This Is Too Good....

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Originally posted by Busyman+2 July 2004 - 22:34--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 July 2004 - 22:34)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

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Originally posted by j2k4@2 July 2004 - 23:20
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman

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@2 July 2004 - 21:45
Cyclosarin is much worse.

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Just so-

Still doesn&#39;t satisfy the quibbling about WMD, especially considering it&#39;s ostensible origins, and is only mention-worthy insofar as the shells are worth long green on the terrorist "after-market".

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Well will ya please tell Hank that?&#33;&#33;? :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
Busyman why not quote the post in its entirety? J2 asked and I am also interested what are your thoughts on the part you left out?

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@2 July 2004 - 17:14
The Taliban rule in Afghanistan is over. The majority of the fighters have either been killed or left the country.

They are still active in small pockets but the numbers aren’t great.

I like how you look at things Clocker. We defeat an army of fighters and kill the majority of them and the thing that you focus on is the handfuls that are left. We have to go cave by cave to find the rest of them but we are going to get the rest of them.

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The Taliban are not a political party or an army. They were essentially farmers who took up arms at the behest of clerics to drive out the infidels and communists (Russians and the Northern Alliance).

We have reinstalled the Northern Alliance - an interesting collection of individuals (some good, some very very bad).

The farmers are still there and so are most of the 1000 or so Taliban clerics - some moderates some hardliners.

This is a complex situation and peace in Afghanistan will only happen if the moderate clerics support the new government. If they do not then there will be considerable problems for the Kabul government and the Southern 60% of the country will continue to be a no go area. Drug Lords like Dostrum continue to rule in parts of the North and herion production has soared.

There is a huge amount of work still to be done in Afghanistan and I don&#39;t think we should have become distracted by Iraq.

We have indeed chosen a difficult mix to "multi-task"; I have fingers crossed that time will sort the on-going chaos in Afghanistan-we are all very well-equipped to second-guess right now, but I am willing to lean to a historical perspective which tells me that none of this happens according to any convenient time-frame, and such expectations are wildly out-of-sync with our military capability, further aggravating our "new" sensibilities.

If this state of flux exists for even a few more years before a successful resolution, will it have been worth it?

I think so.

Post WWII Japan and Germany are the only sound examples in recent (well, semi-recent) memory.

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Originally posted by j2k4@3 July 2004 - 20:24
We have indeed chosen a difficult mix to "multi-task"; I have fingers crossed that time will sort the on-going chaos in Afghanistan-we are all very well-equipped to second-guess right now, but I am willing to lean to a historical perspective which tells me that none of this happens according to any convenient time-frame, and such expectations are wildly out-of-sync with our military capability, further aggravating our "new" sensibilities.

If this state of flux exists for even a few more years before a successful resolution, will it have been worth it?

I think so.

Post WWII Japan and Germany are the only sound examples in recent (well, semi-recent) memory.

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Japan and Germany are outstanding examples of what can be achieved. However, if one were to compare the political determination and effort after WW2 with Afghanistan then one can see why there might be a shortfall. Having said that Iraq will almost certainly get post WW2 levels of investment and attention - to fail to do so would be to unravel the whole of the ME.

I fear Afghanistan is seen as too weird and remote to capture the popular imagination.

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Originally posted by Biggles@4 July 2004 - 09:04
I fear Afghanistan is seen as too weird and remote to capture the popular imagination.

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At the very least, the government(s) are also flummoxed by the atypicallity of the situation; our efforts to make sense of the situation suffer accordingly.