) "Pulls A Hitler".

Fourth, as for Michael Moores speech, it stank. I think he could have came up with a much more robust message had he spent anytime thinking about what to say. Had any of you here in this string been given advance notice that you may in fact be called upon to say something at an event such as that, you would have spent some time and effort on what you were going to say, or at least I would have hoped so. You could say so much more in the same amount of time given enough forethought.

To sum any of this up into a meaningless little post is very difficult, however I do want to leave you with a few quotes, that I would hope would help all of us understand our selves a bit better, and just simply understand that we are all filled with our own thoughts, desires and feelings and none of us are going to agree with everyone&#39;s opinions, either based in truth or theory.

Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is.
Sir Francis Bacon

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.
Aristotle

We praise a man who feels angry on the right grounds and against the right persons and also in the right manner at the right moment and for the right length of time.
Aristotle

We make war that we may live in peace.
Aristotle


I think the last 2 really hold some significance to this discussion, but you may take them as you see fit.

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A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.
Aristotle

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Are you thinking about Bush, Saddam or both, when refering to this?

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Originally posted by ketoprak@26 March 2003 - 16:38

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A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.
Aristotle

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Are you thinking about Bush, Saddam or both, when refering to this?

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I think the reference(s) are obvious. Part of the magic of reason is it&#39;s self-evidence; if you don&#39;t "get it" when it&#39;s right there to be "gotten", then you are lost.

This leads to posts that are less than, shall we say, reasonable?

:blink: Boy, does Zardoz know how to ruin a thread&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink:

Anyway, back to the topic. I think Adrien Brody&#39;s acceptance speech was MUCH better than Michael Moore&#39;s.
He was subtle with his statements but also powerful at the same time.
Michael Moore looked like a mad man with all that shouting.
Did you notice that Michael Moore was shut up by the orchestra? Well, Adrien Brody told the orchestra to shut up and to listen for a few seconds... ;)

Here&#39;s the last part of his speech:

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And you know, (the orchestra tries to shut him up) wait one second. One second, please one second. Cut it out, cut it out. I get one shot at this. I&#39;m sorry. I didn&#39;t say more than five names, I don&#39;t think, but. This is, you know, it fills me with great joy, but I am also filled with a lot of sadness tonight because I am accepting an award at such a strange time. And you know my experiences of making this film made me very aware of the sadness and the dehumanization of people at times of war. And the repercussions of war. And whatever you believe in, if it&#39;s God or Allah, may he watch over you and let&#39;s pray for a peaceful and swift resolution. Thank you. And I have a friend from Queens who&#39;s a soldier in Kuwait right now, Tommy Zarabinski, and I hope you and your boys make it back real soon. God bless you guys. I love you. Thank you very much.

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And he got a standing ovation too...

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Originally posted by DataMore@27 March 2003 - 04:22
:blink: Boy, does Zardoz know how to ruin a thread&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink:

Anyway, back to the topic. I think Adrien Brody&#39;s acceptance speech was MUCH better than Michael Moore&#39;s.
He was subtle with his statements but also powerful at the same time.
Michael Moore looked like a mad man with all that shouting.
Did you notice that Michael Moore was shut up by the orchestra? Well, Adrien Brody told the orchestra to shut up and to listen for a few seconds... ;)

Here&#39;s the last part of his speech:

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And you know, (the orchestra tries to shut him up) wait one second. One second, please one second. Cut it out, cut it out. I get one shot at this. I&#39;m sorry. I didn&#39;t say more than five names, I don&#39;t think, but. This is, you know, it fills me with great joy, but I am also filled with a lot of sadness tonight because I am accepting an award at such a strange time. And you know my experiences of making this film made me very aware of the sadness and the dehumanization of people at times of war. And the repercussions of war. And whatever you believe in, if it&#39;s God or Allah, may he watch over you and let&#39;s pray for a peaceful and swift resolution. Thank you. And I have a friend from Queens who&#39;s a soldier in Kuwait right now, Tommy Zarabinski, and I hope you and your boys make it back real soon. God bless you guys. I love you. Thank you very much.

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And he got a standing ovation too...

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And here&#39;s to you, DataMore, for airing what the rest of us missed. On point, sir.