Like "eggplant", what kind of tit would do that.
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Like "eggplant", what kind of tit would do that.
One that has never seen an egg I suspect :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Theo is a marter, he died because he defended the freedom of speech and that did cost him his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
You refer to 'there was a letter' as if that was his way to express freedom of speech. Wich is right. The guy went wrong by taking away Theo his right of freedom of speech by killing him.
The last part i stated what i believe. Dialogue stopped, violence took it's place. Most of the time to stop some one saying what you don't like to hear.
Which is (and always has been) my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by jetje
If it is true the vast majority of Muslims do not believe Islam sanctions such violence, where are they hiding?
"Official" Islam (CAIR, et. al.) are mysteriously silent...
How are they hiding? I regularly hear ordinary Muslims condemning terrorist tactics on the news.
CAIR have this linked to on their front page.
The voices may not be as loud as you would like (though some would argue that has a lot to do with lack of media attention), but to call them hiding or silent is unfair.
If I were an ordinary Muslim, I would like to see a SINGLE demonstration espousing the message of peace, which is the literal translation of the word "Islam".Quote:
The publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad continued to send shock waves around the world Friday as protesters set fire to the Italian consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and clashed with police hours after an Islamic cleric in Pakistan offered a $1 million reward for killing one of the cartoonists
If you believe that you are bound for eternal paradise because of your faith in Islam, shouldn't that be enough?
I am not Christian, but they are taught to love their enemies. When someone speaks against God, they feel sorrow that that person has wandered from the path of salvation.
They don't want to kill him, but rather to love him and help to return him to God.
How many were killed in America because of the "artistic" exhibit of Christ in urine and the Virgin Mary depicted with elephant shit?
If someone defames your prophet through a cartoon, shouldn't your response be, like the Christian one, sadness for a person who has lost touch with God.
You should want to counsel him, to instruct him, to heal him, NOT behead him.
Anger, to me, reflects fear that any alternative perspective will undermine the faith of a programmed society and weaken the control a fundamentalist government has over it's citizens.
This is not about God, but about humans and control.
Ordinary Muslims should be screaming pity and forgiveness. I see none of this.
As I have said before, when words (Islam=peace) are not followed by action, they are just meaningless symbols on a piece of paper.
Oh, and the Danish government has zero responsibility to offer an apology because they are a tolerant nation that allows freedom of speech and the press.
Tell that to this woman :OQuote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
Nah, I get what you're saying, but I have a couple of Muslim friends and if you told them they should be "screaming pity and forgiveness" they'd tell you to piss off. That may not please you but not every Muslim feels responsible for what happened in New York, London Madrid etc.
What a splendidly awful woman. I do believe I would swerve to hit her (provided I was driving a vehicle capable of mowing down her massive bulk).Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillian
what a freak :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillian
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
Good points, well made.
There was a peaceful protest in London. Which expressed it's dislike of the cartoons, but also said that the violent reaction was totally wrong.
I like that sentence very muchly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
Congratulations.
Good for them. It is a shame that this side of the story gets underplayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
I think it is perfectly reasonable to be angry with the cartoons, and people should have the right to express this anger via peaceful protest. These protests are good things that sort of educate citizens about sensitivities that they might not otherwise have been aware of.
I guess what I am objecting to most is the lack of utter disavowal of these miscreants and their actions by their religious brethren.
The most your average Muslim seems compelled to say is he/she doesn't "agree" with the violence or those who perpetrate it.
Historically such sociological pustules are shunned and isolated unto immateriality and eventual non-existence.
The reaction to the cartoons is incomprehensible to the average citizen of the West.
The peaceful demonstration today was far more restrained and sensible but it is difficult to determine what they hope to achieve. I don't think people in the West ever really thought that this would be an issue on this scale. Those that dislike Muslims (or least the radical brand that gets most air-time) are going to be mass producing Prophet cartoons from here in.
At the end of the day, I have no problem treating other religions with respect but rather than doing a Foamy the Squirrel about Danish cartoonists would they not do better to search their own souls regarding why Islam is held in such disregard? There is a feeling, perhaps fuelled by the media, that Bin Laden and chums are actually held in some esteem and that many (not all) Muslims cheerlead from the sidelines when an attrocity is carried out.
I think it will be some time before the scars on both sides heal over this and that Islam will be regarded with suspicion in the West for a long time.
I have seen the scary woman clip before - it is one of SGGs favourites. A truly strange woman. I felt sorry for the kids who looked genuinely disturbed by their mother's rant. Religion/Superstition - is it all one?
No, no it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
No it isn't but some appear to be unaware of this.
It just depends what one believes in I suppose. However the thing which really confuses me is how different groups of the same religion can have such differing views on it's teaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
One group seems to say it's OK, in fact obligatory, to kill those who insult their Prophet. Another preaches that non-violent protest is the way to go. So people who are confused by this tend to see the side which wants to kill them as being representative. That's human nature I s'pose.
That is an awesome, awesome clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
It got even better 'cos I'd played around with my sound settings before I saw that, thus giving the sound of it a more metallic, ominous feel.
At first I forgot I'd done that, so I reckoned that was intentional.
Midway-through I was laughing.
She says she'll pray for them tho', doesn't she? :unsure:
has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillian
All Christians are like that, why single her out :unsure: ;)
No, no they aren'tQuote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Which version? Although the media is not blameless I don't think it was a figment of my imagination that it was religion that motivated the WTC attack, the Madrid bombings and the London subway bombings - not to mention Bali, Beslan and Moscow, the beheading of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia and numerous other attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%
There seems to be a branch, at least, of Islam that is big on death. That is not to say that other religions have not had their death is healthy for you moments.
I don't like having Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door, mad ladies in the street trying to get me to say Guranga (sp?) or Mullahs saying death to those who disagree with us. It all seems a little too forced. It is as if it won't be true unless everybody thinks like they do.
I am sure there are Islamic philosphers with insights into the human condition who have much to offer. Those that merely want to stamp converted on all they see offer nothing that we haven't already got.
A line from a Gore Vidal book that I liked very much was a young Zarathustrian priest telling Buddha that he represented the one true God. Buddha replied laughing "but my dear boy we have one of those too ... come to think of it, several actually.
she was on trading spouses last week :O :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Skillian
Not from the inside, zed. But I have read about it, religion is a subject in our schools, see. I also had a bunch of muslim classmates, for three years. In fact, in that class they outnumbered the christians, and us others. They taught me some arabic, and the muslim declaration of faith, for fun, like. I s'pose I've repeated it enough times in public, for me to be a muslim, if they thought I'd been sincere.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%
From what I remember it's a benign religion in theory. Teaches peace, love, and maybe tolerance. That Mohammed chap seemed an ok dude.
Something that has always stuck with me tho', was when we were doing some presentation of Islam, in class, and I started telling people about a possible historical explanation as to why Islam frowns upon alcohol.
One theory is that he, when in the army en route to Mekka, had a problem with people in the army getting drunk, and that the prohibition of alcohol was implemented because of this.
This is just a theory, and I wasn't making any value-statements of any kind about its validity, it was just an aside.
Only one girl, who was normally rather nice to me (I think she kinda' liked me) and otherwise just a normal teenager who'd never struck me as particularily religious, started talking, raising her voice, proclaiming loudly that it was the word of God, AND NOTHING ELSE. 'twas as if the very thought that there might be a more down to earth explanation for it was an insult, or even a threat, to her personally.
And I've seen the same thing happen one more time, in class at uni, when discussing the "divine command"-theory. As the lecturer noted that the theory becomes invalid if there's no God, and that the theory might still be invalid if there is a God, if what's right and what's wrong is just something He or She has ordained, rather than universal truths.
When he told us this, without saying whether he thought there was a God, this muslim bloke in class had to explain the nature of God to him, twice, very loudly. It was if just the possiblity of our lecturer not believing in God, or the contemplation of the reasons behind God's words, was an insult, or again even a threat.
I don't reckon this is Mohammed's fault, or a flaw in the framework for the religion in itself, 'cos he wanted you to think. I just think that it has been abused from the inside in some parts of the world, to create a tradition of unquestioning belief, maybe even fanaticism, by people less pure of intention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
Hoi, Witch. Don't dis the Zarathustrians, I like them .... and the Buddahians as it happens.
hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?
italian spoke man says "Muslims" r welcome but they cant force thier culture on us(but they can do anything to us becuz we r migrated and minority population over there).
an italian minister wore a T-shirt with thoes cartoons on it on tv and asked Pope to declare a campaign against muslims(he got firied from goverment by PM).
just an update on the cartoon creator, SOAB is undergrounded(i guess Salman rushdie got a partner).
I can't deny that you have a point there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.
Fucked up, huh?
Unlike the sitcha ayshun in Denmark, they actually have a law....but you are familiar with that since it's probably a law in your country to quell freedom of speech regarding things like cartoons.
Europe isn't a country, it's a bunch of countries, all with their own different laws, you can't talk about europeans as if they are all the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
Or do you reckon you, as a muslim, should be held accountable for what the Talibans have done in the name of Islam, or maybe that you, as an arab, should be held accountable for what other arabs have done, or maybe that you, as someone living in the middle east, should get a bad rep 'cos of how Iraq treated people, under Saddam?
If I have to hazard a guess, I'd say you know fuck all about how people who are specifically muslims are treated in our country. (They have the same rights as the rest of us, btw, by law).
As for the holocaust bloke, I dunno' if he'd end up in prison just for talking that way here. But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they jews, arabs or who tf cares.
Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.
I think you need to realise that the world doesn't match your preconceptions, and, to tie in with what you started off saying, that no matter what the chaps who run the show right now where you live say, the rest of the world isn't out to get you.
Basically they follow not so different constitution, thats why its called "union" .Quote:
Europe isn't a country, it's a bunch of countries, all with their own different laws, you can't talk about Europeans as if they are all the same.
what the feck Taliban did, one or two clips that u saw of killing people was not more then a sentence by "SHARIAA", its done in all Islamic country even in Saudi Arabia. Its matter of East and West Thingy, the way works here and over there. one of clips that u may saw was shooting a women well that’s a couple cheating issue, wife and husband cheatings issues are a normal issue for you cuz its used regularly and no law prohibits it but in Shariaa we have strict rule over that.Quote:
do you reckon you, as a Muslim, should be held accountable for what the Taliban’s have done in the name of Islam
Did u see the holocaust by ur self?, how can u be so sure? As you said that media doesn’t represent the actual events so don’t trust what Hollywood’s says.Quote:
Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.
personally I think its all BS, its all to drive out the Jews Out, and to show that they don’t hate them they brought up these craps, I say if u apartheid them why don’t keep them there instead of droving them out to Middle East(what Uk did).
How the feck doubting in something is hurting others feeling, u name that "hurting the feelings" but those cartoons which is direct arrow pointed at us is freedom of speech?Quote:
But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they Jews, Arabs or who tf cares.
its similar to US Creating Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), when they nuked Hiroshima in fear of being attacked the same way and being blamed they made NPT so they can drive away those blames and be on the peace track, now European made the holocaust rule to prevent the blames of them self’s and draw a good picture of them self by ignoring that they had hands in thoes holocaust's(which isnt existed in my opinion).Quote:
I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.
So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.
Fucked up, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
Well, now you're just talking complete crap.
But I would defend your right to talk crap against anyone who would try and take that right away from you. :)
Am I reading that mess right. Is Bawa denying the Holocaust?
:idunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
:glag:Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
The EU, or European union is a trade union, and we don't have a common or similar constitution, what idiot told you that?
FFS, Bawa.
We all have our own, sometimes very different, separate laws.
We don't all speak the same language either, I hope you know that, at least
I saw Talibans blowing up buddhist statues, I saw Bin Laden and other Talibans claiming responsibility for planning terrorist attacks, I saw people being interviewed after the Talibans had been driven off, and they didn't seem very unhappy.Quote:
what the feck Taliban did, one or two clips that u saw of killing people was not more then a sentence by "SHARIAA", its done in all Islamic country even in Saudi Arabia. Its matter of East and West Thingy, the way works here and over there. one of clips that u may saw was shooting a women well that’s a couple cheating issue, wife and husband cheatings issues are a normal issue for you cuz its used regularly and no law prohibits it but in Shariaa we have strict rule over that.Quote:
do you reckon you, as a Muslim, should be held accountable for what the Taliban’s have done in the name of Islam
I've seen Auswitch, I've seen where the showers were, and were the massgraves were situated. I've seen recordings of witness-statements from both germans, civilians and soldiers and non-jewish soldiers on the allied side. I've seen pictures from the camps, and heard the stories of survivors, I even saw one hold a speech, when I was very little. Saw the tattoo and all.Quote:
Did u see the holocaust by ur self?, how can u be so sure? As you said that media doesn’t represent the actual events so don’t trust what Hollywood’s says.Quote:
Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.
I daresay it would have been a logistically impossible operation, to make the holocaust as it were, up, and manage to fool everybody at the same time.
Personally, I think you are growing more unpleasant with every post you make.Quote:
personally I think its all BS, its all to drive out the Jews Out, and to show that they don’t hate them they brought up these craps, I say if u apartheid them why don’t keep them there instead of droving them out to Middle East(what Uk did).
Neither myself, nor any member of my family, nor my nation had anything to do with the creation of the state of Israel, and it's my understandning that those people who went there, went there willingly, even eagerly. Which at least in part had to do with their religion.
Furthermore, there are plenty of jews all throughout the western world, here too, whose families never left for Israel, and who most certainly were never driven out, and who, again, has the rights that everyone else does, in my country.
If he stands up and says it never happened, that is certainly him metaphorically spitting every survivor in the face, and a denial of the fact that they suffered.Quote:
How the feck doubting in something is hurting others feeling, u name that "hurting the feelings" but those cartoons which is direct arrow pointed at us is freedom of speech?Quote:
But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they Jews, Arabs or who tf cares.
The cartoons on the other hand, were by all accounts not intended to hurt the average muslim on the street. And, it would be a muslim bloke's right to draw the same sort of cartoons about jesus, if he felt like it, in Denmark.
And how the fook can you equate some cartoons in a newspaper critical of a religion, if that was indeed what they were, with denying something that by all accounts resulted in the death of millions?
15000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk.
:lol: :O :ph34r:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
the cartoon riots even spread to Nigeria!!! :O:O:O
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story...&IssueID=28339
it says in the artical that they've changed from anti-western to anti-christian.
and the christians are fighting back, by burning mosques.
I couldn't help reading one of the articles on the site, which said a japanese preist raped 20 girls, and said if they refused, they'd go to hell :mellow: I think I'm gonna start a topic soon, on how some preists do this.
I found this on redflagdeals.com, its arabs who hate jews, alot.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/683165.html
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3...84kwjpg6tk.gif
On another hypocritical note...
On 60 Minutes, the editor of the Denmark paper that put out the Muhammed cartoons had previously NOT put out a satirical cartoon about Jesus 'cause it would come off as offensive.
:dry:
Watching a clip now.
First impression:
^They obviously haven't been in Denmark.Quote:
the towns are squeaky clean
Sauce
I dunno' how right he is, but it's an interesting comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random danish bloke
Secondly, what would the intent have been for publishing the christian caricatures (if they were christian at all)? I dunno' what the idea was behind those, and they definitely could have published them, according to danish law. They seem to have had some sort of idea what they wanted to do with the mohammed-cartoons, I didn't get any information about what the christian satires were intended for, if the intent was to publish them for a similar purpose it was silly to publish one and leave out the other for sure.
The editor declared responsible has shown christian caricatures after the cartoon-crisis anyhow.
Oh, and if I heard him right the reporter-person says that the editors decided to not publish the cartoons, it may not be the Flemming-bloke who's responsible for leaving one out and including the other. I dunno' if the staff was the same on both occasions, and I dunno' if one of the others is a deeply religious christian, or somesuch, who veto'ed the christian ones for personal reasons, or whatever else was the reason for it.
It's a bit sketchy.