Will Drugs Become Legal ?

Legalise the lot! Lets make the stuff available at it's true cost which is probably next to bugger all!

Grow it here - take the power away from the drug lords in Columbia, Afganistan etc. Put dem scum yardies and gangs out of business!

Probably cut the burglary and other drug related crime rate to a fraction of current levels. The current battle is a lost one - time to change tactics.

Go get your fix from a legitimate retail outlet. It will probably be cleaner slightly safer shit than that which is on the streets.

:blink:

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Originally posted by http://www.instant-essays.com/alcohol_&_drugs/marijuana.shtml+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (http://www.instant-essays.com/alcoho...arijuana.shtml)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>THC in the mother&#39;s milk is much more concentrated than that in the mother&#39;s blood. One study has shown that the use of marijuana by a mother during the first month of breast feeding can impair the infant&#39;s motor development (control of muscle movement). INTERACTIONS: Interactions can be expected between cannabis and a wide range of drugs. Nortriptyline is a tricyclics (a chemical with three fused rings in the molecular structure) antidepressant. Cannabis interacts adversely with tricyclics antidepressants. Cannabis, on its own, produces tachycardia (rapid heart action) as a side-effect. Tricyclics do the same.

Combined, there is an additive effect, with a larger increase in heart rate.

Tricyclic antidepressants have a certain effect on the heart. This effect can be described as cardiotoxicity (having a toxic effect on the heart). In normal dosage, in individuals with no heart disorders, this causes no problems at all.

In over doseage, tricyclics can produce serious cardiac arrest. (The effects of cannabis and Nortriptyline in particular have been documented.) 1.)
[/b]

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Originally posted by http://mentor.fork.de/content.php?pid=309+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (http://mentor.fork.de/content.php?pid=309)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The use of cannabis has been associated with the development of schizophrenia and depression (7). The studies that back up these findings have not yet established whether the use of cannabis triggers the onset of schizophrenia or depression or whether it causes these conditions in non-predisposed people. Chronic daily users have reported higher levels of anxiety, fatigue and low motivation, and this seems especially applicable to teenage girls (8). Cannabis also has a higher percentage of tar than cigarette smoke and therefore increases the risk of lung damage.

[/b]

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Originally posted by http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/30.html
The diagnosis of cannabis toxicity is defined operationally in the DSM-IV. The criteria for cannabis intoxication are as follows:

A. Recent use of cannabis
B. Clinically significant maladaptive behavioral or psychological changes (e.g., impaired motor coordination, euphoria, anxiety, sensation of slowed time, impaired judgment, social withdrawal) that developed during, or shortly after cannabis use.

C. Two or more of the following psychological symptoms within 2 hours of use:

1. conjunctival injection
2. increased appetite

3. dry mouth

4. tachycardia

D. The symptoms are not due to a general medical condition and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder.

Associated with the diagnosis cannabis intoxication are additional descriptors and/or specifiers that include cannabis intoxication delirium, cannabis-induced psychotic disorder with delusions, cannabis-induced psychotic disorder with hallucinations, cannabis-induced psychotic disorder with delusions, cannabis-induced anxiety disorder, and cannabis related disorder not otherwise specified. Cannabis-induced delusional disorders are rare in the United States, but are reported frequently in countries such as India and Egypt where high dose cannabis preparations are used extensively. Occasionally, the delusional disorder may not resolve within a few hours and the subject requires psychiatric hospitalization. A diagnostic problem then arises when trying to determine whether a psychotic individual abused marijuana, or whether the abuse of cannabis directly caused the psychosis. By evaluating the patient&#39;s premorbid and post-morbid state, one can attempt to solve this problem by determining the course of the disorder (Johnston et al 1980).

The diagnosis of cannabis dependence is defined operationally in the DSM-IV. The DSM-IV criteria for the diagnosis of cannabis dependence are as follows (DSM-IV 1994):

A. Cannabis abuse: A destructive pattern of cannabis use, leading to significant social, occupational, or medical impairment.
B. Must have three (or more) of the following, occurring when the cannabis use was at its worst:

1. Cannabis tolerance: Either need for markedly increased amounts of cannabis to achieve intoxication, or markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of cannabis.
2. Greater use of cannabis than intended: Cannabis was often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended

3. Unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control cannabis use: Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control cannabis use

4. Great deal of time spent in using cannabis, or recovering from hangovers

5. Cannabis caused reduction in social, occupational or recreational activities: Important social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced because of cannabis use.

6. Continued using cannabis despite knowing it caused significant problems: Continued cannabis use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been worsened by cannabis

C. Associated features:

1. Learning Problem
2. Psychotic

3. Euphoric Mood

4. Depressed Mood

5. Somatic or Sexual Dysfunction

6. Addiction

7. Odd or Eccentric or Suspicious Personality

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Originally posted by http://www.sjs.sd83.bc.ca/career/drugs.htm#cannabis
Cannabis
Cannabis (Marijuana) is a combination of the dried leaves and flowers of the hemp plant. Usually it is rolled into a cigarette paper and smoked, although it is sometimes eaten. Marijuana contains THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), the main active chemical which has the mind-altering effect on the brain.

The effects of marijuana differ with each person and the circumstances of its use. Some people feel giddy and some feel nothing at all. Time may appear to move slowly or ordinary events can seem very interesting or funny. Marijuana can raise your blood pressure and double your normal heart rate. After "smoking up" your eyes will look red from the blood vesses expanding. Commonly, users will feel very thirsty and/or hungry. Co-ordination ad reaction time will be impaired, as well as the ability to think and reason effectively.

People who support the legalization of marijuana claim that there are no health risks involved. The truth is that long-term users show the same changes in their brain as do abusers of other drugs&#33; Smoking marijuana can cause cancer and lung diseases much the same as tobacco. The side effects of using marijuana can be particularily destructive to adolescents because short-term memory is affected. The ability to study or learn is also severly retarded and it takes away motivation so that someone who smokes up regularily may find they no longer care about other things that used to be imortnat to them. Frequent users may find that they feel "dopey" and unalble to think clearly when problem solving or performing complex tasks even after the intoxicating effects of the drug have worn off.

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Originally posted by http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/archive.shtml?2x1799
Smoking marijuana has also been found to increase fivefold the risk of a heart
attack in the first hour after
inhalation.

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Originally posted by http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/jn...s/SubAbOL.html
Negative Effects of Marijuana

Physical effects
increase in the heart rate
bloodshot eyes
dry mouth and throat
increased appetite
Reduced coordination
Pulmonary system damage and lung cancer
Psychological effects
impair short-term memory,
Impaired learning and comprehension
Reduced concentration
Reduced motivation
paranoia and psychosis
Psychological dependence and tolerance

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Originally posted by http://www.hemp.net/news/9801/980130us.html
Dronabinol-induced parasympatholytic-like activity may result in tachycardia or conjunctivitis. Effects on blood pressure are inconsistent, and some patients have experienced orthostatic hypotension or syncope.

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Originally posted by http://www.pdxnorml.org/PR_Hollister...ects_1986.html
I. Cardiovascular Problems

Tachycardia, orthostatic hypotension, and increased blood concentrations of carboxyhemoglobin from cannabis smoking would undoubtedly have deleterious effects on persons with heart disease due to arteriosclerosis of the coronary arteries or congestive heart failure. Although a slight trend toward increased use by persons over age 30 years has been detected in recent epidemiological studies, it is unlikely that many persons with serious heart disease will be exposed to this hazard from cannabis use.

Tachycardia is a consequence of almost every acute dose of cannabis, although some degree of tolerance develops to this effect. Evidence suggests that it is mainly due to an inhibition of vagal tone [32]. Increasing the heart rate and thereby cardiac work might be harmful to patients with angina pectoris or congestive heart failure. A direct test of the effects of marijuana smoking in exercise-induced angina proved this harmful effect of the drug. Smoking one cigarette containing 19 mg of THC decreased the exercise time until angina by 48%. Smoking a marijuana placebo cigarette decreased the exercise time until angina by only 9%. thus, smoking marijuana increased myocardial oxygen demand and decreased myocardial oxygen delivery [9]. A subsequent study compared the effect of this type of marijuana cigarette with that of a high nicotine cigarette. the marijuana cigarette decreased the exercise time by 50%; the nicotine cigarette decreased the exercise time to angina by 23% [10]. Clearly, smoking of any kind is bad for patients with angina, but the greater effect of cannabis in increasing heart rate makes this drug especially bad for such patients. Fortunately, few angina patients are devotees of cannabis.

A rapid heart rate might be expected to aggravate congestive heart failure. Actually, little is known about the direct effects of THC on myocardium. A single study using an isolated rat heart reported a negative inotropic effect from THC, i.e., weaker contractibility of muscle [115]. If so, the use of cannabis by patients in congestive heart failure could make matters even worse.

Premature ventricular contractions have been reported following marijuana smoking [91]. However, when subjects were continually monitored electrocardiographically while smoking cigarettes containing approximately 20 mg of THC, no increase in such premature beats was found [145]. Ventricular premature beats are rarely observed and do not seem to be of any great clinical importance.

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Originally posted by http://www.whitman.edu/biology/Stupr...sio.html#heart
Effects of Marijuana Smoking on the Heart

The primary effect of marijuana smoking on the heart is tachycardia (a brisk increase in rate), which can be accompanied by an increase in blood pressure. The stroke volume of a normal heart remains the same throughout exposure, so the net effect on the heart is an increase of work performed. These effects are similar to those induced by stress and are not deleterious to the workings of a normal, healthy heart.
People with ailments affecting the circulatory system, such as arteriosclerosis or propensity to heart failure, may have some complications when smoking marijuana. These difficulties would be similar to those induced by stress, which can vary in severity. More studies need to be done to assess the risks for people with heart and circulatory difficulties, but one very promising fact is that nowhere in medical history has anyone died from marijuana-induced heart failure.(citation)

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Originally posted by http://my.marijuana.com/print.php?sid=6650
Why such a demand? The high is a lot higher. Woodstock-era marijuana had a THC content, or potency, of 2 percent. The current crop coming in from Mexico runs an average of 6 percent. B.C. Bud&#39;s THC content can rise to 25 percent.

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*This is no doubt outdated and refers to average street grade.

<!--QuoteBegin-http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/remarkably_intelligent_article_i.htm@


Remarkably Intelligent Article In The Toronto Star
Looks Beyond Prohibitionist Propaganda About Marijuana Potency

From the Toronto Star
[email protected]

http://www.thestar.com/

June 27, 1998
By Thomas Walkom
B.C. STRIKES GOLD WITH POTENT CROPS

BRITISH Columbia marijuana is prized through-out the world because of its potency.
See A Very Interesting Article In The Toronto Sun Looks Calmly At The Huge Canadian Marijuana Business
and
Edmonton Superweed Reefer Madness Embarrasses Justice Minister;
Local Paper Opposes Even Medical Marijuana

Run-of-the-mill marijuana contains only 2 to 3 per cent tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the active mood-altering ingredient.

B.C. pot is stronger. Some hauls seized by the RCMP have contained as much as 15 per cent THC. Two years ago, marijuana from Surrey, B.C., won an intemational pot award, according to RCMP Constable Vince Arsenault.


[/quote] *This is sooooo old

<!--QuoteBegin-http://www.vanmag.com/0004/indoors.html
The move indoors has also led to better quality control for marijuana growers - which means dramatically increased firepower in the war against brain cells. The skanky ditchweed joints all those hippies thought they were getting "high" on in the &#39;60s were flatliners compared to the 15-percent THC mind bombs that pot connoisseurs light up today.

[/quote]* this is still three years old.


Bottom line is that most growers won&#39;t talk about the newest varieties or where they came from. Most of us know that UBC and pharmaceutical research played a part in it though.

As for the cardiac problems, if you haven&#39;t got the picture now, I doubt you ever will. I&#39;ve had the paddles once, yes in effect brought back ;) . I&#39;ve had my heart stopped for a moment and then restarted(which is like being rolled up like a tube of toothpaste from your toes up)due to not responding to normal treatments. And been treated with other extreme drugs to restore and regulate rythym.

If you still insist none of this is real, I sugest you carry on smoking. You&#39;re not funtioning correctly anyway.

OK... lets deal with those "facts" you supplied. The first one says that cannabis can interact with anti-depressants and raise your heart level. Wow.

You missed out some important parts of the 2nd source.

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Originally posted by http://mentor.fork.de/content.php?pid=309
Cannabis is the most popular illicit drug in the world and is usually smoked on its own or with tobacco. It has been associated with both harm and medical value. Due to the lack of long term research on the impact of regular, long term use it is difficult to assess the true impact of its use. As marijuana is not an approved medicine, there is little information about the consequences of its medical use in modern society (6). Some research has indicated its potential to address certain medical conditions such as multiple sclerosis, glaucoma, arthritis, AIDS-related conditions, cancers and pain control.

The use of cannabis has been associated with the development of schizophrenia and depression (7). The studies that back up these findings have not yet established whether the use of cannabis triggers the onset of schizophrenia or depression or whether it causes these conditions in non-predisposed people. Chronic daily users have reported higher levels of anxiety, fatigue and low motivation, and this seems especially applicable to teenage girls (8). Cannabis also has a higher percentage of tar than cigarette smoke and therefore increases the risk of lung damage.

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Sneaky&#33;&#33; Taking out all the bits which you dont like&#33;&#33; The rest is hardly ground breaking stuff. You can freak out and cannabis contains more tar. Wow.

DSM-IV just describes the effects of cannabis and puts far too much emphasis on what happens when you take huge amounts.

The next one.. Marijuana raises your heat rate and blood pressure.. wow.. so does alcohol&#33; You will notice they refrain from going as far as you have in saying people can die from it?

LOL The next quote you gave from http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/archive.shtml?2x1799 is based on an experiment with squirrel monkeys&#33;&#33; But again you dont mention that do you? Talk about deception...

The next one is the usual effects of having too much. Again... no-ones dying here. I could also point out that the effects of too much alcohol are far worse.

The next quote talks about Dronabinol which is "chemically synthesized THC" but again you dont want us to know that do you?

The next one says that people with heart disease shouldnt smoke cannabis. wow.. Isnt it true that people with heart disease shouldnt smoke.. period???

Again the next quote deals with

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"People with ailments affecting the circulatory system, such as arteriosclerosis" but concludes that "one very promising fact is that nowhere in medical history has anyone died from marijuana-induced heart failure.(citation)"

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thanks at last you admit it :)

As for the 25% scare story I suggest you read that article and pay more attention. For example...

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KN newspapers are slobberingly reefer mad without professional help.

This is a nasty prohibitionist piece that many ill-informed (read:TV-watching, non-reading") Americans will read a gasp in horror. And thats the whole job of propaganda like this.

This is going to get worse and worse as the Bush Administration and Walters the Wondergeek escalate their "Project Marijuana" plan to rid the universe of this popular and useful plant.

Please resist the urge to smack the dayights out of people you hear repeating this trash: They are victims too"

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hehe, Ill resist the urge then ;)

I&#39;ve never seen such a disingenious piece of rubbish in my life.

Basically no ones died from it. EVER

And that claim of 1 gram = several ounces is rubbish. The article that claims its 25% is from a tabloid that didnt provide any references. They say woodstock era potency is 2% but no one ever tested that or proved that&#33; As the author of the site where the article is hosted says

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There is NO DATA on marijuana potency from tyhe 1960s. LAst time I looked it up, Woodstock was in the 1960&#39;s. Also, stabs at Woodstock more proof this is also a culture war

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You havent proved any of your crazy claims. You&#39;ve taken the bits of info you want, removed all the inconvenient parts and then put them forward as the gospel truth.

i.e propaganda

You can push these silly lies all you want but the millions of hash smokers all round the world are proving you wrong every day.

As I said...

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If you still insist none of this is real, I sugest you carry on smoking. You&#39;re not funtioning correctly anyway.

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All refferences were given, You just chose to use the bits you wanted&#33;

If tachycardia is not life threatening, if no one has ever died from it, then all the fuss of treating it can be dispensed with.
And I would have been just another statistic that you refuse to believe.

The links between tachycardia and marijuana are well documented. The same is Not true of alcohol.

Although I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll draw up some other parallel to minimise the deadly effects of your "recreational" drug, the fact that other vices cause other, different complications does not diminish the facts.

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Originally posted by balamm
All refferences were given, You just chose to use the bits you wanted&#33;

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lol. What a lie. I had to include the bits you left out, sometimes in the middle of a sentence, because it didnt fit it with your propaganda.

Look no ones died from it. You cant show me one statistic saying marijuana has killed anyone. Hell even your own sources say no one has died from it. Just give it a rest balamm your fighting a losing battle.

As for the tachycardia argument.. yet again your twisting it round. Look at this..

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/plant...nt/cannabis.htm

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Tachycardia will rarely exceed 140 or 150/min, but patients
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with previous cardiovascular impairment may be at risk of
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; acute cardiac failure

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This is exactly what all your other propaganda said. People who have heart problems are not likely to start smoking cannabis are they???

Basically a normal healthy person can smoke dope without worrying about any of this rubbish. You know it, I know it, millions of smokers round the world know it. It doesnt matter how you twist the facts around as even your own sources prove you wrong.

Like I said before balamm.. your fighting a losing battle because truth and fact are not on your side.

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Originally posted by balamm
The links between tachycardia and marijuana are well documented. The same is Not true of alcohol.

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More lies.

http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=308

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In some patients, tachycardia occurs as a side effect of certain medications. Some of these medications include, but are not limited to, epinephrine, ephedrine, aminophylline, atropine, and digoxin. Other times, tachycardia occurs with the use of coffee, tea, alcohol, chocolate, or cigarettes.

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http://www.medhelp.org/forums/cardio/messa...ges/30613a.html

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Hello,

I am 24 years old and I am not a heavy drinker and only drink maybe once every couple of months. Twice in the past year I have had six or seven drinks in a night (enough to be rather intoxicated) and have woken up around 5am to find my heart pounding and racing. There are no other symptoms other than the pounding and racing. Both times I have sat down and waited about 5-10 minutes and it went back to its normal rate (rather abruptly - it didn&#39;t slow down but all of a sudden kicked back into a normal rate). I am also prone to palpitations. I get them probably several times a day but I have been to a cardiologist twice and each time have had a stress test, 24 hour holter, an EKG and an ECG done. All tests came back normal and the palpitations were identified as "binine extra beats."

I am alright with the palpitations and have learned to live with them and have somewhat convinced myself that they are not going to hurt me. I am, however, a little worried about the rapid heart rate. Is the rapid heart rate potentially life threatening? Would you consider it dangerous for me to go out drinking once in a while considering that I may wake up with a rapid heart rate?

Thanks,

Angela

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer Posted By: CCF CARDIO MD JMF on Monday, September 20, 1999

Dear Angela,

I would recommend abstaining from alcohol if at all possible or having it in moderation. These are effects of alcohol on heart muscle and with long term use, alcohol can cause arrhythmias that do not resolve and a decrease in heart function.

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Tachycardia is not even a concern at that level. A course of beta blockers would deal with that.

Let&#39;s get real if you can focus for a moment.

A heart rate of 200-220+ beats per minute sustained over a period of four hours is very likely to end in cardiac arrest and likely death. A shorter period of time can cause permanent heart damage.
Tachycardia is seldom related to existing disease processes. It&#39;s a triggered response.
One of the triggers is adrenaline, A byproduct of fear, panic or extreme excitement. Another cause would be something that interferes with the natural transmision of electrical impulses to the heart.
What causes an undue release of adrenaline in an otherwise healthy individual?
What normal daily routine could cause that level of fear, panic, or extreme excitement in the absense of any threat? What natural event would so disrupt the electrochemical processes that control the heart, in the absense of any other physical cause?
Aside from some sort of psychosis or physical trauma, nothing. Nothing but the intake of your harmless recreational drug or some other equally disruptive substance.
Im sure if someone OD&#39;d on heroin or suffered such a life threatening physical reaction, someone would drop them in front of a hospital or call an ambulance. That is not the case when someone claims to be OD&#39;ing from marijuana.
The propaganda you and those like you spread has made it unlikely that someone suffering anything less than vomiting blood would be taken serious when they complain after smoking a joint.
"Paranoia" or "freaking out" you&#39;d call it.
"Just chill" or "walk it off".

Sound familiar? It does to me. I had to call my own ambulance on more than one occasion before I realised that the lies you&#39;re spreading would be the end of me.
How many people go through something like that?
Probably more than would ever admit it.

Smoking dope causes paranoia. Any argument there?
Do paranoid people who&#39;ve just smoked an illegal substance head straight off
to get medical assistance when they need it? Can they even comprehend that they need it?
Isn&#39;t it more likely to be treated with a brown paper bag and quietly forgotten?

There lies the problem with your statistics.

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Originally posted by balamm+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (balamm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A heart rate of 200-220+ beats per minute sustained over a period of four hours is very likely to end in cardiac arrest and likely death.[/b]

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Originally posted by http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/plant/cannabis.htm+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/plant/cannabis.htm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Tachycardia will rarely exceed 140 or 150/min, but patients
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with previous cardiovascular impairment may be at risk of
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; acute cardiac failure[/b]

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<_<

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Originally posted by http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/plant/cannabis.htm
Tolerance develops to
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; emotional changes, tachycardia, body temperature and

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; psychomotor tasks; tolerance of the cardiac effects may
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; develop in just a few days.

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:D


<!--QuoteBegin-balamm@
What causes an undue release of adrenaline in an otherwise healthy individual?
What normal daily routine could cause that level of fear, panic, or extreme excitement in the absense of any threat? What natural event would so disrupt the electrochemical processes that control the heart, in the absense of any other physical cause?
[/quote]

How about people like you spreading paraoid propaganda? Perhaps massive doses of cannabis as a first time use because its not legal, not regulated and no one knows what 1 dose should be? You also fail to mention that tachycardia can be caused by many other things. Stress at work, pregnancy, anxiety, alcohol, nicotine etc

Face facts. If what you were saying is true people would be dropping like flies. Its simply not happening.

<!--QuoteBegin-balamm
Isn&#39;t it more likely to be treated with a brown paper bag and quietly forgotten?

There lies the problem with your statistics[/quote]

Forgotten? Not if the person dies as you claim.

If people were dying from tachycardia brought on by cannabis Im sure the Gvt would love to put it in the drug death statistics. They&#39;re hardly likely to cover it up are they? You seem to be saying that tachycardia leading to death brought on by drugs is simply not included in the statistics. I find that extremely hard to believe.

If what you were saying is true there would be a mass epidemic of unexplained deaths among young people. This isnt happening either.

After 10+ years in the "field" I would have heard of it happening by now and I would certainly not be on here defending cannabis if that were the case.

What about clocker? 40 years &#39;active service&#39; (if memory serves) and even he hasnt heard of this happening.

After reading you carefully pruned sources and hysterics I sense some sort of hidden agenda here. Whatever the case your propaganda does not fit in with the personal experience of millions of smokers worldwide, current medical knowledge or Gvt statistics.

How come your not campaigning as vigorously about alcohol related deaths? They&#39;re in the thousands (not including long term usage deaths) and they&#39;re not a figment of anyones imagination, yet you remain quite silent on that issue.

Just for the record I have freaked out after far too much marijuana and it is nothing like you describe. (220 bpm over 4 hours&#33; :lol: )

I gave up on trying to reform chronic alcoholics with their never ending excuses and twisted logic.




As I now give up on you and your addiction. ;)

Just keep it away from my kids and we won&#39;t have any problems.